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On November 10 2013 19:40 HooiFork wrote:
Im so disappointed in the people here on the forums that flame sOs...
Saying this series was boring and such. Your really undermining the epicness of this finals.
Every game was totally different. Just for context, im a zerg, and wouldnt have minded JD winning, but sOs just did the mindgames perfectly.
ZvP used to be my most boring MU. Just cause of the same style every time. Now one person comes up this year and showcases every new build in excistance, from voidray zealot PvZ to templar chargelot in PvT. And you call him a boring cheeser. WTF is wrong with you guys?
Furthermore saying he stole the title. i dont know but he only beat champions on his way to the finals, with only 3-0 or 3-1. The series with bomber wasnt even close either, and not because of bomber's law, but just because sOs outplayed him hard.
starting 2-2, charge And storm on derelict watcher while only have 2 zealots and a sentry? Balls of steel man.
sOs didnt just beat jaedong, he beat the meta in all matchups, and not just, but he Crushed the meta.
This guy is the most deserving champion of this year, in the most appealing tournament of this year.
Noone else wouldve been a better champ then sOs if you spealk about deserving it.
Like it or not. sOs might've crushed all your fanboi dreams, but he is just the best player of 2013. Deal with it and give him the credit he deserves.
Or do you prefer to act like a 12yo kid who's candy got taken away ?
If yes. i understand why u cant deal with sOs winning cause apparently you cant seem to figure how brilliant he actually is.
hmmm, actually Charge-Lot-Archon was invented by (believed it or not) MVPFinale - i.e. - duckdeok like 3 years ago.. Before that Templars were used only for Storm or storm-warp-ins cause of the Khaydarin amulet.. He was the first one to use Templars in PvT after Khaydarin removal the way we see them used today.. PvT hasn't changed since WoL almost at all (with the exception of Photon-overcharge and Medivac boost - i.e. - more drops - it's mostly the same)
Though I agree with the rest of it - It was sOs first that used Voidrays or at least VoidRay/Storm in PvZ instead of Colossi, which served Naniwa well.. 
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
Congrats sOs. I wanted the dong to win but alas you were the better player.
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sOs is the king of Protoss!
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sos played really good, he deserved the win. Too bad JD seems to tilt in all his finals.
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sOs played amazing. I haz a sad, but JD got outplayed. It's good to see he's bounced back already.
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I foresaw this problem a long time ago. jaedong was the "people's champion", but honestly the guy has done very very well and second place is still a great achievement. of course, that makes Shy the supreme master of sc2, except nobody thinks so because of the way he won. Still, there's probably no excuse to NOT expect cheese from him if you have studied him at all.
The trouble is that Shy is not a very popular player with a consistent string of results. He's probably about average in terms of fanbase. He's brilliant but irregular, and in this tournament he was the former. Of course I also think he's actually a very innovative player and deserving of the title, but that isn't really the point.
The point is that this "grand final" answered no questions. No one thinks Shy isn't unbeatable, least of all me. He doesn't have the "aura" of invincibility or the statistics that elevate him to a S-class player. In fact many people still think Dear is better than him. So what's the point of winning (other than cash goodies) if people won't even acknowledge you as the best? You will never become a legend like that.
Either people have to acknowledge him as THE BEST player of recent times (i hesitate to use the bonjwa term, but really that is what people are looking for), or we will have to find a new way of running this thing.
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Wow, that was impressive play by sOs, sadly for Jeadong he was just playing better. In my opinion he should even had won game 3, but he didn't played well in that one, not scouting the mutas and having overmins almost the entire game.
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On November 10 2013 20:04 shadymmj wrote:
I foresaw this problem a long time ago. jaedong was the "people's champion", but honestly the guy has done very very well and second place is still a great achievement. of course, that makes Shy the supreme master of sc2, except nobody thinks so because of the way he won. Still, there's probably no excuse to NOT expect cheese from him if you have studied him at all.
The trouble is that Shy is not a very popular player with a consistent string of results. He's probably about average in terms of fanbase. He's brilliant but irregular, and in this tournament he was the former. Of course I also think he's actually a very innovative player and deserving of the title, but that isn't really the point.
The point is that this "grand final" answered no questions. No one thinks Shy isn't unbeatable, least of all me. He doesn't have the "aura" of invincibility or the statistics that elevate him to a S-class player. In fact many people still think Dear is better than him. So what's the point of winning (other than cash goodies) if people won't even acknowledge you as the best? You will never become a legend like that.
Either people have to acknowledge him as THE BEST player of recent times (i hesitate to use the bonjwa term, but really that is what people are looking for), or we will have to find a new way of running this thing.
Just going to say, that there has only ever been a small handful of champions that won and people thought of them as unbeatable at that time.
If Jaedong had won, he wouldn't be looked at as a bonjwa. Or the best.
Dear was probably the only player attending that people might have classed as unbeatable if he had won.
As with all tournaments, sos was the best today, on the day.
I'd love to meet someone who doesn't think he's a S-class player. And isn't just an incredibly biased JD fan.
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On November 10 2013 19:26 MichaelDonovan wrote:
Can we just talk about how great the production value for this tournament was? Aside from the mic feedback problem on day 1 it felt like something you would see on ESPN or something. Really cool stuff. Like the graphics they threw up on the screen with the pictures of the casters who were talking at the time. Just a bunch of little stuff like that that made it look super polished.
You seem to be forgetting the way the show ended by us getting no real comments by the analysts. Also I missed the whole sos - bomber match due to lag. Low mid high source had lag every 3-4 seconds. This was unacceptable. It has never happened before that severely. I noticed in the chat that there were people having the same problem.
I hope Artosis does a whole show about the finals soon.
Edit: The first person view idea was nice but the resolution was disgusting - very low and stretched.
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The LR thread yesterday was amazingly funny. This thread only carries 0,1% of the sOs hate and JD tears. Oh boy oh boy.
Congratulations to sOs.
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sOs should nick "The Puppeteer" or something... Those mind games were on a whole new level.
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On November 10 2013 20:25 alphaproxy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 19:26 MichaelDonovan wrote:
Can we just talk about how great the production value for this tournament was? Aside from the mic feedback problem on day 1 it felt like something you would see on ESPN or something. Really cool stuff. Like the graphics they threw up on the screen with the pictures of the casters who were talking at the time. Just a bunch of little stuff like that that made it look super polished. You seem to be forgetting the way the show ended by us getting no real comments by the analysts. Also I missed the whole sos - bomber match due to lag. Low mid high source had lag every 3-4 seconds. This was unacceptable. It has never happened before that severely. I noticed in the chat that there were people having the same problem. I hope Artosis does a whole show about the finals soon. Edit: The first person view idea was nice but the resolution was disgusting - very low and stretched.
Oh you mean the Innkeeper's Invitational finals that Artosis won? 
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On November 10 2013 13:15 dinosrwar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 12:50 SnuggleZhenya wrote:On November 10 2013 12:47 Plexa wrote:On November 10 2013 12:46 SnuggleZhenya wrote:On November 10 2013 12:09 StarStruck wrote:
Why because several really good Protoss players won by a convincing score in the finals? Look guys like Dear and sHy are doing some really special things with the race. Heck a lot of those games weren't even lopsided. Because a disproportionate number of PvZ games just seem lack drama. They often come down to exactly one important moment, which you can see minutes in advance, and often time the winner of that moment is pretty obvious from the spectator standpoint before it actually happens. Compared to the much more back and forth games we see in almost every other matchup, PvZ just doesn't seem to produce games which are interesting to watch. Occasionally you get one. Games 1 and 3 beg to differ. If 2 out of 5 games are interesting, that's not a point against my argument. Cause timing attacks and all-ins only happen in PvZ ... right ...
Ladder games aside... (i once wrote down how much i get cheesed in ladder, and wrote a statistics for race or country the player comes from (asking during start of the game), which brought up very interesting insides about the "SC2 culture" that is different in every country and also about the races. Funny thing about that is, if I know the race and the origin of the player, in 90% I can tell what he/she is up to without scouting  )... I am really curious how many P/T/Z games were start of by a cheese or allin, ordered by race (and defining what cheese is). It really feels like, for each race, you have to have a different mindset and one race is more "sneaky" (not saying cheesy here) then others.
Thank god the end of the WoL days has passed and we don't see a Immortal allin in 2 out of 3 PvZ games, but I still hope we see more straight up-games, with constant back and forth and battling and so on...
Like the good old TvZ days
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sOs isn't faceless in the sense that his playstyle is generic or that he's some unknown Korean. Maybe he hasn't said anything as flamboyant as MC or been a character of note like JD, but sOs has been developing entirely new playstyles and did some amazing builds, creative attacks, etc. The finals was a showcase of that, not "Protoss cheese umg lolz." His VR/Zealot styles comes in many varieties and inspired entirely new ways of playing PvZ at the start of Hots to today.
sOs is a genius and he doesn't deserve people making up some story about him being "just another Korean."
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On November 10 2013 21:05 Heartland wrote:
sOs isn't faceless in the sense that his playstyle is generic or that he's some unknown Korean. Maybe he hasn't said anything as flamboyant as MC or been a character of note like JD, but sOs has been developing entirely new playstyles and did some amazing builds, creative attacks, etc. The finals was a showcase of that, not "Protoss cheese umg lolz." His VR/Zealot styles comes in many varieties and inspired entirely new ways of playing PvZ at the start of Hots to today.
sOs is a genius and he doesn't deserve people making up some story about him being "just another Korean."
sOs strategy was probably one of the best ever seen from Protoss.However he has to prove himself further in order not to remain faceless.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On November 10 2013 20:16 bittman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 20:04 shadymmj wrote:
I foresaw this problem a long time ago. jaedong was the "people's champion", but honestly the guy has done very very well and second place is still a great achievement. of course, that makes Shy the supreme master of sc2, except nobody thinks so because of the way he won. Still, there's probably no excuse to NOT expect cheese from him if you have studied him at all.
The trouble is that Shy is not a very popular player with a consistent string of results. He's probably about average in terms of fanbase. He's brilliant but irregular, and in this tournament he was the former. Of course I also think he's actually a very innovative player and deserving of the title, but that isn't really the point.
The point is that this "grand final" answered no questions. No one thinks Shy isn't unbeatable, least of all me. He doesn't have the "aura" of invincibility or the statistics that elevate him to a S-class player. In fact many people still think Dear is better than him. So what's the point of winning (other than cash goodies) if people won't even acknowledge you as the best? You will never become a legend like that.
Either people have to acknowledge him as THE BEST player of recent times (i hesitate to use the bonjwa term, but really that is what people are looking for), or we will have to find a new way of running this thing. Just going to say, that there has only ever been a small handful of champions that won and people thought of them as unbeatable at that time. If Jaedong had won, he wouldn't be looked at as a bonjwa. Or the best. Dear was probably the only player attending that people might have classed as unbeatable if he had won. As with all tournaments, sos was the best today, on the day. I'd love to meet someone who doesn't think he's a S-class player. And isn't just an incredibly biased JD fan.
Yeah, that was a weird post you replied to there. Because SC2 is unique in that the perceived "best" player doesn't always win a knock out tournament? Nope...
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On November 10 2013 16:41 lichter wrote:
Of all the Protoss to hate, why hate the strangest wackiest most interesting one? You guys are chumps
Also I win for writing his hype bwa ha ha
Totally agreed. I don't find protoss play interesting at all with the exception of sOs. And if somebody had to take the tournament instead of Jaedong, I was hoping it would be him from the start. Didn't expect them to meet in the finals though.
I will say that his wins over Jaedong didn't highlight his style of play that won me over in the past. Take game 2, for example. Really great work with the phoenixes--even brutalizing the corrupters with them--but that cool play isn't what won the game. He could have closed it out any number of ways after the successful cannon rush.
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Nice recap! GGs, Grats sOs. Still a huge success for Jaedong and it's only a matter of time, there is still DH .
He doesn't givev up up:
Jaedong @EGJaedong 9h
Do you know my Broodwar id? My id was "Neverdie Jaedong" It means Never ever die Jaedong!!!Don't forget. The Tyrant will be back soon!
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sOs so good mind games. Poor Jaedong, he actually played scary good in his beast mode.
I'm a zergie, but I can't hate on sOs for making stuff interesting with his wackiness. So good. Even the cannon rushes were stupid good mind games.
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I don't know the cannon rush thing kinda really cought JD off guard, cost him game 2 and surely had psychological effects because he also lost to it (or rather the follow-up) in game 1. Actually I couldn't care less not playing this game for months and only watching the big tourneys for entertainment, but watching JD lately made me think he is the best. Did you see the 1st person view? Man that's just unreal. If you count milliseconds he's probably faster than anyone out there. No wonder that he was sweating and breathing so hard.
Anyway, for all the time nothing has changed. Why do people build Zerglings vs Zealots? A Roach Warren costs like nothing and a few roaches could easily kill a cannon. Also you could use them to 'knock' at the Toss door and prevent them from expanding and they can deal with incoming Zealots like in game 4 much better than lings. That last game has shown once again the worst part of starcraft 2, it's fragility. The zealot immortal all-in is so strong that it wins easily if it catches the opponent off-guard. If it doesn't, you lost. You can force very short games. A minor mistake can quickly decide games, which makes it more a question of mechanics than strategy who wins. If it was a real strategic match, like eg chess that people often claim it to be, the matches wouldn't be over so quickly a lot of the time.
I still believe lategame Toss is OP as there was a discussion about this forever. You cannot match the firepower of Archon/Colossus/Immortal/High Templar(Storm) + Zealots as tanks. Terran has Ghosts but Zerg is pretty fucked :/ Everyone goes baserace vs Toss is that really the intention of a good match? Sometimes Zerg overwhelms Toss but that is usually midgame when they explode in supply. Certainly the matchup is not balanced in every phase evenly.
Nontheless sos played extremely well. The cannon rush thing was kinda annoying though. They should increase the space behind the minerals to make it more expensive and less of a strong tactic.
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EPT
