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On January 02 2014 02:40 sd_andeh wrote:
What the HELL? Aren't there laws to protect people like this? This has to be some kind of a lawbreak. I just can't believe.... I hope it turns out good for Hyun, he's such a nice guy. If anyone can, please please help him T_T
There aren't laws because "esports" is a new field of entertainment. It's not as organized as professional sports. Most contracts are flimsy.
That's why Violet had to get an "Athlete's visa" and people made a big deal about it. They thought it was implying that Esports were a real sport, but really, it was just the fact that there is no such thing as a progamer's visa (as of right now).
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On January 02 2014 02:41 chris2423 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 02:37 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 02:23 Oakenshield wrote:On January 02 2014 02:18 AlternativeEgo wrote:
"Taking legal actions to assist Hyun". Does this mean they don't have or just won't give him the money while they sue the scumbag themselves, and they're just going to try and be involved in a lawsuit that will never go anywhere so they can say it's not their fault and isolate the guy who was able to rank up in their organization as a thief without ever being caught or monitored by other employees properly? Basically: -Simon took the money -Quantic is composed of mostly unpaid volunteers (these are the people who tweeted that) -They are looking to take "legal action" to help Hyun For all we know, "legal action" might just mean the opposite of "illegal action" lmao, not necessarily anything related to legal proceedings. There is no indication that Quantic will be starting a lawsuit for Hyun. Their tweet was just vague reassurance. The tweet is basically to deflect blame from the organization and onto simon. It means absolutely nothing.
Exactly. Please stop paying attention to a stupid tweet, people.
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Ok, at this point I'm genuinely intrigued by Canada's legal system. Here, in a less civilized country, a case like this (once again, assuming all the info in this thread is correct) admittedly takes some time (too long), but >90% of the time ends up with the scammer having to pay what he owes + costs of the trial, and if he can't (like, literally can't, because the government then takes control of his possession), then he has to hand over up to 60% of his salary until the entire debt is paid. There is an initial fee of about 100$ to start the case, but when it's won, the victim gets a refund of that also.
Why is it such a big problem in Canada? Is it because the initial cost of the trial is absurd, or is it because there is no way to enforce payment even if the case is won?
+ Show Spoiler +Honestly curious, not trying to brag about my country's legal system because it's horrible in many ways and takes too damn long to resolve anything.
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If these types of posts were less frequent, then it wouldn't be as funny/sad everytime I see them... :\
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Seems pretty easy, and free, to get a consultation on this. That should be step 1.
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Fucking thief. This pisses me off badly, jesus christ
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What's Simon's B.Net account? We should get him demoted in HotS ladder so he thinks twice before he makes a fool out of the gamers
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On January 02 2014 02:26 Nerchio wrote:
So you want people completely unconnected with Hyun not being paid, pay with their own money?
How the hell did you come to that conclusion?
The fact that Simon started this mess is irrelevant, QUANTIC still owes Hyun money.
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On January 02 2014 02:42 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 02:40 sd_andeh wrote:
What the HELL? Aren't there laws to protect people like this? This has to be some kind of a lawbreak. I just can't believe.... I hope it turns out good for Hyun, he's such a nice guy. If anyone can, please please help him T_T There aren't laws because "esports" is a new field of entertainment. It's not as organized as professional sports. Most contracts are flimsy. That's why Violet had to get an "Athlete's visa" and people made a big deal about it. They thought it was implying that Esports were a real sport, but really, it was just the fact that there is no such thing as a progamer's visa (as of right now).
I don't know what country you hail from, but in the case of the countries involved, contract law is it's own code section mostly independent of the subject matter. Esports has very little to do with the contract and the consequences of it going unfulfilled, only the parties involved and the content of the contract are relevant.
And the half baked thought that seems to be floating around currently is apparently "The whole organization of Quantic is to blame." Apparently a lot of you are very far disconnected from the world when it comes to who actually gets to handle money, especially in volunteer/unpaid organizations. And also why a bunch of volunteer employees would ever help their CEO embezzle money in the first place...
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On January 02 2014 02:59 VeNoM HaZ Skill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 02:42 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 02:40 sd_andeh wrote:
What the HELL? Aren't there laws to protect people like this? This has to be some kind of a lawbreak. I just can't believe.... I hope it turns out good for Hyun, he's such a nice guy. If anyone can, please please help him T_T There aren't laws because "esports" is a new field of entertainment. It's not as organized as professional sports. Most contracts are flimsy. That's why Violet had to get an "Athlete's visa" and people made a big deal about it. They thought it was implying that Esports were a real sport, but really, it was just the fact that there is no such thing as a progamer's visa (as of right now). I don't know what country you hail from, but in the case of the countries involved, contract law is it's own code section mostly independent of the subject matter. Esports has very little to do with the contract and the consequences of it going unfulfilled, only the parties involved and the content of the contract are relevant.
Yes but the problem is most Esports contracts were written on toilet paper or McDonalds napkins. As I said, they are just flimsy, meaningless documents.
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On January 02 2014 02:59 VeNoM HaZ Skill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 02:42 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 02:40 sd_andeh wrote:
What the HELL? Aren't there laws to protect people like this? This has to be some kind of a lawbreak. I just can't believe.... I hope it turns out good for Hyun, he's such a nice guy. If anyone can, please please help him T_T There aren't laws because "esports" is a new field of entertainment. It's not as organized as professional sports. Most contracts are flimsy. That's why Violet had to get an "Athlete's visa" and people made a big deal about it. They thought it was implying that Esports were a real sport, but really, it was just the fact that there is no such thing as a progamer's visa (as of right now). I don't know what country you hail from, but in the case of the countries involved, contract law is it's own code section mostly independent of the subject matter. Esports has very little to do with the contract and the consequences of it going unfulfilled, only the parties involved and the content of the contract are relevant. And the half baked thought that seems to be floating around currently is apparently "The whole organization of Quantic is to blame." Apparently a lot of you are very far disconnected from the world when it comes to who actually gets to handle money, especially in volunteer/unpaid organizations. And also why a bunch of volunteer employees would ever help their CEO embezzle money in the first place...
it doesnt matter who is to blame, it matters who is legally responsible (which i honestly don't know since i dont know anything about international contracts), but i would assume, as i think most people are, the "quantic", and not simon, is responsible to pay the money, so hypothetically, if quantic was bankrupt with no money to pay, then simon could just walk away.
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On January 02 2014 03:09 chris2423 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 02:59 VeNoM HaZ Skill wrote:On January 02 2014 02:42 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 02:40 sd_andeh wrote:
What the HELL? Aren't there laws to protect people like this? This has to be some kind of a lawbreak. I just can't believe.... I hope it turns out good for Hyun, he's such a nice guy. If anyone can, please please help him T_T There aren't laws because "esports" is a new field of entertainment. It's not as organized as professional sports. Most contracts are flimsy. That's why Violet had to get an "Athlete's visa" and people made a big deal about it. They thought it was implying that Esports were a real sport, but really, it was just the fact that there is no such thing as a progamer's visa (as of right now). I don't know what country you hail from, but in the case of the countries involved, contract law is it's own code section mostly independent of the subject matter. Esports has very little to do with the contract and the consequences of it going unfulfilled, only the parties involved and the content of the contract are relevant. And the half baked thought that seems to be floating around currently is apparently "The whole organization of Quantic is to blame." Apparently a lot of you are very far disconnected from the world when it comes to who actually gets to handle money, especially in volunteer/unpaid organizations. And also why a bunch of volunteer employees would ever help their CEO embezzle money in the first place... it doesnt matter who is to blame, it matters who is legally responsible (which i honestly don't know since i dont know anything about international contracts), but i would assume, as i think most people are, the "quantic", and not simon, is responsible to pay the money, so hypothetically, if quantic was bankrupt with no money to pay, then simon could just walk away.
Quantic owes Hyun, however Quantic can easily make claim that Simon owes Quantic.
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On January 02 2014 03:11 B-rye88 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 03:09 chris2423 wrote:On January 02 2014 02:59 VeNoM HaZ Skill wrote:On January 02 2014 02:42 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 02:40 sd_andeh wrote:
What the HELL? Aren't there laws to protect people like this? This has to be some kind of a lawbreak. I just can't believe.... I hope it turns out good for Hyun, he's such a nice guy. If anyone can, please please help him T_T There aren't laws because "esports" is a new field of entertainment. It's not as organized as professional sports. Most contracts are flimsy. That's why Violet had to get an "Athlete's visa" and people made a big deal about it. They thought it was implying that Esports were a real sport, but really, it was just the fact that there is no such thing as a progamer's visa (as of right now). I don't know what country you hail from, but in the case of the countries involved, contract law is it's own code section mostly independent of the subject matter. Esports has very little to do with the contract and the consequences of it going unfulfilled, only the parties involved and the content of the contract are relevant. And the half baked thought that seems to be floating around currently is apparently "The whole organization of Quantic is to blame." Apparently a lot of you are very far disconnected from the world when it comes to who actually gets to handle money, especially in volunteer/unpaid organizations. And also why a bunch of volunteer employees would ever help their CEO embezzle money in the first place... it doesnt matter who is to blame, it matters who is legally responsible (which i honestly don't know since i dont know anything about international contracts), but i would assume, as i think most people are, the "quantic", and not simon, is responsible to pay the money, so hypothetically, if quantic was bankrupt with no money to pay, then simon could just walk away. Quantic owes Hyun, however Quantic can easily make claim that Simon owes Quantic.
not if simon owns quantic
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On January 02 2014 03:01 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 02:59 VeNoM HaZ Skill wrote:On January 02 2014 02:42 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 02:40 sd_andeh wrote:
What the HELL? Aren't there laws to protect people like this? This has to be some kind of a lawbreak. I just can't believe.... I hope it turns out good for Hyun, he's such a nice guy. If anyone can, please please help him T_T There aren't laws because "esports" is a new field of entertainment. It's not as organized as professional sports. Most contracts are flimsy. That's why Violet had to get an "Athlete's visa" and people made a big deal about it. They thought it was implying that Esports were a real sport, but really, it was just the fact that there is no such thing as a progamer's visa (as of right now). I don't know what country you hail from, but in the case of the countries involved, contract law is it's own code section mostly independent of the subject matter. Esports has very little to do with the contract and the consequences of it going unfulfilled, only the parties involved and the content of the contract are relevant. Yes but the problem is most Esports contracts were written on toilet paper or McDonalds napkins. As I said, they are just flimsy, meaningless documents.
As long as the basic needs for a contract are met (even if it is on a napkin), the contract is legally binding. Esports isn't that new, and in any case the subject matter would probably be salaries and division of winnings, which have been around forever. Unless you're arguing that Hyun signed a bum contract (which would be his fault), then I'm not sure where you are going.
The real problem with Esports is the financial stability and backing of organizations like Quantic, not the contracts. As to the ownership of the company and the terms of who is responsible for what in the contract, we have very little idea on this. Which is why there is little point in arguing over it.
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On January 01 2014 17:57 ZodaSoda wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2014 16:28 TotalBiscuit wrote:On January 01 2014 12:21 Undead1993 wrote:
ye you could feel in the last couple of tournaments that he was stressed out, poor guy. kind of sad how some foreign teams treat the clueless koreans, axiom obviously doesn't but. Axiom is not a foreign team Foreign owned, Foreign ran, Foreign paid...
This is the reason I come to Teamliquid, to have random forum posters inform me of what my team is and isn't.
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On January 02 2014 03:16 VeNoM HaZ Skill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 03:01 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 02:59 VeNoM HaZ Skill wrote:On January 02 2014 02:42 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 02:40 sd_andeh wrote:
What the HELL? Aren't there laws to protect people like this? This has to be some kind of a lawbreak. I just can't believe.... I hope it turns out good for Hyun, he's such a nice guy. If anyone can, please please help him T_T There aren't laws because "esports" is a new field of entertainment. It's not as organized as professional sports. Most contracts are flimsy. That's why Violet had to get an "Athlete's visa" and people made a big deal about it. They thought it was implying that Esports were a real sport, but really, it was just the fact that there is no such thing as a progamer's visa (as of right now). I don't know what country you hail from, but in the case of the countries involved, contract law is it's own code section mostly independent of the subject matter. Esports has very little to do with the contract and the consequences of it going unfulfilled, only the parties involved and the content of the contract are relevant. Yes but the problem is most Esports contracts were written on toilet paper or McDonalds napkins. As I said, they are just flimsy, meaningless documents. As long as the basic needs for a contract are met (even if it is on a napkin), the contract is legally binding. Esports isn't that new, and in any case the subject matter would probably be salaries and division of winnings, which have been around forever. Unless you're arguing that Hyun signed a bum contract (which would be his fault), then I'm not sure where you are going. The real problem with Esports is the financial stability and backing of organizations like Quantic, not the contracts. As to the ownership of the company and the terms of who is responsible for what in the contract, we have very little idea on this. Which is why there is little point in arguing over it.
The real problem with eSports is that many of the managers and owners don't actually know what they are doing.
Really sad for Hyun...
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On January 02 2014 03:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2014 17:57 ZodaSoda wrote:On January 01 2014 16:28 TotalBiscuit wrote:On January 01 2014 12:21 Undead1993 wrote:
ye you could feel in the last couple of tournaments that he was stressed out, poor guy. kind of sad how some foreign teams treat the clueless koreans, axiom obviously doesn't but. Axiom is not a foreign team Foreign owned, Foreign ran, Foreign paid... This is the reason I come to Teamliquid, to have random forum posters inform me of what my team is and isn't.
Please. We know that my opinion is the one that matters. Your team is imaginary and you run it with Monopoly money, which I have deduced from the the fact that both you and the Monopoly man wear top hats. You are also now a media conglomerate.
Boom.
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too many incompetent fuckers are allowed to run rampant in the scene and take complete advantage of the players because either the underlings are just as incompetent, or they're too blinded by #ESPORTS to realize they're part of the many problems every young 20 year old something has to endure while not gaining an education, experience or money (<--because of their incompetence!!!) . or worse they're just morally corrupt and don't actually care.
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I'm sorry HyuN.
Poor players that have to deal with this crap, it's not helping StarCraft at all.
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On January 02 2014 02:58 Thorgald wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 02:26 Nerchio wrote:
So you want people completely unconnected with Hyun not being paid, pay with their own money? How the hell did you come to that conclusion? The fact that Simon started this mess is irrelevant, QUANTIC still owes Hyun money.
Quantic is simon
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EPT
