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On September 24 2013 06:20 ReMinD_ wrote:
I think I know how we can bring Carriers / Battle Cruisers / Brood Lords back in game.
We increase their movement speed.
That's been the problem ever since SC2 was released. The balance team has problems balancing more mobile, supposedly weaker units with their slower, supposedly stronger counterparts. The more mobile units win out almost all the time. Blizzard's fix ends up just making the slower units faster.
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On September 24 2013 06:11 H0i wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 06:08 ladysman09 wrote:
What's with all the unnecessary Protoss hate? Its the weakest race right now so it needs a buff. I think the problem is these buffs do nothing to fix the problems that make protoss the weakest and most frustrating (which is what makes people rage at p) race: overreliance on gimmicks such as coinflip oracles or semi coinflip DT's, or OP, unmicroable and boring colossi that force other units to be too weak.
Ignoring the rehashed garbage of the rest of this post, calling colossi OP and unmicroable is so stupid. You can easily micro colossi to increase their effectiveness by focus firing on groups of clumped units (especially those it's strong against). They also promote blink stalker micro and positioning to pick off vikings and corruptors, making the toss army in general require more micro. It's not groundbreaking but they're just as microable as the majority of units in this game. And they're not remotely OP, keep that to the Blizzard forums please.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
Protoss does not need buffs as they are gimmicky as it is. If you want to change them, rather change something else other than already very strong harass units.
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On September 24 2013 06:29 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 06:20 ReMinD_ wrote:
I think I know how we can bring Carriers / Battle Cruisers / Brood Lords back in game.
We increase their movement speed. That's been the problem ever since SC2 was released. The balance team has problems balancing more mobile, supposedly weaker units with their slower, supposedly stronger counterparts. The more mobile units win out almost all the time. Blizzard's fix ends up just making the slower units faster.
Everything is already too fast, though, so that just makes things worse.
Movement speed of all the units should be cut by like 1/3 for LotV, ideally.
On September 24 2013 06:30 ysnake wrote:
Protoss does not need buffs as they are gimmicky as it is. If you want to change them, rather change something else other than already very strong harass units.
Well they've already got a strong deathball; what else would you even change?
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YEA BUFF PROTOSS WHY NOT LIKE ZV FUCKING P ISNT FRUSTRATING ENOUGH AT MY DIAMONDLVL FUCK YOU BLIZZARD
User was banned for this post.
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On September 24 2013 06:32 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 06:29 andrewlt wrote:On September 24 2013 06:20 ReMinD_ wrote:
I think I know how we can bring Carriers / Battle Cruisers / Brood Lords back in game.
We increase their movement speed. That's been the problem ever since SC2 was released. The balance team has problems balancing more mobile, supposedly weaker units with their slower, supposedly stronger counterparts. The more mobile units win out almost all the time. Blizzard's fix ends up just making the slower units faster. Everything is already too fast, though, so that just makes things worse. Movement speed of all the units should be cut by like 1/3 for LotV, ideally.
Fuck it, just set the movement speed for every unit to 6.
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WTF... are those just random changes to keep us busy till Lotv. they dont resolve any issues just cover them with the new layer of issues that would come.. for every race and matchup. :/ eh...this is.. wait 1st april joke :D.... guess that my time machine works
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On September 24 2013 06:33 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 06:32 dcemuser wrote:On September 24 2013 06:29 andrewlt wrote:On September 24 2013 06:20 ReMinD_ wrote:
I think I know how we can bring Carriers / Battle Cruisers / Brood Lords back in game.
We increase their movement speed. That's been the problem ever since SC2 was released. The balance team has problems balancing more mobile, supposedly weaker units with their slower, supposedly stronger counterparts. The more mobile units win out almost all the time. Blizzard's fix ends up just making the slower units faster. Everything is already too fast, though, so that just makes things worse. Movement speed of all the units should be cut by like 1/3 for LotV, ideally. Fuck it, just set the movement speed for every unit to 6.
The true test of micro.
You blink, your army is gone. LIKE MAGIC
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On September 24 2013 05:07 freetgy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 05:05 [PkF] Wire wrote:On September 24 2013 04:59 Undead1993 wrote:
as a toss, i am the happiest man alive right now! Having even stronger coinflippy options makes you that happy ? Man, you must have a disgusting playstyle... it is not coinflippy if it becomes a viable and solid option....(Taste some of your own medicine), it still way less annoying then cloak banshee openings in WoL, which were standard and solid. its funny, that the protoss changes with the least effect on the game get the most critics here, double standards.
Well said. Truly- widowmine changes and tank/mech changes are huge.
Protoss changes are nice but are just squeezing some usage out of not solid units... possibly making them more solid. Nothing else can really be changed in the Protoss lineup to help harassment. You can't buff zealots or voidrays. Phoenix would need a ground shot to be better harassment... never will happen. Buff the harassment units that already exist then. Yes, I understand that.
And the faster roach burrow... really powerful and nice. 2 or 3 burrowed roaches are the same as a DT in terms of damage dealt, yet cost much less.
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I am all for turbo DTs. That's a hilarious idea. Whether or not it makes any sense is another thing, but it is hilarious none-the-less.
Also, that tank/widow mine combo change sounds totally reasonable. Tanks need some lovin' somehow. We barely see them outside of all-ins, all-in defence, and TvT anymore.
I'd say they shouldn't be doing this many crazy changes, but the game is getting so stagnant at this point any change is now considered a good change in my books. Anything to freshen the game up and allow for more variety, no matter how ridiculous the changes that allow for that variety are.
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T.O.P
469 Posts
love the mech buff! But i don't know about the mines.
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On September 24 2013 06:33 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 06:32 dcemuser wrote:On September 24 2013 06:29 andrewlt wrote:On September 24 2013 06:20 ReMinD_ wrote:
I think I know how we can bring Carriers / Battle Cruisers / Brood Lords back in game.
We increase their movement speed. That's been the problem ever since SC2 was released. The balance team has problems balancing more mobile, supposedly weaker units with their slower, supposedly stronger counterparts. The more mobile units win out almost all the time. Blizzard's fix ends up just making the slower units faster. Everything is already too fast, though, so that just makes things worse. Movement speed of all the units should be cut by like 1/3 for LotV, ideally. Fuck it, just set the movement speed for every unit to 6.
No that is still too slow, every unit should auto blink (with no CD) on every possition you click no matter the distance
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LOL, Davie will never learn.
He keep going for the gimmicky path for protoss, and that is what make it a retarded defensive race.
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On September 24 2013 06:29 Heavenlee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 06:11 H0i wrote:On September 24 2013 06:08 ladysman09 wrote:
What's with all the unnecessary Protoss hate? Its the weakest race right now so it needs a buff. I think the problem is these buffs do nothing to fix the problems that make protoss the weakest and most frustrating (which is what makes people rage at p) race: overreliance on gimmicks such as coinflip oracles or semi coinflip DT's, or OP, unmicroable and boring colossi that force other units to be too weak. Ignoring the rehashed garbage of the rest of this post, calling colossi OP and unmicroable is so stupid. You can easily micro colossi to increase their effectiveness by focus firing on groups of clumped units (especially those it's strong against). They also promote blink stalker micro and positioning to pick off vikings and corruptors, making the toss army in general require more micro. It's not groundbreaking but they're just as microable as the majority of units in this game. And they're not remotely OP, keep that to the Blizzard forums please.
Target firing is not the same as real micro... just look at reavers please to see the difference.
In many fights vikings or corruptors are simply right clicked on the colossi, and usually either the colossi count is brought to 0 while stalkers fail to kill the vikings/corruptors fast enough, or the colossi deal enough damage to bring a significant advantage to the protoss player.
Colossi are OP, in the sense that protoss gateway units have to be weaker to compensate and balance, thus contributing to the general instability of protoss, by relying so heavily on a unit such as the colossus to do the damage to clumped up units, additionally this significantly fuels the deathball paradigm. And yeah splash reliance happens with HT too, but at least you can spread your army instead of keeping one big deathball at all times.
I'm not some kind of toss hater, it's one of my favorite races... but I think I've played the game enough from every racial perspective to say colossi, together with roaches are the most boring, badly designed and detrimental units to the game.
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Well these are some interesting ideas. I kinda wish they went a different route with the siege tank buff. Instead making the attack stronger.
I think increasing the attack rate will reduce the need to spread tanks, as the tanks will get more shots off while there are units in range. Which to me is not as exciting to see as a nice spread tank line getting a few key hits.
But, these are just possible changes and im glad they are trying to make mech work.
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The DT and Oracle proposed changes are ridiculously stupid and I hope they never get implemented. The Mine nerf I feel is too much. The Tank upgrade is cool, so is the mech and roach speed!
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I just... Blizzard really has no idea what tanks problem is... The problem isn't dps, it is hard counters. Viper totally fucks tanks up and protoss has chargelots/blink stalkers/immos/archons/tempest/carrier. If mech is supposed to work(and not be gimmicky) decrease the usefulness of some of those hard counters.
And stop buffing gimmicky protoss units and buff the basic units(with some early/midgame nerf to infrastructure), most notably the stalker.
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It's official. They don't know what to do anymore.
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Nowadyas proxy orcale with prob production hits terran base on 5:25 (Prottos cut MSC and stalker)
Proxy oracle with an cutting prob production can hit on 5:00 (Bomber vs yangwha game 3)
Not only with new patch we'll might see it hit earlier, it'll also be quite harder to scout (Prottos wont need to cut gas units)
And we all know how proxy oracle results when its not scouted.
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Both protoss units to be buffed still get hard-countered by a terran 100 mineral / 0 gas / 0 upkeep structure. This won't solve anything but kick the can down the road a few more months.
I'd prefer quintupling movement speed of all worker units instead. Not really caring about balance anymore, just for aesthetics' sake.
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EPT
