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Dauntless
Norway548 Posts
On November 09 2013 10:28 Grumbels wrote: new game planetary annihilation is coming out in some months, check it out on steam, it's the follow-up to supcom It's nothing like StarCraft though.. | ||
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A3iL3r0n
United States2196 Posts
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
On November 09 2013 10:19 NukeD wrote: Casual gamers? What casual gamer plays SC2 really? There are tons of bronze and silver league players aren't there? I would say they're pretty casual. Plus all those who don't even play anymore because ladder is such a nerve-racking experience. I'm not sure how deep you can say their knowledge of the game is. edit: But definitely for people who love SC2 I think they should change it. I'm really loving watching lalush's video. As time goes on the audience will probably be mostly hardcore viewers remaining. Maybe that's the way it already is, not sure | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3326 Posts
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Kyhol
Canada2574 Posts
On November 09 2013 09:06 Nerevar wrote: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1q7g4q/david_kim_comments_on_the_depth_of_micro_video/cda0ub7 As expected. I hope those casuals enjoy their game as I have moved on to better things. It's time for people to band together and create a new RTS for hardcore players. LaLush should hop on that train. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On November 09 2013 14:53 Kyhol wrote: As expected. I hope those casuals enjoy their game as I have moved on to better things. It's time for people to band together and create a new RTS for hardcore players. LaLush should hop on that train. It has been made in 1997. | ||
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goody153
44020 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On November 09 2013 14:57 goody153 wrote: what is wrong with adding more micro potential ? that creates more amazing games right .. tsk.x There is nothing wrong with adding more micro, even Blizzard admits that. Question is: what micro to add? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23737 Posts
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JeanLuc
Canada377 Posts
On November 09 2013 14:58 lolfail9001 wrote: There is nothing wrong with adding more micro, even Blizzard admits that. Question is: what micro to add? .... the micro detailed at length in OP's video and wall of text. | ||
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Rhythmic
Russian Federation14 Posts
"DAMN YOU CASUAL VIEWERS, IF ONLY WE HAD NARRATORS CAPABLE OF DESCRIBING THE SMALLER DETAILS OF HUGE FEATS!" | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On November 09 2013 15:07 JeanLuc wrote: .... the micro detailed at length in OP's video and wall of text. Subjective. | ||
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
Its like looking at Roger federer playing tennis and doing these unorthodox moves that win him match points. You dont need to understand how its done.. anyone, even those that do not know what tennis is will find it pretty spectacular.. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On November 09 2013 16:37 YyapSsap wrote: I dont get DK's response. 95% of the users on BW were casuals playing custom games all the time. Yet all of them appreciated and found all these supposed hardcore micros that the pros were doing really cool. I think hes misunderstanding the whole situation. You dont need to understand how its working at a low level. Its like looking at Roger federer playing tennis and doing these unorthodox moves that win him match points. You dont need to understand how its done.. anyone, even those that do not know what tennis is will find it pretty spectacular.. 95% of BW players actually watched BW outside of Korea? Today i actually learned alot. And then again, without actually doing those any kind of micro is hard to appreciate. Keeping your units actually invisible especially is hard to see and appreciate :D | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
And unlike BW, in SC2 these mechanics need not be hidden, but still hard to use to raise the ceiling of possible micro. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On November 09 2013 16:46 Xiphias wrote: Yeah, adding a lot of this small subtle things which makes micro better will not remove anything from the casual A-move player. In Bronze - gold, the player with the biggest army will still win when A-moved even if dmg point etc is changed. I'm not understanding DK at all either. And unlike BW, in SC2 these mechanics need not be hidden, but still hard to use to raise the ceiling of possible micro. Ceiling of possible micro is still just as impossible to reach as before. I suppose what DK was actually talking about is that casual viewer will find it hard to appreciate that kind of micro, granted they still consider adding some micro possibilities. | ||
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
On November 09 2013 16:42 lolfail9001 wrote: 95% of BW players actually watched BW outside of Korea? Today i actually learned alot. And then again, without actually doing those any kind of micro is hard to appreciate. Keeping your units actually invisible especially is hard to see and appreciate :D Hard to appreciate? appreciating something and finding something cool/spectuclar is two different things. The former will apply to the hardcore and the moderate gamers when they are watching the real pros perform this. The latter is reserved for the so called casuals and perhaps both where its cool and awe inspiring at times. There is a reason why BW was huge for a very long time and paved itself as the foundation of esports. You can't do this if there is no fanbase/community where 90% of it would most likely be those that have never played BW or perhaps played it a couple of times casually. Micro in BW was perhaps one of the reasons why the fanbase was huge. No one cared how it was done.. all they can see is just how well this player is controlling the mutalisk flock gracefully, sniping marines at every turn hence why JD is so popular. Alot of people including foreigners watched pro BW.. why do you think theres such community called team liquid in the first place? Its true that the foreign scene was having a hard time catching up to the korean scene to a point where many stopped trying but that didn't mean that the community disbanded.. Alot of foreigners (whether they played BW or not) followed the korean scene. I bet you alot of them played dota/cs/war3 as their main games but watched pro BW regularly. Just dig up the old threads if you dont believe me  Don't even try to argue about visibility. Infact Id say visibility of BW is one of its strength. Although the game engine itself was ancient it was very clear and crisp. You clearly can see whats firing, whats getting hit and whats dying. The sound was crisp and had oomph. You clearly knew whats dying, whats firing etc even in an 200/200 engagement. SC2 on the other hand is alot harder to comprehend from the visuals and sound. Why do you think people want stronger team colors? some play with all the details turned off.. | ||
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RiZu
Singapore5715 Posts
Why the hell does DK think that casual gamers will be affected? If I can do those micro I would be more excited and feel special. How many of those pro gamers started off as casual gamers. I see no reason why DK doesn't want to implement all this. The first time I saw Jaedong BW Muta spilt, I was more amazed rather than confused. Does DK actually think that the viewers or even first time viewers are unable to understand the beauty of micro. Everyone who played video games will obviously recognised it. Taking speed running a game as an example, the reason why it so popular is because there are millions of tricks that can be used to reduce the time of your speed racing. Does DK actually think all the casual gamers only play game like mind sweepers lol. DK is also forgetting about the casters, I am sure they don't mind explaining the harder micro to the casual viewers. All in all, I just hope DK will implement some of this changes. There a reason why BW got such a deep history in korea that it became their culture. Even if the casual players are not capable to execute such micro, it not like it will break the game lol. Thank Lalush for the awesome video! | ||
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ETisME
12265 Posts
We can have good micro by just having a unit with more micro potential without having these bw tricks, we can however have more units with more micro potential. Creep spread for one is a great example on what he means by spectator friendly mechanics. How fast a zerg can creep up and how the terran controls it by using reaper hellions banshee. | ||
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
On November 09 2013 17:12 ETisME wrote: What DK meant is that we don't need a non spectator friendly micro that requires a person to spent extensive amount of time to explain how the micro works. We can have good micro by just having a unit with more micro potential without having these bw tricks, we can however have more units with more micro potential. Creep spread for one is a great example on what he means by spectator friendly mechanics. How fast a zerg can creep up and how the terran controls it by using reaper hellions banshee. Is this real life? Id actually call that non spectator friendly because they have no idea how important creep is in the first place.. and its visually boring. Sure casters hype it up and those who play ladder frequently know.. but to casuals? I cant believe you can call those examples in Lalush's video non spectator friendly micro /smh To be honest I never knew how mutalisk stack/glide shoot micro was done in BW. But i found it so ridiculously addictive to watch and how pros used them to stop the mm pushes. You could immediately tell who were better in terms of control where some were so good the game was ended with pure mutalisk control... The important part is that I never needed to know how this was done in the first place to find it enjoyable to watch. | ||
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