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On December 04 2013 15:51 Zorkmid wrote:
Mech is boring to watch, boring to play against, and probably boring to play as well. I'd rather see a redesign of the way a different composition would work, rather than making it easier to play boring games. We've already got enough slow moving globular strats out there.
Bio becomes just as boring to watch when its the only strategy terran can do. Especially since bio doesn't really have any lategame transitions available, prompting terrans to go for a hyperaggressive midgame every single game.
Making mech viable as it is seems to be the easiest way to bring some options for terran. Anything else would require a full redesign of the race.
Also I don't think people hated BL/infestor for being a boring playstyle, people hated it because it was plain overpowered.
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On December 04 2013 14:43 LaLuSh wrote:
I don't think you can make mech both viable and balanced in SC2, goody. Not without making the game incredibly boring and having it automatically nerfed 3-6 months later because of the community backlash.
I don't play the game anymore so I have no reason to be against mech or your style anymore.
This is my argument: Mech is a slow moving composition, the same sort of composition as Broodlord/Infestor. If you want to make a slow moving composition viable in an RTS game, you have to make the slow moving composition more efficient than the normal faster moving compositions.
We have one example in the history of SC2 where this was true for a composition: Broodlord/Infestor in 2011-2012.
Unfortunately, you know just as well as me that when an objectively superior composition exists in SC2, players tend to always go for the 200 max out before they want to fight army vs army. This is what every shitty broodlord/infestor patchzerg did in 2011-2012. They took 3 bases and rushed for 200 while camping behind static defenses because they knew their composition was superior (it wasn't critical to stop opponent from expanding to 4-5 bases).
This is the same as your strategy with Mech vs zerg and probably versus terran as well. You slowly take 3-4 bases and camp until you are close to 200 before you allow any action to take place on the map. The only problem for you is that mech isn't as strong as BL/Infestor used to be, so you don't have a bunch of zergs and protosses suiciding into you in the midgame like people used to do versus BL/Infestor.
Now... if Blizzard were to buff mech even more and make it a viable composition... that would mean mech would have to be a more cost efficient composition than everything else because mech is slow moving... and that would mean every terran would go for the slow, safe, 200 goody game before they risked any big engagement.
You would see such an explosion of whine everywhere that mech would only last a maximum 3 months before being nerfed again. Because if you make mech viable in SC2, that means you have simply created the equivalent of BL/Infestor for Terran.
Pretty much this. I believe this is what NoNy was also alluding to in his V-log in terms of buffing Mech to real viability leading to endless Protoss all-ins. I don't believe we will see Mech as a style of play similar to BW from SC2 Terran (it may yet come from Zerg and Protoss). Not without radically changing the game - and frankly, I don't want that and nor does anyone who remembers the nerf/buff madness from most of WOL and the constantly fluctuating Metagame. That shit gets exhausting and does no-one any good. (So many wonky suggestions in these types of thread just because of some Factory fetish...)
If Mech is to be a viable play style, I'm happy to leave it to DK and Blizzard and maybe we will get there (even if it takes as long as LOTV). Sure, Mech would be nice to have in TvP, but it is not necessary to have. We can do without for a while yet.
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On December 04 2013 15:28 Fegir wrote:
Hello,
Zerglings do have 35 Hp, so they get oneshotted by a Tank now unless they have a Armor upgrade.
Why does this matter? On 2.8 Atk Speed Siege tanks can take 2 Shots on Zerglings, therefore 2 times Zerglings die. With 1.4 and less Damage they could take 3 Shots which doesnt kill Zerglings on the 3rd Shot. (Why can they take 2 before and now only 3 shots? First shot Happens instantly so CD doesn't matter on the first Shot. So if you have 2.8 after this, the new version shots 2 times in that time and the old one 1 time in that time.) This would reduce the dmg dealt versus Zerglings signifcantly and would be a huge Nerf to mech/siegetankcompositions in TvZ.
You can't simply reduce the Dmg and keep it on the same DPS you have to see the Shots taken to kill something. The Instant first shot is very Important for Siege tanks in TvZ.
Next example: Roaches have 145 HP(Armored) and need 3 Shots to be killed now. (5.6 Seconds in Siege Tank range)
New Siege Tank: 6 Shots (7 Seconds in Siege Tank range)
Infestor 90 HP(Armored): 2 Shots Old Siege Tank (2.8)
4 Shots New Siege Tank (4.2)
Broodling 30HP: 1 Shot Old Siege Tank
2 Shots New Siege Tank (1.4)
Baneling 30Hp: 1 Shot Old Siege Tank
2 Shots New Siege Tank (1.4)
TvT:
Marine 55HP(Combat Shield not Stimmed): 2 Shots Old Siege Tank (2.8)
4 Shots New Siege Tank (4.2)
Goodbye Siege Tank <3
It's 2 instant shots, like banshee, it does the same amount of damage but in 2 parts, at the same fire rate.
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On December 04 2013 15:51 Zorkmid wrote:
Mech is boring to watch, boring to play against, and probably boring to play as well. I'd rather see a redesign of the way a different composition would work, rather than making it easier to play boring games. We've already got enough slow moving globular strats out there.
MVP vs Curious where real entertaining games, still he was playing mech.
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Double tank damage, half rate of fire!!!!
Please blizz. Also remove smart targeting
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On December 04 2013 06:12 RaZorwire wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 06:00 Eatme wrote:
I'd prefer some thor buff. It's prettymuch underused and therefor has potential for an interesting buff. I wouldn't mind something being done about Thors either, but buffing tanks seems more urgent since it would (hypothetically) allow Terrans to create tank lines that Protoss can't just break by balling up their units and a-moving. Forcing Protoss to be the multi-tasking harass-based race for once would be pretty cool, and tanks are better suited for that than Thors.
Yeah thats why I didnt suggest how to buff thors. Plus me being a zerg player ofc.
Someone should really make a testmap of the twoshot so we can try it out. Another interesting thing would be to nerf hardend shield a bit, maybe so it takes 15 damage instead. Just play around with it from that angle would be good. It's not like you can go roach vs a few immortals anyway.
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On December 04 2013 15:52 Fission wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 15:48 tshi wrote:
I just watched the tail end of Avilo's stream and he basically ranted/whined about Protoss the entire time. My question is, are a lot of people like that? Is that something common in the SC2 community? I get wanting to vent and stuff, but the amount was so staggering, haha. Avilo is known for behaving like that. He whined when terran was unanimously considered overpowered. He whines now. he will always whine.
Avilo is whiny, same as for example Idra always was, a bit biased (again, same as Idra) and his presentation when discussing balance is not the best, but he does have some good points and ideas about mech and he has much more experience with it than people who criticize him. People just immediately dismiss it because it comes from Avilo.
For example, he was talking about reducing the cost of armories to make mech upgrades easier to obtain and Blizzard also approached mech issue with the idea of somehow making upgrades better.
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On December 04 2013 15:51 ImperialFist wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 15:32 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 14:43 LaLuSh wrote:
I don't think you can make mech both viable and balanced in SC2, goody. Not without making the game incredibly boring and having it automatically nerfed 3-6 months later because of the community backlash.
I don't play the game anymore so I have no reason to be against mech or your style anymore.
This is my argument: Mech is a slow moving composition, the same sort of composition as Broodlord/Infestor. If you want to make a slow moving composition viable in an RTS game, you have to make the slow moving composition more efficient than the normal faster moving compositions.
We have one example in the history of SC2 where this was true for a composition: Broodlord/Infestor in 2011-2012.
Unfortunately, you know just as well as me that when an objectively superior composition exists in SC2, players tend to always go for the 200 max out before they want to fight army vs army. This is what every shitty broodlord/infestor patchzerg did in 2011-2012. They took 3 bases and rushed for 200 while camping behind static defenses because they knew their composition was superior (it wasn't critical to stop opponent from expanding to 4-5 bases).
This is the same as your strategy with Mech vs zerg and probably versus terran as well. You slowly take 3-4 bases and camp until you are close to 200 before you allow any action to take place on the map. The only problem for you is that mech isn't as strong as BL/Infestor used to be, so you don't have a bunch of zergs and protosses suiciding into you in the midgame like people used to do versus BL/Infestor.
Now... if Blizzard were to buff mech even more and make it a viable composition... that would mean mech would have to be a more cost efficient composition than everything else because mech is slow moving... and that would mean every terran would go for the slow, safe, 200 goody game before they risked any big engagement.
You would see such an explosion of whine everywhere that mech would only last a maximum 3 months before being nerfed again. Because if you make mech viable in SC2, that means you have simply created the equivalent of BL/Infestor for Terran. I actually enjoyed BL/Infestor, but that's because I saw infestors as tanks and ling/creep as spider mines/vulture. And you where sober at the time? Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 15:37 ETisME wrote:On December 04 2013 15:32 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 14:43 LaLuSh wrote:
I don't think you can make mech both viable and balanced in SC2, goody. Not without making the game incredibly boring and having it automatically nerfed 3-6 months later because of the community backlash.
I don't play the game anymore so I have no reason to be against mech or your style anymore.
This is my argument: Mech is a slow moving composition, the same sort of composition as Broodlord/Infestor. If you want to make a slow moving composition viable in an RTS game, you have to make the slow moving composition more efficient than the normal faster moving compositions.
We have one example in the history of SC2 where this was true for a composition: Broodlord/Infestor in 2011-2012.
Unfortunately, you know just as well as me that when an objectively superior composition exists in SC2, players tend to always go for the 200 max out before they want to fight army vs army. This is what every shitty broodlord/infestor patchzerg did in 2011-2012. They took 3 bases and rushed for 200 while camping behind static defenses because they knew their composition was superior (it wasn't critical to stop opponent from expanding to 4-5 bases).
This is the same as your strategy with Mech vs zerg and probably versus terran as well. You slowly take 3-4 bases and camp until you are close to 200 before you allow any action to take place on the map. The only problem for you is that mech isn't as strong as BL/Infestor used to be, so you don't have a bunch of zergs and protosses suiciding into you in the midgame like people used to do versus BL/Infestor.
Now... if Blizzard were to buff mech even more and make it a viable composition... that would mean mech would have to be a more cost efficient composition than everything else because mech is slow moving... and that would mean every terran would go for the slow, safe, 200 goody game before they risked any big engagement.
You would see such an explosion of whine everywhere that mech would only last a maximum 3 months before being nerfed again. Because if you make mech viable in SC2, that means you have simply created the equivalent of BL/Infestor for Terran. I actually enjoyed BL/Infestor, but that's because I saw infestors as tanks and ling/creep as spider mines/vulture. imo the best kind of infestor bl ZvT were the uber fast hive into broodlord infestors. terran bio can actually fight toe to toe due to better upgrades, drops are extremely deadly because zerg rushed hive and GS and BL and won't have spines and spores to defend all the drops and the 4th is hard to hold for zerg. it's awesome to watch a terran cracking the zerg's slow deathball defense and break the whole defense wall down with drops, surrounds etc Wow I think we need BL-Infestor back then eh? The most hated comp in rts history....
The problem was that zerg tanks hit air, zerg spider mines were free, and zerg vultures cost 25 minerals each. Add to that the lategame switch to Infestor gave zerg a mobile tank force that could base race with crawling buildings following them.
The first 15-20 minutes of BL/Infestor was good when zerg was constantly spreading creep, dropping spines, and had to split infestors and lings to survive drops. It was the last 5-10 minutes where the army was mobile AND wouldn't die that sucked.
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i would say we also buff skytoss because its completely trash vs. bio
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On December 04 2013 16:09 Eatme wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 06:12 RaZorwire wrote:On December 04 2013 06:00 Eatme wrote:
I'd prefer some thor buff. It's prettymuch underused and therefor has potential for an interesting buff. I wouldn't mind something being done about Thors either, but buffing tanks seems more urgent since it would (hypothetically) allow Terrans to create tank lines that Protoss can't just break by balling up their units and a-moving. Forcing Protoss to be the multi-tasking harass-based race for once would be pretty cool, and tanks are better suited for that than Thors. Yeah thats why I didnt suggest how to buff thors. Plus me being a zerg player ofc. Someone should really make a testmap of the twoshot so we can try it out. Another interesting thing would be to nerf hardend shield a bit, maybe so it takes 15 damage instead. Just play around with it from that angle would be good. It's not like you can go roach vs a few immortals anyway.
Thors dont need a buff, they need an honest to god redesign. They don't provide anything that 3-4 Marauders don't already provide.
Imagine a job that a concept unit similar to a thor should fill that isn't already filled?
Anti-Armor? Marauder.
Anti-Light? Hellbat.
Anti-Air? Marine.
Long-Range anti-air? Viking.
The problem with Thors is not that they are weak, the problem is that they don't give anything that isn't already filled but with a cheaper and faster to build unit. Find a fit, then balance him to work in that position.
My personal favorite is to make him a mobile "factory" where he is a spellcaster that uses minerals to cast his spells. A kind of "uber reaver." Maybe even make it a factory upgrade where instead of building a thor, the Factory morphs into a thor and instead of producing units it produces drones and specialized ammo.
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On December 04 2013 16:44 KaizoOnFire wrote:
i would say we also buff skytoss because its completely trash vs. bio
Sky toss will never work anyways since you dont have a cheap mineral fodder. Mech is on the rope of working and it just need an extra push. It also distinctively different style from bio so if mech is viable without affecting bio then it good for the over all game for making the game more diverse. Think of mech as a race rather than some sort of unit composition because it play completely different from traditional bio and other race act completely different against it. Will skytoss be different from traditional protoss deathball? No, it will probably just be another slow deathball unit composition like collosus/HT because the core unit in sky toss are slow and therefore offer no real difference from traditional protoss. Making mech work is good for the overall game by making the game more different. And guess what, sky toss is actually pretty good against mech and could be a possible future meta if mech is viable.
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On December 04 2013 16:58 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 16:09 Eatme wrote:On December 04 2013 06:12 RaZorwire wrote:On December 04 2013 06:00 Eatme wrote:
I'd prefer some thor buff. It's prettymuch underused and therefor has potential for an interesting buff. I wouldn't mind something being done about Thors either, but buffing tanks seems more urgent since it would (hypothetically) allow Terrans to create tank lines that Protoss can't just break by balling up their units and a-moving. Forcing Protoss to be the multi-tasking harass-based race for once would be pretty cool, and tanks are better suited for that than Thors. Yeah thats why I didnt suggest how to buff thors. Plus me being a zerg player ofc. Someone should really make a testmap of the twoshot so we can try it out. Another interesting thing would be to nerf hardend shield a bit, maybe so it takes 15 damage instead. Just play around with it from that angle would be good. It's not like you can go roach vs a few immortals anyway. Thors dont need a buff, they need an honest to god redesign. They don't provide anything that 3-4 Marauders don't already provide. Imagine a job that a concept unit similar to a thor should fill that isn't already filled? Anti-Armor? Marauder. Anti-Light? Hellbat. Anti-Air? Marine. Long-Range anti-air? Viking. The problem with Thors is not that they are weak, the problem is that they don't give anything that isn't already filled but with a cheaper and faster to build unit. Find a fit, then balance him to work in that position. My personal favorite is to make him a mobile "factory" where he is a spellcaster that uses minerals to cast his spells. A kind of "uber reaver." Maybe even make it a factory upgrade where instead of building a thor, the Factory morphs into a thor and instead of producing units it produces drones and specialized ammo.
The biggest gripe i had with thors is that they are slow and so boring. They are like reavers without their entartaining factors.
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On December 04 2013 16:58 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 16:09 Eatme wrote:On December 04 2013 06:12 RaZorwire wrote:On December 04 2013 06:00 Eatme wrote:
I'd prefer some thor buff. It's prettymuch underused and therefor has potential for an interesting buff. I wouldn't mind something being done about Thors either, but buffing tanks seems more urgent since it would (hypothetically) allow Terrans to create tank lines that Protoss can't just break by balling up their units and a-moving. Forcing Protoss to be the multi-tasking harass-based race for once would be pretty cool, and tanks are better suited for that than Thors. Yeah thats why I didnt suggest how to buff thors. Plus me being a zerg player ofc. Someone should really make a testmap of the twoshot so we can try it out. Another interesting thing would be to nerf hardend shield a bit, maybe so it takes 15 damage instead. Just play around with it from that angle would be good. It's not like you can go roach vs a few immortals anyway. Thors dont need a buff, they need an honest to god redesign. They don't provide anything that 3-4 Marauders don't already provide. Imagine a job that a concept unit similar to a thor should fill that isn't already filled? Anti-Armor? Marauder. Anti-Light? Hellbat. Anti-Air? Marine. Long-Range anti-air? Viking. The problem with Thors is not that they are weak, the problem is that they don't give anything that isn't already filled but with a cheaper and faster to build unit. Find a fit, then balance him to work in that position. My personal favorite is to make him a mobile "factory" where he is a spellcaster that uses minerals to cast his spells. A kind of "uber reaver." Maybe even make it a factory upgrade where instead of building a thor, the Factory morphs into a thor and instead of producing units it produces drones and specialized ammo.
I like how bold this idea is. People said the same thing for the mothership unit for being worth its costs -- like have the mothership be a mobile pylon and shit. Doing something with the thor that gave it a mechanic that helped out mech in some way would be cool.
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On December 04 2013 17:20 tshi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 16:58 Thieving Magpie wrote:On December 04 2013 16:09 Eatme wrote:On December 04 2013 06:12 RaZorwire wrote:On December 04 2013 06:00 Eatme wrote:
I'd prefer some thor buff. It's prettymuch underused and therefor has potential for an interesting buff. I wouldn't mind something being done about Thors either, but buffing tanks seems more urgent since it would (hypothetically) allow Terrans to create tank lines that Protoss can't just break by balling up their units and a-moving. Forcing Protoss to be the multi-tasking harass-based race for once would be pretty cool, and tanks are better suited for that than Thors. Yeah thats why I didnt suggest how to buff thors. Plus me being a zerg player ofc. Someone should really make a testmap of the twoshot so we can try it out. Another interesting thing would be to nerf hardend shield a bit, maybe so it takes 15 damage instead. Just play around with it from that angle would be good. It's not like you can go roach vs a few immortals anyway. Thors dont need a buff, they need an honest to god redesign. They don't provide anything that 3-4 Marauders don't already provide. Imagine a job that a concept unit similar to a thor should fill that isn't already filled? Anti-Armor? Marauder. Anti-Light? Hellbat. Anti-Air? Marine. Long-Range anti-air? Viking. The problem with Thors is not that they are weak, the problem is that they don't give anything that isn't already filled but with a cheaper and faster to build unit. Find a fit, then balance him to work in that position. My personal favorite is to make him a mobile "factory" where he is a spellcaster that uses minerals to cast his spells. A kind of "uber reaver." Maybe even make it a factory upgrade where instead of building a thor, the Factory morphs into a thor and instead of producing units it produces drones and specialized ammo. I like how bold this idea is. People said the same thing for the mothership unit for being worth its costs -- like have the mothership be a mobile pylon and shit. Doing something with the thor that gave it a mechanic that helped out mech in some way would be cool.
That just sounds like too much fun for Blizzard to implement it.
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On December 04 2013 17:15 SheaR619 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 16:44 KaizoOnFire wrote:
i would say we also buff skytoss because its completely trash vs. bio Sky toss will never work anyways since you dont have a cheap mineral fodder. Mech is on the rope of working and it just need an extra push. It also distinctively different style from bio so if mech is viable without affecting bio then it good for the over all game for making the game more diverse. Think of mech as a race rather than some sort of unit composition because it play completely different from traditional bio and other race act completely different against it. Will skytoss be different from traditional protoss deathball? No, it will probably just be another slow deathball unit composition like collosus/HT because the core unit in sky toss are slow and therefore offer no real difference from traditional protoss. Making mech work is good for the overall game by making the game more different. And guess what, sky toss is actually pretty good against mech and could be a possible future meta if mech is viable.
why would you see it as a race? its just a techtree which has pros and cons just like everyething else. either you commit to it or not
you can play mech vs. terran and zerg and usually not vs. protoss just like you can play skytoss vs. toss and zerg but not vs. bio. why should they buff it even more, just play bio then in that matchup. i've never seen anyone playing skytoss vs. bio and there are reasons for it
btw, saying you can play skytoss vs mech is like saying you can play baneling vs. marines lol, like i said, all has pros and cons, thats the funny part of the game :-)
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Yeah I think by making mech viable vs Protoss (and thus incredibly efficient) you absolutely kill their macro/late game. I think you'd end up swapping the positions of Terran and Protoss by making Protoss the aggressor and Terran the defender. Then, you'll then end up with games looking similar to PvZ, where Protoss goes crazy on timing attacks/all-ins and if they make it to the late game, Terran would have to squander their lead and create situations that the Protoss can take advantage of...
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On December 04 2013 14:43 LaLuSh wrote:
I don't think you can make mech both viable and balanced in SC2, goody. Not without making the game incredibly boring and having it automatically nerfed 3-6 months later because of the community backlash.
I don't play the game anymore so I have no reason to be against mech or your style anymore.
This is my argument: Mech is a slow moving composition, the same sort of composition as Broodlord/Infestor. If you want to make a slow moving composition viable in an RTS game, you have to make the slow moving composition more efficient than the normal faster moving compositions.
We have one example in the history of SC2 where this was true for a composition: Broodlord/Infestor in 2011-2012.
Unfortunately, you know just as well as me that when an objectively superior composition exists in SC2, players tend to always go for the 200 max out before they want to fight army vs army. This is what every shitty broodlord/infestor patchzerg did in 2011-2012. They took 3 bases and rushed for 200 while camping behind static defenses because they knew their composition was superior (it wasn't critical to stop opponent from expanding to 4-5 bases).
This is the same as your strategy with Mech vs zerg and probably versus terran as well. You slowly take 3-4 bases and camp until you are close to 200 before you allow any action to take place on the map. The only problem for you is that mech isn't as strong as BL/Infestor used to be, so you don't have a bunch of zergs and protosses suiciding into you in the midgame like people used to do versus BL/Infestor.
Now... if Blizzard were to buff mech even more and make it a viable composition... that would mean mech would have to be a more cost efficient composition than everything else because mech is slow moving... and that would mean every terran would go for the slow, safe, 200 goody game before they risked any big engagement.
You would see such an explosion of whine everywhere that mech would only last a maximum 3 months before being nerfed again. Because if you make mech viable in SC2, that means you have simply created the equivalent of BL/Infestor for Terran.
This. I have nothing against goody, but as a player, and as someone who watch a lot of stream and competition, I would just stop Starcraft because Goody's game are so boring to watch. And then I think about the caster who will have to comment a Sim City game, and I feel sorry for them.
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Sounds good to me tbh.
On December 04 2013 17:45 Vanadiel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 14:43 LaLuSh wrote:
I don't think you can make mech both viable and balanced in SC2, goody. Not without making the game incredibly boring and having it automatically nerfed 3-6 months later because of the community backlash.
I don't play the game anymore so I have no reason to be against mech or your style anymore.
This is my argument: Mech is a slow moving composition, the same sort of composition as Broodlord/Infestor. If you want to make a slow moving composition viable in an RTS game, you have to make the slow moving composition more efficient than the normal faster moving compositions.
We have one example in the history of SC2 where this was true for a composition: Broodlord/Infestor in 2011-2012.
Unfortunately, you know just as well as me that when an objectively superior composition exists in SC2, players tend to always go for the 200 max out before they want to fight army vs army. This is what every shitty broodlord/infestor patchzerg did in 2011-2012. They took 3 bases and rushed for 200 while camping behind static defenses because they knew their composition was superior (it wasn't critical to stop opponent from expanding to 4-5 bases).
This is the same as your strategy with Mech vs zerg and probably versus terran as well. You slowly take 3-4 bases and camp until you are close to 200 before you allow any action to take place on the map. The only problem for you is that mech isn't as strong as BL/Infestor used to be, so you don't have a bunch of zergs and protosses suiciding into you in the midgame like people used to do versus BL/Infestor.
Now... if Blizzard were to buff mech even more and make it a viable composition... that would mean mech would have to be a more cost efficient composition than everything else because mech is slow moving... and that would mean every terran would go for the slow, safe, 200 goody game before they risked any big engagement.
You would see such an explosion of whine everywhere that mech would only last a maximum 3 months before being nerfed again. Because if you make mech viable in SC2, that means you have simply created the equivalent of BL/Infestor for Terran. This. I have nothing against goody, but as a player, and as someone who watch a lot of stream and competition, I would just stop Starcraft because Goody's game are so boring to watch. And then I think about the caster who will have to comment a Sim City game, and I feel sorry for them.
Mech needs a better and fun to watch harassment unit maybe...
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I just imagined what would it be like if Fantasy suggested mech TvZ buffs for BW. I think it would be exactly like this.
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On December 04 2013 17:50 Big-t wrote:Sounds good to me tbh. Show nested quote +On December 04 2013 17:45 Vanadiel wrote:On December 04 2013 14:43 LaLuSh wrote:
I don't think you can make mech both viable and balanced in SC2, goody. Not without making the game incredibly boring and having it automatically nerfed 3-6 months later because of the community backlash.
I don't play the game anymore so I have no reason to be against mech or your style anymore.
This is my argument: Mech is a slow moving composition, the same sort of composition as Broodlord/Infestor. If you want to make a slow moving composition viable in an RTS game, you have to make the slow moving composition more efficient than the normal faster moving compositions.
We have one example in the history of SC2 where this was true for a composition: Broodlord/Infestor in 2011-2012.
Unfortunately, you know just as well as me that when an objectively superior composition exists in SC2, players tend to always go for the 200 max out before they want to fight army vs army. This is what every shitty broodlord/infestor patchzerg did in 2011-2012. They took 3 bases and rushed for 200 while camping behind static defenses because they knew their composition was superior (it wasn't critical to stop opponent from expanding to 4-5 bases).
This is the same as your strategy with Mech vs zerg and probably versus terran as well. You slowly take 3-4 bases and camp until you are close to 200 before you allow any action to take place on the map. The only problem for you is that mech isn't as strong as BL/Infestor used to be, so you don't have a bunch of zergs and protosses suiciding into you in the midgame like people used to do versus BL/Infestor.
Now... if Blizzard were to buff mech even more and make it a viable composition... that would mean mech would have to be a more cost efficient composition than everything else because mech is slow moving... and that would mean every terran would go for the slow, safe, 200 goody game before they risked any big engagement.
You would see such an explosion of whine everywhere that mech would only last a maximum 3 months before being nerfed again. Because if you make mech viable in SC2, that means you have simply created the equivalent of BL/Infestor for Terran. This. I have nothing against goody, but as a player, and as someone who watch a lot of stream and competition, I would just stop Starcraft because Goody's game are so boring to watch. And then I think about the caster who will have to comment a Sim City game, and I feel sorry for them. Mech needs a better and fun to watch harassment unit maybe...
Hellions and Hellbats aren't good enough?
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EPT
