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On November 10 2013 01:48 Falling wrote:Well. That is a very frustrating response from David Kim and demonstrably and entirely untrue. It took me a long time to understand how the chinese triangle worked with mutalisk micro and to this day I still can't execute it properly. However. That didn't stop me from being awed the first time I saw pro's pick off scourge after scourge rather than seeing scourge immediately explode into the mutalisks. Knowing the mechanics of how the micro operates is entirely unnecessary to enjoy this sort of micro because it inherently visual. That's all it is. There is no hidden micro- the unit moves back and forth, no tricky spells, behind the scene buffs, etc. Just moving in and out, moving at top speed and picking off targets. All you need to know how the unit normally operates when just clicked into battle with normal good positioning and spread and then you see moving shot micro. And you are like, what the heck? How did they even do that. I know those units normally operate and this is sooooo crazy. That's exciting. That's cool. And that's just as much for casuals as for pros. We also have casters who can explain how the micro works. And it is exactly the sort of micro that makes a casual want to go out and try it out. 
Another thing about deep micro is that it would create stars. People who are better than everyone else. Have you compared BW power rank with SC2 power rank? In BW we had true powerful players who were massively better than the others (like JD in zvz with his muta micro) - in sc2 they tried to make a couple of rankings, found out that all the top players have the same power and then they stopped. Crowds love stars. In a playingfield where we have 20 potential winners they can only identify with BM players and koreans who try to speak English.
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On November 10 2013 19:44 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 19:40 papalion wrote:On November 10 2013 19:02 Elldar wrote:
If it is anything you should take away after 46 pages is that blizzard could change certain numbers in their code which improve the gameplay and that dk does not understand this. Lastly: BREAKING NEWS!!! BW IS STILL PLAYABLE. The newer ATI drivers make BW unplayable actually Unless ati or Blizzard do something about it, converting SC2 into BW is really the only solution left.
It's possible to play BW on Win 7 with an AMD/ ATI card.
Launch the game in window mode with a "doubled- sized" window and a lock your mouse in it.
You find those options in the ICCUP- launcher or mc64launcher.
Play 5 games and you're okay with it!
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On November 10 2013 20:42 zokker13 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 19:44 Sapphire.lux wrote:On November 10 2013 19:40 papalion wrote:On November 10 2013 19:02 Elldar wrote:
If it is anything you should take away after 46 pages is that blizzard could change certain numbers in their code which improve the gameplay and that dk does not understand this. Lastly: BREAKING NEWS!!! BW IS STILL PLAYABLE. The newer ATI drivers make BW unplayable actually Unless ati or Blizzard do something about it, converting SC2 into BW is really the only solution left. It's possible to play BW on Win 7 with an AMD/ ATI card. Launch the game in window mode with a "doubled- sized" window and a lock your mouse in it. You find those options in the ICCUP- launcher or mc64launcher. Play 5 games and you're okay with it!
I'll try that, thanks!
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On November 10 2013 19:40 papalion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 19:02 Elldar wrote:
If it is anything you should take away after 46 pages is that blizzard could change certain numbers in their code which improve the gameplay and that dk does not understand this. Sorry, dear people, but since reading all of this whining, written by crackpots, wannabe game designers, pathological nostalgics, and shit storm addicts, I lost all respect to people who say that even one thing has to be changed in SC2.
Cool story bro.
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Northern Ireland23732 Posts
On November 10 2013 19:40 papalion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 19:02 Elldar wrote:
If it is anything you should take away after 46 pages is that blizzard could change certain numbers in their code which improve the gameplay and that dk does not understand this. Classic. "I know what has to be changed to make SC2's popularity shoot through the roof.", lol This so-called well written OP really says that that Blizzard has to throw their game completely over. It is not at all likely that those "proposals" can be implemented with the editor blizzard uses. Sorry, dear people, but since reading all of this whining, written by crackpots, wannabe game designers, pathological nostalgics, and shit storm addicts, I lost all respect to people who say that even one thing has to be changed in SC2. To Day9: He says he likes Frisbee over Baseball. Yeah. Um. The Major League Frisbee is so popular, more than MLB. Second, a guy that says he does not like the game should not be invited to the biggest SC2 event of the year. The problem is not an amount of wrongly set "certain numbers in their code". What is wrong with SC2 is a small, but very loud part of the community, people who in truth have NO intent to make anything better, but only to show off how much smarter they are than David Kim. Oh yes, David Kim, he is not to envy. The sad part is that the rare cases of constructive criticism completely get lost besides those threads. Lastly: BREAKING NEWS!!! BW IS STILL PLAYABLE. Go install it and play it, but please shut up about SC2. NO ONE wants to know your opinion, except yourself. I hope TL will undertake the next step and either ban all SC2 whiners or make a special forum for them, moving all threads about how "bad" and "flawed" SC2 is there. I would call it the cesspool.
You are a grade A myopic if you think there is nothing that can be improved in SC2
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On November 10 2013 21:57 Wombat_NI wrote:
You are a grade A myopic if you think there is nothing that can be improved in SC2
I think that SC2 can be improved, but not by guys who want BW back.
On the opposite, you think that is the right way how to improve SC2? By whining this forum full every time one of you loses an SC2 game? By creating demands that no one can fulfill?
"Hey Blizzard, can you completely work over anything but BW, because it is my favourite game?"
"Hey David Kim, doing your job well is so easy, and especially I and my TL fellows know how to do this."
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On November 10 2013 22:46 papalion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 21:57 Wombat_NI wrote:
You are a grade A myopic if you think there is nothing that can be improved in SC2
I think that SC2 can be improved, but not by guys who want BW back. On the opposite, you think that is the right way how to improve SC2? By whining this forum full every time one of you loses an SC2 game? By creating demands that no one can fulfill? "Hey Blizzard, can you completely work over anything but BW, because it is my favourite game?" "Hey David Kim, doing your job well is so easy, and especially I and my TL fellows know how to do this."
The only way to improve SC2 is to not buy LotV in order to force Blizzard et all to make drastic changes in terms of gameplay.
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On November 10 2013 23:11 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 22:46 papalion wrote:On November 10 2013 21:57 Wombat_NI wrote:
You are a grade A myopic if you think there is nothing that can be improved in SC2
I think that SC2 can be improved, but not by guys who want BW back. On the opposite, you think that is the right way how to improve SC2? By whining this forum full every time one of you loses an SC2 game? By creating demands that no one can fulfill? "Hey Blizzard, can you completely work over anything but BW, because it is my favourite game?" "Hey David Kim, doing your job well is so easy, and especially I and my TL fellows know how to do this." The only way to improve SC2 is to not buy LotV in order to force Blizzard et all to make drastic changes in terms of gameplay.
or you know, just by releasing lotv like how hots improved sc2 as a whole
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On November 10 2013 23:11 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 22:46 papalion wrote:On November 10 2013 21:57 Wombat_NI wrote:
You are a grade A myopic if you think there is nothing that can be improved in SC2
I think that SC2 can be improved, but not by guys who want BW back. On the opposite, you think that is the right way how to improve SC2? By whining this forum full every time one of you loses an SC2 game? By creating demands that no one can fulfill? "Hey Blizzard, can you completely work over anything but BW, because it is my favourite game?" "Hey David Kim, doing your job well is so easy, and especially I and my TL fellows know how to do this." The only way to improve SC2 is to not buy LotV in order to force Blizzard et all to make drastic changes in terms of gameplay.
I am pretty sure that would have zero effect, since the majority of sales are from people who never play multiplayer.
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On November 10 2013 23:19 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 23:11 Xiphos wrote:On November 10 2013 22:46 papalion wrote:On November 10 2013 21:57 Wombat_NI wrote:
You are a grade A myopic if you think there is nothing that can be improved in SC2
I think that SC2 can be improved, but not by guys who want BW back. On the opposite, you think that is the right way how to improve SC2? By whining this forum full every time one of you loses an SC2 game? By creating demands that no one can fulfill? "Hey Blizzard, can you completely work over anything but BW, because it is my favourite game?" "Hey David Kim, doing your job well is so easy, and especially I and my TL fellows know how to do this." The only way to improve SC2 is to not buy LotV in order to force Blizzard et all to make drastic changes in terms of gameplay. or you know, just by releasing lotv like how hots improved sc2 as a whole
Not enough, the game is still fundamentally micro-restrictive.
On November 10 2013 23:29 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 23:11 Xiphos wrote:On November 10 2013 22:46 papalion wrote:On November 10 2013 21:57 Wombat_NI wrote:
You are a grade A myopic if you think there is nothing that can be improved in SC2
I think that SC2 can be improved, but not by guys who want BW back. On the opposite, you think that is the right way how to improve SC2? By whining this forum full every time one of you loses an SC2 game? By creating demands that no one can fulfill? "Hey Blizzard, can you completely work over anything but BW, because it is my favourite game?" "Hey David Kim, doing your job well is so easy, and especially I and my TL fellows know how to do this." The only way to improve SC2 is to not buy LotV in order to force Blizzard et all to make drastic changes in terms of gameplay. I am pretty sure that would have zero effect, since the majority of sales are from people who never play multiplayer.
And majority of them have shown distaste due to gameplay's staleness.
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On November 11 2013 01:12 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 23:19 ETisME wrote:On November 10 2013 23:11 Xiphos wrote:On November 10 2013 22:46 papalion wrote:On November 10 2013 21:57 Wombat_NI wrote:
You are a grade A myopic if you think there is nothing that can be improved in SC2
I think that SC2 can be improved, but not by guys who want BW back. On the opposite, you think that is the right way how to improve SC2? By whining this forum full every time one of you loses an SC2 game? By creating demands that no one can fulfill? "Hey Blizzard, can you completely work over anything but BW, because it is my favourite game?" "Hey David Kim, doing your job well is so easy, and especially I and my TL fellows know how to do this." The only way to improve SC2 is to not buy LotV in order to force Blizzard et all to make drastic changes in terms of gameplay. or you know, just by releasing lotv like how hots improved sc2 as a whole Not enough, the game is still fundamentally micro-restrictive. Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 23:29 Plansix wrote:On November 10 2013 23:11 Xiphos wrote:On November 10 2013 22:46 papalion wrote:On November 10 2013 21:57 Wombat_NI wrote:
You are a grade A myopic if you think there is nothing that can be improved in SC2
I think that SC2 can be improved, but not by guys who want BW back. On the opposite, you think that is the right way how to improve SC2? By whining this forum full every time one of you loses an SC2 game? By creating demands that no one can fulfill? "Hey Blizzard, can you completely work over anything but BW, because it is my favourite game?" "Hey David Kim, doing your job well is so easy, and especially I and my TL fellows know how to do this." The only way to improve SC2 is to not buy LotV in order to force Blizzard et all to make drastic changes in terms of gameplay. I am pretty sure that would have zero effect, since the majority of sales are from people who never play multiplayer. And majority of them have shown distaste due to gameplay's staleness.
It's only you.
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On November 11 2013 01:19 S1eth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2013 01:12 Xiphos wrote:On November 10 2013 23:19 ETisME wrote:On November 10 2013 23:11 Xiphos wrote:On November 10 2013 22:46 papalion wrote:On November 10 2013 21:57 Wombat_NI wrote:
You are a grade A myopic if you think there is nothing that can be improved in SC2
I think that SC2 can be improved, but not by guys who want BW back. On the opposite, you think that is the right way how to improve SC2? By whining this forum full every time one of you loses an SC2 game? By creating demands that no one can fulfill? "Hey Blizzard, can you completely work over anything but BW, because it is my favourite game?" "Hey David Kim, doing your job well is so easy, and especially I and my TL fellows know how to do this." The only way to improve SC2 is to not buy LotV in order to force Blizzard et all to make drastic changes in terms of gameplay. or you know, just by releasing lotv like how hots improved sc2 as a whole Not enough, the game is still fundamentally micro-restrictive. On November 10 2013 23:29 Plansix wrote:On November 10 2013 23:11 Xiphos wrote:On November 10 2013 22:46 papalion wrote:On November 10 2013 21:57 Wombat_NI wrote:
You are a grade A myopic if you think there is nothing that can be improved in SC2
I think that SC2 can be improved, but not by guys who want BW back. On the opposite, you think that is the right way how to improve SC2? By whining this forum full every time one of you loses an SC2 game? By creating demands that no one can fulfill? "Hey Blizzard, can you completely work over anything but BW, because it is my favourite game?" "Hey David Kim, doing your job well is so easy, and especially I and my TL fellows know how to do this." The only way to improve SC2 is to not buy LotV in order to force Blizzard et all to make drastic changes in terms of gameplay. I am pretty sure that would have zero effect, since the majority of sales are from people who never play multiplayer. And majority of them have shown distaste due to gameplay's staleness. It's only you.
Its not. This is how a regular conversation goes in my campus.
"What kind of games do you play?"
"Umm..for PS3: Battlefield, Skyrim; and a bit of casual SC2."
"Hey I have Battlefield for PS3 too! I brought WoL back when it first came out. How's the expansion? Should I give it a try?"
"They didn't change much except adding a couple of units. So what's your PSN? We should play Battlefield sometime."
"Oh okay. Here, I'll write it down."
These are the exact same words in conversation from library.
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On November 11 2013 01:39 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2013 01:19 S1eth wrote:On November 11 2013 01:12 Xiphos wrote:On November 10 2013 23:19 ETisME wrote:On November 10 2013 23:11 Xiphos wrote:On November 10 2013 22:46 papalion wrote:On November 10 2013 21:57 Wombat_NI wrote:
You are a grade A myopic if you think there is nothing that can be improved in SC2
I think that SC2 can be improved, but not by guys who want BW back. On the opposite, you think that is the right way how to improve SC2? By whining this forum full every time one of you loses an SC2 game? By creating demands that no one can fulfill? "Hey Blizzard, can you completely work over anything but BW, because it is my favourite game?" "Hey David Kim, doing your job well is so easy, and especially I and my TL fellows know how to do this." The only way to improve SC2 is to not buy LotV in order to force Blizzard et all to make drastic changes in terms of gameplay. or you know, just by releasing lotv like how hots improved sc2 as a whole Not enough, the game is still fundamentally micro-restrictive. On November 10 2013 23:29 Plansix wrote:On November 10 2013 23:11 Xiphos wrote:On November 10 2013 22:46 papalion wrote:On November 10 2013 21:57 Wombat_NI wrote:
You are a grade A myopic if you think there is nothing that can be improved in SC2
I think that SC2 can be improved, but not by guys who want BW back. On the opposite, you think that is the right way how to improve SC2? By whining this forum full every time one of you loses an SC2 game? By creating demands that no one can fulfill? "Hey Blizzard, can you completely work over anything but BW, because it is my favourite game?" "Hey David Kim, doing your job well is so easy, and especially I and my TL fellows know how to do this." The only way to improve SC2 is to not buy LotV in order to force Blizzard et all to make drastic changes in terms of gameplay. I am pretty sure that would have zero effect, since the majority of sales are from people who never play multiplayer. And majority of them have shown distaste due to gameplay's staleness. It's only you. Its not. This is how a regular conversation goes in my campus. "What kind of games do you play?" "Umm..for PS3: Battlefield, Skyrim; and a bit of casual SC2." "Hey I have Battlefield for PS3 too! I brought WoL back when it first came out. How's the expansion? Should I give it a try?" "They didn't change much except adding a couple of units. So what's your PSN? We should play Battlefield sometime." "Oh okay. Here, I'll write it down." These are the exact same words in conversation from library.
Ahaha playing a shooter on a console, you guys in NA are so funny dudes, sry that was needed here.
Gosh when will people stop with that bs arguments and get that rts games are just not popular anymore.
Sc2 could be the best game in the world and still people would rather play the xth call of duty (on console, lol) or some other easy to get into game. I mean in a world where every game needs some sort of conditioning to even be played, there is no place for the more "hardcore" games, pls guys realize that
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On November 10 2013 22:46 papalion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 21:57 Wombat_NI wrote:
You are a grade A myopic if you think there is nothing that can be improved in SC2
I think that SC2 can be improved, but not by guys who want BW back. On the opposite, you think that is the right way how to improve SC2? By whining this forum full every time one of you loses an SC2 game? By creating demands that no one can fulfill? "Hey Blizzard, can you completely work over anything but BW, because it is my favourite game?" "Hey David Kim, doing your job well is so easy, and especially I and my TL fellows know how to do this."
Wanting BW and improving SC2 is not the same thing. Why would you not want to adapt those mechanics where BW is vastly superior to SC2? Only a crackpot, Blizzard can do no wrong fanatic, would believe that you should never do so. Considering how limiting it is for micro I can't see there reason for it. And saying that noone could appreciate because they would not understand it is just silly excuse for not wanting to look into it because of some obscure reason. I just don't buy it.
Besides DK is not inherently doing that bad off a job, but he deserves some heat with that smartass attitude.
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On November 11 2013 01:12 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 23:19 ETisME wrote:On November 10 2013 23:11 Xiphos wrote:On November 10 2013 22:46 papalion wrote:On November 10 2013 21:57 Wombat_NI wrote:
You are a grade A myopic if you think there is nothing that can be improved in SC2
I think that SC2 can be improved, but not by guys who want BW back. On the opposite, you think that is the right way how to improve SC2? By whining this forum full every time one of you loses an SC2 game? By creating demands that no one can fulfill? "Hey Blizzard, can you completely work over anything but BW, because it is my favourite game?" "Hey David Kim, doing your job well is so easy, and especially I and my TL fellows know how to do this." The only way to improve SC2 is to not buy LotV in order to force Blizzard et all to make drastic changes in terms of gameplay. or you know, just by releasing lotv like how hots improved sc2 as a whole Not enough, the game is still fundamentally micro-restrictive. Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 23:29 Plansix wrote:On November 10 2013 23:11 Xiphos wrote:On November 10 2013 22:46 papalion wrote:On November 10 2013 21:57 Wombat_NI wrote:
You are a grade A myopic if you think there is nothing that can be improved in SC2
I think that SC2 can be improved, but not by guys who want BW back. On the opposite, you think that is the right way how to improve SC2? By whining this forum full every time one of you loses an SC2 game? By creating demands that no one can fulfill? "Hey Blizzard, can you completely work over anything but BW, because it is my favourite game?" "Hey David Kim, doing your job well is so easy, and especially I and my TL fellows know how to do this." The only way to improve SC2 is to not buy LotV in order to force Blizzard et all to make drastic changes in terms of gameplay. I am pretty sure that would have zero effect, since the majority of sales are from people who never play multiplayer. And majority of them have shown distaste due to gameplay's staleness.
As they did for BW ? Oh wait..
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On November 11 2013 01:39 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2013 01:19 S1eth wrote:On November 11 2013 01:12 Xiphos wrote:On November 10 2013 23:19 ETisME wrote:On November 10 2013 23:11 Xiphos wrote:On November 10 2013 22:46 papalion wrote:On November 10 2013 21:57 Wombat_NI wrote:
You are a grade A myopic if you think there is nothing that can be improved in SC2
I think that SC2 can be improved, but not by guys who want BW back. On the opposite, you think that is the right way how to improve SC2? By whining this forum full every time one of you loses an SC2 game? By creating demands that no one can fulfill? "Hey Blizzard, can you completely work over anything but BW, because it is my favourite game?" "Hey David Kim, doing your job well is so easy, and especially I and my TL fellows know how to do this." The only way to improve SC2 is to not buy LotV in order to force Blizzard et all to make drastic changes in terms of gameplay. or you know, just by releasing lotv like how hots improved sc2 as a whole Not enough, the game is still fundamentally micro-restrictive. On November 10 2013 23:29 Plansix wrote:On November 10 2013 23:11 Xiphos wrote:On November 10 2013 22:46 papalion wrote:On November 10 2013 21:57 Wombat_NI wrote:
You are a grade A myopic if you think there is nothing that can be improved in SC2
I think that SC2 can be improved, but not by guys who want BW back. On the opposite, you think that is the right way how to improve SC2? By whining this forum full every time one of you loses an SC2 game? By creating demands that no one can fulfill? "Hey Blizzard, can you completely work over anything but BW, because it is my favourite game?" "Hey David Kim, doing your job well is so easy, and especially I and my TL fellows know how to do this." The only way to improve SC2 is to not buy LotV in order to force Blizzard et all to make drastic changes in terms of gameplay. I am pretty sure that would have zero effect, since the majority of sales are from people who never play multiplayer. And majority of them have shown distaste due to gameplay's staleness. It's only you. Its not. This is how a regular conversation goes in my campus. "What kind of games do you play?" "Umm..for PS3: Battlefield, Skyrim; and a bit of casual SC2." "Hey I have Battlefield for PS3 too! I brought WoL back when it first came out. How's the expansion? Should I give it a try?" "They didn't change much except adding a couple of units. So what's your PSN? We should play Battlefield sometime." "Oh okay. Here, I'll write it down." These are the exact same words in conversation from library.
The plural of anecdote is not data. Finding people that agree with you does not mean you are the majority. There are plenty of people who like SC2. Just because you don't doesn't mean it is a terrible game.
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David Kim was clear that Blizzard isn't willing to implement Lalush's ideas and since this thread is slowly turning (if it's not already) into a BW vs Sc2 hate thread, shouldn't a mod close it ?
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On November 11 2013 03:13 algue wrote:
David Kim was clear that Blizzard isn't willing to implement Lalush's ideas and since this thread is slowly turning (if it's not already) into a BW vs Sc2 hate thread, shouldn't a mod close it ?
Don't know all the closing criteria myself but I don't think such an exceptional, well thought out OP such as this should be penalized for the conduct of certain posters in the thread. As a community we should be pressuring Blizzard to implement changes along the lines OP has detailed here.
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On November 11 2013 03:17 JeanLuc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2013 03:13 algue wrote:
David Kim was clear that Blizzard isn't willing to implement Lalush's ideas and since this thread is slowly turning (if it's not already) into a BW vs Sc2 hate thread, shouldn't a mod close it ? Don't know all the closing criteria myself but I don't think such an exceptional, well thought out OP such as this should be penalized for the conduct of certain posters in the thread. As a community we should be pressuring Blizzard to implement changes along the lines OP has detailed here.
I dont' think that is likely. If anything, we should focus down to things that Blizzard might be willing to do, like the turret change. A reasonable argument could be made for that.
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Northern Ireland23732 Posts
Why bother?
Reasonable arguments are out there, it's up to Blizz as to whether they take them on board or not.
It seems a waste of effort to make vids like the OP only to be straight-batted every time. I despair of Blizzard's understanding of the 'casual players' they namecheck, none of the self-described casual players have anything like the views that get attributed to them.
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EPT
