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I'm seeing a lot of comments from people who are disappointed that we did not share the exact plans for WCS 2014. To clarify, we did not intend for this to be an announcement, or an announcement of an announcement for that matter  The reality is that we are still finalizing the details of WCS 2014 with our partners, however, we did not want to wait until everything was finalized before letting you know some of the things we were discussing. We want to give the community an opportunity to provide feedback before we locked down the specific details. We have outlined most of our plans and ideas in some of our answers, but haven't fully committed to any of the decisions because we want to hear from the community. Our goal is to confirm and announce the plans for WCS 2014 before BlizzCon. That gives you at least a week to give us your input on what we've shared! Thanks again for your support! -kimaphan |
On October 15 2013 23:30 Pirfiktshon wrote:I think your Idea is a beautiful one FFW_Rude. It would make more sense it would also give players opportunity to switch regions if they join another team which also could create almost a Player trading or draft which is what makes everything more exciting in Football and other events
About the "olympic" thing that i mentionned earlier. it existed (wgt).
So they can do it too
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On October 15 2013 23:25 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 23:23 Plansix wrote:On October 15 2013 23:19 FFW_Rude wrote:Well reading the responses to my posts were kind of sad. People have different expectation. What i write is what i think. Not what everybody thinks Just my opinion. I, for one want to see great players and best player. Sure i like some of the underdogs but i can relate that i root for Flash because i relate to him (i'm not korean, i'm bw zerg player) somehow. I should have wrote : "why on earth should I" and not "should you" (bad english is bad). What i wanted to say is that when BW was only korean people didn't really care of national heroes (because they were none/few). Foreigner wants foreigner is a thing that came with SC2 i feel. I don't want region lock to be based on country. I want region lock on teams. So Jaedong is EG, he plays in US, MVP is in IM, => Korea. ForGG is in millenium => EU. And i don't want a grand final between those 3. I want a 4year olympic style when there is region lock country. I think that would satisfy a lot of people (but maybe i'm wrong) I'm an old guy from BW So my heroes are koreans. Even if i'm not. I understand what you mean. It's difficult to argument in this language for me  Well a lot of people aren't from BW and they don't have that level of attachment. People want to grow their local scene and that takes some rules and restrictions. No one want to see scrubs play in the finals. But we also don't need 16 top Korean players to avoid terrible games. Yeah i know that. I just fail to see it from time to time So for you team based lock is not enough ?
I am for any rule that keeps games interesting and gives new players a chance to shine. No rule is going to be perfect, but the current system has some real flaws. It is going to be a learning experience for everyone, and we should be open to the idea that no one knows the best way to do it. But that should stop people from trying and talking about it.
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On October 15 2013 23:34 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 23:25 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 15 2013 23:23 Plansix wrote:On October 15 2013 23:19 FFW_Rude wrote:Well reading the responses to my posts were kind of sad. People have different expectation. What i write is what i think. Not what everybody thinks Just my opinion. I, for one want to see great players and best player. Sure i like some of the underdogs but i can relate that i root for Flash because i relate to him (i'm not korean, i'm bw zerg player) somehow. I should have wrote : "why on earth should I" and not "should you" (bad english is bad). What i wanted to say is that when BW was only korean people didn't really care of national heroes (because they were none/few). Foreigner wants foreigner is a thing that came with SC2 i feel. I don't want region lock to be based on country. I want region lock on teams. So Jaedong is EG, he plays in US, MVP is in IM, => Korea. ForGG is in millenium => EU. And i don't want a grand final between those 3. I want a 4year olympic style when there is region lock country. I think that would satisfy a lot of people (but maybe i'm wrong) I'm an old guy from BW So my heroes are koreans. Even if i'm not. I understand what you mean. It's difficult to argument in this language for me Well a lot of people aren't from BW and they don't have that level of attachment. People want to grow their local scene and that takes some rules and restrictions. No one want to see scrubs play in the finals. But we also don't need 16 top Korean players to avoid terrible games. Yeah i know that. I just fail to see it from time to time So for you team based lock is not enough ? I am for any rule that keeps games interesting and gives new players a chance to shine. No rule is going to be perfect, but the current system has some real flaws. It is going to be a learning experience for everyone, and we should be open to the idea that no one knows the best way to do it. But that should stop people from trying and talking about it.
What you said here is really true. We'll have to see what they can come up with.
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On October 15 2013 23:23 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 23:19 FFW_Rude wrote:Well reading the responses to my posts were kind of sad. People have different expectation. What i write is what i think. Not what everybody thinks Just my opinion. I, for one want to see great players and best player. Sure i like some of the underdogs but i can relate that i root for Flash because i relate to him (i'm not korean, i'm bw zerg player) somehow. I should have wrote : "why on earth should I" and not "should you" (bad english is bad). What i wanted to say is that when BW was only korean people didn't really care of national heroes (because they were none/few). Foreigner wants foreigner is a thing that came with SC2 i feel. I don't want region lock to be based on country. I want region lock on teams. So Jaedong is EG, he plays in US, MVP is in IM, => Korea. ForGG is in millenium => EU. And i don't want a grand final between those 3. I want a 4year olympic style when there is region lock country. I think that would satisfy a lot of people (but maybe i'm wrong) I'm an old guy from BW So my heroes are koreans. Even if i'm not. I understand what you mean. It's difficult to argument in this language for me Well a lot of people aren't from BW and they don't have that level of attachment. People want to grow their local scene and that takes some rules and restrictions. No one want to see scrubs play in the finals. But we also don't need 16 top Korean players to avoid terrible games.
I have proved many times before that you don't need to go to such lengths to improve a locale scene and even then the focus is purely on the players because your viewership isn't going to drastically improve (in other words, it will be marginal) A lot of you guys have tunnel vision when it comes to such things as region locking or other format changes (for instance extended series). You see what other people are doing and you don't look at the big picture, which is problematic.
Here is what we know: the major Lans still get the biggest draws. You don't need three qualifiers going on during the same day. Give people one focal point (you can still have rebroadcasts/VODs). Have one roof where you will see ALL players. What we're talking about is a face lift rather than a complete makeover. Technically we already have a governing body although it's informal one. Blizzard could be creating more jobs but they don't realize it yet. If it's a complete makeover you want then I would turn every stone including normalizing team jerseys because let's face it. A lot of teams need help in this area and if you really want to start a movement well every major sport has the proper look. I'd make a few modifications like having the players country flag on their sleeves and this way the Pro Teams who do get accepted into the League have an official uniform to tell everyone else, "We're a SC2 League Team." We call it eye candy and for the sporadic viewer so they can identify National players right away. "Oh boy, he's from Sweden. That's where I'm from!" We call these unconscious triggers and they're more susceptible to give it ten seconds rather than five. Think Olympics here. Most people don't watch amateur sports, but they more susceptible to watch if it's their countryman and it is the Olympics after all. How many of you would go out of your way to watch a rowing race if it weren't the grandest stage of them all for amateur sport? Not very many. Of course you would have to use other channels as well, but I think you get the illustration.
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Yea LOL I always agree with Plansix guy has some sense
I am really anticipating to hear what they will come out with especially because blizzcon comes up soon and they want to announce it before blizzcon so Fingers crossed hopefully it will be something ground breaking
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On October 15 2013 22:55 Yakikorosu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 22:20 -Celestial- wrote:
To steal a phrase: "Blizzard, GSLs redde!" :-\
Removing the season finals is probably a good idea. As is cutting the number of WCSs. I don't know about everyone else but this year its felt like I've been unable to move for WCS and frankly I'd partly given up on trying to follow it all.
And to make it worse it came at the expense of "THE" premier tournament in GSL Code S which was reduced to hardly anything this year and was mixed in a mish-mash with the OSL for WCS Korea. I just want Code S properly back; WCS doesn't feel as elite as Code S was. Especially given that a lot of players just dispersed to other regions. I'd love for GOM to tell me otherwise, but I think it's a false assumption that the reduced role of the GSL is somehow to be blamed on Blizzard or WCS. The GSL has been scaled back repeatedly each year since SC2's release because SC2 has not been as popular in Korea as many expected. Since 2010, prize pools have been consistently shrinking even through the number of tournaments per year has been steadily decreasing. You only have to look at what kind of companies are sponsoring GSLs... we went from multinational corporations like Intel and Pepsi at the start to little-known Korean-only businesses like MangoSix and Jogunshop recently. At least some people seem to to assume, maybe unconsciously, that just because Blizzard is getting more involved in SC2 directly in recent years, and the role of the GSL has decreased, that the former is somehow causing the latter, and that the way to restore the GSL to its 2010-2011 glory (a new tournament almost every month, etc) is to kill WCS as much as possible, but frankly this seems unlikely. People should be thanking Blizzard for their involvement and thinking of constructive ways to improve the WCS system. My suggestion to Blizzard is to create a secondary (unrelated to WCS) tournament located IN Korea, for easy access to strong Korean players who are currently not able to show themselves because getting into WCS Premier League in Korea is so cutthroat. Run it however you want--it doesn't have to be a full "league" like WCS. Maybe it can be based on a system similar to IEM's. The key is to structure it so that it has a high turnover, so that we don't just end up seeing WCS Premier League players playing in two tournaments. Make sure that it has decent English-language production values so that non-Koreans could follow. This could decrease the rate at which the Korean scene is contracting by giving more players more opportunities to make a name for themselves and win prizes. EDIT: On an unrelated note, I think it's weird that some people are complaining that WCS 2013 is somehow "hard to follow" unless you refer to Liquipedia (or just the official WCS site) to check status. I am unaware of any major sport league that a person can easily follow without ever making reference to some sort of reference that shows standings, schedules, rosters, etc, so I'm not sure what the complaint is. Aside from some minor differences like slightly different Challenger League format, all the WCS leagues are just like the GSL!
yeah great points. A lot of people think if gsl/osl would still exist it would magically "save" korea, but the truth is there are no real sponsors for these tournaments. If anything Blizzard is the only reason we have GSL/OSL (as WCS korea, but still..) now. There is just no money in korea for sc2, its just way too small there
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The thing is it wouldn't Viper and that is a problem onto itself. Like I said before the Korean scene is already on Life Support.
On October 15 2013 18:13 kimaphan wrote:
We'd love to get your input on where else we should refocus resources in 2014. We can't address everything at once, but what do you think are the top priorities? Growing the overall WCS prize pool? Growing the BlizzCon prize pool? Support player travel to tournament events? League/player housing? Expanding to new regions? Supporting amateur and grassroots level play? Regional tournaments/leagues?
These are just some ideas on where we could focus our resources and are not listed in any particular order. Let us know what you think should be the top priorities!
On October 15 2013 19:45 looknohands119 wrote:Kim, I think that even in an individual based eSport like Starcraft has largely become, there's no reason why the team aspect can't be or shouldn't be highly emphasized. Its a big part of what makes the game and scene understandable, palatable, and attractive to the uninitiated. (See Xeris's awesome analysis on the reasons for the lack of stability and growth in Starcraft eSports and Carmac's analysis of how to bring stability and growth back to the scene.) A very compelling way of region locking WCS would be to require each team to choose a region and all of their players would have to compete in that region for the year. If the premier league was offline, then doing so would encourage the development of each regional scene, draw Korean pro-gamers to other regions which would help to transplant the Korean pro-gaming system of practice and management, and would allow the system to both promote and leverage teams rather than only individual personalities which would bring a lot more stability to the scene. Then, you could prioritize creating professional studio level production and funding housing for teams which would help professionalize the scene, decrease the barrier of entry for new teams, reward those teams that are successful not only with monetary help but also with a way to incentivize players to join them, and lay the groundwork for a bigger, more comprehensive future eSports system. You would obviously then need to be contacting teams rather than individual players about WCS things but really, that's the way it should be anyway. Teams own the rights to their players and act as their promoters/agents/representation. Most importantly, remember that big and fundamental changes to the way that Blizzard approaches eSports will probably be necessary to make something like WCS truly successful. Nobody, and I mean nobody gets it right on the first try. What makes companies successful in this crazy internet based world will never be their rate of success for individual attempts at reaching their goal(s) but rather their ability to quickly and accurately change the direction of their efforts or respond to the needs of their community to make things better. It's not about strength but about agility.
On the topic of funding teams. Remember what I said earlier about tunnel vision and not copying Riot (not to say they don't do some good things, but there is a lot of BAD things as well). Their system is far from ideal. I say this because I overheard help funding team houses. The teams have to be able to stand by themselves, but that doesn't mean we cannot have a support system and that's why I would like teams to get accredited & evaluated regularly so professionals looking to transition know where to look. We're not talking about qualifiers for a team league. We're talking about accrediting teams that have the proper resources to facilitate six to eight players. There's a criteria that has to be followed (I've used this analogy before but I'll say it again for those who missed it... think the BBB).
See what I underlined? MLG already understood that point. If I were to prioritize something especially under my format it would be to help support player travel. Second thing would be to support amateur and grassroots play. Never skip out on other regions.
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So basically its "we want to make more offline events for WCS but we can't do it atm" again. Because the tournament organizers are okay with the current situation and don't want to spend more I expect this situation will never change. Guaranteed slots for residents of a region are a start but unless they realy limit the slots of "outsiders" it will just delay the problem, instead of (for example) 4 koreans qualifying, we get 2 or 3, the rest next season.
With minor changes there will no increase in viewers, SC2 will continue to decline until LotV gives it a little boost again.
PS: If a players drops in just for the offline finals and talks for five minutes in a post match interview thats not what I would say is "getting to know him better" in a specific region. Thats also totally different from the foreigners who trained in korea or tried to qualify / played in GSL.
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On October 15 2013 22:46 Mauldo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 22:20 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 15 2013 22:17 FetusThrower wrote:On October 15 2013 22:13 purgerinho wrote:
changes are very good, without season finals there will be more prize money in finals, for sure and i hope there will be more tournaments that will fill the gap..
and i hope there will be some kind of region lock because it is so boring to watch wcs eu/na with 14/16 koreans in ro16 I really don't understand why people say that. It is so boring watching good people face eachother? Does race or the place you come from really affect the games? Sometimes it introduces new styles, sometimes it causes those who you want to win to struggle. OK, I get that people want their favorites to get far. If they're not as good, I don't see how you can blame someone who kicks their ass just because they are korean. Getting tired of this crap. Backing you up Proleague didn't have europeans or north american. All koreas (with few exceptions). It was the best starcraft we ever watched. I don't know why people complain. idra was good so we saw him in korean teams. Grrr kicked koreans ass. But... if i had to choose between, a boxer played match and a foreigner match... Why on earth would you chose the foreigner ? This has been a three year old debate on TL, and I'm tired of it being reduced to little more than "True fans" versus "Racists." Not everyone on TL are magical Starcraft 2 fans who want only the best games played. Sometimes we want to root for our hometown hero - it's how shitty football (both American and soccer) teams still have fans. How is this confusing? You guys sound like we're aliens coming in and trying to communicate some strange ritual sacrifice to you. We want to see our scene actually produce a champion to go to the regional finals - it gives us hope, no matter how ill-guided, that we aren't little more than a bank for Koreans to come by and withdraw some extra tournament winnings. Simply saying "get better" without any actual way for the NA pros to get better is the height of ignorance. How can they get better if the Koreans don't even have to practice on the NA server? Don't even have to commit to staying in America until the last weekend of the damn tourney? Everything about the WCS system was structured in a way that fed what little was left of the NA pros to the wolves. I'm not even saying that Koreans shouldn't be able to play in WCS America - I'm saying that if Blizzard wants to open up the only real source of potential competition for NA pros to outside dominance, then it should build safeguards into the system that gives them a fighting chance to get better. Right now it's "ride in, play a few games, get paid, and leave." There is no where in that list of steps that actually gives NA pros a source of competition that they can get better with, so they've floundered. And if wanting Blizzard to fix their system so that they CAN get better makes me a racist, then sure. That's exactly what I am.
Exactly this. This whole bullshit "If you don't want to watch Koreans play you're clearly racist" mentality is so extremely insulting.
The majority of things that they're saying they're going to do are going to be huge. I think we'll see a few Koreans move to North America and Europe, and we'll see more foreigners in bigger venues on well-produced tournaments. If there was a way for blizzard to incentivize teams to have team-houses or recruit Koreans onto their teams I think that would probably be the best thing. I don't think the Korean scene has the support for Starcraft 2 right now, losing teams and players is painful, but I don't think it means a death of the game, I think it means an expansion and spreading out of the talent, and I feel that will end up being for the best.
Remember, we're talking about increasing viewership here, not skill level. If you want to do that, you need to create a spectacle that combines all of the best parts of a sporting event, and you need to recognize that viewership will not be created on the backs of the Koreans.
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Seeing how most people want region lock, as much as I don't like the idea myself I think Blizzard should listen to the community. However if regions get locked, Korea should get noticeably! bigger price pool to make ''GSL'' once again the most prestigious tournament and slots for challenger league in Korea should be greatly increased for the sustainability of the Korean scene.
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On October 16 2013 00:04 Noobity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 22:46 Mauldo wrote:On October 15 2013 22:20 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 15 2013 22:17 FetusThrower wrote:On October 15 2013 22:13 purgerinho wrote:
changes are very good, without season finals there will be more prize money in finals, for sure and i hope there will be more tournaments that will fill the gap..
and i hope there will be some kind of region lock because it is so boring to watch wcs eu/na with 14/16 koreans in ro16 I really don't understand why people say that. It is so boring watching good people face eachother? Does race or the place you come from really affect the games? Sometimes it introduces new styles, sometimes it causes those who you want to win to struggle. OK, I get that people want their favorites to get far. If they're not as good, I don't see how you can blame someone who kicks their ass just because they are korean. Getting tired of this crap. Backing you up Proleague didn't have europeans or north american. All koreas (with few exceptions). It was the best starcraft we ever watched. I don't know why people complain. idra was good so we saw him in korean teams. Grrr kicked koreans ass. But... if i had to choose between, a boxer played match and a foreigner match... Why on earth would you chose the foreigner ? This has been a three year old debate on TL, and I'm tired of it being reduced to little more than "True fans" versus "Racists." Not everyone on TL are magical Starcraft 2 fans who want only the best games played. Sometimes we want to root for our hometown hero - it's how shitty football (both American and soccer) teams still have fans. How is this confusing? You guys sound like we're aliens coming in and trying to communicate some strange ritual sacrifice to you. We want to see our scene actually produce a champion to go to the regional finals - it gives us hope, no matter how ill-guided, that we aren't little more than a bank for Koreans to come by and withdraw some extra tournament winnings. Simply saying "get better" without any actual way for the NA pros to get better is the height of ignorance. How can they get better if the Koreans don't even have to practice on the NA server? Don't even have to commit to staying in America until the last weekend of the damn tourney? Everything about the WCS system was structured in a way that fed what little was left of the NA pros to the wolves. I'm not even saying that Koreans shouldn't be able to play in WCS America - I'm saying that if Blizzard wants to open up the only real source of potential competition for NA pros to outside dominance, then it should build safeguards into the system that gives them a fighting chance to get better. Right now it's "ride in, play a few games, get paid, and leave." There is no where in that list of steps that actually gives NA pros a source of competition that they can get better with, so they've floundered. And if wanting Blizzard to fix their system so that they CAN get better makes me a racist, then sure. That's exactly what I am. Exactly this. This whole bullshit "If you don't want to watch Koreans play you're clearly racist" mentality is so extremely insulting. The majority of things that they're saying they're going to do are going to be huge. I think we'll see a few Koreans move to North America and Europe, and we'll see more foreigners in bigger venues on well-produced tournaments. If there was a way for blizzard to incentivize teams to have team-houses or recruit Koreans onto their teams I think that would probably be the best thing. I don't think the Korean scene has the support for Starcraft 2 right now, losing teams and players is painful, but I don't think it means a death of the game, I think it means an expansion and spreading out of the talent, and I feel that will end up being for the best. Remember, we're talking about increasing viewership here, not skill level. If you want to do that, you need to create a spectacle that combines all of the best parts of a sporting event, and you need to recognize that viewership will not be created on the backs of the Koreans.
I never accused someone of racism. What are you talking about 
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It's their way of putting words in your mouth. It's a common trend. -_-
On October 16 2013 00:05 edlover420 wrote:
Seeing how most people want region lock, as much as I don't like the idea myself I think Blizzard should listen to the community. However if regions get locked, Korea should get noticeably! bigger price pool to make ''GSL'' once again the most prestigious tournament and slots for challenger league in Korea should be greatly increased for the sustainability of the Korean scene.
GSL and OSL should stand on their own. WCS should be separate. Give some reason for the Koreans to want to stay in Korea. Otherwise, there won't be much left there.
Also, Kim if you really want other regions to improve (pretty sure you haven't seen all my posts with regards to this so I think it's worth repeating) my answer would be to give these players more proverbial kicks at the can. This is one thing you sort of got with the idea of allowing players to pick which qualifiers they would compete in. I understood your team wanted them to reside there. If you want big gains in growth and development you pit those players against high level competition on a more regular basis. This is why I don't like the idea of region locks because it stunts their potential. Let me use an example and I think xPeke said it best. To paraphrase C9 could be one of the top five teams in the world if only they competed against other regions. The truth is we never really got to see this teams full potential because of a stupid format where they got directly seeded into the quarterfinals and received an early exit by the hand of fnatic. To paraphrase Meteos: NA LCS is trash; no one here plays Kassadin; no one here uses teleport. It's a very thin line. How do you change this? Make sure all players compete against one another more regularly. We're not talking about meeting them several times a year. No sir. I say increase the chances these players meet one another ten fold. Heck, if you guys really want to implement the Ladder in all this. Maybe there should be a Ladder Division where you can meet any player from any country (yeah we know there is lag between EU and KOREA but there should be something). The truth is you make the most noticeable gains when you are facing people who are better than you. We don't want players to develop bad habits. C9 and Fnatic weren't mentally prepared for one another. Sure you can discuss their strategies and try to prepare, but at the end of the day you never know until you actually play. At least we get this somewhat in the Dota2 scene at least between EU and NA. It's a little more global but the China scene and Korean scene which is a little more isolated. Hooray for TL in Korea, yay!
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On October 15 2013 23:19 FFW_Rude wrote:Well reading the responses to my posts were kind of sad. People have different expectation. What i write is what i think. Not what everybody thinks Just my opinion. I, for one want to see great players and best player. Sure i like some of the underdogs but i can relate that i root for Flash because i relate to him (i'm not korean, i'm bw zerg player) somehow. I should have wrote : "why on earth should I" and not "should you" (bad english is bad). What i wanted to say is that when BW was only korean people didn't really care of national heroes (because they were none/few). Foreigner wants foreigner is a thing that came with SC2 i feel. I don't want region lock to be based on country. I want region lock on teams. So Jaedong is EG, he plays in US, MVP is in IM, => Korea. ForGG is in millenium => EU. And i don't want a grand final between those 3. I want a 4year olympic style when there is region lock country. I think that would satisfy a lot of people (but maybe i'm wrong) I'm an old guy from BW So my heroes are koreans. Even if i'm not. I understand what you mean. It's difficult to argument in this language for me
I might be wrong, but I am pretty sure that the current TSL is foreigner only, and, if my memories were right, so were the TSL previously.
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On October 16 2013 00:10 StarStruck wrote:It's their way of putting words in your mouth. It's a common trend. -_- Show nested quote +On October 16 2013 00:05 edlover420 wrote:
Seeing how most people want region lock, as much as I don't like the idea myself I think Blizzard should listen to the community. However if regions get locked, Korea should get noticeably! bigger price pool to make ''GSL'' once again the most prestigious tournament and slots for challenger league in Korea should be greatly increased for the sustainability of the Korean scene. GSL and OSL should stand on their own. WCS should be separate. Give some reason for the Koreans to want to stay in Korea. Otherwise, there won't be much left there.
The racism line was broken out several times during the course of this thread. Never by FFW_Rude, though. But it is still a shitty, half assed argument people throw around to avoid making real arguments.
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When we launched WCS 2013, our main goal was to create a global system that was capable of identifying the undisputed, best StarCraft II player on the planet
well this is just lie. You don't do things that cost lots of money to give people a champion, a hero, out of sheer curiosity. You do it for more money. I'm ok with all that but please be honest Blizzard and do not treat us dumb, thanks.
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On October 16 2013 00:26 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +When we launched WCS 2013, our main goal was to create a global system that was capable of identifying the undisputed, best StarCraft II player on the planet well this is just lie. You don't do things that cost lots of money to give people a champion, a hero, out of sheer curiosity. You do it for more money. I'm ok with all that but please be honest Blizzard and do not treat us dumb, thanks.
They can do both you know. The NFL can be all about making the best games possible and making mad money. It's not binary.
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On October 16 2013 00:22 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 23:19 FFW_Rude wrote:Well reading the responses to my posts were kind of sad. People have different expectation. What i write is what i think. Not what everybody thinks Just my opinion. I, for one want to see great players and best player. Sure i like some of the underdogs but i can relate that i root for Flash because i relate to him (i'm not korean, i'm bw zerg player) somehow. I should have wrote : "why on earth should I" and not "should you" (bad english is bad). What i wanted to say is that when BW was only korean people didn't really care of national heroes (because they were none/few). Foreigner wants foreigner is a thing that came with SC2 i feel. I don't want region lock to be based on country. I want region lock on teams. So Jaedong is EG, he plays in US, MVP is in IM, => Korea. ForGG is in millenium => EU. And i don't want a grand final between those 3. I want a 4year olympic style when there is region lock country. I think that would satisfy a lot of people (but maybe i'm wrong) I'm an old guy from BW So my heroes are koreans. Even if i'm not. I understand what you mean. It's difficult to argument in this language for me I might be wrong, but I am pretty sure that the current TSL is foreigner only, and, if my memories were right, so were the TSL previously.
TSL happened 2times in BW. Proleague, MSL,OSL happened much more. but yeah TSL was foreigner only i think you are right
On October 16 2013 00:22 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2013 00:10 StarStruck wrote:It's their way of putting words in your mouth. It's a common trend. -_- On October 16 2013 00:05 edlover420 wrote:
Seeing how most people want region lock, as much as I don't like the idea myself I think Blizzard should listen to the community. However if regions get locked, Korea should get noticeably! bigger price pool to make ''GSL'' once again the most prestigious tournament and slots for challenger league in Korea should be greatly increased for the sustainability of the Korean scene. GSL and OSL should stand on their own. WCS should be separate. Give some reason for the Koreans to want to stay in Korea. Otherwise, there won't be much left there. The racism line was broken out several times during the course of this thread. Never by FFW_Rude, though. But it is still a shitty, half assed argument people throw around to avoid making real arguments.
Thanks for the support I don't even know how you could be a racist gamer...
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Ignoring the major reasons why SC2 is doing poorly + thinking WCS is largely a success and only need a few tweeks is a sad statement on Blizzard's understanding of the scene.
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Yea in fact what they thought was by making the best games and crowning a true champ that it would Naturally make them more money and have more support for their events....
I don't think anyone that is suggesting region lock is racist against Koreans in fact I think we revere them and their skill and would like to see MORE of their raw talent and showcase their talents against eachother rather than just simply crushing people that aren't as good in foreign tournaments and just taking their talent with them back to korea when they've mopped up the place.
Which is shown by what plansix has said in the past I don't think anyone dislikes the fact Polt lives in USA now and we all support and love him for being here but thats because he STAYS here and betters the scene here just by keeping his talent in the USA and adding to our scene
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On October 16 2013 00:22 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 23:19 FFW_Rude wrote:Well reading the responses to my posts were kind of sad. People have different expectation. What i write is what i think. Not what everybody thinks Just my opinion. I, for one want to see great players and best player. Sure i like some of the underdogs but i can relate that i root for Flash because i relate to him (i'm not korean, i'm bw zerg player) somehow. I should have wrote : "why on earth should I" and not "should you" (bad english is bad). What i wanted to say is that when BW was only korean people didn't really care of national heroes (because they were none/few). Foreigner wants foreigner is a thing that came with SC2 i feel. I don't want region lock to be based on country. I want region lock on teams. So Jaedong is EG, he plays in US, MVP is in IM, => Korea. ForGG is in millenium => EU. And i don't want a grand final between those 3. I want a 4year olympic style when there is region lock country. I think that would satisfy a lot of people (but maybe i'm wrong) I'm an old guy from BW So my heroes are koreans. Even if i'm not. I understand what you mean. It's difficult to argument in this language for me I might be wrong, but I am pretty sure that the current TSL is foreigner only, and, if my memories were right, so were the TSL previously.
Yes they were because Foreigners weren't Pro Gamers. They were amateurs. The KeSPA players had proper certification back then. In other words, you either were handed one of two licenses a year from the managers or you won Courage and got drafted. These licenses were permanent.
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EPT
