As far as the United States government is concerned, eSports and traditional sports are equal.
Five months after American immigration officials first cleared professional video game players to apply for the same visas as traditional athletes, the first StarCraft 2 pro has finally obtained a P-1A visa. Kim “Violet” Dong Hwan, a 23-year-old South Korean professional StarCraft player, followed trailblazing League of Legends star Danny Le to become an internationally recognized athlete on Dec. 9.
Kim said he teared up over the phone when he was finally assured that he’d be allowed to live, compete, and earn a salary in the United States for at least the next five years. He called it a “life-changing” event. Kim's ultimate goal is to become an American citizen.
“It was do or die for [Kim],” said Andrew Tomlinson, whose Cyber Solutions Agency (CSA) represents Kim. “He either got the visa or entered the Korean military.”
The CSA published a triumphant press release just minutes ago.
Kim's professional gaming career has been in limbo since he took a triumphant silver medal at the North American StarLeague in December 2012. He was denied student visas to study English three times in 2013, causing him to forfeit three times in the World Championship Series, a $1.6 million competition that he repeatedly committed to, despite being unsure that he could actually compete.
Following the competitions, rumors swirled that Kim had overstayed previous visas. Tomlinson shot down those allegations. “We never broke any rules,” he said. “He wouldn’t have been granted the visa if he broke those rules. Those are serious violations.”
Despite winning nearly $100,000 in prizes and signing a contract with Azubu worth $50,000 in 2012, Kim faced slim pickings in tournaments in 2013.
so, it's possible to get a athlete visa, get to the us, become a citizen and eventually avoid the korean military? i guess a group of players would love this...
Grats to Violet! In the article, it seems MLG and gamespot/ongamers refused to help Violet with the visa application process, while others like NASL CEO, DJWheat and others helped.
That's great news, I always wondered what happened to Violet and why he wasn't participating in WCS. That's a sad story, really happy it turned out well for him.
On December 12 2013 02:26 lystier wrote: so, it's possible to get a athlete visa, get to the us, become a citizen and eventually avoid the korean military? i guess a group of players would love this...
Wow, what a dick move by MLG. I'm sure it would not have been difficult to write a damn letter or something, they could have helped a ton with the process.
On December 12 2013 02:26 lystier wrote: so, it's possible to get a athlete visa, get to the us, become a citizen and eventually avoid the korean military? i guess a group of players would love this...
“It was do or die for [Kim],” said Andrew Tomlinson, whose Cyber Solutions Agency (CSA) represents Kim. “He either got the visa or entered the Korean military.”
If taken literally this line is pretty morbid >_>
But big grats to Violet though. Was waiting for the day a SC2 pro got recognized!
On December 12 2013 03:12 Plansix wrote: Great for Violet and hopefully we will see him in WCS NA next year. Glad to see he could finally here on a more permeant basis.
yeah, and WCS AM is a lot easier to qualify for this year
On December 12 2013 02:26 lystier wrote: so, it's possible to get a athlete visa, get to the us, become a citizen and eventually avoid the korean military? i guess a group of players would love this...
On December 12 2013 03:08 csn_andrew wrote: Hi guys, if the op could add our official press release with violet's comments to the op would be much appreciated.
damn i forgot about violet. i thought this was kt violet. glad he got his visa and will return. i wonder how far he will go now that more koreans play foreign tournaments.
anyone got any idea what they used to prove violet was internationally recognized without the use of videos? also what kind of visas do the koreans on foreign teams have like jaedong? they don't seem to have visa problems or do they stay in korea and only go abroad when there's a tournament?
On December 12 2013 03:08 csn_andrew wrote: Hi guys, if the op could add our official press release with violet's comments to the op would be much appreciated.
On December 12 2013 03:18 Levistus wrote: damn i forgot about violet. i thought this was kt violet. glad he got his visa and will return. i wonder how far he will go now that more koreans play foreign tournaments.
anyone got any idea what they used to prove violet was internationally recognized without the use of videos? also what kind of visas do the koreans on foreign teams have like jaedong? they don't seem to have visa problems or do they stay in korea and only go abroad when there's a tournament?
thanks
Jaedong does not have a visa afaik, he stays in korea until he has a tournament.
On December 12 2013 03:18 Levistus wrote: damn i forgot about violet. i thought this was kt violet. glad he got his visa and will return. i wonder how far he will go now that more koreans play foreign tournaments.
anyone got any idea what they used to prove violet was internationally recognized without the use of videos? also what kind of visas do the koreans on foreign teams have like jaedong? they don't seem to have visa problems or do they stay in korea and only go abroad when there's a tournament?
thanks
I think B1 is the type of visa for a weekend tournament.
Woah so like Koreans can use the USA as a safe haven to get away from their military service? That seems sweet for the US's esports scene if this becomes more popular.
In addition to rounding up support within the industry, CSA had to put in hours of additional work. In letters to immigration officials, the agency had to provide an overview of Kim's four-year-long professional career, including translated Korean interviews and virtually every article ever written about him. The application added up to more than 500 pages in total.
On December 12 2013 03:08 csn_andrew wrote: Hi guys, if the op could add our official press release with violet's comments to the op would be much appreciated.
Lmao viOLet said: "I’m so super exciting about that..."
That's so viOLet, always saying "I'm exciting". Damn I love him.
Thank you Andrew for helping him so much!
You've got to admit that he is very exciting right now ^^ So will we just see him at WCS AM and other american tournaments or can he travel abroad to EU tournaments too?
On December 12 2013 02:57 Yorkie wrote: The fact that MLG couldn't take the time of day to help one of their former athletes in dire need is very disappointing to say the least
Yeah very disappointing, but not all that surprising. Players are just meat to MLG. If you don't attend their events they don't give a damn about you. Players are just a number to them and they'll forget about you once you walk out their event doors.
i think this will lead to huge influx of koreans going to compete in NA to take a shot at getting this athlete visa. Like at least half of code s moving there.
On December 12 2013 03:06 Juicy Orange wrote: SC2 leading e-sports! Hopefully other progamers follow!
Pro LoL players have been recognized as athletes by the US for some time, just sayin. That precedent might actually be the reasion why he got it.
It is 100% the reason why he got approved for a visa. Riot did a lot of the ground work and explaining competativd gaming to the USCS. Not to take away from his efforts, but I don't think it would have been possible without all the effort Riot put in.
On December 12 2013 03:08 csn_andrew wrote: Hi guys, if the op could add our official press release with violet's comments to the op would be much appreciated.
Lmao viOLet said: "I’m so super exciting about that..."
That's so viOLet, always saying "I'm exciting". Damn I love him.
Thank you Andrew for helping him so much!
You've got to admit that he is very exciting right now ^^ So will we just see him at WCS AM and other american tournaments or can he travel abroad to EU tournaments too?
He was trying to qualify for Dreamhack Winter anyways so it seems that he will be attending EU tournaments too. I don't really see why he wouldn't be allowed to travel to EU.
We're probably going to see viOLet a lot next year
On December 12 2013 02:52 The_Templar wrote: This is awesome news, are other AM players like Polt recognized as athletes too?
Polt is in the US on a student visa as he is studying at Texas A&M or something like that.
Polt is actually studying at the University of Texas at Austin, not A&M. That's actually a pretty big difference among us Texans, so don't go around mixing the two up if you're ever down here
Great news for Violet and for ESPORTS as a whole. Really excited to hopefully see way more of Violet in 2014 than we did in 2013. Great player, and a really admirable personality.
In addition to rounding up support within the industry, CSA had to put in hours of additional work. In letters to immigration officials, the agency had to provide an overview of Kim's four-year-long professional career, including translated Korean interviews and virtually every article ever written about him. The application added up to more than 500 pages in total.
that's pretty crazy o_o.... in a good way.
Seriously. HUGE props to everyone (probably mostly Andrew?) that slogged through all the red tape necessary to get Violet through the system. Really impressive that they made it happen.
One thing I don't get is why did violet drop off the face of the earth and not attend any euro tournaments? It seems he would have no trouble entering europe during this time.
"Not everyone CSA approached assisted in the process. Major League Gaming, the largest independent eSports league in North America, declined, saying they don’t endorse visa work that’s not directly related to their own events. (MLG no longer runs StarCraft 2 and Kim is not attending an MLG event in the near future.)"
This company has really started to let me down. I've been following their amazing work since 2004 and the good old Halo days, but with a lot of their recent moves it's clear they've lost any interest in building a real community or fans of the MLG brand. They didn't choose to assist him because he isn't directly related to their own events? I'm sure you would have said otherwise during the 2012 spring arena 2 which Violet won... and probably gave you many a viewer number for... :/
In any case, this is fantastic news for Violet. He's an amazing guy with an amazing personality. I hope he continues to play for a long time :D
On December 12 2013 02:52 The_Templar wrote: This is awesome news, are other AM players like Polt recognized as athletes too?
Polt is in the US on a student visa as he is studying at Texas A&M or something like that.
Polt is actually studying at the University of Texas at Austin, not A&M. That's actually a pretty big difference among us Texans, so don't go around mixing the two up if you're ever down here
Thank you someone actually knows what they're talking about! Polt would never go to some terrible school like Texas A&M, UT Austin is where it's at! Austin >>>>>>>>>>>>>> College Station like... not even close.
BUT anyways, I'm really happy for Violet and I'm glad SC2 pro's are officially recognized as athletes and can now compete and obtain visa's that they need, as well as esports pro's in general. Hopefully now the NA scene might see some players coming over for good to avoid the military service??
And as far as MLG goes and not helping out, that's really a douche move. I understand it's a business, but it really would've taken minimal effort to help out a little, and I'm glad they reported that they didn't help out and they get the bad press they deserve about this. It's not like sc2 and sc2 players didn't help MLG get to where they are now, the least they could do is help when one of their own is in need. If they're trying to be a reputable company in the esports scene, it might behoove them to step up in times like these instead of selfishly refusing when it's not directly associated with one of their events.
for all the hardwork and fans violet has, he definitely deserves to be recognized as the athlete that he already is.
wp violet, you earned it by not only practicing extensively in the game, but also not being afraid to communicate to an audience in a language you didn't understand and making it a commitment to improve on that.
if there's one success story that the SC2 scene can be proud of, it's the impact it's made on a virtually unknown korean zerg that made him a fan favorite.
On December 12 2013 04:31 RenZ wrote: so he dodged his military service permanently or just temporary?
I don't think he dodged it at all.
I think the comment was meant to say that if he didn't get a visa to go to the US, he would stop playing SC2 and instead do his military service.
He would potentially dodge his military service if he eventually became a US citizen, but I believe you have until age 30 to do your service, so if at the end of his 5 years he goes back to Korea aged 28, he would then do his service.
On December 12 2013 04:31 RenZ wrote: so he dodged his military service permanently or just temporary?
Likely temporarily. He's not becoming a US Citizen with this, just acquiring the rights to earn a living in the USA as an athlete. Who knows what, if any, rules and restrictions the South Korean government has involving something like this.
On December 12 2013 02:52 The_Templar wrote: This is awesome news, are other AM players like Polt recognized as athletes too?
Polt is in the US on a student visa as he is studying at Texas A&M or something like that.
Polt is actually studying at the University of Texas at Austin, not A&M. That's actually a pretty big difference among us Texans, so don't go around mixing the two up if you're ever down here
Yup, unless you're down for a fight. Too bad Polt decided to go to the second-rate school that is UT lol
On December 12 2013 04:45 seoul_kiM wrote: Aren't all Texas schools second rate kind of except for Rice?
U of T Austin has a great law program though.
Nice generalization. Yeah, here in Texas we ride horses to school (only attend school after herding cattle, number one priority) and our women chew tobacco.
On December 12 2013 04:45 seoul_kiM wrote: Aren't all Texas schools second rate kind of except for Rice?
U of T Austin has a great law program though.
Nice generalization. Yeah, here in Texas we ride horses to school (only attend school after herding cattle, number one priority) and our women chew tobacco.
Now hold on Skeeter, he ain't hurtin' nobody.
Seriously though, I think he's probably just a highschool kid who is looking at a list of "Top 25 Schools".
This is actually huge. Afaik it's already happened in LoL but seeing it happen in SC2 just reaffirms the fact that it is huge.
It gives validity to the notion that "professional e-sports athlete/player" is actually a profession. Big ups for the U.S. Government and all the people involved making this possible.
On December 12 2013 04:45 seoul_kiM wrote: Aren't all Texas schools second rate kind of except for Rice?
U of T Austin has a great law program though.
Nice generalization. Yeah, here in Texas we ride horses to school (only attend school after herding cattle, number one priority) and our women chew tobacco.
Now hold on Skeeter, he ain't hurtin' nobody.
Seriously though, I think he's probably just a highschool kid who is looking at a list of "Top 25 Schools".
Ya, those lists are BS, public schools like UT regularly get shafted on the rankings.
I went to a public school and our rival is a private school who's shot up the rankings like 10, 20 places every year and finally tied us. Does anyone really believe a school can 'improve' that quickly? Not me, they basically gamed all the monetary rankings (alumni fundraising, spending on research, and other money categories that have little to do with what ugrads actually do).
Rankings aside though, the perception of a school's quality goes up the closer you live to it too lol (having friends who studied all over the US it's interesting to see what their peers thought of as top-schools).
Edit: On topic, I'm wondering where the rumor that Violet was a Visa overstay came from then if that wasn't the case.
On December 12 2013 04:45 seoul_kiM wrote: Aren't all Texas schools second rate kind of except for Rice?
U of T Austin has a great law program though.
Nice generalization. Yeah, here in Texas we ride horses to school (only attend school after herding cattle, number one priority) and our women chew tobacco.
You might believe that I am ignorant, but you don't realize that your definition of second rate and mine might be completely different. I will admit that I am from the Northeast and you might make the generalization that I am an elitist pig. In my mind, I think there are top tier schools and then second rate schools even among your definition of a first rate school. It's not a long list at all: The Ivy League, MIT, CALTech, Berkeley, Duke, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, Rice, Vanderbilt, Emory, UChicago, Northwestern, Wash U in St. Louis, Stanford, Williams, Swarthmore, Amherst. (excluding special schools like Juiliard) The schools that you are referring to might be good schools and even great schools in the local area but Nationally they are not as competitive.
The school you are referring to does not exist in Texas. It's called Deep Springs College in California and it is super competitive with most of its alumni completing a two year program and attending the world's best universities. So yes, I know my shit.
I'm not in high school, I'm not in college, I'm out of college and I work.
On December 12 2013 04:45 seoul_kiM wrote: Aren't all Texas schools second rate kind of except for Rice?
U of T Austin has a great law program though.
Nice generalization. Yeah, here in Texas we ride horses to school (only attend school after herding cattle, number one priority) and our women chew tobacco.
You might believe that I am ignorant, but you don't realize that your definition of second rate and mine might be completely different. I will admit that I am from the Northeast and you might make the generalization that I am an elitist pig. In my mind, I think there are top tier schools and then second rate schools even among your definition of a first rate school. It's not a long list at all: The Ivy League, MIT, CALTech, Berkeley, Duke, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, Rice, Vanderbilt, Emory, UChicago, Northwestern, Wash U in St. Louis, Stanford, Williams, Swarthmore, Amherst. (excluding special schools like Juiliard) The schools that you are referring to might be good schools and even great schools in the local area but Nationally they are not as competitive.
The school you are referring to does not exist in Texas. It's called Deep Springs College in California and it is super competitive with most of its alumni completing a two year program and attending the world's best universities. So yes, I know my shit.
I'm not in high school, I'm not in college, I'm out of college and I work.
um your going way off topic here. basically Texas schools are about as good as most public universities in the US and some have strong programs. he was making a joke about stereotypes not trying to talk about a school.
anyway back on subject good for violet that this finally got resolved
On December 12 2013 04:45 seoul_kiM wrote: Aren't all Texas schools second rate kind of except for Rice?
U of T Austin has a great law program though.
Nice generalization. Yeah, here in Texas we ride horses to school (only attend school after herding cattle, number one priority) and our women chew tobacco.
You might believe that I am ignorant, but you don't realize that your definition of second rate and mine might be completely different. I will admit that I am from the Northeast and you might make the generalization that I am an elitist pig. In my mind, I think there are top tier schools and then second rate schools even among your definition of a first rate school. It's not a long list at all: The Ivy League, MIT, CALTech, Berkeley, Duke, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, Rice, Vanderbilt, Emory, UChicago, Northwestern, Wash U in St. Louis, Stanford, Williams, Swarthmore, Amherst. (excluding special schools like Juiliard) The schools that you are referring to might be good schools and even great schools in the local area but Nationally they are not as competitive.
The school you are referring to does not exist in Texas. It's called Deep Springs College in California and it is super competitive with most of its alumni completing a two year program and attending the world's best universities. So yes, I know my shit.
I'm not in high school, I'm not in college, I'm out of college and I work.
You made a very generic statement about a state with a lot of great Universities. Sure, it might not be to your standard (I went to college outside of Texas by the way, and I also work) but many top programs exist in varying Texas Universities. Also, it's dependent on what you mean by "competitive" when you are ranking schools. I don't really see the point, but if it makes your degree feel more rewarding, then that's cool.
I really don't see the need to get into this further, I was just trying to poke a little fun at such a generalized statement.
On December 12 2013 04:45 seoul_kiM wrote: Aren't all Texas schools second rate kind of except for Rice?
U of T Austin has a great law program though.
Nice generalization. Yeah, here in Texas we ride horses to school (only attend school after herding cattle, number one priority) and our women chew tobacco.
You might believe that I am ignorant, but you don't realize that your definition of second rate and mine might be completely different. I will admit that I am from the Northeast and you might make the generalization that I am an elitist pig. In my mind, I think there are top tier schools and then second rate schools even among your definition of a first rate school. It's not a long list at all: The Ivy League, MIT, CALTech, Berkeley, Duke, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, Rice, Vanderbilt, Emory, UChicago, Northwestern, Wash U in St. Louis, Stanford, Williams, Swarthmore, Amherst. (excluding special schools like Juiliard) The schools that you are referring to might be good schools and even great schools in the local area but Nationally they are not as competitive.
The school you are referring to does not exist in Texas. It's called Deep Springs College in California and it is super competitive with most of its alumni completing a two year program and attending the world's best universities. So yes, I know my shit.
I'm not in high school, I'm not in college, I'm out of college and I work.
Both Texas A&M (11) and the University of Texas at Austin (11) are ranked higher in engineering than Johns Hopkins (25), U Penn (22), Harvard (23), Princeton (17), and the majority of the others you listed who might not even make the list. MIT, Caltech, Berkely, and Stanford among the competing ones. And engineering is a big field, by the way. Don't know what you mean by second rate.
Law? Sure. The northeast has a greater quantity of equally good schools. But for engineering, I pay a fraction (literally less than 20%) of what I would pay to get a better education at A&M than I would at an Ivy League (I was accepted into U Penn as well as Notre Dame and Cornell with scholarships. Didn't apply to anywhere else although I doubt I'd get into MIT).
Some Law stats: UT Austin ranked 15th, behind 14th Georgetown and obviously Ivy league schools are ranked generally in the top 10. It outranks Vanderbilt, Emory, Wash U, and Rice (which isn't even in the list). Others you mentioned aren't on this list or engineering.
Business: UT Austin is ranked 17th, ahead of (again among those you listed): Wash U, Emory, and Georgetown. Texas A&M's Business school wasn't even accredited until 1972, or named until 1996, and it's ranked 35th and has been rising since then.
We may not have 15 ivy league universities in Texas, but the two "flagship" schools of Texas (A&M and UT) slot pretty well into your "shortlist," considering they dominate most of those schools in Engineering, while UT is also more than capable of beating a good number of those schools in your list in both business and law (Texas A&M's business school is relatively new and we apparently JUST acquired a law school in Fort Worth as of 2013. Can't really expect much from that).
If top 15 in 2 of the big three and top 20 in the third aren't "Nationally competitive," maybe you are just elitist. Still doesn't explain those engineering stats though. You go northeast for law, sure. Want a better engineering degree? Northeast ain't gonna serve you so well then. So making your list as you did leaves you either unnecessarily elitist, or extremely biased, for no particular reason if only to hate on public schools.
Additional notes: Texas A&M ranks top 10 in several undergraduate engineering disciplines, and ranks 18th as "best value" nationwide. UT Austin has the 8th ranked undergraduate business program nationwide, with two top 3 rankings, and 10th in undergraduate engineering.
Please, enlighten me as to where top 5's, top 10's, top 15's, and top 20's doesn't qualify as first rate, "nationally competitive" universities. We may not have as many as you do, but the best ones here (even though they're silly public schools) are as good as the best ones anywhere.
On December 12 2013 02:43 Gorlin wrote: Wow, what a dick move by MLG. I'm sure it would not have been difficult to write a damn letter or something, they could have helped a ton with the process.
i am not surprise by MLG doing something like that, it was always about the money for them. After the tournament they probably didnt give a rats ass about violet
On December 12 2013 03:18 Levistus wrote: damn i forgot about violet. i thought this was kt violet. glad he got his visa and will return. i wonder how far he will go now that more koreans play foreign tournaments.
anyone got any idea what they used to prove violet was internationally recognized without the use of videos? also what kind of visas do the koreans on foreign teams have like jaedong? they don't seem to have visa problems or do they stay in korea and only go abroad when there's a tournament?
On December 12 2013 02:43 Gorlin wrote: Wow, what a dick move by MLG. I'm sure it would not have been difficult to write a damn letter or something, they could have helped a ton with the process.
i am not surprise by MLG doing something like that, it was always about the money for them. After the tournament they probably didnt give a rats ass about violet
That isn't true, they have helped out players. Recently the manager of Speed gaming(rencent MLG champs) has a total public melt down and during the event. MLG helped get the team flights home and Adam went to bat for them on reddit when their ex manager started talking trash.
Writing a letter of representation to the federal government is some serious stuff. Unlike TB and the other guys who wrote letters, MLG is a larger company who would likely have to run that by an attorney. I am sure they wanted to, but they can't write a letter for every pro that competed in every one of their events.
I addressed this on the reddit thread on /r/starcraft.
We only endorse players that are attending MLG events for liability reasons. We cannot put our ability to help attain player visas for events we sanction in jeopardy. This is not an issue exclusive to Violet or to SC2 players, it applies to anyone: If we're not operationally liable for the event, we do not endorse visas.
On December 12 2013 04:05 Nerevar wrote: Polt is actually studying at the University of Texas at Austin, not A&M. That's actually a pretty big difference among us Texans, so don't go around mixing the two up if you're ever down here
On December 12 2013 06:20 MLG_Adam wrote: I addressed this on the reddit thread on /r/starcraft.
We only endorse players that are attending MLG events for liability reasons. We cannot put our ability to help attain player visas for events we sanction in jeopardy. This is not an issue exclusive to Violet or to SC2 players, it applies to anyone: If we're not operationally liable for the event, we do not endorse visas.
It's a shame the article didn't go more indepth on this issue, like they did for why Kim Rom didn't want to get involved (although from the comments, he felt that giving his reasons was breaching his privacy...), because most people aren't going to understand the legal complexities.
That said, it's a little surprising that MLG couldn't at least give a reference based on their *history*. But I suppose pulling up the old MLG press-releases would have been something CSA could do on their own to proof Violet's legitimacy as an SC2 competitor.
On December 12 2013 06:20 MLG_Adam wrote: I addressed this on the reddit thread on /r/starcraft.
We only endorse players that are attending MLG events for liability reasons. We cannot put our ability to help attain player visas for events we sanction in jeopardy. This is not an issue exclusive to Violet or to SC2 players, it applies to anyone: If we're not operationally liable for the event, we do not endorse visas.
It's a shame the article didn't go more indepth on this issue, like they did for why Kim Rom didn't want to get involved (although from the comments, he felt that giving his reasons was breaching his privacy...), because most people aren't going to understand the legal complexities.
That said, it's a little surprising that MLG couldn't at least give a reference based on their *history*. But I suppose pulling up the old MLG press-releases would have been something CSA could do on their own to proof Violet's legitimacy as an SC2 competitor.
Agreed. I took umbrage with the article in that it did not objectively outline the risks a corporation like MLG takes on when endorsing someone to a government agency. If something were to happen while an endorsed player was here, MLG would not be 'liable' but we would/could face scrutiny when attempting to endorse other people in the future.
For that reason, we only endorse people when we are operationally liable for the event they are attending.
On December 12 2013 06:20 MLG_Adam wrote: I addressed this on the reddit thread on /r/starcraft.
We only endorse players that are attending MLG events for liability reasons. We cannot put our ability to help attain player visas for events we sanction in jeopardy. This is not an issue exclusive to Violet or to SC2 players, it applies to anyone: If we're not operationally liable for the event, we do not endorse visas.
I hope you're getting a Christmas bonus for all the cheap PR flak you've had to deal with over the last year. I don't envy your job for a second.
On December 12 2013 06:20 MLG_Adam wrote: I addressed this on the reddit thread on /r/starcraft.
We only endorse players that are attending MLG events for liability reasons. We cannot put our ability to help attain player visas for events we sanction in jeopardy. This is not an issue exclusive to Violet or to SC2 players, it applies to anyone: If we're not operationally liable for the event, we do not endorse visas.
Would submitting a letter explaining the legitimacy of competitive Starcraft and Violet's professional status within the game have made your requests for visas elsewhere denied? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed as if you weren't asked to request a visa for Violet, but rather to simply offer your support of CSA's quest to attain it.
On December 12 2013 06:20 MLG_Adam wrote: I addressed this on the reddit thread on /r/starcraft.
We only endorse players that are attending MLG events for liability reasons. We cannot put our ability to help attain player visas for events we sanction in jeopardy. This is not an issue exclusive to Violet or to SC2 players, it applies to anyone: If we're not operationally liable for the event, we do not endorse visas.
Would submitting a letter explaining the legitimacy of competitive Starcraft and Violet's professional status within the game have made your requests for visas elsewhere denied? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed as if you weren't asked to request a visa for Violet, but rather to simply offer your support of CSA's quest to attain it.
Within the normal realm of realistic thinking, you're spot on and I agree. I don't think a letter of endorsement would be a bad thing as Violet is a great guy.
However, when protecting your company's interest you must gauge every possible scenario and 'what if'. What if he did something while he was here? What if he violated his visa somehow? If *something* happened MLG would not be liable for his actions, but our endorsement would definitely lead to scrutinization for future requests we would make.
I have personally handled player visas for 10 years and I know how finicky that process can be. I literally argued with immigration police for 3 hours once to get Hwanni out of detention in Detroit (Ask JP..he caused the fucking mess). We are VERY careful about how we deal with immigration and the visa process as a whole.
I have personally handled player visas for 10 years and I know how finicky that process can be. I literally argued with immigration police for 3 hours once to get Hwanni out of detention in Detroit (Ask JP..he caused the fucking mess). We are VERY careful about how we deal with immigration and the visa process as a whole.
Hahahahhaa that was one of the best moments in my time at MLG. Sitting inside a hotel room listening to Adam speak to some immigration officer because of a random call that woke me up informing me that Hwanni was trying to enter the country. MLG may be careful about the process, but I had no idea!
I found that part of the article to be a bit one sided as well. Many companies won't write a letter of representation, including my firm. Even of the person is a current employee. And when people ask why, I tell them it is because we for burned badly. Like very badly. I was not shocked at all that MLG couldn't help. I am sure they would love to help, but it's to much risk for someone who isn't going to attend their event in the near future.
On December 12 2013 06:20 MLG_Adam wrote: I addressed this on the reddit thread on /r/starcraft.
We only endorse players that are attending MLG events for liability reasons. We cannot put our ability to help attain player visas for events we sanction in jeopardy. This is not an issue exclusive to Violet or to SC2 players, it applies to anyone: If we're not operationally liable for the event, we do not endorse visas.
Would submitting a letter explaining the legitimacy of competitive Starcraft and Violet's professional status within the game have made your requests for visas elsewhere denied? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed as if you weren't asked to request a visa for Violet, but rather to simply offer your support of CSA's quest to attain it.
Within the normal realm of realistic thinking, you're spot on and I agree. I don't think a letter of endorsement would be a bad thing as Violet is a great guy.
However, when protecting your company's interest you must gauge every possible scenario and 'what if'. What if he did something while he was here? What if he violated his visa somehow? If *something* happened MLG would not be liable for his actions, but our endorsement would definitely lead to scrutinization for future requests we would make.
I have personally handled player visas for 10 years and I know how finicky that process can be. I literally argued with immigration police for 3 hours once to get Hwanni out of detention in Detroit (Ask JP..he caused the fucking mess). We are VERY careful about how we deal with immigration and the visa process as a whole.
Yeah I'm not grabbing my torch and pitchfork or anything, and I understand the concern. It is much easier to forgive since he got his visa anyway. Would've been a little more upset if this thread was about him getting the boot back to Korea. It just seemed that (with a player you've endorsed before without incident who has been living here for some time without incident and just wants to study and play Starcraft for a living) an exception could have been made. However I have never been in your position with a whole company to think about nor do I have experience with the visa/immigration process so I'll just leave it at that.
On December 12 2013 06:20 MLG_Adam wrote: I addressed this on the reddit thread on /r/starcraft.
We only endorse players that are attending MLG events for liability reasons. We cannot put our ability to help attain player visas for events we sanction in jeopardy. This is not an issue exclusive to Violet or to SC2 players, it applies to anyone: If we're not operationally liable for the event, we do not endorse visas.
Would submitting a letter explaining the legitimacy of competitive Starcraft and Violet's professional status within the game have made your requests for visas elsewhere denied? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed as if you weren't asked to request a visa for Violet, but rather to simply offer your support of CSA's quest to attain it.
Within the normal realm of realistic thinking, you're spot on and I agree. I don't think a letter of endorsement would be a bad thing as Violet is a great guy.
However, when protecting your company's interest you must gauge every possible scenario and 'what if'. What if he did something while he was here? What if he violated his visa somehow? If *something* happened MLG would not be liable for his actions, but our endorsement would definitely lead to scrutinization for future requests we would make.
I have personally handled player visas for 10 years and I know how finicky that process can be. I literally argued with immigration police for 3 hours once to get Hwanni out of detention in Detroit (Ask JP..he caused the fucking mess). We are VERY careful about how we deal with immigration and the visa process as a whole.
Yeah I'm not grabbing my torch and pitchfork or anything, and I understand the concern. It is much easier to forgive since he got his visa anyway. Would've been a little more upset if this thread was about him getting the boot back to Korea. It just seemed that (with a player you've endorsed before without incident who has been living here for some time without incident and just wants to study and play Starcraft for a living) an exception could have been made. However I have never been in your position with a whole company to think about nor do I have experience with the visa/immigration process so I'll just leave it at that.
Or just organize a 1v1 showmatch between Violet and yourself at your next event so you wouldn't set a precedent for making exceptions to your policy
On December 12 2013 06:20 MLG_Adam wrote: I addressed this on the reddit thread on /r/starcraft.
We only endorse players that are attending MLG events for liability reasons. We cannot put our ability to help attain player visas for events we sanction in jeopardy. This is not an issue exclusive to Violet or to SC2 players, it applies to anyone: If we're not operationally liable for the event, we do not endorse visas.
Would submitting a letter explaining the legitimacy of competitive Starcraft and Violet's professional status within the game have made your requests for visas elsewhere denied? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed as if you weren't asked to request a visa for Violet, but rather to simply offer your support of CSA's quest to attain it.
Within the normal realm of realistic thinking, you're spot on and I agree. I don't think a letter of endorsement would be a bad thing as Violet is a great guy.
However, when protecting your company's interest you must gauge every possible scenario and 'what if'. What if he did something while he was here? What if he violated his visa somehow? If *something* happened MLG would not be liable for his actions, but our endorsement would definitely lead to scrutinization for future requests we would make.
I have personally handled player visas for 10 years and I know how finicky that process can be. I literally argued with immigration police for 3 hours once to get Hwanni out of detention in Detroit (Ask JP..he caused the fucking mess). We are VERY careful about how we deal with immigration and the visa process as a whole.
Yeah I'm not grabbing my torch and pitchfork or anything, and I understand the concern. It is much easier to forgive since he got his visa anyway. Would've been a little more upset if this thread was about him getting the boot back to Korea. It just seemed that (with a player you've endorsed before without incident who has been living here for some time without incident and just wants to study and play Starcraft for a living) an exception could have been made. However I have never been in your position with a whole company to think about nor do I have experience with the visa/immigration process so I'll just leave it at that.
Like all business decisions, making exceptions is a bad road to start going down. If you help viOLet, wouldn't Polt deserve the same kind of help? And what if MC or MVP want the same leg-up? Pretty soon you're either accepting liability for several players who aren't directly related to your business, or you're giving unfair treatment to a single player and playing favouritism.
And while it may not seem like a big deal with helping players to get visas, imagine hypothetically if viOLet's first visa violation had occurred while he had been explicitly sponsored by a major tournament organization. US Immigration rules are a very, very thin line, and the last thing you want is to have them scrutinize you. viOLet very nearly blew his chances to come work in the US forever (and possibly even just travelling)...and the same kind of backlash can occur for a business that represented his travels.
On December 12 2013 04:45 seoul_kiM wrote: Aren't all Texas schools second rate kind of except for Rice?
U of T Austin has a great law program though.
Nice generalization. Yeah, here in Texas we ride horses to school (only attend school after herding cattle, number one priority) and our women chew tobacco.
You might believe that I am ignorant, but you don't realize that your definition of second rate and mine might be completely different. I will admit that I am from the Northeast and you might make the generalization that I am an elitist pig. In my mind, I think there are top tier schools and then second rate schools even among your definition of a first rate school. It's not a long list at all: The Ivy League, MIT, CALTech, Berkeley, Duke, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, Rice, Vanderbilt, Emory, UChicago, Northwestern, Wash U in St. Louis, Stanford, Williams, Swarthmore, Amherst. (excluding special schools like Juiliard) The schools that you are referring to might be good schools and even great schools in the local area but Nationally they are not as competitive.
The school you are referring to does not exist in Texas. It's called Deep Springs College in California and it is super competitive with most of its alumni completing a two year program and attending the world's best universities. So yes, I know my shit.
I'm not in high school, I'm not in college, I'm out of college and I work.
Both Texas A&M (11) and the University of Texas at Austin (11) are ranked higher in engineering than Johns Hopkins (25), U Penn (22), Harvard (23), Princeton (17), and the majority of the others you listed who might not even make the list. MIT, Caltech, Berkely, and Stanford among the competing ones. And engineering is a big field, by the way. Don't know what you mean by second rate.
You left out U of I Urbana-Champaign T~T haha I went there that's why gogo Fighting Illini!
I'm curious if violet will go to the army or dodge it altogether. In our country people generally tend to look down upon people who don't go through the mandatory military service. Can anybody Korean tell if this is the case there as well?
On December 12 2013 05:55 Alryk wrote: Love ViOlet :D
On December 12 2013 05:26 seoul_kiM wrote:
On December 12 2013 04:50 Ctone23 wrote:
On December 12 2013 04:45 seoul_kiM wrote: Aren't all Texas schools second rate kind of except for Rice?
U of T Austin has a great law program though.
Nice generalization. Yeah, here in Texas we ride horses to school (only attend school after herding cattle, number one priority) and our women chew tobacco.
You might believe that I am ignorant, but you don't realize that your definition of second rate and mine might be completely different. I will admit that I am from the Northeast and you might make the generalization that I am an elitist pig. In my mind, I think there are top tier schools and then second rate schools even among your definition of a first rate school. It's not a long list at all: The Ivy League, MIT, CALTech, Berkeley, Duke, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, Rice, Vanderbilt, Emory, UChicago, Northwestern, Wash U in St. Louis, Stanford, Williams, Swarthmore, Amherst. (excluding special schools like Juiliard) The schools that you are referring to might be good schools and even great schools in the local area but Nationally they are not as competitive.
The school you are referring to does not exist in Texas. It's called Deep Springs College in California and it is super competitive with most of its alumni completing a two year program and attending the world's best universities. So yes, I know my shit.
I'm not in high school, I'm not in college, I'm out of college and I work.
Both Texas A&M (11) and the University of Texas at Austin (11) are ranked higher in engineering than Johns Hopkins (25), U Penn (22), Harvard (23), Princeton (17), and the majority of the others you listed who might not even make the list. MIT, Caltech, Berkely, and Stanford among the competing ones. And engineering is a big field, by the way. Don't know what you mean by second rate.
You left out U of I Urbana-Champaign T~T haha I went there that's why gogo Fighting Illini!
I go to U of I right now, ahaha gogo Fighting Illini!! Responding to the elitist pig above, you are ignorant if that is your definition of first and second rate. If you were out of high school and college and doing work in the field one would think you would be more knowledgeable about the different colleges around the country. Your portrayed understanding of top tier just reflects admission rates and the name value, rather than actual programs, professors, and major specific rankings. Its hard for me to comprehend how these can be the only relevant schools in the nation for you. I love how everyone always skips over our school when we are top 10 for almost all undergrad engineering majors
I have personally handled player visas for 10 years and I know how finicky that process can be. I literally argued with immigration police for 3 hours once to get Hwanni out of detention in Detroit (Ask JP..he caused the fucking mess). We are VERY careful about how we deal with immigration and the visa process as a whole.
Hahahahhaa that was one of the best moments in my time at MLG. Sitting inside a hotel room listening to Adam speak to some immigration officer because of a random call that woke me up informing me that Hwanni was trying to enter the country. MLG may be careful about the process, but I had no idea!
Is it to much to ask for a Real Talk with Adam about this story and other Visa nightmares? There are tons of folks who just love to here these behind the scenes stories and these sound pretty amusing.
On December 12 2013 02:32 ptbl wrote: Grats to Violet! In the article, it seems MLG and gamespot/ongamers refused to help Violet with the visa application process, while others like NASL CEO, DJWheat and others helped.
MLG looks pretty bad here, saying "screw him he's not one of ours", essentially. Pretty selfish thing to do when their WHOLE BUSINESS is eSports!
On December 12 2013 02:32 ptbl wrote: Grats to Violet! In the article, it seems MLG and gamespot/ongamers refused to help Violet with the visa application process, while others like NASL CEO, DJWheat and others helped.
MLG looks pretty bad here, saying "screw him he's not one of ours", essentially. Pretty selfish thing to do when their WHOLE BUSINESS is eSports!
Except for Adam explained in this thread that is not the case. If you had taken the time to read the thread, you would know this. They are willing to help anyone with a visa if they are attending one of their events. However, to keep a good relationship with the USCS, they only do so for players attending their events.
Thank God this all worked out, I can't imagine any part of it was easy for him. Hopefully we'll see him splash into the WCS America stuff (although I have literally no idea how their system is working in 2014).
On December 12 2013 05:55 Alryk wrote: Love ViOlet :D
On December 12 2013 05:26 seoul_kiM wrote:
On December 12 2013 04:50 Ctone23 wrote:
On December 12 2013 04:45 seoul_kiM wrote: Aren't all Texas schools second rate kind of except for Rice?
U of T Austin has a great law program though.
Nice generalization. Yeah, here in Texas we ride horses to school (only attend school after herding cattle, number one priority) and our women chew tobacco.
You might believe that I am ignorant, but you don't realize that your definition of second rate and mine might be completely different. I will admit that I am from the Northeast and you might make the generalization that I am an elitist pig. In my mind, I think there are top tier schools and then second rate schools even among your definition of a first rate school. It's not a long list at all: The Ivy League, MIT, CALTech, Berkeley, Duke, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, Rice, Vanderbilt, Emory, UChicago, Northwestern, Wash U in St. Louis, Stanford, Williams, Swarthmore, Amherst. (excluding special schools like Juiliard) The schools that you are referring to might be good schools and even great schools in the local area but Nationally they are not as competitive.
The school you are referring to does not exist in Texas. It's called Deep Springs College in California and it is super competitive with most of its alumni completing a two year program and attending the world's best universities. So yes, I know my shit.
I'm not in high school, I'm not in college, I'm out of college and I work.
Both Texas A&M (11) and the University of Texas at Austin (11) are ranked higher in engineering than Johns Hopkins (25), U Penn (22), Harvard (23), Princeton (17), and the majority of the others you listed who might not even make the list. MIT, Caltech, Berkely, and Stanford among the competing ones. And engineering is a big field, by the way. Don't know what you mean by second rate.
You left out U of I Urbana-Champaign T~T haha I went there that's why gogo Fighting Illini!
I go to U of I right now, ahaha gogo Fighting Illini!! Responding to the elitist pig above, you are ignorant if that is your definition of first and second rate. If you were out of high school and college and doing work in the field one would think you would be more knowledgeable about the different colleges around the country. Your portrayed understanding of top tier just reflects admission rates and the name value, rather than actual programs, professors, and major specific rankings. Its hard for me to comprehend how these can be the only relevant schools in the nation for you. I love how everyone always skips over our school when we are top 10 for almost all undergrad engineering majors
Purdue>Illinois but yeah Illinois very good school.
Also people should stop implying that \he's trying to avoid military service. The article simply says military service would be a likely choice if he had not gotten the visa (it would be his choice, since he still has a few years before he absolutely has to go). Dodging military service is like a cardinal sin in SK and it can easily ruin the career of any public figure.
On December 13 2013 01:34 Antisocialmunky wrote: Congrats, is he the first SCII player that has this?
I've mostly heard of Lol players.
PS. I have to say, I always think of KT_Violet when I see violet. :\
He's probably the first SC2 player that actually needed it. Most players only need a temporary Visa for a week at most. Then guys like Polt get a student visa.
I'm so happy for the guy. I wasn't even aware that there was a special visa for pro athletes or that e-sports pros couldn't qualify for it until recently.
On December 12 2013 05:55 Alryk wrote: Love ViOlet :D
On December 12 2013 05:26 seoul_kiM wrote:
On December 12 2013 04:50 Ctone23 wrote:
On December 12 2013 04:45 seoul_kiM wrote: Aren't all Texas schools second rate kind of except for Rice?
U of T Austin has a great law program though.
Nice generalization. Yeah, here in Texas we ride horses to school (only attend school after herding cattle, number one priority) and our women chew tobacco.
You might believe that I am ignorant, but you don't realize that your definition of second rate and mine might be completely different. I will admit that I am from the Northeast and you might make the generalization that I am an elitist pig. In my mind, I think there are top tier schools and then second rate schools even among your definition of a first rate school. It's not a long list at all: The Ivy League, MIT, CALTech, Berkeley, Duke, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, Rice, Vanderbilt, Emory, UChicago, Northwestern, Wash U in St. Louis, Stanford, Williams, Swarthmore, Amherst. (excluding special schools like Juiliard) The schools that you are referring to might be good schools and even great schools in the local area but Nationally they are not as competitive.
The school you are referring to does not exist in Texas. It's called Deep Springs College in California and it is super competitive with most of its alumni completing a two year program and attending the world's best universities. So yes, I know my shit.
I'm not in high school, I'm not in college, I'm out of college and I work.
Both Texas A&M (11) and the University of Texas at Austin (11) are ranked higher in engineering than Johns Hopkins (25), U Penn (22), Harvard (23), Princeton (17), and the majority of the others you listed who might not even make the list. MIT, Caltech, Berkely, and Stanford among the competing ones. And engineering is a big field, by the way. Don't know what you mean by second rate.
You left out U of I Urbana-Champaign T~T haha I went there that's why gogo Fighting Illini!
I go to U of I right now, ahaha gogo Fighting Illini!! Responding to the elitist pig above, you are ignorant if that is your definition of first and second rate. If you were out of high school and college and doing work in the field one would think you would be more knowledgeable about the different colleges around the country. Your portrayed understanding of top tier just reflects admission rates and the name value, rather than actual programs, professors, and major specific rankings. Its hard for me to comprehend how these can be the only relevant schools in the nation for you. I love how everyone always skips over our school when we are top 10 for almost all undergrad engineering majors
Purdue>Illinois but yeah Illinois very good school.
Eh he isn't wrong. A&M is pretty much 3rd tier. Austin is top of 2nd tier or bottom of 1st tier. Hopkins, Penn, Harvard, Princeton are all top tier. Perhaps at specific disciplines there are decent programs in Texas, but other than Rice and UT I wouldn't really consider any of them as something special.
On December 15 2013 05:27 WetSocks wrote: So does it mean he postponed his military service or totally dodged it?
He just got a working visa. That means he doesn't need to go into the Korean military right NOW. He is still a Korean citizen though, which means he still has an obligation into military service.
If he were to become a US citizen (after meeting the requirements of living in the US for X amount of years), then he would have completely dodged military service.
On December 12 2013 05:55 Alryk wrote: Love ViOlet :D
On December 12 2013 05:26 seoul_kiM wrote:
On December 12 2013 04:50 Ctone23 wrote:
On December 12 2013 04:45 seoul_kiM wrote: Aren't all Texas schools second rate kind of except for Rice?
U of T Austin has a great law program though.
Nice generalization. Yeah, here in Texas we ride horses to school (only attend school after herding cattle, number one priority) and our women chew tobacco.
You might believe that I am ignorant, but you don't realize that your definition of second rate and mine might be completely different. I will admit that I am from the Northeast and you might make the generalization that I am an elitist pig. In my mind, I think there are top tier schools and then second rate schools even among your definition of a first rate school. It's not a long list at all: The Ivy League, MIT, CALTech, Berkeley, Duke, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, Rice, Vanderbilt, Emory, UChicago, Northwestern, Wash U in St. Louis, Stanford, Williams, Swarthmore, Amherst. (excluding special schools like Juiliard) The schools that you are referring to might be good schools and even great schools in the local area but Nationally they are not as competitive.
The school you are referring to does not exist in Texas. It's called Deep Springs College in California and it is super competitive with most of its alumni completing a two year program and attending the world's best universities. So yes, I know my shit.
I'm not in high school, I'm not in college, I'm out of college and I work.
Both Texas A&M (11) and the University of Texas at Austin (11) are ranked higher in engineering than Johns Hopkins (25), U Penn (22), Harvard (23), Princeton (17), and the majority of the others you listed who might not even make the list. MIT, Caltech, Berkely, and Stanford among the competing ones. And engineering is a big field, by the way. Don't know what you mean by second rate.
You left out U of I Urbana-Champaign T~T haha I went there that's why gogo Fighting Illini!
I go to U of I right now, ahaha gogo Fighting Illini!! Responding to the elitist pig above, you are ignorant if that is your definition of first and second rate. If you were out of high school and college and doing work in the field one would think you would be more knowledgeable about the different colleges around the country. Your portrayed understanding of top tier just reflects admission rates and the name value, rather than actual programs, professors, and major specific rankings. Its hard for me to comprehend how these can be the only relevant schools in the nation for you. I love how everyone always skips over our school when we are top 10 for almost all undergrad engineering majors
Purdue>Illinois but yeah Illinois very good school.
Eh he isn't wrong. A&M is pretty much 3rd tier. Austin is top of 2nd tier or bottom of 1st tier. Hopkins, Penn, Harvard, Princeton are all top tier. Perhaps at specific disciplines there are decent programs in Texas, but other than Rice and UT I wouldn't really consider any of them as something special.
Doesn't UT Austin have the #1 Accounting school in the US? Something like that.... People underestimate UT Austin because it's a public University, but it really is up there in the rankings. They have really good departments, regardless of whether or not everyone in the school needs a 4.0 GPA to enter.
On December 15 2013 06:02 iamho wrote: Dodging the military to play a video game? If I was Korean I'd be pissed.
Meanwhile, there are people with doctorate degrees who get denied entry to the United States.
Way to have a terrible outlook on the situation.
Saying the same thing in a not completely shitty way would be: Doing what you love finally made possible? This is going to inspire many Koreans.
This is a stepping stone in the right direction to help professionals work their way into their dream jobs.
You seem to not realize that to someone who is looking to make a living in an immediate profession, you need to not waste 2 years in the military. That's why Korea is allowing him to pursue this dream. It's not like he's exploiting a flaw in their system.
As for doctors.... There are shit tons of doctors, and doctors are expensive to hire. Getting a working visa as a doctor with little to no working experience is obviously going to be harder than an athlete getting an athletes visa. If a doctor has an amazing resume, they would have an easier time getting a working visa than, say, viOLet.
Violet isn't going to become a naturalized US citizen anytime soon*, unless he married a US citizen. He's not eligible to apply for citizenship with that athlete visa.
If his goal is to avoid military duty, then he best marry some girl within the next year; because the process from petition to change status to taking the oath will take about 5 years.
But that is the situation of virtually every non-American SC2 player. The Chinese players went through similar drama and NASL had issues getting Eastern European players over as well. The type of visa Violet got is a long term deal, while for the majority of non-US players they are getting short-term visas that would only apply for a single event. And often can't even be applied for until you qualify for the offline stages.
On December 16 2013 05:10 Wuster wrote: But that is the situation of virtually every non-American SC2 player. The Chinese players went through similar drama and NASL had issues getting Eastern European players over as well. The type of visa Violet got is a long term deal, while for the majority of non-US players they are getting short-term visas that would only apply for a single event. And often can't even be applied for until you qualify for the offline stages.
Yeah but the thing is he could easily foresee his problem, and in fact repeated it 3 times.
EPT
Wooo!!! 
