EPT6 possible balance changes - David Kim - Page 24
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
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Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On September 24 2013 06:48 gingerfluffmuff wrote: I dont get how 10% faster firing (1/0.9 more dps) tanks can equalize the reduction of the mine splash area from 3.06 to 1.21. Thats only 40% of the original area --> 60% lost. lol. It's blizzard | ||
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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Heavenlee
United States966 Posts
On September 24 2013 06:40 H0i wrote: Target firing is not the same as real micro... just look at reavers please to see the difference. In many fights vikings or corruptors are simply right clicked on the colossi, and usually either the colossi count is brought to 0 while stalkers fail to kill the vikings/corruptors fast enough, or the colossi deal enough damage to bring a significant advantage to the protoss player. Colossi are OP, in the sense that protoss gateway units have to be weaker to compensate and balance, thus contributing to the general instability of protoss, by relying so heavily on a unit such as the colossus to do the damage to clumped up units, additionally this significantly fuels the deathball paradigm. And yeah splash reliance happens with HT too, but at least you can spread your army instead of keeping one big deathball at all times. I'm not some kind of toss hater, it's one of my favorite races... but I think I've played the game enough from every racial perspective to say colossi, together with roaches are the most boring, badly designed and detrimental units to the game. This has been argued a million times and it's ridiculous and pointless to argue again. Enjoy your opinion, it's just rehashed garbage that everyone has been repeating since 2010 when there were actual deathballs. I will comment on the ridiculousness of your second statement though. Yes, vikings and corruptors are simply right clicked onto the colossi, that has nothing to do with anything I said. I said it increases the microability of the protoss army by forcing focus fire, which is not "hard" micro but is still an additional taxing action that enhances efficiency, and also leads to focus firing with blink stalkers and good positioning to minimize corruptor/viking damage. All of that requires micro and can be surprisingly difficult when paired up with all the other army control you should be doing. | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On September 24 2013 06:35 Blacklizard wrote: And the faster roach burrow... really powerful and nice. 2 or 3 burrowed roaches are the same as a DT in terms of damage dealt, yet cost much less. 225/75/6 w/ 250/250 in research isn't exactly cheap... Not to mention Burrowed roaches aren't going to do anything in the late game that burrowed infestors couldn't do better. 1 infestor is 100/150/2 and could put out a whole lot more harassment than 3 burrowed roaches. | ||
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dohgg
310 Posts
So i still dont see how they will be replaced with mines in TvZ, eventho, i really wish it'll be the case, since they are way more fun to watch then mines | ||
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Jerom
Netherlands588 Posts
The dt probably needs some sort of lategame upgrade at the dark shrine. Maybe something like blink, but then in the way it works in dota, where you can't blink if you have been attacked in the last couple of seconds. atm lategame dts are pretty much pure suicide units, this way the better player can save his dts by paying attention to them. This could be very broken though. I'd also love to see some BC buff (maybe we need to look at tempest hard countering them so badly) and a serious carrier buff (build time, maybe giving them more interceptors at start + removing the upgrade). Also, for mech actually being viable, the viper and immortal need to be looked at, and maybe the swarm hosts aswell. They all counter siege tanks too hard. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8244 Posts
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DDie
Brazil2369 Posts
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On September 24 2013 06:53 Jerom wrote: Am I the only one who would love to see the oracle get that spell that they initially proposed. The one with which it can stop static defenses from firing? That'd at least solve the fact that they are unusable in the lategame. Then maybe slightly buff their hitpoint and reduce their damage, or give them a lategame hitpoints/armor upgrade on the fleat beacon. The dt probably needs some sort of lategame upgrade at the dark shrine. Maybe something like blink, but then in the way it works in dota, where you can't blink if you have been attacked in the last couple of seconds. atm lategame dts are pretty much pure suicide units, this way the better player can save his dts by paying attention to them. This could be very broken though. I'd also love to see some BC buff (maybe we need to look at tempest hard countering them so badly) and a serious carrier buff (build time, maybe giving them more interceptors at start + removing the upgrade). Also, for mech actually being viable, the viper and immortal need to be looked at, and maybe the swarm hosts aswell. They all counter siege tanks too hard. This post has Terran written all over it. | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
On September 24 2013 06:48 gingerfluffmuff wrote: I dont get how 10% faster firing (1/0.9 more dps) tanks can equalize the reduction of the mine splash area from 3.06 to 1.21. Thats only 40% of the original area --> 60% lost. lol. This is what I don't understand. The Tank Buff seems very moderate, which I like. They don't need to reinvent the Seige Tank, just make it more viable which 10% faster fire will. But the mine nerf? Huge! This is an example of an extreme reaction and desire to alter the current gameplay. Everything in moderation, please. 1.75-1.1 is too much. Try 1.75-1.5? I won't even comment on the ridiculous Protoss proposals besides one thing: Carriers. If I'm correct, the only change they have even had since beta WoL was allowing them to change targets in leash range in HotS? Here's an idea. Want to make Oracles viable late game? Want to make Carriers (a late game unit, obviously) viable? Give the Oracle an ability that, in some way, uniquely helps Carriers (and only Carriers). There are more creative minds than me that can come up with the actual details, but I think there is potential in an Oracle-Carrier link, whatever it might be. | ||
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
On September 24 2013 05:20 -Kyo- wrote: I don't understand the logic of making toss units more gimmicky rather than actually addressing things like how the race is played. Look at the other race changes... it's exactly what they're trying to do.. but protoss they have some disconnect or something? :/ I dunno... really kind of depressing though... I guess I'll just keep using those units though... Hope to see some better ideas @_@;; I think people are getting confused about what is making something more gimmicky vs more solid. A More gimmicky Oracle would be like this: Oracle speed/acceleration reduced such that if you get hit by one turret shot, you can't escape before dying. But oracle damage is doubled so that if they don't have a turret you kill twice as many workers as before! A More gimmicky DT is like this: DT speed cut in half, but DT shrine build time reduced by half. So it can never get away and can barely kill workers even if detection is not available, but hidden buildings are even better now! Hits earlier! Blizzard isn't doing that though. In the test map, they are trying to make the units suck less. Oracle's biggest problem is costing so much because stargate is useless vs T for 90% of P players. DTs are completely coinflip because they can't get away. They are changing these properties. Think about muta harassment. Is it more gimmicky now in HotS with the speed/regen buff or more solid? More solid of course. | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
If you read the OP they stated they wanted there to be a nice mixture of mines + tanks to go along with bio. | ||
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H0i
Netherlands484 Posts
On September 24 2013 06:51 Heavenlee wrote: This has been argued a million times and it's ridiculous and pointless to argue again. Enjoy your opinion, it's just rehashed garbage that everyone has been repeating since 2010 when there were actual deathballs. I will comment on the ridiculousness of your second statement though. Yes, vikings and corruptors are simply right clicked onto the colossi, that has nothing to do with anything I said. I said it increases the microability of the protoss army by forcing focus fire, which is not "hard" micro but is still an additional taxing action that enhances efficiency, and also leads to focus firing with blink stalkers and good positioning to minimize corruptor/viking damage. >ridiculous >pointless >rehashed garbage Instead of using hyperbole, and other "ridiculous" (ha!) kind of "arguments", perhaps you could reply to the content of what I wrote? And no, something isn't wrong just because people have been saying it for years. Blink + colossi results in some micro I never denied that, but it is highly underwhelming imo, especially compared to what could be. And again. Deathballs. They still exist and we see them all the time when protoss players get colossi. | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
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