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I'm seeing a lot of comments from people who are disappointed that we did not share the exact plans for WCS 2014. To clarify, we did not intend for this to be an announcement, or an announcement of an announcement for that matter  The reality is that we are still finalizing the details of WCS 2014 with our partners, however, we did not want to wait until everything was finalized before letting you know some of the things we were discussing. We want to give the community an opportunity to provide feedback before we locked down the specific details. We have outlined most of our plans and ideas in some of our answers, but haven't fully committed to any of the decisions because we want to hear from the community. Our goal is to confirm and announce the plans for WCS 2014 before BlizzCon. That gives you at least a week to give us your input on what we've shared! Thanks again for your support! -kimaphan |
On October 15 2013 22:20 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 22:17 FetusThrower wrote:On October 15 2013 22:13 purgerinho wrote:
changes are very good, without season finals there will be more prize money in finals, for sure and i hope there will be more tournaments that will fill the gap..
and i hope there will be some kind of region lock because it is so boring to watch wcs eu/na with 14/16 koreans in ro16 I really don't understand why people say that. It is so boring watching good people face eachother? Does race or the place you come from really affect the games? Sometimes it introduces new styles, sometimes it causes those who you want to win to struggle. OK, I get that people want their favorites to get far. If they're not as good, I don't see how you can blame someone who kicks their ass just because they are korean. Getting tired of this crap. Backing you up Proleague didn't have europeans or north american. All koreas (with few exceptions). It was the best starcraft we ever watched. I don't know why people complain. idra was good so we saw him in korean teams. Grrr kicked koreans ass. But... if i had to choose between, a boxer played match and a foreigner match... Why on earth would you chose the foreigner ?
You should understand that people are not attracted by the most skilled players. More precisely, they surely want to see good games, but for people under master level a game played by two high level foreigners is informative and entertaining in the same way of a game between two top tier koreans.
Instead, what people really want when they see a tournament is to root for someone. But rooting for someone implies some sort of link with that person (nationality, personality, ...). People want to cheer for someone they can feel as "one of us".
So it is normal that the majority of foreigner audience want to cheer for foreigners. Maybe on TL this is not evidence because the active posters are, in average, more sensible to good play and so they are more supportive to koreans, but i think that the evidence of the large increase in viewers number when a foreigner reach the last rounds of some important tournament is more than enough to convince you that some sort of region locking is necessary to keep the fanbase interested.
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I think WCS EU has had it relatively good with the ratio of fan favourites to Korean talent. So this is really a matter for the WCS NA scene. How to create a solution and opportunity for the NA scene that doesn't constrict the EU one? Can you really make one decision that would further both situations and both scenes?
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On October 15 2013 22:35 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 22:29 Zackeva wrote:On October 15 2013 22:20 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 15 2013 22:17 FetusThrower wrote:On October 15 2013 22:13 purgerinho wrote:
changes are very good, without season finals there will be more prize money in finals, for sure and i hope there will be more tournaments that will fill the gap..
and i hope there will be some kind of region lock because it is so boring to watch wcs eu/na with 14/16 koreans in ro16 I really don't understand why people say that. It is so boring watching good people face eachother? Does race or the place you come from really affect the games? Sometimes it introduces new styles, sometimes it causes those who you want to win to struggle. OK, I get that people want their favorites to get far. If they're not as good, I don't see how you can blame someone who kicks their ass just because they are korean. Getting tired of this crap. Backing you up Proleague didn't have europeans or north american. All koreas (with few exceptions). It was the best starcraft we ever watched. I don't know why people complain. idra was good so we saw him in korean teams. Grrr kicked koreans ass. But... if i had to choose between, a boxer played match and a foreigner match... Why on earth would you chose the foreigner ? If the foreigners are as or more skilled, there should be no difference. I don't care if the players are korean or not, as long as they are sympathetic and good players, and it's silly of people to do... Exactly. You don't watch a bad player because he is a foreigner. You watch good player no matter their nationality. Am i good ?
It's not binary, we can do both. We don't need to smoother up and coming players with a wave of high level Korean pros in every event. But we can have events with the best of the best. We can have the NFL and college football.
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mh is it worth to read or is it just standard blizzard circlejerking
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this interview is nonsense...
no solutions, all acknowledgements...
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On October 15 2013 22:20 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 22:17 FetusThrower wrote:On October 15 2013 22:13 purgerinho wrote:
changes are very good, without season finals there will be more prize money in finals, for sure and i hope there will be more tournaments that will fill the gap..
and i hope there will be some kind of region lock because it is so boring to watch wcs eu/na with 14/16 koreans in ro16 I really don't understand why people say that. It is so boring watching good people face eachother? Does race or the place you come from really affect the games? Sometimes it introduces new styles, sometimes it causes those who you want to win to struggle. OK, I get that people want their favorites to get far. If they're not as good, I don't see how you can blame someone who kicks their ass just because they are korean. Getting tired of this crap. Backing you up Proleague didn't have europeans or north american. All koreas (with few exceptions). It was the best starcraft we ever watched. I don't know why people complain. idra was good so we saw him in korean teams. Grrr kicked koreans ass. But... if i had to choose between, a boxer played match and a foreigner match... Why on earth would you chose the foreigner ?
This has been a three year old debate on TL, and I'm tired of it being reduced to little more than "True fans" versus "Racists."
Not everyone on TL are magical Starcraft 2 fans who want only the best games played. Sometimes we want to root for our hometown hero - it's how shitty football (both American and soccer) teams still have fans. How is this confusing?
You guys sound like we're aliens coming in and trying to communicate some strange ritual sacrifice to you. We want to see our scene actually produce a champion to go to the regional finals - it gives us hope, no matter how ill-guided, that we aren't little more than a bank for Koreans to come by and withdraw some extra tournament winnings.
Simply saying "get better" without any actual way for the NA pros to get better is the height of ignorance. How can they get better if the Koreans don't even have to practice on the NA server? Don't even have to commit to staying in America until the last weekend of the damn tourney?
Everything about the WCS system was structured in a way that fed what little was left of the NA pros to the wolves. I'm not even saying that Koreans shouldn't be able to play in WCS America - I'm saying that if Blizzard wants to open up the only real source of potential competition for NA pros to outside dominance, then it should build safeguards into the system that gives them a fighting chance to get better.
Right now it's "ride in, play a few games, get paid, and leave." There is no where in that list of steps that actually gives NA pros a source of competition that they can get better with, so they've floundered. And if wanting Blizzard to fix their system so that they CAN get better makes me a racist, then sure. That's exactly what I am.
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Thanks for your attention and your interest, first of all.
Some opinions of mine in order of importance.
1 I'd like to express once more the necessity to support lesser events, since they are the ones who will help the continuity of the sc2 scene. Every good player started from the bottom, the future Naniwas and Stephanos need support.
WCS may create storylines, smaller events create a player base: since every player soon or later retires (Stephano/MKP/Idra/whoever brought a ton of viewers by his own presence), this feels like a fundamental issue.
2 Unlike other users I believe that team should be supported, but if you happened to thinking about giving more points to the players whose team perform well I think that is wrong since some players aren't on a strong team while being sick good.
Having however the teams whose players perform well in wcs be rewarded in some way seems great.
3 I have a minor issue about something about WCS points, namely  Revival being invited to IEM New York as a replacement, skipping the qualifiers, losing all but one match and be rewarded with 150 wcs points that made him currently jump on the list of guys who will attend Blizzcon.
However I'm not sure that you are involved in this, nor I'm blaming you in any sort of way.
It's just a reminder that something so rare and unpleaseant could happen again, so watch out if you can ^^
4 I also think that LAN support could be implemented: if you really hate the idea of me playing with my cousin with two regular copies of the game without having to be on internet I can still fake understanding, but imagine someone disconnecting at Blizzcon live or during WCS events.
Thanks again for your attention.
+ Show Spoiler +Btw I thought that the new portraits for the players are really cool. Currently using cheerleader Kerrigan.
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On October 15 2013 22:20 -Celestial- wrote:
To steal a phrase: "Blizzard, GSLs redde!" :-\
Removing the season finals is probably a good idea. As is cutting the number of WCSs. I don't know about everyone else but this year its felt like I've been unable to move for WCS and frankly I'd partly given up on trying to follow it all.
And to make it worse it came at the expense of "THE" premier tournament in GSL Code S which was reduced to hardly anything this year and was mixed in a mish-mash with the OSL for WCS Korea. I just want Code S properly back; WCS doesn't feel as elite as Code S was. Especially given that a lot of players just dispersed to other regions.
I'd love for GOM to tell me otherwise, but I think it's a false assumption that the reduced role of the GSL is somehow to be blamed on Blizzard or WCS. The GSL has been scaled back repeatedly each year since SC2's release because SC2 has not been as popular in Korea as many expected. Since 2010, prize pools have been consistently shrinking even through the number of tournaments per year has been steadily decreasing. You only have to look at what kind of companies are sponsoring GSLs... we went from multinational corporations like Intel and Pepsi at the start to little-known Korean-only businesses like MangoSix and Jogunshop recently.
At least some people seem to to assume, maybe unconsciously, that just because Blizzard is getting more involved in SC2 directly in recent years, and the role of the GSL has decreased, that the former is somehow causing the latter, and that the way to restore the GSL to its 2010-2011 glory (a new tournament almost every month, etc) is to kill WCS as much as possible, but frankly this seems unlikely. People should be thanking Blizzard for their involvement and thinking of constructive ways to improve the WCS system.
My suggestion to Blizzard is to create a secondary (unrelated to WCS) tournament located IN Korea, for easy access to strong Korean players who are currently not able to show themselves because getting into WCS Premier League in Korea is so cutthroat. Run it however you want--it doesn't have to be a full "league" like WCS. Maybe it can be based on a system similar to IEM's. The key is to structure it so that it has a high turnover, so that we don't just end up seeing WCS Premier League players playing in two tournaments. Make sure that it has decent English-language production values so that non-Koreans could follow. This could decrease the rate at which the Korean scene is contracting by giving more players more opportunities to make a name for themselves and win prizes.
EDIT: On an unrelated note, I think it's weird that some people are complaining that WCS 2013 is somehow "hard to follow" unless you refer to Liquipedia (or just the official WCS site) to check status. I am unaware of any major sport league that a person can easily follow without ever making reference to some sort of reference that shows standings, schedules, rosters, etc, so I'm not sure what the complaint is. Aside from some minor differences like slightly different Challenger League format, all the WCS leagues are just like the GSL!
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If you are going to make there only 3 seasons you need to increase the prizepool by like 50% for each tournament to make it worthwhile. Money increase is key. I don't like the idea of region locking for nationals either it is just plain bad.
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First of all, I'd like to explicitly state that I was really happy with the Q&A. For me, WCS2014 went from "Anything could happen" to "These are the decisions that have been made and these are not finalized". I now know what we don't know and what we do know. I really appreciate it. Also, a Blizz representative discussing with us in the thread, makes me all happy and giddy inside You ask for our feedback, so here's mine (I'm sorry for the length; I'm not too good at being concise)
I would like to take a slightly different point of view for the discussion. Looking back at the start of 2013, it seems that the purpose of WCS EU/AM was to create a GSL-style league in Europe and America. Also, the purpose of WCS was to have a truly global league with a world champion at the end. However, at some point, those two were mixed up more than they needed to be, I think.
WCS EU/AM was great for EU and AM because it did indeed introduce a GSL-like league to the two regions. I would consider that a huge success and I certainly want to see that grow. However, for Korea, it became kind of a weird move. Korea already had a GSL, so they didn't need a GSL-like system implemented once more with WCS and the result became this weird WCS/GSL/OSL entanglement that didn't really work out, in my opinion. I think the uniqueness of the regions got overridden by the desire to have a uniform system all across the globe, where the same uniform system was not the best solution for every region. Based on that, I would like to propose that the WCS system doesn't have to be exactly the same in all regions. Instead of a top-down solution where Blizzard enforces a set system on the tournament organizers, I think it would be better with a bottom-up solution where Blizzard encourages what is already there or adds to it, like with the GSL-style WCS EU/AM, which was a successful addition to a scene which used to have only week-end LANs. If it ain't broke...
For Korea, I'd like to see less obvious involvement of Blizz in the GSL and OSL themselves. Instead of having the weird WCS/GSL/OSL entanglement, I think the leagues could exist on their own and then feed into WCS in a way that does not override the GSL and OSL brands, as it were. So the storyline is not "Player X became the WCS champion through GSL or OSL" but instead "Now, the champions from GSL and OSL will meet and compete for the title of WCS Champion". This meeting of GSL and OSL finals could be either a regional KR final or maybe they wouldn't actually meet until the World Finals.
(Also, I say "less obvious involvement" because it's pretty obvious that GOM and OGN are at their throats and that we, the public, can never know how much influence Blizzard has had over that, nor can we know how much influence Blizz will need to continue to exert. But just make it look like they're friends and let them do their thing, tournament-wise, and we'll all be happy even though we don't appreciate how muddy the relations might be. But I digress)
For Europe and America, Blizzard could continue or even perhaps step up their WCS production with ESL and NASL. Increasing production value, making it easier for players to visit/live by the studios etc. I don't know the details of how that actually works today, so I'm not going to make any detailed suggestions, but building up WCS EU/AM as the "GSL's of Europe and America" is the way to go, I think.
As for the the World Finals, I think it might be beneficial with several different routes to it; one route is by becoming a champion of a long-going tournament and another is to have gained enough points. The intuitions are there and in 2013 they were ensured by the spread of points. Having a massive amount of points for the finalists ensured that they were going to Blizzcon. However, it comes down to a very delicate act of balancing: Are we absolutely sure that the points are spread among all the different tournaments in order to ensure that the champions of those tournaments go to Blizzcon while a player who wins or places high in those and those tournaments also get a chance etc. It does work to a certain degree, but why not ensure it directly? One road to the WCS Finals is becoming a Champion, another is getting enough points. I think it could work.
Speaking of different roads to the Finals, I was surprised to see that Copa América was not included in the WCS ecosystem. I was so sure that you were trying to prepare it for inclusion for 2014. However, what about having a "back entrance" into the Finals for those regions that do not have a dedicated WCS region, or perhaps even for prestigious tournaments that are clearly outside the existing WCS ecosystem? So one or two of the slots for the Finals are dedicated to "up-and-coming" regions. Perhaps there could be a special tournament for the champions of Copa América, Vengeance Cup, TeSL, Chinese Leagues etc, from which the winner(s) go on to the WCS Finals. It would serve two goals: 1) Those cups, regions and scenes would not feel left out and the WCS would feel truly global again, and 2) it would encourage grassroots movements to keep up the quality of their tournaments or even encourage new tournaments to start up, knowing that if they become prestigious, they might become a part of WCS in a small way. I think it's great that Blizzard supports grassroots movements the way they do and hope that they will continue to do it.
Then to address the point you've surely been thinking about while reading this post: Streamlining. This doesn't seem very streamlined at all, while, on the other hand, one set of simple WCS points seems much more streamlined. However, I'd like to argue that my proposed system can indeed seem more streamlined than the points system of today. The system I propose has many roads to the Finals while the system of WCS2013 has (to continue the metaphor) one huge road with lots of lanes. You can't simply watch your specific player battling it out in his lane, you have to keep an eye on all the lanes. Does Player X go to Blizzcon? Well, that depends on what Player Y does in tournament I, player Z does in tournament J and player P does in tournament K. There is no way to follow simply a small part of the scene. It's all or nothing. With the system I propose, it's much easier to know for sure what's going on. Did player X win GSL? Yes, then he's going to Blizzcon. It's streamlined. Moreover, since another path to the Finals is through points, we will still get the "NaNiwa effect of IEM". Perhaps NaNiwa didn't win WCS EU 2014. Perhaps his only hope is to take another road to the Finals, and that road is winning IEM in 2014. It's still the same excitement and opportunities. The only change is that there are more roads to the Finals and there's a greater freedom in deciding who will get to go there because the points are not the end-all be-all of who gets to go. With that freedom, Blizz can ensure that the WCS Finals 2014 won't be another almost All-Korean tournament.
So there are 5 roads to the WCS Finals:
1) WCS Korea: Winning GSL or OSL
2) WCS Europe: Winning the tournament called WCS Europe
3) WCS America: Winning the tournament called WCS America
4) Gaining enough WCS points through competing in LANs like DreamHack, IEM etc. (or possibly also gaining WCS points within GSL/OSL/WCS EU/AM)
5) Competing in established prestigious region-specific tournaments; the "back entrance"
These are the competitors at the WCS Finals:
1) GSL Champion
2) Other top placing GSL player (perhaps season 2 winner or 2nd place?)
3) OSL Champion
4) Other top placing OSL player (perhaps season 2 winner or 2nd place?)
5) WCS EU Champion
6) Champion of prestigious region-locked European tournament? (Guaranteed non-Korean)
7) WCS AM Champion
8) Champion of prestigious region-locked American tournament? (Guaranteed non-Korean)
9) #1 ranked WCS Points
10) #2 ranked WCS Points
11) #3 ranked WCS Points
12) #4 ranked WCS Points
13) #5 ranked WCS Points
14) #6 ranked WCS Points
15) TeSL Champion (Guaranteed non-Korean)
16) Champion of the tournament between the winners of Copa América, Vengeance Cup, other regional cups etc. (Guaranteed non-Korean)
It's not perfect (like what to do to make the first season og GSL important in respect to the Finals), but a lot of problems could be solved through adjustment of player numbers for the Finals or adjustments for which slots go to what or possibly by giving WCS points within GSL/OSL/WCS EU/WCS AM as well. Perhaps it's possible for a guy who's placed 3rd in all three (or more) seasons of GSL to have enough points to go to the Finals. I don't have all the details thought out, but those are my thoughts at least. Also, by leaving the options open, one could, for instance, include prestigious tournaments that shape up during the next year. Like for instance if a US/Canada nationals-only cup starts up in February and becomes super-awesome by July, one could grant its winner a slot for the finals because there's a way around the WCS points.
Those are my two cents. Hope they contribute in some way (And sorry, again, for the length)
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On October 15 2013 08:54 MysterySC wrote:Hmmmmm, to bad so little info is in this Q and A 
Exactly......
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Oh wow, what a disappointing article.
Had really hoped for more.
And so few actual infos on such a long article, it's ridiculous.
For those that search for a TL;Dr: Nothing big will change, only very small changes, maybe to challenger etc., but Blizz does not know which ones yet.
Again, so disappointing.
WCS ruining the Korean and American SC2 scene... This monopoly has the potential to kill SC2, see the last year. Hope Blizzard rethinks this again. I really fear for my beloved Starcraft.
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I appreciate the write-up but feel there was little to know substance in the responses from Blizz. I feel like there's an all around lack of sense of urgency on their part when, based on how SC2 is trending against the competition, there should be tremendous urgency.
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As an aussie I wish there would be something closer to the 'Ocieanic' region.
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On October 15 2013 23:07 Caladan wrote:Oh wow, what a disappointing article. Had really hoped for more. And so few actual infos on such a long article, it's ridiculous. For those that search for a TL;Dr: Nothing big will change, only very small changes, maybe to challenger etc., but Blizz does not know which ones yet. Again, so disappointing. WCS ruining the Korean and American SC2 scene... This monopoly has the potential to kill SC2, see the last year. Hope Blizzard rethinks this again. I really fear for my beloved Starcraft.
Naz'Gul's post pretty much does breaks it down for you. Stuff is still I the works. Blizzard also posted a bunch of responses in the thread.
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Is Blizzard considering extremely drastic changes to the WCS format for 2014? To be specific, a change on the magnitude of what happened between 2012 and 2013?
This is something we’ve considered and discussed at length internally and with our tournament partners. That said, we’re happy with the general direction of WCS and have decided that 2014 is not the year to make drastic changes but instead make improvements to what we currently have established.
Lol
User was warned for this post
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Well reading the responses to my posts were kind of sad.
People have different expectation. What i write is what i think. Not what everybody thinks Just my opinion.
I, for one want to see great players and best player. Sure i like some of the underdogs but i can relate that i root for Flash because i relate to him (i'm not korean, i'm bw zerg player) somehow.
I should have wrote : "why on earth should I" and not "should you" (bad english is bad).
What i wanted to say is that when BW was only korean people didn't really care of national heroes (because they were none/few). Foreigner wants foreigner is a thing that came with SC2 i feel.
I don't want region lock to be based on country. I want region lock on teams. So Jaedong is EG, he plays in US, MVP is in IM, => Korea. ForGG is in millenium => EU.
And i don't want a grand final between those 3. I want a 4year olympic style when there is region lock country. I think that would satisfy a lot of people (but maybe i'm wrong)
I'm an old guy from BW So my heroes are koreans. Even if i'm not. I understand what you mean. It's difficult to argument in this language for me 
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On October 15 2013 23:19 FFW_Rude wrote:Well reading the responses to my posts were kind of sad. People have different expectation. What i write is what i think. Not what everybody thinks Just my opinion. I, for one want to see great players and best player. Sure i like some of the underdogs but i can relate that i root for Flash because i relate to him (i'm not korean, i'm bw zerg player) somehow. I should have wrote : "why on earth should I" and not "should you" (bad english is bad). What i wanted to say is that when BW was only korean people didn't really care of national heroes (because they were none/few). Foreigner wants foreigner is a thing that came with SC2 i feel. I don't want region lock to be based on country. I want region lock on teams. So Jaedong is EG, he plays in US, MVP is in IM, => Korea. ForGG is in millenium => EU. And i don't want a grand final between those 3. I want a 4year olympic style when there is region lock country. I think that would satisfy a lot of people (but maybe i'm wrong) I'm an old guy from BW So my heroes are koreans. Even if i'm not. I understand what you mean. It's difficult to argument in this language for me
Well a lot of people aren't from BW and they don't have that level of attachment. People want to grow their local scene and that takes some rules and restrictions. No one want to see scrubs play in the finals. But we also don't need 16 top Korean players to avoid terrible games.
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On October 15 2013 23:23 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 23:19 FFW_Rude wrote:Well reading the responses to my posts were kind of sad. People have different expectation. What i write is what i think. Not what everybody thinks Just my opinion. I, for one want to see great players and best player. Sure i like some of the underdogs but i can relate that i root for Flash because i relate to him (i'm not korean, i'm bw zerg player) somehow. I should have wrote : "why on earth should I" and not "should you" (bad english is bad). What i wanted to say is that when BW was only korean people didn't really care of national heroes (because they were none/few). Foreigner wants foreigner is a thing that came with SC2 i feel. I don't want region lock to be based on country. I want region lock on teams. So Jaedong is EG, he plays in US, MVP is in IM, => Korea. ForGG is in millenium => EU. And i don't want a grand final between those 3. I want a 4year olympic style when there is region lock country. I think that would satisfy a lot of people (but maybe i'm wrong) I'm an old guy from BW So my heroes are koreans. Even if i'm not. I understand what you mean. It's difficult to argument in this language for me Well a lot of people aren't from BW and they don't have that level of attachment. People want to grow their local scene and that takes some rules and restrictions. No one want to see scrubs play in the finals. But we also don't need 16 top Korean players to avoid terrible games.
Yeah i know that. I just fail to see it from time to time
So for you team based lock is not enough ?
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I think your Idea is a beautiful one FFW_Rude. It would make more sense it would also give players opportunity to switch regions if they join another team which also could create almost a Player trading or draft which is what makes everything more exciting in Football and other events
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EPT
