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6 possible balance changes - David Kim - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
1350 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 68 Next
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 23 2013 19:14 GMT
#181
On September 24 2013 04:13 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 04:09 SupLilSon wrote:
On September 24 2013 04:05 TurboMaN wrote:
Didn't Blizzard say that they talk regularly with Progamers?

Why don't they ever show an interview saying like we discussed patch change xy with those players and they think its good to do it. The explanation comes always from David Kim and it sounds like he is the one balancing everything alone.


Progamers like Morrow and I think Nerchio have vouched that Blizzard has not contacted any pros in the past. It was either a white lie or just a complete BS statement from Blizz.

Its pretty obvious they dont engage the pros or else SC2 wouldnt be where it is LOL

They probably haven't talked to those 2 because one of them is notoriously BM and the other hasn't been relevant in years.

Its possible that Blizzard has NDAs in place with these players they choose to have balance discussions with.

Exactly. If I were Blizzard, I would only talk with people who didn't spend a lot of time mouthing off about how stupid DK was. There are plenty of very knowledgeable pro-gamers that they can talk to that also don't run their mouth at every balance patch.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
shid0x
Profile Joined July 2012
Korea (South)5014 Posts
September 23 2013 19:16 GMT
#182
wait do some of you really think the siege tank buff is good ?
Its as bad as before,oh yeah it shots slightly faster...

Still slow,still can hurt your own units,still take forever to siege...Also you get rekt by vipers,tempest,chargelot,imo,glings...
RIP MKP
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
September 23 2013 19:16 GMT
#183
If you want to hear, how bad those changes are for Terran, just tune in Avilo's stream right now. Noone would do this better for you.. :D
DifuntO
Profile Joined November 2011
Greece2376 Posts
September 23 2013 19:16 GMT
#184
I like most of the changes but i have some concerns about the Oracle buff.

When a unit is used mostly in the early game(for harassment and all-ins),reducing the cost will not make people use it in the late game.

What will make people use it in the late game is some kind of new ability that you can upgrade.


For example,widow mines have drilling claws,stalkers have blink,oracles need something like that,a nice upgrade you can use later in the game(i guess revelation is pretty good for knowing where the opponents army is,but we have observers and hallucinations for that).
All I do is Stim.
Decendos
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1338 Posts
September 23 2013 19:17 GMT
#185
all these changes sound soooooo good
Zheryn
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden3653 Posts
September 23 2013 19:17 GMT
#186
Damn, my ZvT win rate is going to plummet ZvT was so nice when no one made tanks so you could just play pure ground. I would really hate to be forced into mutalisks.
hundred thousand krouner
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 23 2013 19:17 GMT
#187
On September 24 2013 04:16 Everlong wrote:
If you want to hear, how bad those changes are for Terran, just tune in Avilo's stream right now. Noone would do this better for you.. :D

I think I will just wait until all of his fans repeat the same comments in this thread after he is done. I bet they are working on a shared google.doc so they are all on message.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
September 23 2013 19:18 GMT
#188
On September 24 2013 04:09 Musicus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 04:06 KanoCoke wrote:
I agree with all the changes except the widow mine splash radius, which is a little too low.

It should be around 1.250~1.375 in my opinion.


I agree, but who cares about that right now. They will test all those changes and tweek a lot of numbers for sure, but the important thing is that they do something.

The overton window in effect in starcraft 2: Blizzard says they'll nerf a unit to 1.1 radius and lots of people will play into their hands and 'independently' come up with a compromise of 1.375 radius, as if the need to reduce the radius is a given.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Blacklizard
Profile Joined May 2007
United States1194 Posts
September 23 2013 19:18 GMT
#189
On September 24 2013 03:42 uh-oh wrote:
I think the reason why oracles aren't used much as harassment tools beyond the early game is how un-reusable they are. You dart in with an oracle, it kills a couple of workers, takes a bit too much damage, next time you come in it's in red health and can only kill two workers at best before static D takes it out.

Point being: in many cases oracles are ineffective after their first attack because of non-regenerating hp. After that they either join the deathball, suicide for scouting/a bit more damage/revelation(still the most underrated spell ever TT)

Thus decreasing the gas cost of oracles wont do much to encourage mid/late game oracle usage, because we are too busy spending every last bit of our gas on templars/colossi/upgrades. Decreasing the gas cost will only prompt more early oracle based aggression, most likely accompanied by some sort of gateway all in.

Trade oracle hp for more shields. This rewards players who actively keep their oracles alive and allows the initial oracles to be used in the later stages, instead of having your half dead oracle falling to a salvo of viking missiles. It doesn't just help oracles as a harassment unit, but allows more bold uses of revelation as well.

I like the siege tank buff, TvZ issues aside increased firing frequency means immortals wont be as good vs tanks, which means mech TvP and I love going vs mech as a protoss.

not sure about the other changes


I do like your idea of trading Oracle hp for more shields to reward more harassment.
sns3rsam
Profile Joined September 2012
United States138 Posts
September 23 2013 19:20 GMT
#190
What if oracle gets an active ability similar to that of ghost scepter in Dota 2? When activated, oracle becomes invulnerable for a short time (like 1-2 seconds) but unable to attack as well. This would help with casting revelation on enemy army especially bio balls. Also, it would help with getting past AA defense and finding a spot not covered by AA to harass gas workers or snipe add-ons.
"Every Terran same to me... uhhhh ezpz" -DRG // When Life gives you banelings...
Prugelhugel
Profile Joined February 2012
Austria637 Posts
September 23 2013 19:21 GMT
#191
On September 24 2013 04:13 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 04:11 FeyFey wrote:
On September 24 2013 04:07 Enema wrote:
We all know what we really need... ROCKET JUMP FOR TANKS.


I wish speedvacs could pick em up like the thors when in siege mode, just need an setup time after dropping them again.

I want hellions to be able to drive off cliffs like reapers(not up, only down, with a sweet "YEEEEHAAAAAA" sound effect).

Call me now Blizzard, I have more where that came from.


This would be the fastest way back to pallet town.


My two cents:

Terran changes:
Wow, so good, nice. Terran must feel like a different race after the next balance patch.

Protoss changes:
Why would you do this? I mean, the Oracle buff won't change thaaaat much (another kind of buff/change would be better imo - why not decrease build time AND damage?). And why would you do this with DTs? If you want to give DTs a skill element, give them an active skill (e.g. make them slower and give them a charge spell)

Zerg change:
What's the point in doing this? Sooo unnecessary
"This map definitly needs more rocks" - No SC2 player ever
LittleRedBoy
Profile Joined April 2011
United States229 Posts
September 23 2013 19:21 GMT
#192
The widow mine nerf is the best balance update I could have ever hoped for.
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
September 23 2013 19:22 GMT
#193
They could make the oracle a unit that's cheap (non-commital) but weak. Blizzard only wants you to use at least one oracle, for the purpose of diversity, harassment gameplay and taxing protoss multitasking. Since the oracle is already something of a failed unit, they might as well let you use it for this purpose.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
September 23 2013 19:22 GMT
#194
Haha, I was like "wtf roach speed underground buffed" that's awful! then I saw that everyone liked it in the poll...
I guess I do hate Zerg a bit too much :D

Otherwise pretty good suggestions
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10305 Posts
September 23 2013 19:22 GMT
#195
On September 24 2013 04:17 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 04:16 Everlong wrote:
If you want to hear, how bad those changes are for Terran, just tune in Avilo's stream right now. Noone would do this better for you.. :D

I think I will just wait until all of his fans repeat the same comments in this thread after he is done. I bet they are working on a shared google.doc so they are all on message.


oh behave
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
stankystank
Profile Joined September 2012
United States3 Posts
September 23 2013 19:23 GMT
#196
I like the diversity they are trying to add to Terran, and the roach burrow buff, could, potentially, add some interesting variation to Zerg mid game play. However, I don't understand the Protoss buffs. I don't understand how a DT buff is necessary, when going DTs is all ready a viable tech path, as a failure to surprise with DTs means the toss can still transition into archons. Plus, with how insane DT dmg is, buffing their speed without any corresponding damage nerf would make Dark Shrine a disproportionately good tech route. Why not try to buff a route that is less utilized instead, rather than buff a solid tech path that is all ready viable?
Knowledge remains, then, as a form of infinite equivocation; capable, at best, of reconciling two conflicting ideas within the mind of the individual. --S. Kierkeggard
Dontkillme
Profile Joined November 2011
Korea (South)806 Posts
September 23 2013 19:23 GMT
#197
Yeah lets add a speed increase to the one unit that can change the game for a protoss. HELL NO with the DT change and neither with the oracle change.
Bomber & Jaedong & FlaSh & SNSD <3
nichan
Profile Joined December 2010
United States158 Posts
September 23 2013 19:23 GMT
#198
I think is funny how people find that all the buffs are good except for the Protoss buffs.
a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 19:24:13
September 23 2013 19:23 GMT
#199
On September 24 2013 04:02 graNite wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 03:47 Hier wrote:
Warp Prism? Faster!
Mutas? Faster!
Medivacs? Faster!
Hydras? Faster!
Reapers? Faster!
.
.
.
Borrowed Roaches? Faster!
DTs? Faster!

I think Mine and Tank changes are the only ones on that list even remotely worth looking at.

why dont they make sieged tanks faster



They did!

Siege tank attack period decreased from 3 to 2.7
starleague forever
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 23 2013 19:24 GMT
#200
On September 24 2013 04:22 SmoKim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 04:17 Plansix wrote:
On September 24 2013 04:16 Everlong wrote:
If you want to hear, how bad those changes are for Terran, just tune in Avilo's stream right now. Noone would do this better for you.. :D

I think I will just wait until all of his fans repeat the same comments in this thread after he is done. I bet they are working on a shared google.doc so they are all on message.


oh behave

You know its going to happen. They are all taking notes and doing special math to prove that they will lose all the match ups. Polishing those buzz words like "coin flip" and "positional play". They are a tiny, but loud legion that will tell us just how much they will lose after this test patch is.....tested.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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