At Red Bull Battle Grounds, we had a chance to talk to Blizzard CEO Mike Morhaime about WCS 2013, the plan for 2014, and StarCraft 2 esports in general.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
How do you rate WCS 2013? What did you like about about it, and what didn't you like so much?
I liked that it gave the scene some order. In 2012, a lot of things were happening, but it was hard to know the relative importance of everything. WCS '13 gave everything some structure, and it linked in tournaments like IEM and DreamHack in as well. I think there's an opportunity to improve upon all that in 2014 as well.
What didn't it do well? I think some of the criticism around region-locking was valid. The hand-off between OnGameNet and GomTV between WCS Korea seasons was a bit awkward, I don't think that really helped with preserving momentum.
Regarding those problems, obviously you guys wanted some Koreans to be in America and Europe, since it increases the level of competition and makes it more interesting to watch. But did you anticipate that they would move over so quickly, and in such large numbers?
We felt that having some number of Koreans in other regions would be good. One of the problems you had in 2012 was that most of the best players in the world were in Korea, but a lot of the viewers were outside of Korea. The time zones of the Korean matches made it so difficult, especially if you were in America, to follow what was going on in StarCraft. We wanted to expand the ability to view high level StarCraft to a global scale. We think 2013 actually did a very good job of doing that.
It's sort of a knob – how many Koreans do you want outside of Korea? We still look at GSL as where the top level of StarCraft play is. I think 2014 will be able to preserve the best of both sides.
How early on in 2013 were you thinking about the need for a partial region-lock?
We were talking to various stakeholders pretty much right after we announced WCS 2013. The trick is that you want to minimize the disruption to the players that are currently in the system. You have players who have moved to other regions, players who have made it into Premier League, and you really don't want to disenfranchise those players.
I think we came up with a pretty good compromise. It restricts the number of players that can enter through the qualifier, but it doesn't kick anybody out who has already earned their spot in Premier. And it also opens up the flexibility for players to move around between seasons.
In the interest of improving the level of ladder play on non-Korean servers, you've required the wild card players to have a certain number of wins on their account. A lot of people like that idea, but why didn't you expand that fully to the guys already in Premier, since they are generally the best players who would affect ladder quality the most?
I think so as well, but you don't want to get into a situation where you're facing kicking someone out of Premier because they didn't play enough ladder games. That's not good for anybody.
There will be a small number of spots for the qualifiers, but I think there will be enough competition for those spots that there will be more high level play on the regional ladders.
What was the intent of trying to integrate OSL/GSL so deeply into the WCS system? Why didn't it work out?
The intent was to get the entire Korean StarCraft ecosystem to be pushing in the same direction. I think it did do that, but it was a very choppy system, because you kept having the hand-off back and forth between seasons and we lost some continuity. I think 2014 will be a lot simpler, a lot easier to watch. Our partners in Korea will be focusing on the things that they do best, and the things that they want to focus on.
What did you guys think of having the WCS finals at BlizzCon? Would you have it at BlizzCon every year it's available?
Regarding the future, I don't want to make any WCS related statements related to other things we haven't announced yet – we haven't announced anything about BlizzCon in 2014 either.
But I don't think there's a better spot to have a finals. The crowd is amazing, and having the WCS finals there... it was just the perfect location.
How about the format at BlizzCon? StarCraft is a somewhat high-variance game by nature, and single elim tournaments can have wildly unpredictable results. The result this year came out of left field as well. Are you considering changing the WCS finals format so it better fits the entire unified storyline?
We do like the single elimination tournament, especially when we're able to seed it from the points that were earned over the course of an entire season. It's fairly common in other sports to use a single elimination format – we're pretty happy with it.
Do you think the entire unified storyline with a global champion at the end is necessary? Compared to say, a system like tennis or golf where you have several majors, but without a specific final tournament to crown the year end champion.
That's definitely another approach. But we definitely want to have a global ranking, and I think it adds to the tension and the storyline of StarCraft for it all to be accumulating, leading up to something that's sitting on top of everything else.
But is the global final system you have now effective at reaching that goal? sOs' story isn't exactly one that represented the entire year.
You have to admit, he played extremely well at BlizzCon. People may not have expected him to win it, but you walk away thinking he really earned that.
Bob Colayco (Blizzard PR Manager): You look at something like the NCAA college basketball tournament in America, where you have teams like Duke that are ranked number one all year. But then you have the single elimination championship tournament at the end, where Cinderella can get lucky one time... It's great drama, right?
Mike Morhaime: You have that in WCS also, you have the point system for the entire season, and then you have the bracket at the end. It's still a pretty big deal to end the year as the highest point earner.
What was the reasoning behind removing the individual Season Finals?
First of all, there was a scheduling problem that happened with the Season Finals because it put constraints on the entire schedule. Everything had to finish at a particular date before the Season Finals. By nature, everything felt rushed toward the end, since we basically had four major tournaments all back to back. It took a little bit of the prestige away from the regional tournaments, because the players got to celebrate for one week and then they were off to compete in another tournament.
We wanted to highlight the regional tournaments and give them more weight in the system, and we wanted to leave more room and space open for other major, international tournaments like DreamHack, IEM, and hopefully other tournaments that will spring up to fill that gap.
You've announced a proportion of WCS qualifier spots have been set aside for the non-America/Europe regions like China, SEA, etc. Is that all we have for those regions in WCS in 2014, or can we expect something more for them as the year goes along?
I think you should look at WCS as a work in progress. We're making changes, our intent is to continue to improve the system. As we make these changes, we're all going to become smarter and learn how the changes affect the system. We're willing to make additional changes if we think there's other ways to improve the system.
Considering that WCS is going to be a regular, annual thing, does that affect the Legacy of the Void release schedule, seeing that it would have a huge impact on the competitive scene?
We're not ready to say anything about LotV yet. But we understand the concern, and it's something we consider when releasing new content in StarCraft.
The Arcade will be free in patch 2.1, as well as the starter edition getting more features. It makes a lot of people wonder about the possibility of free-to-play multiplayer – is that something you guys are talking about? A lot of people in the industry will say that to stay competitive as premier esports game in this day and age, you have to go free-to-play, a model where someone can watch a tournament and immediately jump into ladder.
Well, StarCraft 2 multiplayer will be effectively free to play in custom games.
I don't think many people are going to go directly from watching the game and into the ladder. I think they may want to practice some games first. I think people can decide whether or not they like the game enough to purchase it by playing the free modes.
What would you say the benefit of doing esports is? Would you say it has a positive effect in terms of marketing? Or are there other things like pride, or just giving the community something for the sake of giving.
For us, I think it's about community building. I don't think there's any better way to share your passion and enjoyment with a community. Coming out to events like this or watching awesome matches online, I think that's where the StarCraft 2 community exists. And we can share our passion around that together.
So it's not necessarily a calculable dollars and cents kind of gain, it's a more intangible benefit?
It is intangible, but I do think that success in esports will help StarCraft have a very long life. I think it also creates an opportunity for people who are passionate about StarCraft to share their passion with their friends and show them how fun it is to watch the matches and play the game.
Any final comments?
Thanks for coming out, I appreciate the support TeamLiquid has given StarCraft 2 and StarCraft: Brood War. You guys do a fantastic job; I loved the write-ups leading up to the matches, all the profiles you did for the WCS Finals.
You know, you could do the Korean thing where you say "Please cheer for me, and I hope to show you exciting games," and you could actually mean it in the very literal sense.
Thanks for coming out, I appreciate the support TeamLiquid has given StarCraft 2 and StarCraft: Brood War. You guys do a fantastic job; I loved the write-ups leading up to the matches, all the profiles you did for the WCS Finals.
Mike Morhaime is confirmed as a TL fan !
It's a great interview, I really want to see the next WCS season.
Do you think the entire unified storyline with a global champion at the end is necessary? Compared to say, a system like tennis or golf where you have several majors, but without a specific final tournament to crown the year end champion.
Do you think the entire unified storyline with a global champion at the end is necessary? Compared to say, a system like tennis or golf where you have several majors, but without a specific final tournament to crown the year end champion.
I wonder if we'll be hearing any more about the team league they hinted at when they first released WCS 2014 details. I've honestly been really excited about that possibility.
But is the global final system you have now effective at reaching that goal? sOs' story isn't exactly one that represented the entire year.
> I do not agree that a yearly final can mirror all thats going on opver a whole year's season. Player's form do vary quite a lot over the months, like if a new kid can practice for 8 weeks then he can get to the top easily, given the understanding of the game. Other's playstyle that gave them wins gets figured out and counters are developed.
You could possibly mitigate this by awarding a very special price to the Top Number One of each region (by points) at the end of the year/season. Examples: a badge, a trophy, a three-of-a-kind custom made training clothes. IEM Nerdballer award shows that way.
Bob Colayco (Blizzard PR Manager): You look at something like the NCAA college basketball tournament in America, where you have teams like Duke that are ranked number one all year. But then you have the single elimination championship tournament at the end, where Cinderella can get lucky one time... It's great drama, right?
Just that nobody wants Cinderella to win, but rather one of the favorites so the community can have somebody who dominates. At least that's the feeling that I got from reading the forum.
Do you think the entire unified storyline with a global champion at the end is necessary? Compared to say, a system like tennis or golf where you have several majors, but without a specific final tournament to crown the year end champion.
ATP World Tour Finals ?!
Well, every single player would rather win a grand slam than the ATP World Tour Final.
Regarding those problems, obviously you guys wanted some Koreans to be in America and Europe, since it increases the level of competition and makes it more interesting to watch. But did you anticipate that they would move over so quickly, and in such large numbers? We felt that having some number of Koreans in other regions would be good. One of the problems you had in 2012 was that most of the best players in the world were in Korea, but a lot of the viewers were outside of Korea. The time zones of the Korean matches made it so difficult, especially if you were in America, to follow what was going on in StarCraft. We wanted to expand the ability to view high level StarCraft to a global scale. We think 2013 actually did a very good job of doing that.
It's sort of a knob – how many Koreans do you want outside of Korea? We still look at GSL as where the top level of StarCraft play is. I think 2014 will be able to preserve the best of both sides.
For me personally i find this kind of thing the complete opposite of what needs to be done. It might just be me but i want the best players playing in the best tournament. WCS Global finals is without doubt a top top level tournament, where the best of the world travel too. BUT GSL was the best of the best before all this and the best went to Korea to play and to see if they could achieve the success. That for me is the best thing to happen, it's like the equivalent of the Champions League in football. Every club (player) wants to be in the Champions League, it's where the money is and the most prestigious trophy. But if some company came in and started making competitions everywhere and started to nationalize Europe into North South East West you still start losing the prestigious tournament as its been divided up and people are jumping on easy money/easy fame/easy path to more money. What i think should of been the idea is to keep the region locks as REGION LOCKS and not allow koreans to play outside in the WCS event, however there is still DreamHack IEM ASUS ROGs and many other tournaments out there for everyone to get in, but i think GSL has suffered and the reason Korean SC2 is not as popular is due to the best players no longer play there all the time. It seems like all of KESPA stays inside Korea for WCS KR as they have too in a sense for Pro League and all the old SC2 original players (NesTea MVP) have all gone abroad along with foreigner teams Korean players. Really do think that is a hinderance and not a positive
Pretty sure people in NA would like a HuK vs Scarlett finals opposed to a Jaedong vs Taeja? or am i wrong in that too xD
Do you think the entire unified storyline with a global champion at the end is necessary? Compared to say, a system like tennis or golf where you have several majors, but without a specific final tournament to crown the year end champion.
ATP World Tour Finals ?!
I mean, TECHNICALLY
ROFL.
Yeah technically it's a thing but nobody really cares about it and it doesnt get nearly as much viewership.
On December 13 2013 01:59 Conti wrote: He didn't thank TeamLiquid for their support of Dota2 and LoL. That meanie.
He works for Blizzard!
Works? That man IS Blizzard. He together with 2 others founded Silicon & Synapse which later became the Blizzard as we know it. He is not just a CEO placed there for show.
Regarding those problems, obviously you guys wanted some Koreans to be in America and Europe, since it increases the level of competition and makes it more interesting to watch. But did you anticipate that they would move over so quickly, and in such large numbers? We felt that having some number of Koreans in other regions would be good. One of the problems you had in 2012 was that most of the best players in the world were in Korea, but a lot of the viewers were outside of Korea. The time zones of the Korean matches made it so difficult, especially if you were in America, to follow what was going on in StarCraft. We wanted to expand the ability to view high level StarCraft to a global scale. We think 2013 actually did a very good job of doing that.
It's sort of a knob – how many Koreans do you want outside of Korea? We still look at GSL as where the top level of StarCraft play is. I think 2014 will be able to preserve the best of both sides.
For me personally i find this kind of thing the complete opposite of what needs to be done. It might just be me but i want the best players playing in the best tournament. WCS Global finals is without doubt a top top level tournament, where the best of the world travel too. BUT GSL was the best of the best before all this and the best went to Korea to play and to see if they could achieve the success. That for me is the best thing to happen, it's like the equivalent of the Champions League in football. Every club (player) wants to be in the Champions League, it's where the money is and the most prestigious trophy. But if some company came in and started making competitions everywhere and started to nationalize Europe into North South East West you still start losing the prestigious tournament as its been divided up and people are jumping on easy money/easy fame/easy path to more money. What i think should of been the idea is to keep the region locks as REGION LOCKS and not allow koreans to play outside in the WCS event, however there is still DreamHack IEM ASUS ROGs and many other tournaments out there for everyone to get in, but i think GSL has suffered and the reason Korean SC2 is not as popular is due to the best players no longer play there all the time. It seems like all of KESPA stays inside Korea for WCS KR as they have too in a sense for Pro League and all the old SC2 original players (NesTea MVP) have all gone abroad along with foreigner teams Korean players. Really do think that is a hinderance and not a positive
Pretty sure people in NA would like a HuK vs Scarlett finals opposed to a Jaedong vs Taeja? or am i wrong in that too xD
Yes, many Koreans have left GSL, but think about the overall implications on the system with no Koreans in NA or EU. The skill progression of foreigner players would slow as they would never need to play Koreans in their own WCS bubble. In addition the global finals would be an extremely one sided affair with only a few top Koreans getting to go while much weaker foreigners comprise the rest of the bracket. The goal of the system is to maintain WCS KR as the most prestigious regional tournament (which it is especially when you consider that a WCS Korea player won every global finals ans blizzcon) and have the global finals and blizzcon be the most important events of the year in SC2. With complete region locking WCS KR becomes the true tournament to win and the global finals and Blizzcon are just formalities as we wait for whichever Korean to get a fat paycheck. That's just my opinion on the matter
On December 13 2013 02:40 TeeTS wrote: I truly believe that Mike Morhaime is a huge Starcraft Fan and that is one big reason, Blizzard still invests a lot into it. Hope this doesn´t change!
I was there at Red Bull. I was within an arms length from him when those last baneling land mines hit day 1. He's very much a huge starcraft fan, and you can see it in his excitement if nothing else. Seeing these guys so excited about the game they created shows me without a doubt that all the non-constructive flak blizzard gets is just so miss-directed. They care, they're trying, they're improving.
Kinda hard to not stop reading/caring after reading the bit about "would hate to have to kick out players for not playing enough ladder games." Yeah, players in premier league, who are full-time pros, would have such a hard time playing "x" games to guarantee 1K+ or w/e. I find innovations interviews far more heart warming.
Bob Colayco (Blizzard PR Manager): You look at something like the NCAA college basketball tournament in America, where you have teams like Duke that are ranked number one all year. But then you have the single elimination championship tournament at the end, where Cinderella can get lucky one time... It's great drama, right?
Just that nobody wants Cinderella to win, but rather one of the favorites so the community can have somebody who dominates. At least that's the feeling that I got from reading the forum.
Well people always want the better/best to win because they tend to have attractive playstyles. An analogy might be some third tier team winning the FA Cup (for soccer) in England. There's a lot of romanticism about the minnows making it to the big game but 9/10 the final sucks then because they get through on a lot of grit (think cheese) rather than skill (think style). And at least for some of the foreigners I'm invested in them. Manchester United has played like shit for the last 3 years (ignoring titles the actual play has been meh since the CL run) but I follow them because I've been invested emotionally in the team.
Regarding those problems, obviously you guys wanted some Koreans to be in America and Europe, since it increases the level of competition and makes it more interesting to watch. But did you anticipate that they would move over so quickly, and in such large numbers? We felt that having some number of Koreans in other regions would be good. One of the problems you had in 2012 was that most of the best players in the world were in Korea, but a lot of the viewers were outside of Korea. The time zones of the Korean matches made it so difficult, especially if you were in America, to follow what was going on in StarCraft. We wanted to expand the ability to view high level StarCraft to a global scale. We think 2013 actually did a very good job of doing that.
It's sort of a knob – how many Koreans do you want outside of Korea? We still look at GSL as where the top level of StarCraft play is. I think 2014 will be able to preserve the best of both sides.
For me personally i find this kind of thing the complete opposite of what needs to be done. It might just be me but i want the best players playing in the best tournament. WCS Global finals is without doubt a top top level tournament, where the best of the world travel too. BUT GSL was the best of the best before all this and the best went to Korea to play and to see if they could achieve the success. That for me is the best thing to happen, it's like the equivalent of the Champions League in football. Every club (player) wants to be in the Champions League, it's where the money is and the most prestigious trophy. But if some company came in and started making competitions everywhere and started to nationalize Europe into North South East West you still start losing the prestigious tournament as its been divided up and people are jumping on easy money/easy fame/easy path to more money. What i think should of been the idea is to keep the region locks as REGION LOCKS and not allow koreans to play outside in the WCS event, however there is still DreamHack IEM ASUS ROGs and many other tournaments out there for everyone to get in, but i think GSL has suffered and the reason Korean SC2 is not as popular is due to the best players no longer play there all the time. It seems like all of KESPA stays inside Korea for WCS KR as they have too in a sense for Pro League and all the old SC2 original players (NesTea MVP) have all gone abroad along with foreigner teams Korean players. Really do think that is a hinderance and not a positive
Pretty sure people in NA would like a HuK vs Scarlett finals opposed to a Jaedong vs Taeja? or am i wrong in that too xD
You're absolutely right. I really believe what also made the big events like Dreamhack and IEM that much bigger had a lot to do with seeing our favorite players (not specific to non-koreans this includes pro's such as Jaedong and HerO) clash with the Korean badasses and see where they rank up next to each other. Instead of a constant beat-down in the EU and AM scenes we saw some SERIOUS hyped up matches when the koreans came to play on foreign soil. I think what helps a lot with my perception of Korean pro's at least for me is seeing them on AM and EU based teams, however it takes a lot more than just adding them to your roster as EG proved with Revival, JYP, and Alive.
Likewise when someone like Naniwa or Huk would compete in GSL the stakes were insanely high as well. And for them to make it to the ro16 at such a brilliant level of play was a thing of awe in itself. I feel like there's literally none of that happening anymore and it's a real shame in my opinion. Some people will disagree with us and say that Jaedong vs Taeja would ultimately produce the best games but where I'm sitting the best games also involve the best storylines. And two Americans battling it out for the top spot on the podium for the America (region) is much more involved dramatically than two Koreans doing the same. That's also not to say that the level of play between Huk - Scarlett and Taeja - Jaedong is actually that much different. From what I've been watching over this past year Huk might not be at that level by a very thin margin, but Scarlett absolutely is.
-------- And then I read this response to the exact same post and I remember why the situation is much more complicated than how I described it.
On December 13 2013 03:53 Yorkie wrote:
Yes, many Koreans have left GSL, but think about the overall implications on the system with no Koreans in NA or EU. The skill progression of foreigner players would slow as they would never need to play Koreans in their own WCS bubble. In addition the global finals would be an extremely one sided affair with only a few top Koreans getting to go while much weaker foreigners comprise the rest of the bracket. The goal of the system is to maintain WCS KR as the most prestigious regional tournament (which it is especially when you consider that a WCS Korea player won every global finals ans blizzcon) and have the global finals and blizzcon be the most important events of the year in SC2. With complete region locking WCS KR becomes the true tournament to win and the global finals and Blizzcon are just formalities as we wait for whichever Korean to get a fat paycheck. That's just my opinion on the matter
I feel like taking this into account it becomes pretty evident that the steps Mike Morhaime and the WCS team are taking are clearly in the right direction. I feel as though a real contributing factor towards stepping back to the types of events I described earlier is definitely being able to see more events such as Red Bull Battlegrounds happening on this side of the hemisphere. Now that MLG is out of the picture I really hope Red Bull or someone similar will come in and deliver more than a few tournaments next year.
Seeing more tournaments like Total Biscuit's Shoutcraft America and EU are also definitely important. Hopefully we could see something similar hosted by Blizzard come into play in a live format. If they want growth on a global scale you need to nurture the global scene, that includes the players from different regions. Especially the ones in your own backyard. I think something that needs to be accepted into the hive mind is that if we want our baby e-sport to grow up to be a real sport one day we're going to need to see growth continue globally. To do that what I think needs to be accepted is that seeing the very top of the top-tier Koreans + a select few "foreigners" clash... while this may be the most entertaining for us hardcore dedicated fans.... it makes it difficult to recruit into our world of love for this game. For that to happen empathy is vital for people to connect and it isn't wrong to say that its considerably easier to empathize with those who speaks the same language as you.
On December 13 2013 04:47 Plansix wrote: Wow, Playa is salty. Had to really dig deep to find something to complain about in that interview, huh?
I just get tired of seeing the guy playing dumb. Maybe I'm naive or w/e, but I still like to see people give honest answers, else what's the point? A fill in the blank with a random answer generator is just as fulfilling as one of his interviews. I'm not a big fan, what can you say.
I like how he didn't actually answer teh question when TL asked if Blizzard "expected so many Koreans to move over so quickly" when they opened up the regions.
If he were awesome, he would have Real Talked it - "No, but we should have. The competitive level is so much higher in Korea that many left for the easier competition in NA or even EU. While we hoped that they would in turn increase the level of competition as a sort of minimum good scenario, we found out that we were completely wrong. They practiced in Korea, rampaged the online portions and committed to a week at most in NA/EU regions and more than paid for it with their winnings."
Do they really think that playing a certain amount of games on the NA ladder will hinder the Koreans who are competing in the Premiere league to continue competing in it? All they need to worry about would be how to get the blood of their NA ladder opponents out of their keyboard after a finished session...
Regarding those problems, obviously you guys wanted some Koreans to be in America and Europe, since it increases the level of competition and makes it more interesting to watch. But did you anticipate that they would move over so quickly, and in such large numbers? We felt that having some number of Koreans in other regions would be good. One of the problems you had in 2012 was that most of the best players in the world were in Korea, but a lot of the viewers were outside of Korea. The time zones of the Korean matches made it so difficult, especially if you were in America, to follow what was going on in StarCraft. We wanted to expand the ability to view high level StarCraft to a global scale. We think 2013 actually did a very good job of doing that.
It's sort of a knob – how many Koreans do you want outside of Korea? We still look at GSL as where the top level of StarCraft play is. I think 2014 will be able to preserve the best of both sides.
For me personally i find this kind of thing the complete opposite of what needs to be done. It might just be me but i want the best players playing in the best tournament. WCS Global finals is without doubt a top top level tournament, where the best of the world travel too. BUT GSL was the best of the best before all this and the best went to Korea to play and to see if they could achieve the success. That for me is the best thing to happen, it's like the equivalent of the Champions League in football. Every club (player) wants to be in the Champions League, it's where the money is and the most prestigious trophy. But if some company came in and started making competitions everywhere and started to nationalize Europe into North South East West you still start losing the prestigious tournament as its been divided up and people are jumping on easy money/easy fame/easy path to more money. What i think should of been the idea is to keep the region locks as REGION LOCKS and not allow koreans to play outside in the WCS event, however there is still DreamHack IEM ASUS ROGs and many other tournaments out there for everyone to get in, but i think GSL has suffered and the reason Korean SC2 is not as popular is due to the best players no longer play there all the time. It seems like all of KESPA stays inside Korea for WCS KR as they have too in a sense for Pro League and all the old SC2 original players (NesTea MVP) have all gone abroad along with foreigner teams Korean players. Really do think that is a hinderance and not a positive
Pretty sure people in NA would like a HuK vs Scarlett finals opposed to a Jaedong vs Taeja? or am i wrong in that too xD
You're absolutely right. I really believe what also made the big events like Dreamhack and IEM that much bigger had a lot to do with seeing our favorite players clash with the Korean badasses and see where they rank up next to each other. Instead of a constant beat-down in the EU and AM scenes we saw some SERIOUS hyped up matches when the koreans came to play on foreign soil.
Likewise when someone like Naniwa or Huk would compete in GSL the stakes were insanely high as well. And for them to make it to the ro16 at such a brilliant level of play was a thing of awe in itself. I feel like there's literally none of that happening anymore and it's a real shame in my opinion. Some people will disagree with us and say that Jaedong vs Taeja would ultimately produce the best games but where I'm sitting the best games also involve the best storylines. And two Americans battling it out for the top spot on the podium for the America (region) is much more involved dramatically than two Koreans doing the same. That's also not to say that the level of play between Huk - Scarlett and Taeja - Jaedong is actually that much different. From what I've been watching over this past year Huk might not be at that level by a very thin margin, but Scarlett absolutely is.
-------- And then I read this response to the exact same post and I remember why the situation is much more complicated than how I described it.
Yes, many Koreans have left GSL, but think about the overall implications on the system with no Koreans in NA or EU. The skill progression of foreigner players would slow as they would never need to play Koreans in their own WCS bubble. In addition the global finals would be an extremely one sided affair with only a few top Koreans getting to go while much weaker foreigners comprise the rest of the bracket. The goal of the system is to maintain WCS KR as the most prestigious regional tournament (which it is especially when you consider that a WCS Korea player won every global finals ans blizzcon) and have the global finals and blizzcon be the most important events of the year in SC2. With complete region locking WCS KR becomes the true tournament to win and the global finals and Blizzcon are just formalities as we wait for whichever Korean to get a fat paycheck. That's just my opinion on the matter
I feel like taking this into account it becomes pretty evident that the steps Mike Morhaime and the WCS team are taking are clearly in the right direction. I feel as though a real contributing factor to getting back to the types of events I described earlier is definitely getting to see more events such as Red Bull Battlegrounds happening. Now that MLG is out of the picture I really hope they come in and deliver more than 2 tournaments a year in the coming years.
As well as seeing more tournaments like Total Biscuit's Shoutcraft America and EU are definitely important. Hopefully we could see something similar hosted by Blizzard come into play in a live format. If they want growth on a global scale you need to nurture the global scene, that includes the players from different regions. Especially the ones in your own backyard.
Yeah pretty much this. It's what we call a catch 22 i guess. Guess we will never know what is best as we are forced into accepting this how it is.
On December 13 2013 05:29 JustPassingBy wrote: Do they really think that playing a certain amount of games on the NA ladder will hinder the Koreans who are competing in the Premiere league to continue competing in it? All they need to worry about would be how to get the blood of their NA ladder opponents out of their keyboard after a finished session...
The goal is not to lock the Koreans out. The goal is to improve the quality of the NA ladder as a training ground for progamers.
On December 13 2013 01:58 Darkhoarse wrote: Can't be mad at this guy, he says nice things about teamliquid.
I can just because you pucker up to kiss TL doesn't mean we forget about everything. I can see these guys still don't understand why their whole system sucks and why they should do a complete overhaul of it. Then again that isn't his job.
I don't agree with Morhaime's opinions, therefore his answers are dishonest. The fact that he doesn't agree with my objectively correct ideas on how to improve SC2 also annoys me.
Do you think the entire unified storyline with a global champion at the end is necessary? Compared to say, a system like tennis or golf where you have several majors, but without a specific final tournament to crown the year end champion.
ATP World Tour Finals ?!
I mean, TECHNICALLY
Well I don't see much difference, ATP World Tour doesn't crown THE best player of the year. It's just a tournament for top8 only and so is WCS World finals. Is sOs the player of the year ? Hell no, he "just" (no disrepect what so ever) won a big tournament.
Do you think the entire unified storyline with a global champion at the end is necessary? Compared to say, a system like tennis or golf where you have several majors, but without a specific final tournament to crown the year end champion.
ATP World Tour Finals ?!
Well, every single player would rather win a grand slam than the ATP World Tour Final.
Maybe it's just me but I value more a GSL title than Blizzcon.
On December 13 2013 01:52 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote: <h3>How about the format at BlizzCon? StarCraft is a somewhat high-variance game by nature, and single elim tournaments can have wildly unpredictable results. The result this year came out of left field as well. Are you considering changing the WCS finals format so it better fits the entire unified storyline?</h3>We do like the single elimination tournament, especially when we're able to seed it from the points that were earned over the course of an entire season. It's fairly common in other sports to use a single elimination format – we're pretty happy with it.
NOOOoooooo! Waxangel was correct when he said "StarCraft is a somewhat high-variance game by nature, and single elim tournaments can have wildly unpredictable results." Why didn't you listen to him?!
On December 13 2013 01:58 Darkhoarse wrote: Can't be mad at this guy, he says nice things about teamliquid.
I can just because you pucker up to kiss TL doesn't mean we forget about everything. I can see these guys still don't understand why their whole system sucks and why they should do a complete overhaul of it. Then again that isn't his job.
your expectations are too high. Blizzard's strength is in making video games. The farther they get away from this activity the weaker they are as a company.
they are mediocre at over-seeing and structuring competitive league systems. as a result, we got a mediocre WCS 2013. But, i'm happy with it.
i'm happy and totally satisfied with SC2 being great fun to play and with the WCS being "ok"/"mediocre"/"meh".
The 2010 Olympics did nothing to prove which country was the best hockey nation on earth. But, it was still hella fun to watch.. just like WCS.
On December 13 2013 05:29 JustPassingBy wrote: Do they really think that playing a certain amount of games on the NA ladder will hinder the Koreans who are competing in the Premiere league to continue competing in it? All they need to worry about would be how to get the blood of their NA ladder opponents out of their keyboard after a finished session...
The goal is not to lock the Koreans out. The goal is to improve the quality of the NA ladder as a training ground for progamers.
Are you... agreeing with me or disagreeing with me...?
Do you think the entire unified storyline with a global champion at the end is necessary? Compared to say, a system like tennis or golf where you have several majors, but without a specific final tournament to crown the year end champion.
ATP World Tour Finals ?!
I mean, TECHNICALLY
I don't it's fair comparison considering that the prestige (and because of that: money, significance etc) of Grand Slams in tennis are because these are very old and established tournaments while professional tennis is relatively recent change. If you want to look at how tennis would be organized from scratch by ATP - than there's Masters' series and ATP World Tour Finals on top. Exactly like WCS. The only Grand Slam-like events for SC2 could be probably WCG and OSL - the only events that were relevant before Starcraft became professional in Korea.
I actually met Mike and had a discussion with him at the after-party after Red Bull Battlegrounds in NYC.
He's a really cool guy and is quite passionate about the game. Seems like he's really trying to improve it. A lot of people simply assume that CEOs only care about money and have no interest in the games.. while it IS his job to care about money (he runs a business) I can assure you that is very far from the truth.
He's very close with members of the community (players, casters, etc.) and I think there are far worse people to have in charge (think Activision CEO Dick Fuckface).
You know, you could do the Korean thing where you say "Please cheer for me, and I hope to show you exciting games," and you could actually mean it in the very literal sense. That's true.
On December 13 2013 04:47 Plansix wrote: Wow, Playa is salty. Had to really dig deep to find something to complain about in that interview, huh?
I just get tired of seeing the guy playing dumb. Maybe I'm naive or w/e, but I still like to see people give honest answers, else what's the point? A fill in the blank with a random answer generator is just as fulfilling as one of his interviews. I'm not a big fan, what can you say.
You just can't read apparently, it had nothing to do with how hard or not hard for premiere league players to play on ladder or play a certain number of ladder games. But what he wants to avoid is the situation where one of the premiere league players doens't meet the requirements and then have to kick them out? Like he said, that's not good for anybody.
On December 13 2013 04:47 Plansix wrote: Wow, Playa is salty. Had to really dig deep to find something to complain about in that interview, huh?
I just get tired of seeing the guy playing dumb. Maybe I'm naive or w/e, but I still like to see people give honest answers, else what's the point? A fill in the blank with a random answer generator is just as fulfilling as one of his interviews. I'm not a big fan, what can you say.
You just can't read apparently, it had nothing to do with how hard or not hard for premiere league players to play on ladder or play a certain number of ladder games. But what he wants to avoid is the situation where one of the premiere league players doens't meet the requirements and then have to kick them out? Like he said, that's not good for anybody.
I think they should implement the ladder game minimums through fines rather than DQs, but I guess that's a different topic altogether.
All in all, I really like Mike Morhaime. With all the flak he gets, I'm surprised Blizzard's still in the "business" of fostering esports. Can things be better? Of course, but I really wish people would take a minute to think about those they're criticizing. Mike Morhaime is a genuine fan and by all accounts a really nice guy to boot.
I remember meeting Mike Morhaime at Blizzcon 2012. The guy is worth millions of dollars and he's just chilling in the Hilton lobby greeting all the fans in the post Blizzcon party. Mike's a stand up guy and means what he says. Great interview Wax!
On December 13 2013 16:11 sword_siege wrote: I remember meeting Mike Morhaime at Blizzcon 2012. The guy is worth millions of dollars and he's just chilling in the Hilton lobby greeting all the fans in the post Blizzcon party. Mike's a stand up guy and means what he says. Great interview Wax!
On December 13 2013 16:11 sword_siege wrote: I remember meeting Mike Morhaime at Blizzcon 2012. The guy is worth millions of dollars and he's just chilling in the Hilton lobby greeting all the fans in the post Blizzcon party. Mike's a stand up guy and means what he says. Great interview Wax!
however, he is not listed on the Forbes 400. so that net worth of 1.8 billion floating around is in dispute.
On December 13 2013 16:36 papaz wrote: Starcraft is probably Mike's favourite franchie. You can almost hear it in any of his interviews.
Different high level Blizz employees write the "forward" in the fiction books related to Warcraft and Starcraft. in a forward contained in a Starcraft fiction book Morhaime states that Starcraft is his favourite franchise. so there are no probablies about it.. its his favourite franchise.
and every RTS fan should thank the baby jesus that this is the case because without Starcraft the RTS genre is in big big trouble.
This guy is awesome. When he did the announcement at the start of Blizzcon, i almost thought he was going to cry. His passion for his company and the game is really much more than just dollars.
This guy is proud of what is done and love it. And he has every right too. Not sure if he really read TL or if someone prepared his interview but prepared interview are just normal. But i wouldn't be surprise if he prepared them himself.
They will get better and better with each error they do and we will have the perfect setup when time fly.
On December 13 2013 02:16 claybones wrote: I wonder if we'll be hearing any more about the team league they hinted at when they first released WCS 2014 details. I've honestly been really excited about that possibility.
I really hope Blizzard doesn't try to fully bring team leagues under WCS. If they want to take region winners and let them duke it out at the end of the year that is fine. Imo they should support the people that do team leagues already (or want to again like NASL?) but not take full control over them.
Still can't agree with the insistence on a "unified storyline" idea, Starcraft is not suitable for that. I'd much prefer there being many important independent tournaments but sadly I might be in a minority and definitely against what Blizzard wants.
I too think the Tennis model is better. I didn't walk out of Blizzcon finals thinking sOs was best player in world. And nor should i. It was just another tournament with another champion who was the better person on the day out of a select group of players. No different to any other event. Not to downplay Blizzcon, i love it, but i don't view that event as a legitimate world championship tournament above all the others in terms of determining the best player.
Do you think the entire unified storyline with a global champion at the end is necessary? Compared to say, a system like tennis or golf where you have several majors, but without a specific final tournament to crown the year end champion.
ATP World Tour Finals ?!
I mean, TECHNICALLY
TECHNICALLY it is the world finals of the year of tennis and consists of the highest ranked tennis players based on points. These points are drawn from 250, 500, 1000, and major tournaments. Extremely similar to the less extensive system of WCG (majors being regional WCS Premier finals, 1000 tournaments being tier one tournaments such as IEM and DreamHack, and 500 equivalents being tier two tournaments, and 250 tournaments being WCS Challenger tournaments).
Tennis and SC2 can't really be directly compared ofc, but I believe that they are pretty similar at least.
I think what you really meant was that the 4 majors in tennis are the most important tournaments of the year, and that even though there is an end of the year tournament with the top ranked players in the world, there is no "major" to represent that.
Although both crown a year end Champion of the top point holders, in SC2, WCS is considering that end of the year tournament as a "Major", whereas the ATP doesn't.
For some reason, SC2 just doesn't seem as exciting as it did during the first couple years after it came out. I really hope Blizzard can recapture some of that excitement! It would be great if the scene could keep more pro players...it's sad to see players retire.
EPT
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