EPTBisu retires - Page 28
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
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KarlSiegt
Italy36 Posts
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
On September 09 2013 20:24 Nimix wrote: I'm curious to hear what dear David has to say to that. Two protoss broodwar legends unable to enjoy sc2, and unable to perform as well as they should have, is telling quite a bit about the race's design in sc2. I was looking forward to them showing new plays with the race, but it seems that it rewards speed and multitasking so little that even them couldn't do impressive things, nor could they have fun with it. Anyway, it's really saddening. Let's hope he'll stream BW too <3 You can just watch some of his early interviews, (i stopped watching after those cuz his words and the results was on 180 degree difference), he was saying that good players will be able to shine with their skill, that the WOW moments will be so much like in Broodwar and so on and so forth bullshit that never happened in real life :D I dont really care what he has to say other than admit his failure. So congratulations mister Browder, you did TERRIBLE TERRIBLE DAMAGE to Starcraft! | ||
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Amazonic
Sweden239 Posts
On September 09 2013 20:26 thirtyapm wrote: tsk wtf. didn't he say something like, if he had forcefields he'll never lose a game? good luck bisu. I remember that being said, I believe that was just hearing about it and saying that if he had FF in BW he would never lose a game. That might just be me being full of shit though. | ||
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Rekzr
Australia92 Posts
 Looks like many Pro Koreans struggled to change from BW into sc2, all the best to Bisu. Hopefully he comes to stream BW for a bit in his break. | ||
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Neoattitude
Guam172 Posts
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XupinatoR
Spain125 Posts
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catabowl
United States815 Posts
On September 09 2013 11:21 a176 wrote: For the notable starleague champions, only four remain; stork, effort, jaedong, and flash? Cough Cough. FANTASY Cough Cough. | ||
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Sipario
Italy206 Posts
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
Im also afraid that flash might retire if he fails to get pass the ro16 this season.. or anything below the finals.. | ||
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MikeMM
Russian Federation221 Posts
On September 09 2013 20:18 boxerfred wrote: Well, good luck to him in the future. A broodwar legend leaves. Let's keep his BW legacy in mind and remember it forever, and let's stop blaming SC2 on ruining his career. He could not adapt to SC2, it was not SC2 that couldn't adapt to Bisu (or maybe it was  ..) . Maybe it's time for the generations to change, hm? Maybe the new heroes have names like "Soulkey", "Innovation", "Maru", "sOs", and no more Flash, Jaedong, Bisu or Stork. If legends from BW decide to take their turns on SC2 - they can fall apart. There's always a risk in trying something new. And to all those guys yelling "Let's get back to BW": Sorry, after approximately following the BW scene for 5 yrs (since round about 2007/2008), I'm tired of seeing low graphics and really old physic engine. BW might have had a great balance and a huge skill ceiling and of course it provided lots and lots and lots of fun, quality games and joy - it is over, at least for me. Bisu, I salute you for your achievements, and thank you for all the joy, fun, tears and nerd chills you brought me. Have a good run after your military service, and don't leave e-sports completely. You're a great personality, and I will always cheer for you, whatever you're doing. SC2 is so volatile. Last year it was Life, Parting, Creator, Rain who showed promise. This year it is four other progamers. I am sure that next year it will be another progamers. Unfortunately champions for years like Bisu will never appear in SC2. | ||
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revoN
Japan804 Posts
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00Visor
4337 Posts
On September 09 2013 21:00 MikeMM wrote: SC2 is so volatile. Last year it was Life, Parting, Creator, Rain who showed promise. This year it is four other progamers. I am sure that next year it will be another progamers. Unfortunately champions for years like Bisu will never appear in SC2. I think this is only seems like that because BW was some more time ago and we mainly remember the big stars. And there were much less tournaments, so it was way more easy to be "dominant" and show constant success. Rain just reached the WCS Korea finals. Life won MLG in March. Parting is still a strong force. MVP and MC have been a strong force for years in SC2 now. Broodwar though had similar short term success stories like SC2, especially in the early years: Sync, Garimto, Kingdom, etc. | ||
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NervO
Netherlands511 Posts
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XaCez
Sweden6991 Posts
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Lysanias
Netherlands8351 Posts
On September 09 2013 21:26 revoN wrote: Really a lot of saddening news recently. Makes you really think that the end is nigh... Yes if we did not get any new young future champions sure ... Great games and moments in BW, to bad Sc2 was not for him. | ||
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Sinedd
Poland7052 Posts
also Mind | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Also about skillful usage of units in SC2 vs BW. In BW, with things like how any unit without any attack animation can be used, etc, it allowed much more varied and fun play and also active and aggressive micro compared to SC2 where micro is more defensive (splitting marines against banelings or splitting against widow mines, etc). There are comparable things (blink micro) but for the most part, a lot of micro is more focused defensively than offensive compared to BW. SC2 and BW are both fast games (SC2 actually being faster thanks to how fast the game can end or be won with a single battle). The main thing to look out for is that in BW, the fast and micro intensive things you can do were much more practical and had a bigger impact on the game. In SC2, a lot of fast things are automatically down already (Phoenix auto firing while moving, though I actually like that on the Phoenix but that's just an example) or Medivacs speed boosting (just press a button). Things that you need to micro are more mindless in SC2 (stacking Mutalisk and using them is just mindless spam clicking compared to BW where you had to move them certain directions only and you had to make sure you used the right attack, stop, hold position, or patrol command depending on your mutalisk positions and their angle they're facing to keep them from losing momentum and/or attacking the wrong thing). And again, a lot more things that do require micro are defensive in nature (splitting against AoE units) which isn't as exciting/rewarding/satisfying when you're doing it offensively (using mutalisk, vultures, or shuttles with reavers and attacking with them in BW). I'm not sure if this is still true or not but according to a top 10 in PC Bangs in South Korea, BW apparently still was doing better (#6 if I remembered right) compared to SC2 which was at #11 (only after HotS release). SC2 doesn't have to be BW with better graphics (I like most of the new units for the most part) but some of the major mechanics like how units without attack animations could be controlled, Reavers, and maybe pathing should be looked at for SC2. I hope for LotV, they try out much more major changes. HotS was a nice experiment (in terms of how much they can change the game with just new/revamped units and not mechanics changes) and lots of their points were agreeable (and to be fair, they still have potential with more balance changes). One thing I'd like to add to the above are Reavers. Reavers is one of the best designed RTS units IMO. When Reavers were out on the field, both players had to micro against it and pay attention to the Reaver "and" the scarabs it fired. Scarabs can be aimed at specific unit for maximum total units and/or more damage to certain units you wanted to be hit. The opposing player can then try to move their targeted unit away (usually past structures or anything that can block or mess with the scarab's path finding because the farther the scarab had to travel, the more likely it will dud out and deal no damage). You could also try to block the scarab by moving a unit (that wasn't being targeted) in front of it (not as practical but can work in certain cases). The scarab (and its unique property that it had normal ground pathing for a missile, which meant that it actually can be blocked by units and structures in the way) helped contribute to the Reaver's uniqueness and fun in the battlefield. Not only that but the Protoss player also had to keep their Reaver and Shuttle in movement while the opposing player had to do their best in taking it out (while armies from both sides were battling it out). Now, SC2 isn't supposed to be BW with better graphics but they should definitely copy some things from SC2: 1. Unit control and movement for units with *no attack animation (like Mutalisk, Wraiths, Vultures, etc). *Since there is no distinction anymore in SC2 (all units have some form of attack animation besides maybe the Phoenix which already has auto target + auto attack), they'd have to manually select which units should fit this category. I vote for all the classic units that were the case in BW and some other units too. Epic Drone micro video (6 minutes and 7 seconds if the video doesn't take you there automatically): + Show Spoiler + Another example with Wraiths (3 minutes and 10 seconds if the video doesn't take you there automatically): + Show Spoiler + When you see something like that, try to mimic it, and you do it successfully (which wasn't hard in the sense that you could do something that looks and feels similar to what the progamer does) then you feel really rewarded and satisfied. SC2 is a hard game but most of the hard stuff is not as easy to do (or practical) and most of it for the lower to mid level is simply just game knowledge (when you see MKP beating Masters players one handed and mouse only, or really any player on "Off the Record" with handicaps, it's really shows that the game isn't as much as fancy micro or macro tricks as it is simple game knowledge). 2. Add back Reavers. Though, I think Protoss may need a bit more of a revamp in general (adding back Reavers is a good place to start though). Anyway, those are just two examples (which I think are small, SC2 will still be SC2 by a large margin even if they added those two things). Those two things won't make the game "BW with better graphics", it will still be SC2 with its own flavors. Again I'm not sure if this is still true or not but according to a top 10 in PC Bangs in South Korea, BW apparently still was doing better (#6 if I remembered right) compared to SC2 which was at #11 (only after HotS release). I hope for LotV, they try out much more major changes. HotS was a nice experiment (in terms of how much they can change the game with just new/revamped units and not mechanics changes) and lots of their points were agreeable (and to be fair, they still have potential with more balance changes). | ||
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Squiggles
Canada54 Posts
On September 09 2013 21:00 MikeMM wrote: SC2 is so volatile. Last year it was Life, Parting, Creator, Rain who showed promise. This year it is four other progamers. I am sure that next year it will be another progamers. Unfortunately champions for years like Bisu will never appear in SC2. I don't think it is as volatile as you make it seem. Rain was runner-up in the last OSL (and he was defending OSL champ). Parting made RO16 3 times in a row, and he still can win S3. MVP has been a great player for quite a while, and only declining as of late (wrist issues?). DRG is RO16 Code S again, and he still has a shot of winning the whole thing. Bomber has been around forever. | ||
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Orek
1665 Posts
Btw, have we come up with Stephano's immortal game? + Show Spoiler [following games] + | ||
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