EPTHyuN owed $23,000 in back pay and prize money by Quantic -…
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GunPaladin
United States1205 Posts
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fruity.
England1711 Posts
On January 03 2014 15:43 Sokrates wrote: It is esports and not a regular job. A different environment if you will and it is not easy to go elsewhere with the same conditions. So you hold on to a nice contract where you get promiseda nice salary. I mean what is the other option? Check out and then have no team for a while and if you find one will they pay you enough? I think the tipping point here is the pricemoney, his pricemoney. Not just the salary. I think if it would just be the salary he would have taken even more time. A player of hyun's calibre I feel would find another team quickly. Also for example, I personally would rather get say 50 quid a week than be promised 200 quid, yet receive nothing. Hyun has been wronged (again, only going on what he's said, and without hearing the other sides version) But although he shouldn't have to take blame for what's happened at least he should see that at best he's been naive. Now having said that another factor to come into things is no doubt the language barrier involved. Four things I hope come out of this debacle, firstly that hyun gets what's owed to him. Secondly that if Simon has indeed screwed him over, he ends up in a jail and drops the soap whilst in the shower. Thirdly that all those involved in eSports learn from this. And lastly (like a few others have said previously in this thread) That some sort of player union is implemented to help resolve this sort of shit. Step up the Artosis', Day9's, TotalBiscuits, Apollo's etc etc, maybe if you put your heads together something positive can come from this. | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
On January 03 2014 17:39 fruity. wrote: A player of hyun's calibre I feel would find another team quickly. Also for example, I personally would rather get say 50 quid a week than be promised 200 quid, yet receive nothing. Hyun has been wronged (again, only going on what he's said, and without hearing the other sides version) But although he shouldn't have to take blame for what's happened at least he should see that at best he's been naive. Now having said that another factor to come into things is no doubt the language barrier involved. Four things I hope come out of this debacle, firstly that hyun gets what's owed to him. Secondly that if Simon has indeed screwed him over, he ends up in a jail and drops the soap whilst in the shower. Thirdly that all those involved in eSports learn from this. And lastly (like a few others have said previously in this thread) That some sort of player union is implemented to help resolve this sort of shit. Step up the Artosis', Day9's, TotalBiscuits, Apollo's etc etc, maybe if you put your heads together something positive can come from this. The problem is that it will be very hard to pursue Simon since he is in another country and lawyers are expensive, unless its a TL fan taking the case pro bono. Even if Simon gets convicted, Hyun probably wont even see his money because you cant really force someone to pay if they dont have the money. There is a very low chance Hyun will see/ get any of his money back and most of the people Simon owe probably wont get anything either. If by chance they are lucky and get paid, it probably wont be in full. While this is a sad situation, people in esport should learn from this. If the deal they promised is very good, make sure it's not a lie. | ||
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Usus
United Kingdom26 Posts
I think the wage might be a average foreign teams on perhaps less if accommodation is accounted for. The next step is just to make sure all your contracts are watertight and that you're not signing on to a team with a young and inexperienced manager. | ||
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Doublehelix_
Germany26 Posts
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fruity.
England1711 Posts
Sadly I feel you are right - and as others have said the international aspect just complicates things further. Over here in the UK when someone pays for their car insurance, their insurer (by law) Pays a percentage of the premium into a fund which is then used to compensate people who are involved in hit-and-runs or the victims of those who weren't insured. Might be a pipe dream to have such a system in esports, but if the players and those involved aren't willing to take steps to at least try and make sure this sort of stuff doesn't happen, then who will? A player union might not be achievable - first thought to come to mind would be who would pay for it? And the legal aspect to somehow try to tie in rules and regulations across borders sounds like a nightmare to me. But something I do feel could happen would be a CODE OF CONDUCT that reputable teams and organisations could clearly state that they adhere too, and proudly display on their sites. If blizzard, kespa, dreamhack, iem, mlg put their weight behind it, then it would mean something... Potential sponsor; Oh your not a member of the esports code of conduct - we wont sponsor your team. Sure it's not great - and no doubt wouldn't stop these sad tales, but it may help. Such a code could give examples of, or even specify the clauses that must at least be in the players contracts - perhaps for owners of the teams to be eligible they must have a registered business address, registered for local tax or vat, and so on. Something along the lines of the GNU public license for free software, but for players, so they know if they join XYZ, the contract they sign isn't designed to screw them over, or have a million get out clauses, give maximum time frames for wages or winnings, and so on. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18445 Posts
On January 03 2014 15:43 Sokrates wrote: It is esports and not a regular job. A different environment if you will and it is not easy to go elsewhere with the same conditions. So you hold on to a nice contract where you get promiseda nice salary. I mean what is the other option? Check out and then have no team for a while and if you find one will they pay you enough? I think the tipping point here is the pricemoney, his pricemoney. Not just the salary. I think if it would just be the salary he would have taken even more time. salary is salary regardless of what kind of job the problem with the Korean pros is that most of them gave up school and their environment/family (where you learn things for life) to become full time pros. I am sure Hyun didn't see it as such a big deal at first. Mentality and experience wise they are CHILDREN, thats why people like Simon can abuse them | ||
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Elurie
4716 Posts
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Serinox
Germany5224 Posts
On January 03 2014 19:36 Doublehelix_ wrote: So how much he made yesterday? We're asking since the stream, on reddit and on twitter. It's pretty odd starting a fundraising and don't tell how much you made. He made a bit over 7k http://twtkr.olleh.com/view.php?long_id=L1g75u ![[image loading]](http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/831534674.jpg?1388754555) | ||
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BrieFanFiction
United States167 Posts
On January 03 2014 22:20 Serinox wrote: He made a bit over 7k http://twtkr.olleh.com/view.php?long_id=L1g75u I'm glad that we've empowered HyuN to collect what he's owed. Pro-social behavior always makes me a happy camper. | ||
NovemberstOrm
Canada16217 Posts
On January 03 2014 22:20 Serinox wrote: He made a bit over 7k http://twtkr.olleh.com/view.php?long_id=L1g75u that's pretty cool glad to see him make some of his money back that he lost, good on the community for putting in the effort to support Hyun after what happened to him. | ||
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YourGoodFriend
United States2197 Posts
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ES_JohnClark
United States1121 Posts
On January 03 2014 05:13 Oakenshield wrote: What a cult this guy has going. Either you are still being paid or you're unfit to work for any company. If you really believe that being young is a reason to accidentally bankrupt a company and not run it properly even before the theft finally becomes public (like not booking flights you promise people you booked a week ago) then everyone should hope to be young for a while longer, and hire someone like you so they can steal from them and then immediately be forgiven of wrong doing. If you are an adult like you say you are you know that stealing tens of thousands of dollars from people who may have needed it gravely is nothing you can morally or legally just walk away from because you don't feel like you owe anyone the things you stole from them. Luckily the community will not be as forgiving of theft as you and I would wager a guess that this guy has to work under the table cleaning bathrooms at a restaurant in some small town village off the radar once his current cash grab runs out. I am a bit more forgiving then most.. yes, but at no point do I suggest that we just let this slide. My suggestion is that we not just hate on the person, but rather that we look for ways to keep these things from happening. I am not being paid.. nor have I for several months now. I am blessed to have a wife that still works. Age does matter here to a point. I believe that Simon made some mistakes that snowballed into the mess we see today. I do not believe he intended to scam anyone. This really is a matter of his inexperience in managing things that has lead to this mess. It is very sad what has happened to all of the players and those who were supposed to be paid and it certainly should be fixed. In fact, I am working to speak with Hyun and, together, go about the proper process to retrieve the funds that are owed. I am simply suggesting that we keep our eye on the ball and not let the displeasure of the person distract us from coming up with real solutions to prevent this from happening again. | ||
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farvacola
United States18832 Posts
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
It sounds like Simon had all of that money and thought he could expand the Quantic brand maybe, and failed at his investment hard and just took off, complete speculation, but that sort of thing happens a lot with investment bankers who lose peoples money. | ||
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fruity.
England1711 Posts
On January 04 2014 00:58 Ctone23 wrote: Is this standard operating procedure for teams to disperse tournament winnings through the CEO to players? Does Team Liquid follow this same procedure? Seems to me that Hyun being 25 years old qualifies him to receive his own checks from Tournament organizers. If the team gets a cut out of Tournament winnings, couldn't the organizer of the event cut different checks? It sounds like Simon had all of that money and thought he could expand the Quantic brand maybe, and failed at his investment hard and just took off, complete speculation, but that sort of thing happens a lot with investment bankers who lose peoples money. According to other posts in this thread, it does seem normal for teams to get the winnings, which they then pass on. I don't know if this is standard in TL. | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
On January 04 2014 01:07 fruity. wrote: According to other posts in this thread, it does seem normal for teams to get the winnings, which they then pass on. I don't know if this is standard in TL. Makes sense, I was just wondering. I saw that this Simon guy is 23 years old, which explains a lot in itself. | ||
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Sokrates
738 Posts
On January 03 2014 17:39 fruity. wrote: A player of hyun's calibre I feel would find another team quickly. Also for example, I personally would rather get say 50 quid a week than be promised 200 quid, yet receive nothing. 1. He did recive some salary (like 5months out of 12). 2.So you would rather have 1/4 of your original salary but this is save? Sry but that doesnt make sense to me. And he did recive money. On January 03 2014 18:49 phodacbiet wrote: The problem is that it will be very hard to pursue Simon since he is in another country and lawyers are expensive, unless its a TL fan taking the case pro bono. Even if Simon gets convicted, Hyun probably wont even see his money because you cant really force someone to pay if they dont have the money. There is a very low chance Hyun will see/ get any of his money back and most of the people Simon owe probably wont get anything either. If by chance they are lucky and get paid, it probably wont be in full. While this is a sad situation, people in esport should learn from this. If the deal they promised is very good, make sure it's not a lie. People say that Simon has inherited a lot of money, so i guess you could get money out of him. Otherwise i would agree with you. On January 03 2014 19:49 sharkie wrote: salary is salary regardless of what kind of job the problem with the Korean pros is that most of them gave up school and their environment/family (where you learn things for life) to become full time pros. I am sure Hyun didn't see it as such a big deal at first. Mentality and experience wise they are CHILDREN, thats why people like Simon can abuse them Doesnt make sense sry, esports in GENERAL is shady business, nothing you can learn in school about that. Just because you finished school doesnt make esports a professional enovironment like regular business. It doesnt change the scene. You can only hope to get not fucked over, if you do esports professionally then you have to take risks. No matter what education you got, if you dont want to take risks dont be a progamer. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Only that he is old enough to be trusted with thousands of dollars (and he was, up till he disappeared.) Most 23 year olds in finance are trusted with manipulating large sums of money, they certainly don't go around running frauds or embezzling either. At least not anymore than their older peers. People have got to stop using age as an excuse for his actions. | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
On January 04 2014 01:37 Dangermousecatdog wrote: What is explained by that he is 23 years old? Only that he is old enough to be trusted with thousands of dollars (and he was, up till he disappeared.) Most 23 year olds in finance are trusted with manipulating large sums of money, they certainly don't go around running frauds or embezzling either. At least not anymore than their older peers. People have got to stop using age as an excuse for his actions. I didn't mean to make an excuse for what happened. Sure, some 23 year olds have a lot of responsibility, but the vast majority are still maturing, getting jobs, graduate school, etc. That amount of money hanging over a 23 year old makes the situation a bit more understandable for me, but yea it's not a good excuse, just trying to make sense of it all. | ||
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