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On September 24 2013 04:13 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 04:09 SupLilSon wrote:On September 24 2013 04:05 TurboMaN wrote:
Didn't Blizzard say that they talk regularly with Progamers?
Why don't they ever show an interview saying like we discussed patch change xy with those players and they think its good to do it. The explanation comes always from David Kim and it sounds like he is the one balancing everything alone. Progamers like Morrow and I think Nerchio have vouched that Blizzard has not contacted any pros in the past. It was either a white lie or just a complete BS statement from Blizz. Its pretty obvious they dont engage the pros or else SC2 wouldnt be where it is LOL They probably haven't talked to those 2 because one of them is notoriously BM and the other hasn't been relevant in years. Its possible that Blizzard has NDAs in place with these players they choose to have balance discussions with.
Exactly. If I were Blizzard, I would only talk with people who didn't spend a lot of time mouthing off about how stupid DK was. There are plenty of very knowledgeable pro-gamers that they can talk to that also don't run their mouth at every balance patch.
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wait do some of you really think the siege tank buff is good ?
Its as bad as before,oh yeah it shots slightly faster...
Still slow,still can hurt your own units,still take forever to siege...Also you get rekt by vipers,tempest,chargelot,imo,glings...
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If you want to hear, how bad those changes are for Terran, just tune in Avilo's stream right now. Noone would do this better for you.. :D
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I like most of the changes but i have some concerns about the Oracle buff.
When a unit is used mostly in the early game(for harassment and all-ins),reducing the cost will not make people use it in the late game.
What will make people use it in the late game is some kind of new ability that you can upgrade.
For example,widow mines have drilling claws,stalkers have blink,oracles need something like that,a nice upgrade you can use later in the game(i guess revelation is pretty good for knowing where the opponents army is,but we have observers and hallucinations for that).
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all these changes sound soooooo good 
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Damn, my ZvT win rate is going to plummet  ZvT was so nice when no one made tanks so you could just play pure ground. I would really hate to be forced into mutalisks.
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On September 24 2013 04:16 Everlong wrote:
If you want to hear, how bad those changes are for Terran, just tune in Avilo's stream right now. Noone would do this better for you.. :D
I think I will just wait until all of his fans repeat the same comments in this thread after he is done. I bet they are working on a shared google.doc so they are all on message.
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On September 24 2013 04:09 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 04:06 KanoCoke wrote:
I agree with all the changes except the widow mine splash radius, which is a little too low.
It should be around 1.250~1.375 in my opinion. I agree, but who cares about that right now. They will test all those changes and tweek a lot of numbers for sure, but the important thing is that they do something.
The overton window in effect in starcraft 2: Blizzard says they'll nerf a unit to 1.1 radius and lots of people will play into their hands and 'independently' come up with a compromise of 1.375 radius, as if the need to reduce the radius is a given.
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On September 24 2013 03:42 uh-oh wrote:
I think the reason why oracles aren't used much as harassment tools beyond the early game is how un-reusable they are. You dart in with an oracle, it kills a couple of workers, takes a bit too much damage, next time you come in it's in red health and can only kill two workers at best before static D takes it out.
Point being: in many cases oracles are ineffective after their first attack because of non-regenerating hp. After that they either join the deathball, suicide for scouting/a bit more damage/revelation(still the most underrated spell ever TT)
Thus decreasing the gas cost of oracles wont do much to encourage mid/late game oracle usage, because we are too busy spending every last bit of our gas on templars/colossi/upgrades. Decreasing the gas cost will only prompt more early oracle based aggression, most likely accompanied by some sort of gateway all in.
Trade oracle hp for more shields. This rewards players who actively keep their oracles alive and allows the initial oracles to be used in the later stages, instead of having your half dead oracle falling to a salvo of viking missiles. It doesn't just help oracles as a harassment unit, but allows more bold uses of revelation as well.
I like the siege tank buff, TvZ issues aside increased firing frequency means immortals wont be as good vs tanks, which means mech TvP and I love going vs mech as a protoss.
not sure about the other changes
I do like your idea of trading Oracle hp for more shields to reward more harassment.
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What if oracle gets an active ability similar to that of ghost scepter in Dota 2? When activated, oracle becomes invulnerable for a short time (like 1-2 seconds) but unable to attack as well. This would help with casting revelation on enemy army especially bio balls. Also, it would help with getting past AA defense and finding a spot not covered by AA to harass gas workers or snipe add-ons.
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On September 24 2013 04:13 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 04:11 FeyFey wrote:On September 24 2013 04:07 Enema wrote:
We all know what we really need... ROCKET JUMP FOR TANKS. I wish speedvacs could pick em up like the thors when in siege mode, just need an setup time after dropping them again. I want hellions to be able to drive off cliffs like reapers(not up, only down, with a sweet "YEEEEHAAAAAA" sound effect). Call me now Blizzard, I have more where that came from.
This would be the fastest way back to pallet town.
My two cents:
Terran changes:
Wow, so good, nice. Terran must feel like a different race after the next balance patch.
Protoss changes:
Why would you do this? I mean, the Oracle buff won't change thaaaat much (another kind of buff/change would be better imo - why not decrease build time AND damage?). And why would you do this with DTs? If you want to give DTs a skill element, give them an active skill (e.g. make them slower and give them a charge spell)
Zerg change:
What's the point in doing this? Sooo unnecessary
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The widow mine nerf is the best balance update I could have ever hoped for.
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They could make the oracle a unit that's cheap (non-commital) but weak. Blizzard only wants you to use at least one oracle, for the purpose of diversity, harassment gameplay and taxing protoss multitasking. Since the oracle is already something of a failed unit, they might as well let you use it for this purpose.
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Haha, I was like "wtf roach speed underground buffed" that's awful! then I saw that everyone liked it in the poll...
I guess I do hate Zerg a bit too much :D
Otherwise pretty good suggestions
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On September 24 2013 04:17 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 04:16 Everlong wrote:
If you want to hear, how bad those changes are for Terran, just tune in Avilo's stream right now. Noone would do this better for you.. :D I think I will just wait until all of his fans repeat the same comments in this thread after he is done. I bet they are working on a shared google.doc so they are all on message.
oh behave
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I like the diversity they are trying to add to Terran, and the roach burrow buff, could, potentially, add some interesting variation to Zerg mid game play. However, I don't understand the Protoss buffs. I don't understand how a DT buff is necessary, when going DTs is all ready a viable tech path, as a failure to surprise with DTs means the toss can still transition into archons. Plus, with how insane DT dmg is, buffing their speed without any corresponding damage nerf would make Dark Shrine a disproportionately good tech route. Why not try to buff a route that is less utilized instead, rather than buff a solid tech path that is all ready viable?
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Yeah lets add a speed increase to the one unit that can change the game for a protoss. HELL NO with the DT change and neither with the oracle change.
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I think is funny how people find that all the buffs are good except for the Protoss buffs.
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On September 24 2013 04:02 graNite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 03:47 Hier wrote:
Warp Prism? Faster!
Mutas? Faster!
Medivacs? Faster!
Hydras? Faster!
Reapers? Faster!
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Borrowed Roaches? Faster!
DTs? Faster!
I think Mine and Tank changes are the only ones on that list even remotely worth looking at. why dont they make sieged tanks faster
They did!
Siege tank attack period decreased from 3 to 2.7
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On September 24 2013 04:22 SmoKim wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 04:17 Plansix wrote:On September 24 2013 04:16 Everlong wrote:
If you want to hear, how bad those changes are for Terran, just tune in Avilo's stream right now. Noone would do this better for you.. :D I think I will just wait until all of his fans repeat the same comments in this thread after he is done. I bet they are working on a shared google.doc so they are all on message. oh behave
You know its going to happen. They are all taking notes and doing special math to prove that they will lose all the match ups. Polishing those buzz words like "coin flip" and "positional play". They are a tiny, but loud legion that will tell us just how much they will lose after this test patch is.....tested.
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EPT
