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Depth of Micro - Page 45

Forum Index > SC2 General
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ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12384 Posts
November 09 2013 10:36 GMT
#881
On November 09 2013 19:16 reminisce12 wrote:
lol at the pplz saying creep spread is micro, its deadweight micro, u dont even have to use ur brain to do it. Micro should be bout battling b and forth with units, minimizing dmg taken while dealing maximum dmg.

the vid clearly demonstrates that sc2's engine is prohibiting alot of micro mechanics taht existed in bw.

yea, creep itself isn't the micro, I said it is a spectator friendly mechanics that people can see.

Creep encourages micro and lead to early reaper hellion vs ling queen actions and has a huge impact on how the match will play out and affect both side's micro (baneling off creep is way easier to deal with)

terran can be praised for their ability to control creep or zerg is praised for their ability to re-creep or creeping.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Tppz!
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany1449 Posts
November 09 2013 10:37 GMT
#882
its pretty clear for me. we as a community have to start "pressuring" that we totally want those changes (or just most of them). if blizzard will see us getting nuts about this they will think about it and improve their game
Tchado
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Jordan1831 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-09 11:32:04
November 09 2013 11:09 GMT
#883
weak DK , fucking weak man....call me crazy but I dont think DK is that stupid , he just saw the video and thought "well fuck..... , ok what do I do to keep my job and keep the bosses happy ?" , this is the kind of world we live in , anyone here on TL that is employed by an international company or NGO knows this , he needs to come up with a bullshit response that keeps him in power and keeps his job......DK is an old school gamer , there is no way he would see this video and say the stuff in it is bullshit , or that he gives a fuck about the "casual viewer" , this whole issue is nothing more than office politics , and a control for power over the arguments Lelush is making IN THE EYES OF THE PEOPLE WHO SIGN HIS PAY CHECKS.

Anyone who doesn't agree , go work for the UN for a few years , and then tell me I'm wrong.
L3monsta
Profile Joined May 2012
New Zealand149 Posts
November 09 2013 11:25 GMT
#884
If David Kim thinks its too hard for casuals to understand, then give Marines default damage point. It's almost equally hard to for the casual to understand whats going on.

+ Show Spoiler +
Incase you didn't click, I was being sarcastic in my suggestion.
Cloak
Profile Joined October 2009
United States816 Posts
November 09 2013 12:21 GMT
#885
I agree with DK that this form of micro is harder to understand, but that's precisely the appeal. The "MIND. BLOWN" aspect of pro play that solidifies in your mind these are gods and you are not. I always thought worker micro in BW and in the Lalush video were a perfect examples of that. Bisu's basic unit micro was what set him apart from even the other pro Protoss, so it's no wonder he couldn't get anywhere with a dumbed down Probe and Zealot in SC2.

DK is probably just rationnalizing the business decision that they're not going to spend money on these elements, the inflated graphics budget is more important, especially over the writing budget in the campaign. I can't fault a major corporation for attending to their logistical constraints, but it just seems sad that massive collaborative efforts rarely improve outcome, and are rather hamstrung by inertia. I'm just confused what their efforts will go toward in LotV because we're probably not going to net many more units, so it was presumed this would be the opportunity to really clean up and refine the already existing units and dynamics. This should be the expansion where they reevaluate every unit with this level of micro depth and strategic depth, because there is this still nagging feel that the units on the screen micro too homogeneously.

With that said, HotS has come a long way, and I think it has come along farther than most people give it credit for.
The more you know, the less you understand.
mihajovics
Profile Joined April 2011
179 Posts
November 09 2013 12:31 GMT
#886
this logic is SOOOOOO flawed that it's unbelievable...

my guess is he didn't really read/watch all the stuff, but didn't want to seem uninformed so pulled out a well sounding anwser out of his PR hat...

if players can micro more predictably then that means the differences in skill WILL be more noticeable WITHOUT the need of understanding what so ever how the mechanics of the micro work.
simple: one guys shit dies, the other guys shit doesn't
i know, mind = blown
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
November 09 2013 13:07 GMT
#887
Well, for me that looked horrible. Unit turns faster than light lol?
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
Elldar
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden287 Posts
November 09 2013 13:51 GMT
#888
On November 09 2013 22:07 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Well, for me that looked horrible. Unit turns faster than light lol?


Playability and awesome moves beats visibility in a heartbeat.
Taguchi
Profile Joined February 2003
Greece1575 Posts
November 09 2013 13:56 GMT
#889
On November 09 2013 22:07 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Well, for me that looked horrible. Unit turns faster than light lol?


yes, an aircraft stopping midair, gazing at its target for a while, then shooting looks very normal and natural for the casual viewer, or hell, anyone at all /facepalm

not to mention, in the hots cinematic playing during blizzcon the tank had a fucking tracking turret

so sad
Great minds might think alike, but fastest hands rule the day~
TaShadan
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany1967 Posts
November 09 2013 14:12 GMT
#890
On November 09 2013 22:56 Taguchi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2013 22:07 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Well, for me that looked horrible. Unit turns faster than light lol?


yes, an aircraft stopping midair, gazing at its target for a while, then shooting looks very normal and natural for the casual viewer, or hell, anyone at all /facepalm

not to mention, in the hots cinematic playing during blizzcon the tank had a fucking tracking turret

so sad


Never seen an F-16 doing that in battle? Its kinda commen in reality. Real tanks dont need to turn the turret aswell. They can turn the whole tank super fast!

+ Show Spoiler +
Oh wait... NOT
Total Annihilation Zero
Elldar
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden287 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-09 15:09:13
November 09 2013 14:21 GMT
#891
On November 09 2013 23:12 TaShadan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2013 22:56 Taguchi wrote:
On November 09 2013 22:07 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Well, for me that looked horrible. Unit turns faster than light lol?


yes, an aircraft stopping midair, gazing at its target for a while, then shooting looks very normal and natural for the casual viewer, or hell, anyone at all /facepalm

not to mention, in the hots cinematic playing during blizzcon the tank had a fucking tracking turret

so sad


Never seen an F-16 doing that in battle? Its kinda commen in reality. Real tanks dont need to turn the turret aswell. They can turn the whole tank super fast!

+ Show Spoiler +
Oh wait... NOT

In SC2 the tank can't rotate its turret, and I can't see how a F-16 can stop dead in a single spot rotate to aim and shoot. All aerodynamic would tell you that it would drop in altitude within seconds. Being realistic is not the fun-factor unless you play a simulator game.
ffadicted
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3545 Posts
November 09 2013 14:46 GMT
#892
That's.... a disappointing answer...
No comment on the air separation? No comment on the turrets? No comment on the air bug-outs? Feels like a cop-out answer...
SooYoung-Noona!
S1eth
Profile Joined November 2011
Austria221 Posts
November 09 2013 14:51 GMT
#893
On November 09 2013 22:56 Taguchi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2013 22:07 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Well, for me that looked horrible. Unit turns faster than light lol?


yes, an aircraft stopping midair, gazing at its target for a while, then shooting looks very normal and natural for the casual viewer, or hell, anyone at all /facepalm

not to mention, in the hots cinematic playing during blizzcon the tank had a fucking tracking turret

so sad

If vikings couldn't stop midair, they wouldn't be able to transform.
ionONE
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany605 Posts
November 09 2013 14:56 GMT
#894
good thing there is a second blizzcon day ... maybe we can get a more in depth explanation
JANGBI never forget
NukeD
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia1612 Posts
November 09 2013 15:21 GMT
#895
On November 09 2013 23:51 S1eth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2013 22:56 Taguchi wrote:
On November 09 2013 22:07 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Well, for me that looked horrible. Unit turns faster than light lol?


yes, an aircraft stopping midair, gazing at its target for a while, then shooting looks very normal and natural for the casual viewer, or hell, anyone at all /facepalm

not to mention, in the hots cinematic playing during blizzcon the tank had a fucking tracking turret

so sad

If vikings couldn't stop midair, they wouldn't be able to transform.

Logic. Cant beat that.

+ Show Spoiler +
As stupid as your comment is, its also wrong. In the HotS cinematic the clearly viking transforms in full flying speed when it attacked that ultralisk.
sorry for dem one liners
TaShadan
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany1967 Posts
November 09 2013 15:25 GMT
#896
On November 09 2013 23:21 Elldar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2013 23:12 TaShadan wrote:
On November 09 2013 22:56 Taguchi wrote:
On November 09 2013 22:07 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Well, for me that looked horrible. Unit turns faster than light lol?


yes, an aircraft stopping midair, gazing at its target for a while, then shooting looks very normal and natural for the casual viewer, or hell, anyone at all /facepalm

not to mention, in the hots cinematic playing during blizzcon the tank had a fucking tracking turret

so sad


Never seen an F-16 doing that in battle? Its kinda commen in reality. Real tanks dont need to turn the turret aswell. They can turn the whole tank super fast!

+ Show Spoiler +
Oh wait... NOT

In SC2 the tank can't rotate its turret, and I can't see how a F-16 can stop dead in a single spot rotate to aim and shoot. All aerodynamic would tell you that it would drop in altitude within seconds. Being realistic is not the fun-factor unless you play a simulator game.


Oh really? Did you check the spoiler? :p
Total Annihilation Zero
Scootaloo SC2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States122 Posts
November 09 2013 15:34 GMT
#897
On November 09 2013 23:46 ffadicted wrote:
That's.... a disappointing answer...
No comment on the air separation? No comment on the turrets? No comment on the air bug-outs? Feels like a cop-out answer...

Given how much there is in the video, and how little time there was to answer, I'm guessing that the only way one would get a full, point-by-point response (if it ever does happen) would be in an elongated blog post, as opposed to an interview question/answer session.
S1eth
Profile Joined November 2011
Austria221 Posts
November 09 2013 15:37 GMT
#898
On November 10 2013 00:21 NukeD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2013 23:51 S1eth wrote:
On November 09 2013 22:56 Taguchi wrote:
On November 09 2013 22:07 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Well, for me that looked horrible. Unit turns faster than light lol?


yes, an aircraft stopping midair, gazing at its target for a while, then shooting looks very normal and natural for the casual viewer, or hell, anyone at all /facepalm

not to mention, in the hots cinematic playing during blizzcon the tank had a fucking tracking turret

so sad

If vikings couldn't stop midair, they wouldn't be able to transform.

Logic. Cant beat that.

+ Show Spoiler +
As stupid as your comment is, its also wrong. In the HotS cinematic the clearly viking transforms in full flying speed when it attacked that ultralisk.

Surely, by your logic, vikings tranform into Fighter mode at full speed all the time.
Please stop embarrassing yourself.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-09 15:58:17
November 09 2013 15:56 GMT
#899
On November 10 2013 00:34 Scootaloo SC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2013 23:46 ffadicted wrote:
That's.... a disappointing answer...
No comment on the air separation? No comment on the turrets? No comment on the air bug-outs? Feels like a cop-out answer...

Given how much there is in the video, and how little time there was to answer, I'm guessing that the only way one would get a full, point-by-point response (if it ever does happen) would be in an elongated blog post, as opposed to an interview question/answer session.

Agreed, it was a 15 minute video and DK had other questions to answer. Also, it not like DK memorized every point in the video. I wish the person asking has focused down on to one or two topics, like the turrets or air separation. I felt we could have gotten a better answer on that specific subject, rather than the video as a whole.

On November 10 2013 00:37 S1eth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2013 00:21 NukeD wrote:
On November 09 2013 23:51 S1eth wrote:
On November 09 2013 22:56 Taguchi wrote:
On November 09 2013 22:07 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Well, for me that looked horrible. Unit turns faster than light lol?


yes, an aircraft stopping midair, gazing at its target for a while, then shooting looks very normal and natural for the casual viewer, or hell, anyone at all /facepalm

not to mention, in the hots cinematic playing during blizzcon the tank had a fucking tracking turret

so sad

If vikings couldn't stop midair, they wouldn't be able to transform.

Logic. Cant beat that.

+ Show Spoiler +
As stupid as your comment is, its also wrong. In the HotS cinematic the clearly viking transforms in full flying speed when it attacked that ultralisk.

Surely, by your logic, vikings tranform into Fighter mode at full speed all the time.
Please stop embarrassing yourself.


Its starcraft guys, nothing makes sense. How can a space slug control an entire battleship filled with crew? Explain to me why 4 vikings are larger than the starport they come from? How do 2 siege tanks fit into a medivac?

Logic does not work in SC2.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
NukeD
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia1612 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-09 16:08:51
November 09 2013 16:01 GMT
#900
On November 10 2013 00:37 S1eth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2013 00:21 NukeD wrote:
On November 09 2013 23:51 S1eth wrote:
On November 09 2013 22:56 Taguchi wrote:
On November 09 2013 22:07 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Well, for me that looked horrible. Unit turns faster than light lol?


yes, an aircraft stopping midair, gazing at its target for a while, then shooting looks very normal and natural for the casual viewer, or hell, anyone at all /facepalm

not to mention, in the hots cinematic playing during blizzcon the tank had a fucking tracking turret

so sad

If vikings couldn't stop midair, they wouldn't be able to transform.

Logic. Cant beat that.

+ Show Spoiler +
As stupid as your comment is, its also wrong. In the HotS cinematic the clearly viking transforms in full flying speed when it attacked that ultralisk.

Surely, by your logic, vikings tranform into Fighter mode at full speed all the time.
Please stop embarrassing yourself.

You have clearly demonstrated how logic is your stronger point. You are right up there with dem greek philosophers arent you.

EDIT: anyway, what Plansix wrote was my point. Argumenting something using logic in a video game like SC2 is silly.
sorry for dem one liners
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