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On November 29 2013 06:56 mikkmagro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2013 05:15 Assirra wrote:On November 29 2013 03:10 mikkmagro wrote:On November 29 2013 00:37 ES.Genie wrote:On November 28 2013 13:18 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:On November 28 2013 08:46 Valikyr wrote:On November 28 2013 05:15 HeeroFX wrote:On November 28 2013 05:11 emanresU wrote:On November 28 2013 05:09 HeeroFX wrote:
well I wil probably stop watching SC 2 when Naniwa and Scarlett call it Because no one watched Brood War right? No i just don't have players I am interested in watching. I only care about events that have players I like to watch. That is resonable. I don't watch a TV show I don't like even if its suppose to be good. So the only or number one criteria for you to like a player is: Not a Korean. ? Seems borderline racist to me but hey the community sure aint gonna miss you when you're gone. Not racist. It's the hometown hero phenomenon. A lot of fans out there (like me) are too bad at the game to see the skill difference between foreigners and Koreans unless they are actually facing each other. So, since we can't see the godlike skill of the Koreans like others, we rally behind certain players. Like most people, we have a particular love for hometown heroes and underdogs, which leaves us with less fondness for the Koreans (one can only be a passionate fan of so many people at once). I find it odd that so many people in the thread don't recognize this. Stream viewership is considerably affected by foreigner presence so I would have thought there would be more people in that demographic posting here. Oh well. Ohhh that's why most European fans would cheer for a random American player over a Korean. I mean, it makes so much sense now, since America is like almost in the middle of Europe. I'm actually fairly sure Huk is my neighbour, so why would I cheer for one of those stupid Koreans that live so far away, right? Stop the excuses, it is borderline racist and if you can't see the difference between e.g. Huk and someone like Dear, you simply don't want to enjoy this game. I really really hope Koreans will dominate even more, so people like you will eventually leave the scene and the rest of us will finally will be able to watch this game in a non-racit, dramaless and hopefully way way less hateful and whiny atmosphere. Gogo Koreans, time to take out the trash. Isn't your last sentence also racist? Foreigners cheer for foreigners because they're underdogs. Racism has nothing to do with with it. Europeans and Americans like 'foreign Asians' as well...which is why Sen and the Chinese players have lots of support as well. Most foreigners also have their favourite foreigner, and their favourite Korean. His point is that the whole point is the "home town" nonsense does not make sense. These people don't support "the homwtown heroes" they cheer for one characteristic, being a non korean. It does not matter if they come from Europe, America, Asia, as long as they are not korean, they are qualified. Oh and that last statement is a simple fact proven over and over so don't even try to make a racist point out of that. dat logic. If a foreigner roots for a foreigner, its racism. If someone calls non-Koreans trash, it's not racism but fact. If you don't like people rooting for foreigners, or foreigners in general, just stick to watching GSL, GSTL and Proleague, and stop following foreign and international tournaments. You can't tell people what to like or what not to like. It's not racism it's preference and opinion. If it was the American, German, or Chinese scene which had such an over-bearing dominance over the scene, many would probably feel the same towards them. Stop being elitist and just accept that people have different preferences, and there are different fans. I've been a fan of mousesports and Fnatic long before SC2 was ever released, should I stop cheering for the players on my favourite teams because they're not the best? I don't care for most Koreans, because I don't watch Korean tournaments because they're at an impossible time, and nor do I have the time and patience for VODs, so I cheer for players who I've been following since WC3, and other players I see regularly in the European tournaments I watch. I dislike some foreigners and love a few Koreans from seeing them so lively at European events (JD, MC..I'd say StarDust but I like his character but not his playstyle) etc. Just deal with it that people like different things...
So instead of addressing his point you (once again) do a whole rant about raciscm. good job.
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This whole argument is kinda pointless. People aren't really racist, they just can relate more to foreigners and here it comes, cause foreigners speak english. I mean i care more for good games and "skill", but i can see why the translation stuff on the stage for example is kinda annoying and it creates the language barrier which is pretty big. There is a reason koreans who speak english have more fans most of the time.
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It's not whether you expect a foreigner to win a tournament.. it's more like whether you'd be really happy to be surprised about it..
And IDK about you sir (the OP/thread writer), but I don't see the point of all this.. 
And that's like MOSTLY case I'm really satisfied/happy of the foreign hope.. It's a good state to have a talent and still no results.. I don't see why would be "concerned" while in fact eSports is growing..
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Outside of Korea too - eSports is GROWING.. And here's why I think about it
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In 2013 we got players like Babyknight, Daishy, HerOMarinE, Welmu, and even MarineLord lately.. Like - we're soon to be in a position to make it happen where we all thought it was impossible to be - actually have a Foreigner TERRAN elite.. 
Perhaps NA doesn't seem to have quite a bit of young talents or future as say EU currently has, but pretty sure that there are some to be.. Speaking about it - expecting/hoping the two S-name players that are currently in Korea (or to be there I think) - State and Snute - to potentially going to shine in the near future.. at least a bit..
And yes - again - it wasn't about whether foreigner will win a major all-star-best player tournament.. It was about the quality of play..
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There are also other sports (in real life too) that one country really dominates, don't you agree ??
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Many countries (and by many here I think like maybe ALL of them, lol) haven't managed to beat US in basketball for like what - 10, 20, 50 years ?? - so --> should they post a thing like this ??
Like - if the rest of the world created a team and trained and created the strongest all-star team there can be - will they still be able to win over NBA from US ??, ofc - it will be oh-so-damn-close, but if they lose, should the rest of the world really mourn about it ?
If there was a Basketball tourney every two weeks, should the rest of the world be "concerned" about US winning all the time ??, ofc. the BB international stage is growing and for example Spain and Argentina are as close an all-star team nearly NBA quality as it gets, but yah - why have the need to specifically make a thread/concern/special-effort pointing about it.. ??
Wrote about the BB as a sport cause of analogy usage o.f.c., not to derail it..
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Reason to "react" like this directly..
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Honestly sir, i don't think you're helping, it feels like you're just making it be/feel worse than it actually is..
Rofl, like - when read the title is as almost my heart stopped man, it's like "judgement-day" title or sth.. And even more specifically - title sounded like ForGG left and returned to Korea about it and like some kind of a "prophecy" of all the other Koreans soon leaving.. ??
For a moment thought that ALL the Koreans will leave foreign regions.. And whether we want to admit or not - there are those who are just "taking" a spot of a potential foreigner, and they can either be "disliked" or be "sympathized" cause of potential charism in them to be (say like Duckdeok or Byul for ex.), BUT ALSO --> there are those who actually really CONTRIBUTE to the foreign scene, regardless of them being Korean.. And by Contribute, I really mean CONTRIBUTE PRETTY DAMN LARGE in a way like ForGG, Polt, and/or MC did..
So yah - it's not THAT bad that the competition has been "increased".. In fact I like that 2014 format wasn't implemented "right-of-the-bat", but we had like 1 full year to "establish" a group of "native koreans" region-wise.. And with the new changes just couldn't be better.. It's like a good place to start from and still make things count.. PLS - be optimistic about the scene.. The 2013 year was an "experiment" in some ways at the end when you think about it.. There are better days to come I think
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Hope I'm not much wrong about it
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As much as it is easy for me to write as a fan/spectator while players or those who work hard to be lose chances or opportunities cause of a higher competition than usual.. Hope the foreign players that are, and those who "are to be" don't mind about me thinking that despite really "cruel" - still 2013 was a good year for eSports in many ways to be.. Even if it was "too much", it's still a good viable "start" I think..
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Another "general" point/feel I think
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With 2013 being so "cruel" in terms of high-competition and 2014 to be a bit less uber-skill-competitive - I honestly think that Blizz did like the BEST POSSIBLE THING there could really be.. Now as is ->- the SC2 eSports scene got BOTH - HIGH-BURST-START and now also a chance/hope for new/more LOCAL HEROES to be born/made..
I honestly think that this was a really damn good way to found/start/promote it..
And I also think that it was probably your job to make people react to the title of it.. From which - judging by me for example - you seem to have succeeded..
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On November 29 2013 09:27 VArsovskiSC wrote:It's not whether you expect a foreigner to win a tournament.. it's more like whether you'd be really happy to be surprised about it.. And IDK about you sir (the OP/thread writer), but I don't see the point of all this.. And that's like MOSTLY case I'm really satisfied/happy of the foreign hope.. It's a good state to have a talent and still no results.. I don't see why would be "concerned" while in fact eSports is growing.. ================================================================ Outside of Korea too - eSports is GROWING.. And here's why I think about it ================================================================ In 2013 we got players like Babyknight, Daishy, HerOMarinE, Welmu, and even MarineLord lately.. Like - we're soon to be in a position to make it happen where we all thought it was impossible to be - actually have a Foreigner TERRAN elite.. Perhaps NA doesn't seem to have quite a bit of young talents or future as say EU currently has, but pretty sure that there are some to be.. Speaking about it - expecting/hoping the two S-name players that are currently in Korea (or to be there I think) - State and Snute - to potentially going to shine in the near future.. at least a bit.. And yes - again - it wasn't about whether foreigner will win a major all-star-best player tournament.. It was about the quality of play.. ================================================================ There are also other sports (in real life too) that one country really dominates, don't you agree ?? ================================================================ Many countries (and by many here I think like maybe ALL of them, lol) haven't managed to beat US in basketball for like what - 10, 20, 50 years ?? - so --> should they post a thing like this ?? Like - if the rest of the world created a team and trained and created the strongest all-star team there can be - will they still be able to win over NBA from US ??, ofc - it will be oh-so-damn-close, but if they lose, should the rest of the world really mourn about it ? If there was a Basketball tourney every two weeks, should the rest of the world be "concerned" about US winning all the time ??, ofc. the BB international stage is growing and for example Spain and Argentina are as close an all-star team nearly NBA quality as it gets, but yah - why have the need to specifically make a thread/concern/special-effort pointing about it.. ?? Wrote about the BB as a sport cause of analogy usage o.f.c., not to derail it.. ================================================================ Reason to "react" like this directly.. ================================================================ Honestly sir, i don't think you're helping, it feels like you're just making it be/feel worse than it actually is.. Rofl, like - when read the title is as almost my heart stopped man, it's like "judgement-day" title or sth.. And even more specifically - title sounded like ForGG left and returned to Korea about it and like some kind of a "prophecy" of all the other Koreans soon leaving.. ?? For a moment thought that ALL the Koreans will leave foreign regions.. And whether we want to admit or not - there are those who are just "taking" a spot of a potential foreigner, and they can either be "disliked" or be "sympathized" cause of potential charism in them to be (say like Duckdeok or Byul for ex.), BUT ALSO --> there are those who actually really CONTRIBUTE to the foreign scene, regardless of them being Korean.. And by Contribute, I really mean CONTRIBUTE PRETTY DAMN LARGE in a way like ForGG, Polt, and/or MC did.. So yah - it's not THAT bad that the competition has been "increased".. In fact I like that 2014 format wasn't implemented "right-of-the-bat", but we had like 1 full year to "establish" a group of "native koreans" region-wise.. And with the new changes just couldn't be better.. It's like a good place to start from and still make things count.. PLS - be optimistic about the scene.. The 2013 year was an "experiment" in some ways at the end when you think about it.. There are better days to come I think ================================================================ Hope I'm not much wrong about it ================================================================ As much as it is easy for me to write as a fan/spectator while players or those who work hard to be lose chances or opportunities cause of a higher competition than usual.. Hope the foreign players that are, and those who "are to be" don't mind about me thinking that despite really "cruel" - still 2013 was a good year for eSports in many ways to be.. Even if it was "too much", it's still a good viable "start" I think.. ================================================================ Another "general" point/feel I think ================================================================ With 2013 being so "cruel" in terms of high-competition and 2014 to be a bit less uber-skill-competitive - I honestly think that Blizz did like the BEST POSSIBLE THING there could really be.. Now as is ->- the SC2 eSports scene got BOTH - HIGH-BURST-START and now also a chance/hope for new/more LOCAL HEROES to be born/made.. I honestly think that this was a really damn good way to found/start/promote it.. And I also think that it was probably your job to make people react to the title of it.. From which - judging by me for example - you seem to have succeeded..
You realize that Snute is a European player playing in North America, right?
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On November 29 2013 07:47 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2013 06:56 mikkmagro wrote:On November 29 2013 05:15 Assirra wrote:On November 29 2013 03:10 mikkmagro wrote:On November 29 2013 00:37 ES.Genie wrote:On November 28 2013 13:18 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:On November 28 2013 08:46 Valikyr wrote:On November 28 2013 05:15 HeeroFX wrote:On November 28 2013 05:11 emanresU wrote:On November 28 2013 05:09 HeeroFX wrote:
well I wil probably stop watching SC 2 when Naniwa and Scarlett call it Because no one watched Brood War right? No i just don't have players I am interested in watching. I only care about events that have players I like to watch. That is resonable. I don't watch a TV show I don't like even if its suppose to be good. So the only or number one criteria for you to like a player is: Not a Korean. ? Seems borderline racist to me but hey the community sure aint gonna miss you when you're gone. Not racist. It's the hometown hero phenomenon. A lot of fans out there (like me) are too bad at the game to see the skill difference between foreigners and Koreans unless they are actually facing each other. So, since we can't see the godlike skill of the Koreans like others, we rally behind certain players. Like most people, we have a particular love for hometown heroes and underdogs, which leaves us with less fondness for the Koreans (one can only be a passionate fan of so many people at once). I find it odd that so many people in the thread don't recognize this. Stream viewership is considerably affected by foreigner presence so I would have thought there would be more people in that demographic posting here. Oh well. Ohhh that's why most European fans would cheer for a random American player over a Korean. I mean, it makes so much sense now, since America is like almost in the middle of Europe. I'm actually fairly sure Huk is my neighbour, so why would I cheer for one of those stupid Koreans that live so far away, right? Stop the excuses, it is borderline racist and if you can't see the difference between e.g. Huk and someone like Dear, you simply don't want to enjoy this game. I really really hope Koreans will dominate even more, so people like you will eventually leave the scene and the rest of us will finally will be able to watch this game in a non-racit, dramaless and hopefully way way less hateful and whiny atmosphere. Gogo Koreans, time to take out the trash. Isn't your last sentence also racist? Foreigners cheer for foreigners because they're underdogs. Racism has nothing to do with with it. Europeans and Americans like 'foreign Asians' as well...which is why Sen and the Chinese players have lots of support as well. Most foreigners also have their favourite foreigner, and their favourite Korean. His point is that the whole point is the "home town" nonsense does not make sense. These people don't support "the homwtown heroes" they cheer for one characteristic, being a non korean. It does not matter if they come from Europe, America, Asia, as long as they are not korean, they are qualified. Oh and that last statement is a simple fact proven over and over so don't even try to make a racist point out of that. dat logic. If a foreigner roots for a foreigner, its racism. If someone calls non-Koreans trash, it's not racism but fact. If you don't like people rooting for foreigners, or foreigners in general, just stick to watching GSL, GSTL and Proleague, and stop following foreign and international tournaments. You can't tell people what to like or what not to like. It's not racism it's preference and opinion. If it was the American, German, or Chinese scene which had such an over-bearing dominance over the scene, many would probably feel the same towards them. Stop being elitist and just accept that people have different preferences, and there are different fans. I've been a fan of mousesports and Fnatic long before SC2 was ever released, should I stop cheering for the players on my favourite teams because they're not the best? I don't care for most Koreans, because I don't watch Korean tournaments because they're at an impossible time, and nor do I have the time and patience for VODs, so I cheer for players who I've been following since WC3, and other players I see regularly in the European tournaments I watch. I dislike some foreigners and love a few Koreans from seeing them so lively at European events (JD, MC..I'd say StarDust but I like his character but not his playstyle) etc. Just deal with it that people like different things... So instead of addressing his point you (once again) do a whole rant about raciscm. good job.
What *IS* your point then? From what I've read, you're just angry that people don't cheer for Koreans. I've addressed that, you just have to read.
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On November 29 2013 11:29 Firestorm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2013 09:27 VArsovskiSC wrote:It's not whether you expect a foreigner to win a tournament.. it's more like whether you'd be really happy to be surprised about it.. And IDK about you sir (the OP/thread writer), but I don't see the point of all this.. And that's like MOSTLY case I'm really satisfied/happy of the foreign hope.. It's a good state to have a talent and still no results.. I don't see why would be "concerned" while in fact eSports is growing.. ================================================================ Outside of Korea too - eSports is GROWING.. And here's why I think about it ================================================================ In 2013 we got players like Babyknight, Daishy, HerOMarinE, Welmu, and even MarineLord lately.. Like - we're soon to be in a position to make it happen where we all thought it was impossible to be - actually have a Foreigner TERRAN elite.. Perhaps NA doesn't seem to have quite a bit of young talents or future as say EU currently has, but pretty sure that there are some to be.. Speaking about it - expecting/hoping the two S-name players that are currently in Korea (or to be there I think) - State and Snute - to potentially going to shine in the near future.. at least a bit.. And yes - again - it wasn't about whether foreigner will win a major all-star-best player tournament.. It was about the quality of play.. ================================================================ There are also other sports (in real life too) that one country really dominates, don't you agree ?? ================================================================ Many countries (and by many here I think like maybe ALL of them, lol) haven't managed to beat US in basketball for like what - 10, 20, 50 years ?? - so --> should they post a thing like this ?? Like - if the rest of the world created a team and trained and created the strongest all-star team there can be - will they still be able to win over NBA from US ??, ofc - it will be oh-so-damn-close, but if they lose, should the rest of the world really mourn about it ? If there was a Basketball tourney every two weeks, should the rest of the world be "concerned" about US winning all the time ??, ofc. the BB international stage is growing and for example Spain and Argentina are as close an all-star team nearly NBA quality as it gets, but yah - why have the need to specifically make a thread/concern/special-effort pointing about it.. ?? Wrote about the BB as a sport cause of analogy usage o.f.c., not to derail it.. ================================================================ Reason to "react" like this directly.. ================================================================ Honestly sir, i don't think you're helping, it feels like you're just making it be/feel worse than it actually is.. Rofl, like - when read the title is as almost my heart stopped man, it's like "judgement-day" title or sth.. And even more specifically - title sounded like ForGG left and returned to Korea about it and like some kind of a "prophecy" of all the other Koreans soon leaving.. ?? For a moment thought that ALL the Koreans will leave foreign regions.. And whether we want to admit or not - there are those who are just "taking" a spot of a potential foreigner, and they can either be "disliked" or be "sympathized" cause of potential charism in them to be (say like Duckdeok or Byul for ex.), BUT ALSO --> there are those who actually really CONTRIBUTE to the foreign scene, regardless of them being Korean.. And by Contribute, I really mean CONTRIBUTE PRETTY DAMN LARGE in a way like ForGG, Polt, and/or MC did.. So yah - it's not THAT bad that the competition has been "increased".. In fact I like that 2014 format wasn't implemented "right-of-the-bat", but we had like 1 full year to "establish" a group of "native koreans" region-wise.. And with the new changes just couldn't be better.. It's like a good place to start from and still make things count.. PLS - be optimistic about the scene.. The 2013 year was an "experiment" in some ways at the end when you think about it.. There are better days to come I think ================================================================ Hope I'm not much wrong about it ================================================================ As much as it is easy for me to write as a fan/spectator while players or those who work hard to be lose chances or opportunities cause of a higher competition than usual.. Hope the foreign players that are, and those who "are to be" don't mind about me thinking that despite really "cruel" - still 2013 was a good year for eSports in many ways to be.. Even if it was "too much", it's still a good viable "start" I think.. ================================================================ Another "general" point/feel I think ================================================================ With 2013 being so "cruel" in terms of high-competition and 2014 to be a bit less uber-skill-competitive - I honestly think that Blizz did like the BEST POSSIBLE THING there could really be.. Now as is ->- the SC2 eSports scene got BOTH - HIGH-BURST-START and now also a chance/hope for new/more LOCAL HEROES to be born/made.. I honestly think that this was a really damn good way to found/start/promote it.. And I also think that it was probably your job to make people react to the title of it.. From which - judging by me for example - you seem to have succeeded.. You realize that Snute is a European player playing in North America, right?
Is it the only thing you got from his post ? It's a damn fine post and he put time in it. I think most of this is spot on.
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On November 29 2013 09:27 VArsovskiSC wrote:[...] And IDK about you sir (the OP/thread writer), but I don't see the point of all this.. [...]
I think this discussion is way more relaxing than discussions about Bnet, WCS regionlock, design and whatever. TL just get prepared for chrismas, the time of rest and peace.
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On November 29 2013 15:59 mikkmagro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2013 07:47 Assirra wrote:On November 29 2013 06:56 mikkmagro wrote:On November 29 2013 05:15 Assirra wrote:On November 29 2013 03:10 mikkmagro wrote:On November 29 2013 00:37 ES.Genie wrote:On November 28 2013 13:18 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:On November 28 2013 08:46 Valikyr wrote:On November 28 2013 05:15 HeeroFX wrote:On November 28 2013 05:11 emanresU wrote:
[quote]
Because no one watched Brood War right? No i just don't have players I am interested in watching. I only care about events that have players I like to watch. That is resonable. I don't watch a TV show I don't like even if its suppose to be good. So the only or number one criteria for you to like a player is: Not a Korean. ? Seems borderline racist to me but hey the community sure aint gonna miss you when you're gone. Not racist. It's the hometown hero phenomenon. A lot of fans out there (like me) are too bad at the game to see the skill difference between foreigners and Koreans unless they are actually facing each other. So, since we can't see the godlike skill of the Koreans like others, we rally behind certain players. Like most people, we have a particular love for hometown heroes and underdogs, which leaves us with less fondness for the Koreans (one can only be a passionate fan of so many people at once). I find it odd that so many people in the thread don't recognize this. Stream viewership is considerably affected by foreigner presence so I would have thought there would be more people in that demographic posting here. Oh well. Ohhh that's why most European fans would cheer for a random American player over a Korean. I mean, it makes so much sense now, since America is like almost in the middle of Europe. I'm actually fairly sure Huk is my neighbour, so why would I cheer for one of those stupid Koreans that live so far away, right? Stop the excuses, it is borderline racist and if you can't see the difference between e.g. Huk and someone like Dear, you simply don't want to enjoy this game. I really really hope Koreans will dominate even more, so people like you will eventually leave the scene and the rest of us will finally will be able to watch this game in a non-racit, dramaless and hopefully way way less hateful and whiny atmosphere. Gogo Koreans, time to take out the trash. Isn't your last sentence also racist? Foreigners cheer for foreigners because they're underdogs. Racism has nothing to do with with it. Europeans and Americans like 'foreign Asians' as well...which is why Sen and the Chinese players have lots of support as well. Most foreigners also have their favourite foreigner, and their favourite Korean. His point is that the whole point is the "home town" nonsense does not make sense. These people don't support "the homwtown heroes" they cheer for one characteristic, being a non korean. It does not matter if they come from Europe, America, Asia, as long as they are not korean, they are qualified. Oh and that last statement is a simple fact proven over and over so don't even try to make a racist point out of that. dat logic. If a foreigner roots for a foreigner, its racism. If someone calls non-Koreans trash, it's not racism but fact. If you don't like people rooting for foreigners, or foreigners in general, just stick to watching GSL, GSTL and Proleague, and stop following foreign and international tournaments. You can't tell people what to like or what not to like. It's not racism it's preference and opinion. If it was the American, German, or Chinese scene which had such an over-bearing dominance over the scene, many would probably feel the same towards them. Stop being elitist and just accept that people have different preferences, and there are different fans. I've been a fan of mousesports and Fnatic long before SC2 was ever released, should I stop cheering for the players on my favourite teams because they're not the best? I don't care for most Koreans, because I don't watch Korean tournaments because they're at an impossible time, and nor do I have the time and patience for VODs, so I cheer for players who I've been following since WC3, and other players I see regularly in the European tournaments I watch. I dislike some foreigners and love a few Koreans from seeing them so lively at European events (JD, MC..I'd say StarDust but I like his character but not his playstyle) etc. Just deal with it that people like different things... So instead of addressing his point you (once again) do a whole rant about raciscm. good job. What *IS* your point then? From what I've read, you're just angry that people don't cheer for Koreans. I've addressed that, you just have to read.
That the whole hometown nonsense makes no sense since the only requirment for people to be called "a hometown hero" is simply being not a korean. i am not angry people dont cheer for koreans, i am sick of this lame hometown heroes excuse that makes absolutely no sense since i can relate as much to korean as an american.
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On November 29 2013 22:28 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2013 15:59 mikkmagro wrote:On November 29 2013 07:47 Assirra wrote:On November 29 2013 06:56 mikkmagro wrote:On November 29 2013 05:15 Assirra wrote:On November 29 2013 03:10 mikkmagro wrote:On November 29 2013 00:37 ES.Genie wrote:On November 28 2013 13:18 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:On November 28 2013 08:46 Valikyr wrote:On November 28 2013 05:15 HeeroFX wrote:
[quote]
No i just don't have players I am interested in watching. I only care about events that have players I like to watch. That is resonable. I don't watch a TV show I don't like even if its suppose to be good. So the only or number one criteria for you to like a player is: Not a Korean. ? Seems borderline racist to me but hey the community sure aint gonna miss you when you're gone. Not racist. It's the hometown hero phenomenon. A lot of fans out there (like me) are too bad at the game to see the skill difference between foreigners and Koreans unless they are actually facing each other. So, since we can't see the godlike skill of the Koreans like others, we rally behind certain players. Like most people, we have a particular love for hometown heroes and underdogs, which leaves us with less fondness for the Koreans (one can only be a passionate fan of so many people at once). I find it odd that so many people in the thread don't recognize this. Stream viewership is considerably affected by foreigner presence so I would have thought there would be more people in that demographic posting here. Oh well. Ohhh that's why most European fans would cheer for a random American player over a Korean. I mean, it makes so much sense now, since America is like almost in the middle of Europe. I'm actually fairly sure Huk is my neighbour, so why would I cheer for one of those stupid Koreans that live so far away, right? Stop the excuses, it is borderline racist and if you can't see the difference between e.g. Huk and someone like Dear, you simply don't want to enjoy this game. I really really hope Koreans will dominate even more, so people like you will eventually leave the scene and the rest of us will finally will be able to watch this game in a non-racit, dramaless and hopefully way way less hateful and whiny atmosphere. Gogo Koreans, time to take out the trash. Isn't your last sentence also racist? Foreigners cheer for foreigners because they're underdogs. Racism has nothing to do with with it. Europeans and Americans like 'foreign Asians' as well...which is why Sen and the Chinese players have lots of support as well. Most foreigners also have their favourite foreigner, and their favourite Korean. His point is that the whole point is the "home town" nonsense does not make sense. These people don't support "the homwtown heroes" they cheer for one characteristic, being a non korean. It does not matter if they come from Europe, America, Asia, as long as they are not korean, they are qualified. Oh and that last statement is a simple fact proven over and over so don't even try to make a racist point out of that. dat logic. If a foreigner roots for a foreigner, its racism. If someone calls non-Koreans trash, it's not racism but fact. If you don't like people rooting for foreigners, or foreigners in general, just stick to watching GSL, GSTL and Proleague, and stop following foreign and international tournaments. You can't tell people what to like or what not to like. It's not racism it's preference and opinion. If it was the American, German, or Chinese scene which had such an over-bearing dominance over the scene, many would probably feel the same towards them. Stop being elitist and just accept that people have different preferences, and there are different fans. I've been a fan of mousesports and Fnatic long before SC2 was ever released, should I stop cheering for the players on my favourite teams because they're not the best? I don't care for most Koreans, because I don't watch Korean tournaments because they're at an impossible time, and nor do I have the time and patience for VODs, so I cheer for players who I've been following since WC3, and other players I see regularly in the European tournaments I watch. I dislike some foreigners and love a few Koreans from seeing them so lively at European events (JD, MC..I'd say StarDust but I like his character but not his playstyle) etc. Just deal with it that people like different things... So instead of addressing his point you (once again) do a whole rant about raciscm. good job. What *IS* your point then? From what I've read, you're just angry that people don't cheer for Koreans. I've addressed that, you just have to read. That the whole hometown nonsense makes no sense since the only requirment for people to be called "a hometown hero" is simply being not a korean. i am not angry people dont cheer for koreans, i am sick of this lame hometown heroes excuse that makes absolutely no sense since i can relate as much to korean as an american.
He made the point that it isnt "just" racism either. He gave Sen as an example, which makes sense. Sen is quite popular in the western scene, even though he comes from Asia. It's not just racism, it has a lot to do with the fact that people root for the underdog too. Since threads like this one give the (rightful) impression that the Korean scene is the strongest in the world, many people generalize and seem to think that any foreigner-pro against a random Korean is always an uphill battle, making every win of a non-Korean player vs a Korean an event/a surprise. Which ofc is bs but keeps up the hype and is therefore a statement that is supported by the casters and organizations that live from viewerships.
It also becomes a lot easier to see Korean players as one big entity since their elite changes so much and since most of them are very polite/shy in their interviews. Players like MC who are more outgoing and win(/won) a lot also have a lot of non-Korean fans.
I still agree to you that the hometown excuse explains only a small part.
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On November 28 2013 05:31 NEEDZMOAR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 05:15 HeeroFX wrote:On November 28 2013 05:11 emanresU wrote:On November 28 2013 05:09 HeeroFX wrote:
well I wil probably stop watching SC 2 when Naniwa and Scarlett call it Because no one watched Brood War right? No i just don't have players I am interested in watching. I only care about events that have players I like to watch. That is resonable. I don't watch a TV show I don't like even if its suppose to be good. I dont get it, if you dont care about watching great players perform, but only about nationality (please correct me if im wrong but thats the impression youre giving) how can you even enjoy watching sc2 in the first place? Sure koreans are more dominating than ever but at the same time the quality of the games and the playerskills are better than ever before. sc2 is getting more and more beautiful for each week that goes by, and anyone whos actually a fan of the game would agree with this.
The level is great but i need the feel of competition.. and to me it doesnt matter if one or the other Korean wins.. so tourney with only korean are less interesting then mixed tourneys atleast imo. therefore it would be great if the foreigners keep up with the koreans so more poeple will like to watch the game(this also bring more popularity in foereigners country so more money so a higher level everywhere)
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On November 29 2013 03:18 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2013 20:46 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 28 2013 05:33 farvacola wrote:On November 28 2013 05:31 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 28 2013 05:15 HeeroFX wrote:On November 28 2013 05:11 emanresU wrote:On November 28 2013 05:09 HeeroFX wrote:
well I wil probably stop watching SC 2 when Naniwa and Scarlett call it Because no one watched Brood War right? No i just don't have players I am interested in watching. I only care about events that have players I like to watch. That is resonable. I don't watch a TV show I don't like even if its suppose to be good. sc2 is getting more and more beautiful for each week that goes by, and anyone whos actually a fan of the game would agree with this. No. There are many fans of the game who do not agree. no, those arent fans of sc2 even if they like to call themselves that. People who tell others how they should be fans are pathetic and small minded.
Fanboys- cheer for specific players
Fan of Starcraft- cheer for better meta, stronger micro, and impeccable macro
Is that clear enough for your bigoted mind to grasp?
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The problem really is that the Korean scene cannot support itself anymore. It is no comparison to BW. Apart from a few Kespa teams left basically any other team is dependent on the EU and US. I regard that as a tough situation for the future because Koreans need foreign viewers and foreign viewers need foreign players.
Maybe the Koreans should do more to help foreign players come and stay in Korea.
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On November 30 2013 03:16 Cattlecruiser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2013 03:18 farvacola wrote:On November 28 2013 20:46 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 28 2013 05:33 farvacola wrote:On November 28 2013 05:31 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 28 2013 05:15 HeeroFX wrote:On November 28 2013 05:11 emanresU wrote:On November 28 2013 05:09 HeeroFX wrote:
well I wil probably stop watching SC 2 when Naniwa and Scarlett call it Because no one watched Brood War right? No i just don't have players I am interested in watching. I only care about events that have players I like to watch. That is resonable. I don't watch a TV show I don't like even if its suppose to be good. sc2 is getting more and more beautiful for each week that goes by, and anyone whos actually a fan of the game would agree with this. No. There are many fans of the game who do not agree. no, those arent fans of sc2 even if they like to call themselves that. People who tell others how they should be fans are pathetic and small minded. Fanboys- cheer for specific players Fan of Starcraft- cheer for better meta, stronger micro, and impeccable macro Is that clear enough for your bigoted mind to grasp?
People who tell others how they should be fans are pathetic and small minded. Is that clear enough for your bigoted mind to grasp?
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1019 Posts
On November 29 2013 03:10 mikkmagro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2013 00:37 ES.Genie wrote:On November 28 2013 13:18 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:On November 28 2013 08:46 Valikyr wrote:On November 28 2013 05:15 HeeroFX wrote:On November 28 2013 05:11 emanresU wrote:On November 28 2013 05:09 HeeroFX wrote:
well I wil probably stop watching SC 2 when Naniwa and Scarlett call it Because no one watched Brood War right? No i just don't have players I am interested in watching. I only care about events that have players I like to watch. That is resonable. I don't watch a TV show I don't like even if its suppose to be good. So the only or number one criteria for you to like a player is: Not a Korean. ? Seems borderline racist to me but hey the community sure aint gonna miss you when you're gone. Not racist. It's the hometown hero phenomenon. A lot of fans out there (like me) are too bad at the game to see the skill difference between foreigners and Koreans unless they are actually facing each other. So, since we can't see the godlike skill of the Koreans like others, we rally behind certain players. Like most people, we have a particular love for hometown heroes and underdogs, which leaves us with less fondness for the Koreans (one can only be a passionate fan of so many people at once). I find it odd that so many people in the thread don't recognize this. Stream viewership is considerably affected by foreigner presence so I would have thought there would be more people in that demographic posting here. Oh well. Ohhh that's why most European fans would cheer for a random American player over a Korean. I mean, it makes so much sense now, since America is like almost in the middle of Europe. I'm actually fairly sure Huk is my neighbour, so why would I cheer for one of those stupid Koreans that live so far away, right? Stop the excuses, it is borderline racist and if you can't see the difference between e.g. Huk and someone like Dear, you simply don't want to enjoy this game. I really really hope Koreans will dominate even more, so people like you will eventually leave the scene and the rest of us will finally will be able to watch this game in a non-racit, dramaless and hopefully way way less hateful and whiny atmosphere. Gogo Koreans, time to take out the trash. Isn't your last sentence also racist? Foreigners cheer for foreigners because they're underdogs. Racism has nothing to do with with it. Europeans and Americans like 'foreign Asians' as well...which is why Sen and the Chinese players have lots of support as well. Most foreigners also have their favourite foreigner, and their favourite Korean.
No, ES genie hit it spot on. If you have ever been on the receiving end of racism, you'll know that reasons like "hometown support phenomenon" are bullshit excuses for being borderline racist. It's called dog-whistle racism, when people act passive-aggressive-like when it comes to the subject and then vehemently deny they are racist. My favorite is when they say retarded things like "I have a lot of black/asian/hispanic friends so I'm not racist".
I have no doubt that there are some american/european fans that are more than just mildly annoyed that koreans are destroying foreigners. Skill is skill no matter what ethnicity the person behind it is. If the most skilled people are korean, whiny drama and "region-lock" bullshit that people are trying to implement won't ever reverse that fact.
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Contrary to what many in this thread think, not liking BET does not mean that you don't like black people or are racist.
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nice read.
just one question about the last paragraph... did Socke and Welmu merge into one person?
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A very melodramatic post. This year has had amazing starcraft and championships that were interesting showing great skill with both foreigners and koreans involved. I'm really sick of this korean vs foreigner mentality. I want to see good games from interesting players. Now more then ever the koreans are showing great personality and great games. I think it also minimizes how great naniwa and scarlett really did this year just because they didn't take 1rst place.
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On November 30 2013 04:02 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2013 03:16 Cattlecruiser wrote:On November 29 2013 03:18 farvacola wrote:On November 28 2013 20:46 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 28 2013 05:33 farvacola wrote:On November 28 2013 05:31 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 28 2013 05:15 HeeroFX wrote:On November 28 2013 05:11 emanresU wrote:On November 28 2013 05:09 HeeroFX wrote:
well I wil probably stop watching SC 2 when Naniwa and Scarlett call it Because no one watched Brood War right? No i just don't have players I am interested in watching. I only care about events that have players I like to watch. That is resonable. I don't watch a TV show I don't like even if its suppose to be good. sc2 is getting more and more beautiful for each week that goes by, and anyone whos actually a fan of the game would agree with this. No. There are many fans of the game who do not agree. no, those arent fans of sc2 even if they like to call themselves that. People who tell others how they should be fans are pathetic and small minded. Fanboys- cheer for specific players Fan of Starcraft- cheer for better meta, stronger micro, and impeccable macro Is that clear enough for your bigoted mind to grasp? People who tell others how they should be fans are pathetic and small minded. Is that clear enough for your bigoted mind to grasp?
Lol. You're a joke.
Sorry Koreans keep crushing your fanboy crush.
Maybe you'll find someone else to fantasize about.
Also, I'm sure you don't understand the definition of a bigot.
Read a book kid.
User was banned for this post.
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On November 30 2013 08:05 Cattlecruiser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2013 04:02 farvacola wrote:On November 30 2013 03:16 Cattlecruiser wrote:On November 29 2013 03:18 farvacola wrote:On November 28 2013 20:46 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 28 2013 05:33 farvacola wrote:On November 28 2013 05:31 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 28 2013 05:15 HeeroFX wrote:On November 28 2013 05:11 emanresU wrote:On November 28 2013 05:09 HeeroFX wrote:
well I wil probably stop watching SC 2 when Naniwa and Scarlett call it Because no one watched Brood War right? No i just don't have players I am interested in watching. I only care about events that have players I like to watch. That is resonable. I don't watch a TV show I don't like even if its suppose to be good. sc2 is getting more and more beautiful for each week that goes by, and anyone whos actually a fan of the game would agree with this. No. There are many fans of the game who do not agree. no, those arent fans of sc2 even if they like to call themselves that. People who tell others how they should be fans are pathetic and small minded. Fanboys- cheer for specific players Fan of Starcraft- cheer for better meta, stronger micro, and impeccable macro Is that clear enough for your bigoted mind to grasp? People who tell others how they should be fans are pathetic and small minded. Is that clear enough for your bigoted mind to grasp? Lol. You're a joke. Sorry Koreans keep crushing your fanboy crush. Maybe you'll find someone else to fantasize about. Also, I'm sure you don't understand the definition of a bigot. Read a book kid.
I never even said which players I like. So while I go ahead and read books, why don't you read the posts you're replying to.
I am a beautiful goat btw.
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On November 30 2013 08:12 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2013 08:05 Cattlecruiser wrote:On November 30 2013 04:02 farvacola wrote:On November 30 2013 03:16 Cattlecruiser wrote:On November 29 2013 03:18 farvacola wrote:On November 28 2013 20:46 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 28 2013 05:33 farvacola wrote:On November 28 2013 05:31 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 28 2013 05:15 HeeroFX wrote:On November 28 2013 05:11 emanresU wrote:
[quote]
Because no one watched Brood War right? No i just don't have players I am interested in watching. I only care about events that have players I like to watch. That is resonable. I don't watch a TV show I don't like even if its suppose to be good. sc2 is getting more and more beautiful for each week that goes by, and anyone whos actually a fan of the game would agree with this. No. There are many fans of the game who do not agree. no, those arent fans of sc2 even if they like to call themselves that. People who tell others how they should be fans are pathetic and small minded. Fanboys- cheer for specific players Fan of Starcraft- cheer for better meta, stronger micro, and impeccable macro Is that clear enough for your bigoted mind to grasp? People who tell others how they should be fans are pathetic and small minded. Is that clear enough for your bigoted mind to grasp? Lol. You're a joke. Sorry Koreans keep crushing your fanboy crush. Maybe you'll find someone else to fantasize about. Also, I'm sure you don't understand the definition of a bigot. Read a book kid. I never even said which players I like. So while I go ahead and read books, why don't you read the posts you're replying to. I am a beautiful goat btw.
Lol, I tried...
Keep building your TL resume buddy, it'll land you a great job someday.
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EPT
