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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On November 08 2013 12:05 Plansix wrote: Original red alert? It was fine for its time. Good even. Its doesn't hold up, but neither does Sonic. What is this blapshemy?! Wash your mouth out, son. | ||
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Dauntless
Norway548 Posts
Nathan Fabrikant @nathaniastv Q&A: David Kim comments on "depths of micro" video, mentions skill visability but says casual viewer can't understand that type of micro Well that's not very nice of Mr. Kim :| | ||
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
On November 09 2013 07:20 Dauntless wrote: https://twitter.com/nathaniastv/status/398933675095519232 Well that's not very nice of Mr. Kim :| Someone needs to go get there girlfriend, show them a video with depth of micro and watch them still understand whats going on. Such a painful cop out answer. Its really not that hard to understand a viking shooting back and forth but a little bit faster. And think about the tank???????? How is a tracking turret not fucking realistic??????????? My god I am sad  | ||
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DinoToss
Poland507 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On November 09 2013 07:24 DinoToss wrote: Original C&C and RA1 were one of the best RTS ever, period. Imo better than WC2. And single player wise better than BW. RA1 was pretty epic lol | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25047 Posts
If casual viewers don't get it, they won't care if it's improved (even accepting that that is the case). Everyone else might potentially prefer more microability. Win/win? | ||
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hansonslee
United States2027 Posts
We want more people to watch the game and freshening up the micro is one of the best ways to recruit more followers especially newcomers who can see how flashy the games can be. Man, DK fucks it up again... | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
- Blizzard was never going to drastically change the game in LotV. Put the two together and you can redirect the blame from David Kim to someone else. | ||
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Rhythmic
Russian Federation14 Posts
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adMachine
Australia54 Posts
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Traceback
United States469 Posts
I would point at wraith micro in BW as a simple example of this. Did the casual viewer understand how the patrol mechanics worked? Certainly not. Did it matter? No. The overall visual affect and movements of it made it blatantly obvious to any viewer that there was skill involved in microing those units. When the developers of SC2 went into the game, they wanted to make it flashy to the viewers eye. Graphics help, sure, but the kind of micro that really kept the viewers attention were things like marine splitting, storm dodging, etc. These kinds of micro were successful because they not only required excellent mechanics, but the distinctive movement caught the viewers eye easily. To say that the casual viewer would be unable to understand most of the forms of micro in the video would simply mean that they hadn't been implemented correctly. On top of that, there are certain benefits to implementing advanced micro techniques that a viewer would have to learn as well. Giving the viewer something to learn helps to invest them in the game and can really increase their enjoyment once they understand them. It's similar how a brand new SC2 viewer wouldn't understand why the Terran player had to spread out his units when he did a marine split. Then, later, after they understood what banelings were and what they do to marine balls, they would suddenly realize just how much is on the line when that Terran player starts to split. This only helps to increase their enjoyment and excitement about the game, despite them not fully understand the micro at first. | ||
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Nerevar
547 Posts
[–]cloaken [score hidden] 15 minutes ago You all appear to be drawing conclusions without hearing what David said in context. He said that the type of micro implemented back in Brood War was not easy to understand and appreciate as a casual viewer. These were hidden mechanics (so hidden that it even took a specific video made by a passionate investigator that to explain the nuances to our most invested followers). We think we can do better than that. Skill based tactics like Blink, or zerg surrounds - those are the kinds of things that are easy to understand. Others like Spawn Larvae and Chrono Boost, carrier micro etc. - these are not easy to watch and appreciate to new viewers. We feel that the game needs a healthy mix of skill abilities that are easy to appreciate along side the deeper unseen technical stuff. Right now, we think the game leans too heavy on the hard-to-appreciate-for-a-new-viewer side. [–]cloaken [score hidden] 4 minutes ago We agree that we want more skill visibility in the game. David said that himself in his presentation. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1q7g4q/david_kim_comments_on_the_depth_of_micro_video/cda0ub7 | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On November 09 2013 09:06 Nerevar wrote: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1q7g4q/david_kim_comments_on_the_depth_of_micro_video/cda0ub7 "Not appealing for causal viewers" is a lame excuse. Sounds more like "we are lazy/afraid to do any changes, lets be content with what we have". | ||
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CutTheEnemy
Canada373 Posts
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purakushi
United States3300 Posts
In BW, you can really tell the difference between a pro and an amateur controlling their units in every scope of control. In SC2, it is far less apparent, largely due to how automated and perfect the system is. In Korea, both 5 and 50 year olds could appreciate the awesome micro in BW. You can really tell when units accomplish something amazing (as a group or individually) and that it was the player controlling, not the AI. This is not the case in SC2. Right now, we think the game leans too heavy on the hard-to-appreciate-for-a-new-viewer side. This basically means. Once a new viewers gets into SC2 and actually learns the game, it will become boring, because there is very little of the difficult things to appreciate. sigh Sure, we want to get more viewers/players in SC2, but longevity is the issue here. The sort of things that viewers can appreciate in SC2 is not a long list. To put it bluntly, people get bored. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
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ZaeYeL
United States14 Posts
As purakushi said, the micro is less noticeable than in BW imo, and as Traceback stated, knowing the actual mechanics behind microing doesn't matter as long as the visual-aspect is easy to notice. David Kim's response seems poor and lack luster. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25047 Posts
On November 09 2013 10:04 CutTheEnemy wrote: We're gonna have to rely on day9's game now to save the rts genre Why do people post stuff about the guy who has never exactly been vocal about fixing SC2's flaws from a position of actual influence? | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On November 09 2013 10:04 CutTheEnemy wrote: We're gonna have to rely on day9's game now to save the rts genre new game planetary annihilation is coming out in some months, check it out on steam, it's the follow-up to supcom | ||
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