• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:23
CEST 07:23
KST 14:23
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202530RSL Season 1 - Final Week8[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams2Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Why doesnt SC2 scene costream tournaments
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
[CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 542 users

6 possible balance changes - David Kim - Page 23

Forum Index > SC2 General
1350 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 68 Next
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
September 23 2013 21:29 GMT
#441
On September 24 2013 06:20 ReMinD_ wrote:
I think I know how we can bring Carriers / Battle Cruisers / Brood Lords back in game.

We increase their movement speed.


That's been the problem ever since SC2 was released. The balance team has problems balancing more mobile, supposedly weaker units with their slower, supposedly stronger counterparts. The more mobile units win out almost all the time. Blizzard's fix ends up just making the slower units faster.
Heavenlee
Profile Joined April 2012
United States966 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 21:30:06
September 23 2013 21:29 GMT
#442
On September 24 2013 06:11 H0i wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 06:08 ladysman09 wrote:
What's with all the unnecessary Protoss hate? Its the weakest race right now so it needs a buff.


I think the problem is these buffs do nothing to fix the problems that make protoss the weakest and most frustrating (which is what makes people rage at p) race: overreliance on gimmicks such as coinflip oracles or semi coinflip DT's, or OP, unmicroable and boring colossi that force other units to be too weak.


Ignoring the rehashed garbage of the rest of this post, calling colossi OP and unmicroable is so stupid. You can easily micro colossi to increase their effectiveness by focus firing on groups of clumped units (especially those it's strong against). They also promote blink stalker micro and positioning to pick off vikings and corruptors, making the toss army in general require more micro. It's not groundbreaking but they're just as microable as the majority of units in this game. And they're not remotely OP, keep that to the Blizzard forums please.
ysnake
Profile Joined June 2012
Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
September 23 2013 21:30 GMT
#443
Protoss does not need buffs as they are gimmicky as it is. If you want to change them, rather change something else other than already very strong harass units.
You are no longer automatically breathing and blinking.
dcemuser
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3248 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 21:33:56
September 23 2013 21:32 GMT
#444
On September 24 2013 06:29 andrewlt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 06:20 ReMinD_ wrote:
I think I know how we can bring Carriers / Battle Cruisers / Brood Lords back in game.

We increase their movement speed.


That's been the problem ever since SC2 was released. The balance team has problems balancing more mobile, supposedly weaker units with their slower, supposedly stronger counterparts. The more mobile units win out almost all the time. Blizzard's fix ends up just making the slower units faster.


Everything is already too fast, though, so that just makes things worse.

Movement speed of all the units should be cut by like 1/3 for LotV, ideally.

On September 24 2013 06:30 ysnake wrote:
Protoss does not need buffs as they are gimmicky as it is. If you want to change them, rather change something else other than already very strong harass units.

Well they've already got a strong deathball; what else would you even change?
mafaba
Profile Joined April 2013
Germany73 Posts
September 23 2013 21:32 GMT
#445
YEA BUFF PROTOSS WHY NOT LIKE ZV FUCKING P ISNT FRUSTRATING ENOUGH AT MY DIAMONDLVL FUCK YOU BLIZZARD

User was banned for this post.
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
September 23 2013 21:33 GMT
#446
On September 24 2013 06:32 dcemuser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 06:29 andrewlt wrote:
On September 24 2013 06:20 ReMinD_ wrote:
I think I know how we can bring Carriers / Battle Cruisers / Brood Lords back in game.

We increase their movement speed.


That's been the problem ever since SC2 was released. The balance team has problems balancing more mobile, supposedly weaker units with their slower, supposedly stronger counterparts. The more mobile units win out almost all the time. Blizzard's fix ends up just making the slower units faster.


Everything is already too fast, though, so that just makes things worse.

Movement speed of all the units should be cut by like 1/3 for LotV, ideally.

Fuck it, just set the movement speed for every unit to 6.
Excelion
Profile Joined January 2011
Bulgaria59 Posts
September 23 2013 21:34 GMT
#447
WTF... are those just random changes to keep us busy till Lotv. they dont resolve any issues just cover them with the new layer of issues that would come.. for every race and matchup. :/ eh...this is.. wait 1st april joke :D.... guess that my time machine works
dcemuser
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3248 Posts
September 23 2013 21:34 GMT
#448
On September 24 2013 06:33 forsooth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 06:32 dcemuser wrote:
On September 24 2013 06:29 andrewlt wrote:
On September 24 2013 06:20 ReMinD_ wrote:
I think I know how we can bring Carriers / Battle Cruisers / Brood Lords back in game.

We increase their movement speed.


That's been the problem ever since SC2 was released. The balance team has problems balancing more mobile, supposedly weaker units with their slower, supposedly stronger counterparts. The more mobile units win out almost all the time. Blizzard's fix ends up just making the slower units faster.


Everything is already too fast, though, so that just makes things worse.

Movement speed of all the units should be cut by like 1/3 for LotV, ideally.

Fuck it, just set the movement speed for every unit to 6.

The true test of micro.

You blink, your army is gone. LIKE MAGIC
Blacklizard
Profile Joined May 2007
United States1194 Posts
September 23 2013 21:35 GMT
#449
On September 24 2013 05:07 freetgy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 05:05 [PkF] Wire wrote:
On September 24 2013 04:59 Undead1993 wrote:
as a toss, i am the happiest man alive right now!


Having even stronger coinflippy options makes you that happy ? Man, you must have a disgusting playstyle...


it is not coinflippy if it becomes a viable and solid option....(Taste some of your own medicine),
it still way less annoying then cloak banshee openings in WoL, which were standard and solid.

its funny, that the protoss changes with the least effect on the game get the most critics here, double standards.


Well said. Truly- widowmine changes and tank/mech changes are huge.

Protoss changes are nice but are just squeezing some usage out of not solid units... possibly making them more solid. Nothing else can really be changed in the Protoss lineup to help harassment. You can't buff zealots or voidrays. Phoenix would need a ground shot to be better harassment... never will happen. Buff the harassment units that already exist then. Yes, I understand that.

And the faster roach burrow... really powerful and nice. 2 or 3 burrowed roaches are the same as a DT in terms of damage dealt, yet cost much less.
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
September 23 2013 21:38 GMT
#450
I am all for turbo DTs. That's a hilarious idea. Whether or not it makes any sense is another thing, but it is hilarious none-the-less.

Also, that tank/widow mine combo change sounds totally reasonable. Tanks need some lovin' somehow. We barely see them outside of all-ins, all-in defence, and TvT anymore.

I'd say they shouldn't be doing this many crazy changes, but the game is getting so stagnant at this point any change is now considered a good change in my books. Anything to freshen the game up and allow for more variety, no matter how ridiculous the changes that allow for that variety are.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
T.O.P
Profile Joined December 2012
469 Posts
September 23 2013 21:39 GMT
#451
love the mech buff! But i don't know about the mines.
I'm not the real T.O.P just a fan!
Excelion
Profile Joined January 2011
Bulgaria59 Posts
September 23 2013 21:39 GMT
#452
On September 24 2013 06:33 forsooth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 06:32 dcemuser wrote:
On September 24 2013 06:29 andrewlt wrote:
On September 24 2013 06:20 ReMinD_ wrote:
I think I know how we can bring Carriers / Battle Cruisers / Brood Lords back in game.

We increase their movement speed.


That's been the problem ever since SC2 was released. The balance team has problems balancing more mobile, supposedly weaker units with their slower, supposedly stronger counterparts. The more mobile units win out almost all the time. Blizzard's fix ends up just making the slower units faster.


Everything is already too fast, though, so that just makes things worse.

Movement speed of all the units should be cut by like 1/3 for LotV, ideally.

Fuck it, just set the movement speed for every unit to 6.


No that is still too slow, every unit should auto blink (with no CD) on every possition you click no matter the distance
Belha
Profile Joined December 2010
Italy2850 Posts
September 23 2013 21:40 GMT
#453
LOL, Davie will never learn.

He keep going for the gimmicky path for protoss, and that is what make it a retarded defensive race.
Chicken gank op
H0i
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands484 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 21:42:54
September 23 2013 21:40 GMT
#454
On September 24 2013 06:29 Heavenlee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 06:11 H0i wrote:
On September 24 2013 06:08 ladysman09 wrote:
What's with all the unnecessary Protoss hate? Its the weakest race right now so it needs a buff.


I think the problem is these buffs do nothing to fix the problems that make protoss the weakest and most frustrating (which is what makes people rage at p) race: overreliance on gimmicks such as coinflip oracles or semi coinflip DT's, or OP, unmicroable and boring colossi that force other units to be too weak.


Ignoring the rehashed garbage of the rest of this post, calling colossi OP and unmicroable is so stupid. You can easily micro colossi to increase their effectiveness by focus firing on groups of clumped units (especially those it's strong against). They also promote blink stalker micro and positioning to pick off vikings and corruptors, making the toss army in general require more micro. It's not groundbreaking but they're just as microable as the majority of units in this game. And they're not remotely OP, keep that to the Blizzard forums please.


Target firing is not the same as real micro... just look at reavers please to see the difference.

In many fights vikings or corruptors are simply right clicked on the colossi, and usually either the colossi count is brought to 0 while stalkers fail to kill the vikings/corruptors fast enough, or the colossi deal enough damage to bring a significant advantage to the protoss player.

Colossi are OP, in the sense that protoss gateway units have to be weaker to compensate and balance, thus contributing to the general instability of protoss, by relying so heavily on a unit such as the colossus to do the damage to clumped up units, additionally this significantly fuels the deathball paradigm. And yeah splash reliance happens with HT too, but at least you can spread your army instead of keeping one big deathball at all times.

I'm not some kind of toss hater, it's one of my favorite races... but I think I've played the game enough from every racial perspective to say colossi, together with roaches are the most boring, badly designed and detrimental units to the game.
omisa
Profile Joined January 2011
United States494 Posts
September 23 2013 21:40 GMT
#455
Well these are some interesting ideas. I kinda wish they went a different route with the siege tank buff. Instead making the attack stronger.

I think increasing the attack rate will reduce the need to spread tanks, as the tanks will get more shots off while there are units in range. Which to me is not as exciting to see as a nice spread tank line getting a few key hits.

But, these are just possible changes and im glad they are trying to make mech work.
\m/
THM
Profile Joined November 2010
Bulgaria1131 Posts
September 23 2013 21:40 GMT
#456
The DT and Oracle proposed changes are ridiculously stupid and I hope they never get implemented. The Mine nerf I feel is too much. The Tank upgrade is cool, so is the mech and roach speed!
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
September 23 2013 21:43 GMT
#457
I just... Blizzard really has no idea what tanks problem is... The problem isn't dps, it is hard counters. Viper totally fucks tanks up and protoss has chargelots/blink stalkers/immos/archons/tempest/carrier. If mech is supposed to work(and not be gimmicky) decrease the usefulness of some of those hard counters.

And stop buffing gimmicky protoss units and buff the basic units(with some early/midgame nerf to infrastructure), most notably the stalker.
NKexquisite
Profile Joined January 2009
United States911 Posts
September 23 2013 21:43 GMT
#458
It's official. They don't know what to do anymore.
Whattttt Upppppppp Im Nesteaaaaaa!!
dohgg
Profile Joined February 2011
310 Posts
September 23 2013 21:45 GMT
#459
Nowadyas proxy orcale with prob production hits terran base on 5:25 (Prottos cut MSC and stalker)

Proxy oracle with an cutting prob production can hit on 5:00 (Bomber vs yangwha game 3)

Not only with new patch we'll might see it hit earlier, it'll also be quite harder to scout (Prottos wont need to cut gas units)
And we all know how proxy oracle results when its not scouted.
Aiobhill
Profile Joined June 2013
Germany283 Posts
September 23 2013 21:46 GMT
#460
Both protoss units to be buffed still get hard-countered by a terran 100 mineral / 0 gas / 0 upkeep structure. This won't solve anything but kick the can down the road a few more months.

I'd prefer quintupling movement speed of all worker units instead. Not really caring about balance anymore, just for aesthetics' sake.
Axslav - apm70maphacks - tak3r
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 68 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 37m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 245
ProTech68
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 235
Snow 181
Noble 65
Sacsri 41
ToSsGirL 17
Icarus 6
Dota 2
ODPixel1
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1110
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox514
Other Games
summit1g6284
Maynarde161
RuFF_SC263
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1307
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH421
• practicex 46
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt375
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
4h 37m
ByuN vs Zoun
SHIN vs TriGGeR
Cyan vs ShoWTimE
Rogue vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs Solar
Reynor vs Maru
herO vs Cure
Serral vs Classic
Esports World Cup
1d 4h
Esports World Cup
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
CSO Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.