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I'm seeing a lot of comments from people who are disappointed that we did not share the exact plans for WCS 2014. To clarify, we did not intend for this to be an announcement, or an announcement of an announcement for that matter  The reality is that we are still finalizing the details of WCS 2014 with our partners, however, we did not want to wait until everything was finalized before letting you know some of the things we were discussing. We want to give the community an opportunity to provide feedback before we locked down the specific details. We have outlined most of our plans and ideas in some of our answers, but haven't fully committed to any of the decisions because we want to hear from the community. Our goal is to confirm and announce the plans for WCS 2014 before BlizzCon. That gives you at least a week to give us your input on what we've shared! Thanks again for your support! -kimaphan |
On October 15 2013 15:43 Yakikorosu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 15:39 looknohands119 wrote:On October 15 2013 15:23 Yakikorosu wrote:On October 15 2013 15:21 looknohands119 wrote:
HOLYSHIT! Why is no one talking about 3 leagues per region? That would mean that GSL and OSL are coming back! Sorry, that's not what that means. It's not 3 leagues per reason, it's just 3 leagues, like we have now. NA, EU, KR. You can tell because prior to that bullet it says that this will "still" exist (i.e., it already exists now). I'm not talking about 3 wcs leagues per region. I'm talking about 3 leagues per region (where WCS is one of the 3 for each region). That is definitely the way that was worded. And that definitely seems to indicate that GSL and OSL are coming back. Who would be the third league in NA? Probably NASL or MLG. Who knows, but either way, its a pretty exciting prospect. If you are right, I'd be very happy, but unfortunately I think that part of the Q&A is just not worded perfectly. Here's what it says: "The following will still exist: There will be three leagues operating in each of the existing regions – America, Europe, and Korea" Grammatically, I agree that this reads like there are three leagues in EACH OF the three regions, but I think the statement should have been written with a comma after the word "leagues." So the "three leagues" are just the three WCS regions. Two reasons why I'm pretty sure my reading is right: 1) The bolded words "will still exist." So the Q&A is referring to something that already exists NOW. There are definitely not three leagues in each region now. 2) If Blizzard was really announcing that there'll be three separate leagues in EACH region (so nine leagues total), that would be a centerpoint of the post, as that would be a huge announcement. It wouldn't be buried in a bullet halfway through the Q&A.
Yes, I think some clarification is necessary here. Kim, can you clear this wording question up for us?
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Netherlands4520 Posts
It will be 3 leagues in 3 regions. 1 league per region.... there ya go...just as it is now.
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I'm surprised so many people are for regions that are locked by residency. To me, you're either on one side of the fence or the other. Regions locked by residency only solves the problem of teams deliberating over what players to pick up... It's one of those politically correct answers you give, because you don't want to seem extreme/bigoted. When you realize full well, that while it might not be a huge deal the first year, eventually you're going to end up with the same amount of Koreans if not more, and you will have to make another decision. Kicking the can down the road or w/e lame term...
I'd rather people be opposed to any kind of region lock than act like that's the solution.
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I just want to know how they're going to ensure their players can get Visas, or if they can't get their visa by a certain deadline, promote players who can legally travel instead of walkovers.
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On October 15 2013 15:39 Liquid`Ret wrote:
I think that TL.net needs to be a place for constructive feedback, all of this hate is not contributing anything.
Blizzard is right here in this thread, use it!
Truth. This is one of the few times we KNOW one of the decision makers in Blizzard eSports is reading the thread. This is not a time to go full youtube comments. (Or even reddit comments.)
That being said, I think we're most interested in the region locking portion, and what changes are being made to the feed in to Premier League.
I think the Challenger league still could work but it might require (in the AM/EU regions at least) more of the "feed in to the feeder" tournaments, like the conglomeration of events that makes up "Code B" in the GSL. It's fine to have a Premier (Code S), a Challenger (Code A), but it needs that lower level underpinning of the Code B to support it. Some things I've seen give hope that maybe in the AM region that could happen, but only if we get more people running small tournaments (like, for example, the guys at the LA car dealership (awesome, btw)) and having those provide opportunities into the bigger tournaments. Let's face it, even WCS "Tier 2/3" tournaments are not going to be lace with unknowns because these events need big names to draw people to support their events. Smaller, more regional events would be good, but we need people to put them together and possibly support from Blizzard to help make it worthwhile. (I have no idea how that would work. Might be why it hasn't happened yet - there are still details to work out in making it happen and finding people that want to get it running. There are only so many people willing to organize a TESPA or NESL or CSL.)
As for region locking - I like a soft region lock, with it only applying to players that have a region - or finding a way to get assistance to the people that are "regionless" to enable them to compete in the region they want to join. There are obvious legal hurdles for anyone trying a long term stay in foreign territory (visas) but also accommodation and travel costs. Increasing the amount of offline play would be cool, but you have to keep in mind the costs in trying to put even one person in one place for a long time period. (If you want to avoid the weekend or week long sprint to the finals we get now.) That's probably a subject best discussed between Blizzard and team owners, though - nothing I can really add to it except I hope these considerations are being kept in mind.
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On October 15 2013 15:51 Gospadin wrote:
I just want to know how they're going to ensure their players can get Visas, or if they can't get their visa by a certain deadline, promote players who can legally travel instead of walkovers.
That's where requiring that the players live in the region in which they play in is a good idea ;D
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Less Koreans, more foreigners. I liked the 2012 version better
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On October 15 2013 15:53 aike wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 15:51 Gospadin wrote:
I just want to know how they're going to ensure their players can get Visas, or if they can't get their visa by a certain deadline, promote players who can legally travel instead of walkovers. That's where requiring that the players live in the region in which they play in is a good idea ;D
To be honest, I'd have to sit down with an immigration lawyer to figure out what visas apply to whom and if they're correct for the activities they're engaging in - I mean Polt is in the US studying, but what visa is in play? There are restrictions on student visas, and I have no idea where "professional StarCraft player" falls in that context. Could EG bring Jaedong in on an H1-B visa? (I think, out of most uses that one gets, he's probably a poster child for "can't fill with local citizen due to lack of qualified candidates".)
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On October 15 2013 15:51 Gospadin wrote:
I just want to know how they're going to ensure their players can get Visas, or if they can't get their visa by a certain deadline, promote players who can legally travel instead of walkovers.
That reminds me one specific suggestion I have to improve WCS in 2014: when a player drops out of a WCS event beforehand, don't just give players walkovers! Do like GSL always did and hold some kind of "special tournament" to fill the spot. It doesn't have to be offline or casted. This happened all the time in NA Challenger League in particular, with people qualifying and dropping out or retiring, but I'd do it in all cases. So for example, when viOLet couldn't attend the RO16, hold a special single elimination bracket tournament among the 8 players who finished third in the RO32 and give them viOLet's spot. I know it would be on short notice, and might not be the most pristine competition, but it's better than having walkovers!
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I wish Blizzard would drop the UFC style of trying to promote themselves are the owners of "the premier" league. I think the hate is being generated by Blizzards hostile take over of the scene. I've severely lost a lot of attention for starcraft because I can't watch tournaments every weekend like we use to. I'm tired of seeing the same pros in the Premier/Challenger leagues.I want new blood, whether in Blizzards leagues or any other tournaments. I think everyone is forgetting that in order to sustain the scene we need to look to the future rather then nurturing the past or even present stars.
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This upcoming lock should be based upon citizenship. Residency is not enough. I don't want to see TB's and ACER's horde of players to come and win WCS EU / NA
What I'd like to see is Destiny, Suppy, State, Catz, Hendralisk and Mewby fighting on equal footing for the NA spot EVEN if this is going to be for sure a less skilled tournament than WCS KR/EU. If you think they don't deserve the same amount of money as Koreans, I'am sure they wouldn't mind if they had just the chance to compete and shine. This is how the region can grow and improve. You won't improve when you know you're doomed to be beaten by Korean players in Challenger league ro64.
EU is already well balanced. But it should be the same.
Give half the of the current prizepool to EU/NA, they don't need/deserve as much as KR, but it will still be better than pre WCS. Give more to Korean players and force them to play there.
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Thank you for trying, Kim Phan. Getting some sitrep is nice, I guess.
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Seem like reasonable changes/ plans, and I like the idea of slightly less seasons, I feel there is way too much SC2 at the moment.
If they region lock then its up to the foreigner players to improve their skill considerably or NE and EU will simply wither and die, or will they use it as a free paycheck? Without competition i cant see them improving tbh.
Also what happens in the grand finals, its going to be a complete joke watching KR region stomp NA and EU into the ground every time?
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On October 15 2013 15:39 Liquid`Ret wrote:
I think that TL.net needs to be a place for constructive feedback, all of this hate is not contributing anything.
Blizzard is right here in this thread, use it!
Wait so this "kimaphan" is real? Haha i was pretty sure that is just a trolling guy with so few posts and was wondering why the account wasn't banned. Maybe give her a Blizzard tag
Ok then i have a question or rather a concern: Does Blizzard hate teams?
Or at least dont care that much about them. It was right at the beginning of WCS were it seems to be a lot of confusion because Blizzard mainly contacted players and "ignored" the teams. But even besides organizational things the exposition of Teams and their sponsors is not supported by WCS.
At the Finals at gamescon it was "Teaja" not "Liquid Teaja" why?
I can only guess because i am obviously not part of the esport business but i think that most of the money still comes from sponsors. And sponsoring is a tough field in marketing because it is hard to calculate the value for the company. So why not helping the teams with showing the main sponsors at the beginning of WCS games. Or some "premium team sponsors" shown on stage.
I can only imagine how hard it is to gather money for something like esports with business models that are fighting for a "black zero" but why not help the Teams to expose their sponsors and give them weapons like "hey Razor your investment is worth it, X viewers were able to see your logo for Y times and Z minutes because Teaja is awesome and made it to the ro4".
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I don't know if you've already read some of the blog, reddit, and etc. posts about region locking, but I have very strong feelings about the way that WCS has been on it's policies with region locking. As a viewer and a fan, I disagree with the arguments that have been presented, especially the uniqueness of players. As I watched WCS AM 2013, I couldn't help but feel like I was watching as some people have said,"A mini WCS KR," with 6 Korean ro8 players in Season 1, 5 Koreans in Season 2, and as for Season 3, what I hope to see is less than a majority of ro8 players. It is very monotonous and doesn't help increase the enjoyability of watching the region that I belong too. Although the level of play is undeniably high and each korean player has a personality, I can't help but want an increase of AM player personalities who I've been following through the years and can root for rather then watch a KR dominated region. As for the level of play, players in AM haven't been able to obtain a place in the qualifiers for the region to even make it into Challenger League. As a couple players have put it: it's been overrun with Code A dropouts." This certainly won't help the AM scene any more then it will help the KR scene. On one hand, the qualifiers don't allow players to get a chance to prove themselves, and on the other hand, KR loses valuable players that could have otherwise become better players.
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glad they aren't doing a full region lock. Its players like jaedong, and the axiom boys that i keep watching wcs na so much. If they were all gone that would only really leave polt and scarlett that i like... A few slots for new blood though sounds good.
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On October 15 2013 15:39 Liquid`Ret wrote:
I think that TL.net needs to be a place for constructive feedback, all of this hate is not contributing anything.
Blizzard is right here in this thread, use it!
So good to hear some reason in here for once...
I hope people can take your word for it, (regarding wcs, you being a progamer and all) and try to focus on the constructive criticism instead of just hating.
Also
On October 15 2013 15:53 felisconcolori wrote:
Truth. This is one of the few times we KNOW one of the decision makers in Blizzard eSports is reading the thread. This is not a time to go full youtube comments. (Or even reddit comments.)
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Canada16217 Posts
On October 15 2013 16:04 USvBleakill wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 15:39 Liquid`Ret wrote:
I think that TL.net needs to be a place for constructive feedback, all of this hate is not contributing anything.
Blizzard is right here in this thread, use it! Wait so this "kimaphan" guy is real? Haha i was pretty sure that is just a trolling guy with so few posts and was wondering why he wasn't banned. Maybe give him a Blizzard tag Ok then i have a question or rather a concern: Does Blizzard hate teams? Or at least dont care that much about them. It was right at the beginning of WCS were it seems to be a lot of confusion because Blizzard mainly contacted players and "ignored" the teams. But even besides organizational things the exposition of Teams and their sponsors is not supported by WCS. At the Finals at gamescon it was "Teaja" not "Liquid Teaja" why? I can only guess because i am obviously not part of the esport business but i think that most of the money still comes from sponsors. And sponsoring is a tough field in marketing because it is hard to calculate the value for the company. So why not helping the teams with showing the main sponsors at the beginning of WCS games. Or some "premium team sponsors" shown on stage. I can only imagine how hard it is to gather money for something like esports with business models that are fighting for a "black zero" but why not help the Teams to expose their sponsors and give them weapons like "hey Razor your investment is worth it, X viewers were able to see your logo for Y times and Z minutes because Teaja is awesome and made it to the ro4".
kim phan is a female by the way, just to let you know so you don't keep saying "he"
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United States43 Posts
On October 15 2013 15:47 looknohands119 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2013 15:43 Yakikorosu wrote:On October 15 2013 15:39 looknohands119 wrote:On October 15 2013 15:23 Yakikorosu wrote:On October 15 2013 15:21 looknohands119 wrote:
HOLYSHIT! Why is no one talking about 3 leagues per region? That would mean that GSL and OSL are coming back! Sorry, that's not what that means. It's not 3 leagues per reason, it's just 3 leagues, like we have now. NA, EU, KR. You can tell because prior to that bullet it says that this will "still" exist (i.e., it already exists now). I'm not talking about 3 wcs leagues per region. I'm talking about 3 leagues per region (where WCS is one of the 3 for each region). That is definitely the way that was worded. And that definitely seems to indicate that GSL and OSL are coming back. Who would be the third league in NA? Probably NASL or MLG. Who knows, but either way, its a pretty exciting prospect. If you are right, I'd be very happy, but unfortunately I think that part of the Q&A is just not worded perfectly. Here's what it says: "The following will still exist: There will be three leagues operating in each of the existing regions – America, Europe, and Korea" Grammatically, I agree that this reads like there are three leagues in EACH OF the three regions, but I think the statement should have been written with a comma after the word "leagues." So the "three leagues" are just the three WCS regions. Two reasons why I'm pretty sure my reading is right: 1) The bolded words "will still exist." So the Q&A is referring to something that already exists NOW. There are definitely not three leagues in each region now. 2) If Blizzard was really announcing that there'll be three separate leagues in EACH region (so nine leagues total), that would be a centerpoint of the post, as that would be a huge announcement. It wouldn't be buried in a bullet halfway through the Q&A. Yes, I think some clarification is necessary here. Kim, can you clear this wording question up for us?
My apologies. The wording is definitely confusing. There will be a total of three WCS leagues next year, which is the same as this year. The sentence should have read:
There will be three leagues operating in each of the existing regions – America, Europe, and Korea
Thanks for the catch!
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The biggest problem with WCS right now is that all of these Koreans who play in America and Europe don't help these regions become better and more competitive,especially America.
How many of the WCS AM premier league players actually play in the American ladder?Probably none.That's where i would start making changes.
There should be a requirement for all of the premier league players of each region to have an active GM account on that region's ladder.No barcodes ar anything like that.It should say "EG Jaedong" for example.That i think would help the rest of the american players get amazing practice and potentially increase their skill level.
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EPT
