Soul to disband

On December 20 2013 02:52 Nomzter wrote:

I didnt know they had any

sorry

On December 20 2013 02:52 Noocta wrote:
And GSTL is now 4 teams lol

On December 20 2013 02:58 TheDougler wrote:


Team epic?

On December 20 2013 02:54 MavivaM wrote:
Someone, please, pick up SSanaEE
Seriously.

On December 20 2013 03:01 Nyarly wrote:

Yes pls

On December 20 2013 03:05 Yakikorosu wrote:


Ya because who wouldn't want to pick up a player who had zero success in individual leagues in 2013 and went 0-8 in GSTL?

As for Team Epic, nothing has been announced about its roster.

On December 20 2013 03:16 mokumoku wrote:
esf really needs to merge with kespa.
no-one will watch the gtsl anymore, especially with that team line-up.

On December 20 2013 03:20 UmberBane wrote:


What would KeSPA gain from this? They already got IM, Prime and MVP. They would certainly benefit from Startale, AxA seems also very good, but I'm not so sure about the rest. Also I don't think they'd be willing to put on a ProLeague with 13 (?) teams.

On December 20 2013 03:34 Aeromi wrote:

GSTL, Pro League, ATC.

On December 20 2013 03:33 HeyImFinn wrote:
I didn't follow Brood War too much. But were there multiple team leagues going on then as well?

On December 20 2013 03:30 Bagration wrote:


Prime isn't strong enough for PL. Now I would happily like to be proven wrong, but let's face it, Prime is going to be farmed for wins and map differential by the other teams. Axiom-Acer, Startale, and Azubu would all be much more competitive than Prime is. An integrated teamleague in Korea would be nice

On December 20 2013 02:49 Nomzter wrote:
Liquid'Hyvaa pls

On December 20 2013 03:10 DiMano wrote:
What about Last he was doing well and then had some troubles with wrists and then he returned and now disbandment...

On December 20 2013 03:09 Zealously wrote:

And both diskanded for reasons unrelated to SC2.

On December 20 2013 03:36 Zealously wrote:


There were no major team leagues in Korea besides Proleague as far as I can remember.

On December 20 2013 03:47 opterown wrote:
I wonder what this means for esf now

On December 20 2013 03:59 Bagration wrote:


eSF is largely irrelevant. All that is left is Startale, Azubu and fOu. It's essentially powerless, and Azubu and fOu do not seem to be in great financial shape.

It's kind of like Lord of the Flies, where the boys are split into two camps. Ralph's group slowly gets smaller and the members of his group are picked off or assimilated into Jack's group. Now Ralph's group is eSF, and Jack's group is Kespa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_the_Flies

On December 20 2013 02:50 Jer99 wrote:


Because liquid needs another zerg

On December 20 2013 03:58 hypercube wrote:


They were successful teams with history, fanbase and an existing infrastructure. The fact that noone wanted to pick them up as a whole speaks volumes.

On December 20 2013 04:23 Zealously wrote:


For Woongjin Stars and STX SouL (probably two of the less popular KeSPA teams) to work in the way they previously did, they would have required a corporate sponsorship or an unusually large sum of money from some kind of minor sponsor. The teams have Brood War history but very little to speak of in Starcraft II. Had SC2 Proleague been a 10-year old thing and two teams had disbanded without someone sweeping in to pick up the pieces, I would have been surprised. But when two teams with large corporate (Korean) sponsors disband after recently switching to a new game, due to the sponsor's own financial issues, it's not very strange that no one wants to keep the team together. Snatching only the good players is both cheaper and more profitable.

On December 20 2013 03:33 HeyImFinn wrote:
I didn't follow Brood War too much. But were there multiple team leagues going on then as well?

On December 20 2013 04:23 Zealously wrote:


For Woongjin Stars and STX SouL (probably two of the less popular KeSPA teams) to work in the way they previously did, they would have required a corporate sponsorship or an unusually large sum of money from some kind of minor sponsor. The teams have Brood War history but very little to speak of in Starcraft II. Had SC2 Proleague been a 10-year old thing and two teams had disbanded without someone sweeping in to pick up the pieces, I would have been surprised. But when two teams with large corporate (Korean) sponsors disband after recently switching to a new game, due to the sponsor's own financial issues, it's not very strange that no one wants to keep the team together. Snatching only the good players is both cheaper and more profitable.

On December 20 2013 04:35 Xiphos wrote:


It means that sponsors have no faith in the scene.

On December 20 2013 04:35 Xiphos wrote:


It means that sponsors have no faith in the scene.

On December 20 2013 04:38 Fusilero wrote:

Jin Air had faith tho.

On December 20 2013 04:43 UmberBane wrote:


Maybe too much faith...
+ Show Spoiler +

On December 20 2013 04:23 Zealously wrote:


For Woongjin Stars and STX SouL (probably two of the less popular KeSPA teams) to work in the way they previously did, they would have required a corporate sponsorship or an unusually large sum of money from some kind of minor sponsor. The teams have Brood War history but very little to speak of in Starcraft II. Had SC2 Proleague been a 10-year old thing and two teams had disbanded without someone sweeping in to pick up the pieces, I would have been surprised. But when two teams with large corporate (Korean) sponsors disband after recently switching to a new game, due to the sponsor's own financial issues, it's not very strange that no one wants to keep the team together. Snatching only the good players is both cheaper and more profitable.

On December 20 2013 04:38 Fusilero wrote:

Jin Air had faith tho.

On December 20 2013 04:44 Bagration wrote:


The model and entire infrastructure is changing. Before you had a teamhouse in Korea and could fill it up with both A-teamers and B-teamers / practice partners. Korea was the scene, and everything eSports was largely in Korea. You had large teams, and many players who would never see the light of a televised match. You didn't have to fly players all around the world, and the cost of adding another player was minimal.

Now the scene is global. There are tournaments that are located on the opposite sides of the planet, and travel costs are suddenly very very significant. Many teams are getting leaner rosters, and there has been many more individual tournaments and less emphasis on team leagues.

On December 20 2013 04:52 FakePseudo wrote:
Acer'Hyvaaaaaaaa plz.
He and Bly would be the one-two cheesy punch.

On December 20 2013 04:51 DiMano wrote:
compare to SC2 where the team need at least 3 player of every race to get a perfect training enviroment.

On December 20 2013 02:54 NovaMB wrote:

5 teams
AxA, StarTale, foU, Claufzubu and Team Epic

On December 20 2013 05:11 Zealously wrote:


But only by the might of StarTale

On December 20 2013 05:14 Paragleiber wrote:


Claufzubu?

On December 20 2013 05:17 AlternativeEgo wrote:


Azubu shell company Clauf™

On December 20 2013 05:20 Paragleiber wrote:


Any link with further information? I did read about Clauf on a German website (weird that there is nothing on TL about it) but that didn't say anything about it being related to Azubu in any way.

On December 20 2013 04:55 UmberBane wrote:


Meh, I disagree with that. If you're talking about optimal practice environment then you should also compare it to the optimal Korean LoL practice environment, or else you're being unfair towards SC2.
You definitely need two teams with at least 5 members each. Then many teams have practice partners for drills and lane matchups living with them who are not on any of the starting rosters. In conclusion you get a bare minimum of 10 people and easily up to 15 (in some extreme cases more obviously) or so to be able to be competitive as a team in Korea.

For example CJ has 14 players just on their rosters, not including practice partners. (who can be seen like the League version of b-teamers I suppose).

On December 20 2013 05:25 Caladan wrote:
Well that was to be expected after STX dropout and now Dear transfer.
Still sad.
Bye Soul!

More and more progaming teams from the golden Broodwar age find their end in SC2 as Koreans' interest in SC2 declined. Not much is left from the old progaming scene.

Let's hope the best for the foreign team scene that they may stand strong.

On December 20 2013 04:23 Zealously wrote:


For Woongjin Stars and STX SouL (probably two of the less popular KeSPA teams) to work in the way they previously did, they would have required a corporate sponsorship or an unusually large sum of money from some kind of minor sponsor. The teams have Brood War history but very little to speak of in Starcraft II. Had SC2 Proleague been a 10-year old thing and two teams had disbanded without someone sweeping in to pick up the pieces, I would have been surprised. But when two teams with large corporate (Korean) sponsors disband after recently switching to a new game, due to the sponsor's own financial issues, it's not very strange that no one wants to keep the team together. Snatching only the good players is both cheaper and more profitable.

On December 20 2013 05:48 opterown wrote:
kespa was struggling to find BW sponsors already, i don't see how this is that important for the BW vs. SC2 debate people seem to bring up.

On December 20 2013 02:54 MavivaM wrote:
Someone, please, pick up SSanaEE
Seriously.

On December 20 2013 06:49 Zealously wrote:


Do you know why STX SouL and Woongjin Stars disbanded?

On December 20 2013 07:07 Zealously wrote:


Sure there is a reason. Their main sponsors went bankrupt. It had very little to do with Starcraft, be it Brood War or Starcraft II. Corporate sponsors were rare in BW, make no mistake - Team 8, for all the popularity of their players, were unable to find a sponsor for a very long time despite the rich histories of their players. I agree that if SC2 had been in a much better spot in Korea, Stars and SouL may have been able to secure a new corporate sponsorship, but the fact is that the situation for many teams was tough back in Brood War as well (look at MBCGame closing and the teams that disbanded around '10 and '11, eventually leading to the foundation of Team 8). Given that KeSPA has always (until recently) been strictly Korean, it would be weird for foreign companies to sponsor a strictly Korean pro team, and there has never been an excess of major corporations interested in dumping money into eSports anywhere. With Proleague no longer as interesting for viewers as it once was, my personal conclusion is that what happened to Stars and SouL was largely due to the financial troubles of their sponsors, whereas the problem only got (slightly) worse due to differing conditions in SC2.

On December 20 2013 06:56 plgElwood wrote:
no STX no Soul T_T.

On December 20 2013 07:23 BigFan wrote:

While I agree with this, just wanted to expand on the MBCGame part from what I've read in the BW forums. It was in one of the Savior threads that popped up a couple of weeks back. As it goes: the closing wasn't due to lack of popularity. From what I read, the director or whoever was at the head at the time had some personal venda against MBCGame(or esports) so he made endeavors that didn't generate much for MBCGame and he knew that would be the case. He used this to claim that MBCGame wasn't doing well despite the fact that they were generating decent revenue and shut it down to make it a music station for Kpop. True that kpop was getting really popular but if MBCGame was earning them money compared to other projects they had at the time, why not replace those other ones? btw, this is what I remember reading from the thread. I could have completely messed that up so I'll leave it at that lol

On December 20 2013 10:57 isaachukfan wrote:
Guys, weather sc2 is dying or not is irrelevant to the closure of Woonjin and STX, the only reason these got shut down is that STX and Woongjin both went bankrupt, all of their sponsorships have closed down as have the companies. While I don't doubt the sc2 scene is not what i once was, especially in korea, that has nothing to do with this

Also, Hyvaa to Prime pls...

On December 20 2013 09:30 DwD wrote:
So sad I miss seeing the Red Sniper Hwasin play... I wonder what he is up to these days anyway

On December 20 2013 12:57 Arceus wrote:
Come to think of it guys. If Najin pulls out of LoL, 200 corporations would surely line up to pick up Sword/Shield.

Will it happen to Stars/Soul? Would Jinair secure T8 if it's not for LoL and one starcraftmaniac daughter? Unlikely. Because of either (or both) reasons:

- Sc2 is an inferior game and/or LoL is a superior game, play-wise and spectating-wise
- Blizzard's marketing/strategy sucks.

The fact that the game/the company are having lots of issues has as much to do as sponsors going bankrupt. Who to blame when OGN seems to drop sc2 100%? Collapsed sponsors or Riot or Blizzard?

BW was facing the same issues back then? You are comparing 12 years old scene with one hell of a scandal against 3 years old one which should be at its prime.

Well Im talking almost strictly about Korea. But the scene going global? It's Koreans taking all the money vs 1 competitive foreigners. Asides of the timezone, it's not better than a healthy domestic individual/teamleague system for me. Korean scene is still the root of starcraft success and it's apparently shaking.

So maybe instead of denying the negativity, we should acknowledge it and urge Blizzard to make really drastic changes to LotV. Something other than adjusting movement 300 times or removing upgrade requirement.

On December 20 2013 12:57 Arceus wrote:
Come to think of it guys. If Najin pulls out of LoL, 200 corporations would surely line up to pick up Sword/Shield.

Will it happen to Stars/Soul? Would Jinair secure T8 if it's not for LoL and one starcraftmaniac daughter? Unlikely. Because of either (or both) reasons:

- Sc2 is an inferior game and/or LoL is a superior game, play-wise and spectating-wise
- Blizzard's marketing/strategy sucks.

The fact that the game/the company are having lots of issues has as much to do as sponsors going bankrupt. Who to blame when OGN seems to drop sc2 100%? Collapsed sponsors or Riot or Blizzard?

BW was facing the same issues back then? You are comparing 12 years old scene with one hell of a scandal against 3 years old one which should be at its prime.

Well Im talking almost strictly about Korea. But the scene going global? It's Koreans taking all the money vs 1 competitive foreigners. Asides of the timezone, it's not better than a healthy domestic individual/teamleague system for me. Korean scene is still the root of starcraft success and it's apparently shaking.

So maybe instead of denying the negativity, we should acknowledge it and urge Blizzard to make really drastic changes to LotV. Something other than adjusting movement 300 times or removing upgrade requirement.

On December 20 2013 13:38 dcemuser wrote:


Why do people always make it LoL vs SC2 and Riot vs Blizzard instead of MOBA vs RTS?

What if MOBAs are the future to esports, and nothing Blizzard could do could actually change this?

Your argument fails to address that question, and instead makes a lot of assumptions about a lot of things.

On December 20 2013 13:03 Kergy wrote:


but sword sucks :x

On December 20 2013 13:38 dcemuser wrote:


Why do people always make it LoL vs SC2 and Riot vs Blizzard instead of MOBA vs RTS?

What if MOBAs are the future to esports, and nothing Blizzard could do could actually change this?

Your argument fails to address that question, and instead makes a lot of assumptions about a lot of things.

On December 20 2013 13:52 Xiphos wrote:


More like social fun-times vs solo work.

The majority of BW players were NOT doing 1 vs 1 competition but simply BGH Free-fo-All, unlimited mineral map, and UMS games. They were casual players. SC2, while supposedly advertised as a more "casual" game ironically failed to capture the heart of the non-hardcore audience.

On December 20 2013 14:18 Cheren wrote:


Even if SC2 had Bnet 1.0 and all the same maps like BGH, fastest, and other UMS maps, it wouldn't be able to get people to play those over F2P mobas.

There's no point in releasing a pay to play RTS in 201x when MOBAs offer a free to play casual RTS experience.

On December 20 2013 02:47 Waxangel wrote:
Source: Daily Esports
Head Coach Kim Min Gi stated that the original goal of SouL was to give opportunities to players who were unable to find teams after STX dropped their sponsorship of STX SouL. Saying that all the SouL players had either been able to find new teams or decided to retire, Head Coach Kim declared SouL to have fulfilled its purpose.

On December 20 2013 14:00 for_the_swarm wrote:
MOBAs ARE the future of esports and blizzard is hopping on with their new game heros of the storm

On December 20 2013 02:55 geokilla wrote:
That was the goal of Soul? To help their players find teams? If so, then good guy Soul.

On December 20 2013 13:03 Kergy wrote:


but sword sucks :x

On December 20 2013 13:38 dcemuser wrote:


Why do people always make it LoL vs SC2 and Riot vs Blizzard instead of MOBA vs RTS?

What if MOBAs are the future to esports, and nothing Blizzard could do could actually change this?

Your argument fails to address that question, and instead makes a lot of assumptions about a lot of things.

On December 20 2013 16:44 pure.Wasted wrote:
Hearing LoL described as an RTS makes me sick. It's a strategy game like Diablo 3 is a strategy game, 'Which bosses should I farm for the best loot?! Which team would do best in the arena wearing what gear using what specs?!'

The degree to which that's not strategy is monolithic.

On December 20 2013 16:44 pure.Wasted wrote:
Hearing LoL described as an RTS makes me sick. It's a strategy game like Diablo 3 is a strategy game, 'Which bosses should I farm for the best loot?! Which team would do best in the arena wearing what gear using what specs?!'

The degree to which that's not strategy is monolithic.

On December 20 2013 17:54 pure.Wasted wrote:


Two people called LOL a strategy game on the last page. I didn't like it. But if this is a can of worms I'm accidentally opening, then I should quit while I'm ahead. Not trying to start a stupid argument.

On December 20 2013 18:21 pure.Wasted wrote:


LoL has strategy, just like Counterstrike has strategy, just like COD has strategy, just like any competitive game has strategy.

They aren't strategy games, however.

On December 20 2013 23:19 VArsovskiSC wrote:
Let's just say that the original DotA did the very base for LoL to become big.. At least some basis

On December 20 2013 23:22 Plansix wrote:
What does LoL and Dota have to do with companies going bankrupt? Why are they even being discussed? Or has the thread just gone to the whole "player retired, ded gaem! Thanks for nothing Blizztards" route?

On December 20 2013 23:22 Plansix wrote:
What does LoL and Dota have to do with companies going bankrupt? Why are they even being discussed? Or has the thread just gone to the whole "player retired, ded gaem! Thanks for nothing Blizztards" route?