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On September 16 2013 23:35 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 22:39 DifuntO wrote:On September 16 2013 14:10 Jer99 wrote:
Don't forget that although innovation lost to taeja in these finals, he is still top 2 in DH and is 5-0 in GSTL including an all kill, + he made it out of his group in the Ro32 in WCS KR in one sided afairs (aside from the DRG thing).
As much as I love Taeja and want to see him #1 every month, I think it's too close to call who would be #1 at the next power ranks and we definetily need to see how the rest of the month plays out, but no question in my mind that they are #1 and #2 at this time for the next PR If nothing crazy happens till the end of the month there is no way Innovation will be #1 when he is 0-4 vs Taeja. Head to head doesn't really matter. Innovation was 0-4 against Maru but was ranked first, three places ahead of Maru. If the month continues it's going to be close, because Innovation has alot of wins; nearly twice as much as Taeja, and against better opponents.
You have a point, Taeja has literally been dominant for 2 days: the 14th and 15th. Innovation has beaten so many good players, also players like Jaedong who Taeja has struggled to beat.
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United States33488 Posts
given the upcoming schedule until October, there's probably no way TaeJa can't be #1 unless he bombs out of Ro32 in WCS AM
there's just not enough opportunities/# of games left for anyone to overtake him on their own merits, unless TaeJa fails as well
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Since Taeja is on wrecking ball mode right now, I don´t think anyone (serious) would have a problem with that.
#datliquidbias 
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I agree, Taeja's performance was very solid, he looked stronger than anyone this month for sure.
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Already looking forward to a cute-smirk picture on front page. 
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On September 16 2013 11:28 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 09:14 samuraibael wrote:
This absurd volatility is really killing my interest in sc2. Did an osl winner in bw ever get eliminated in the first round of the next one? Maybe july after beating best? But then it was a miracle that he won that osl.
Without stability it feels like watching professional dice rolling. Yes. It was known as the OSL curse. There were no repeat winners of the OSL for about 8 or so years. The exceptions came very late in BWs lifespan. Often winners were eliminated in the group stage the following season. Here's the complete list (very interesting!): + Show Spoiler +Group = Ro16, except in 2006 where Group = Ro32, Elimination bracket started Ro8 except in 2006 where it started Ro16
Hanaro: Grrr... wins the first OSL final
Freechal: Grrr... out third in group, GARIMTO wins final
Hanbitsoft: GARIMTO out before Ro16, Boxer wins final
Coca-Cola: Boxer wins final
Sky 2001: Boxer loses final, GARIMTO wins
Nate: GARIMTO out third in group, Sync wins
Sky 2002: Sync out third in group, Reach wins
Panasonic: Reach out last, Nada wins
Olympus: Nada out last, Xellos wins
MyCube: Xellos out last in group, Kingdom wins
NHN: Kingdom out last in group, Nal_rA wins
Gillette: Nal_rA out third in group, July wins
Ever 2004: July out Ro8, Iloveoov wins
IOPS: Iloveoov out last in group, Nada wins
Ever 2005: Nada out 3rd in group, July wins
So1: July eliminated Ro8, Anytime wins
Shinhan 2005: Anytime out last in group, Iloveoov wins
Shinhan 2006-1: Oov eliminated Ro16, Casy wins
Shinhan 2006-2: Casy out last in group, Nada wins
Shinhan 2006-3: Nada loses the final, Savior wins
Daum: Savior loses Ro8, GGPlay wins
Ever 2007: GGplay out last in group, Jaedong wins
Bacchus 2007-8: Jaedong out Ro8, Flash wins
Ever 2008: Flash loses Ro8, July wins
Incruit: July out last in group, Stork wins
Batoo: Stork out Ro8, Jaedong wins
Bacchus 2009: Jaedong wins (first time since Boxer that we have a double champion)
Ever 2009: Jaedong loses Ro8, Flash wins
Korean Air 2010-1: Flash loses final, Effort wins
Korean Air 2010-2: Effort out last in group, Flash wins final
Bacchus 2010: Flash out third in group, Fantasy wins
Jin Air: Fantasy loses final, Jangbi wins
Tving: Jangbi wins the last OSL final
That is interesting.
Is it mitigated by performance in the usually concurrent msl? Also when a previous champ is eliminated who is it by? If its an eventual finalist that would be relevant. I would love to see someone try to statistically measure volatility in sc2.
Maybe the impression of a much greater volatility in sc2 is just pure sentimentality but it really doesnt feel like it.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 18 2013 18:16 samuraibael wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2013 11:28 Plexa wrote:On September 13 2013 09:14 samuraibael wrote:
This absurd volatility is really killing my interest in sc2. Did an osl winner in bw ever get eliminated in the first round of the next one? Maybe july after beating best? But then it was a miracle that he won that osl.
Without stability it feels like watching professional dice rolling. Yes. It was known as the OSL curse. There were no repeat winners of the OSL for about 8 or so years. The exceptions came very late in BWs lifespan. Often winners were eliminated in the group stage the following season. Here's the complete list (very interesting!): + Show Spoiler +Group = Ro16, except in 2006 where Group = Ro32, Elimination bracket started Ro8 except in 2006 where it started Ro16
Hanaro: Grrr... wins the first OSL final
Freechal: Grrr... out third in group, GARIMTO wins final
Hanbitsoft: GARIMTO out before Ro16, Boxer wins final
Coca-Cola: Boxer wins final
Sky 2001: Boxer loses final, GARIMTO wins
Nate: GARIMTO out third in group, Sync wins
Sky 2002: Sync out third in group, Reach wins
Panasonic: Reach out last, Nada wins
Olympus: Nada out last, Xellos wins
MyCube: Xellos out last in group, Kingdom wins
NHN: Kingdom out last in group, Nal_rA wins
Gillette: Nal_rA out third in group, July wins
Ever 2004: July out Ro8, Iloveoov wins
IOPS: Iloveoov out last in group, Nada wins
Ever 2005: Nada out 3rd in group, July wins
So1: July eliminated Ro8, Anytime wins
Shinhan 2005: Anytime out last in group, Iloveoov wins
Shinhan 2006-1: Oov eliminated Ro16, Casy wins
Shinhan 2006-2: Casy out last in group, Nada wins
Shinhan 2006-3: Nada loses the final, Savior wins
Daum: Savior loses Ro8, GGPlay wins
Ever 2007: GGplay out last in group, Jaedong wins
Bacchus 2007-8: Jaedong out Ro8, Flash wins
Ever 2008: Flash loses Ro8, July wins
Incruit: July out last in group, Stork wins
Batoo: Stork out Ro8, Jaedong wins
Bacchus 2009: Jaedong wins (first time since Boxer that we have a double champion)
Ever 2009: Jaedong loses Ro8, Flash wins
Korean Air 2010-1: Flash loses final, Effort wins
Korean Air 2010-2: Effort out last in group, Flash wins final
Bacchus 2010: Flash out third in group, Fantasy wins
Jin Air: Fantasy loses final, Jangbi wins
Tving: Jangbi wins the last OSL final That is interesting. Is it mitigated by performance in the usually concurrent msl? Also when a previous champ is eliminated who is it by? If its an eventual finalist that would be relevant. I would love to see someone try to statistically measure volatility in sc2. Maybe the impression of a much greater volatility in sc2 is just pure sentimentality but it really doesnt feel like it. The volatility is roughly the same from my estimates. Eventually I'll get around to actually looking at the retention rate between OSL/MSL in BW and GSLs in SC2.
The MSL has been traditionally more stable. Here's the MSL list for reference:
+ Show Spoiler +
KPGA Tour 1: Boxer wins (over Yellow)
KPGA Tour 2: Boxer loses Ro8 (to Yellow) Nada wins (over Yellow)
KPGA Tour 3: Nada wins (over Reach)
KPGA Tour 4: Nada wins (over Chojja)
Stout: Nada loses final to Nal_ra
Trigem: Nal_ra loses in Ro24 (loses to Goodfriend, Jinsu), Iloveoov wins (over Yellow)
Hanafos: Iloveoov wins (over Nada)
SPRIS: Iloveoov wins (over Kingdom)
You are the Golf King: Iloveoov loses Ro8 (Xellos, Xellos), Gorush wins (over Nada)
UZOO: Gorush out Ro32 (JJu, Kingdom), Savior wins (over Reach)
Cyon: Savior loses final to Chojja
Pringles 1: Savior wins over Nal_ra
Pringles 2: Savior wins over Silver
GOMTV 1: Savior loses final to Bisu
GOMTV 2: Bisu wins (over Stork)
GOMTV 3: Bisue loses final to Mind
GOMTV 4: Mind loses in Ro4 (to Jaedong), Jaedong wins (over Kal)
Arena: Jaedong loses final to ForGG
Club Day: Forgg loses Ro16 (to Stork), Bisu wins final (over Jangbi)
Lost Saga: Bisu loses Ro32 (to Savior, Zero), Luxury wins (over Jangbi)
Avalon: Luxury loses Ro32 (Effort, Hwasin), Calm wins (over Kwanro)
NATE: Calm loses Ro32 (Best, Light), Jaedong wins (over Flash)
Hanafos: Jaedong loses final to Flash
Bigfile: Flash wins (over Jaedong)
PDPop: Flash loses Ro32 (SSak, Classic), Hydra wins (over great)
ABC Mart: Hydra loses semifinals (to Flash), Flash wins the last MSL (over Zero)
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Taeja should be first. Glad to see PartinG back on the power rank. Most of my favorite players are on the power rank Yaaayyy
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I suggest the following top
IDRA
Taeja
INnoVation
MMA
JD
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Are you going to be doing a power rank for october?
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On October 05 2013 03:01 partydude89 wrote:
Are you going to be doing a power rank for october?
They were going to do one, but then you made this post, so it won't happen.
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On October 05 2013 03:06 braller wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 03:01 partydude89 wrote:
Are you going to be doing a power rank for october? They were going to do one, but then you made this post, so it won't happen.
IM KILLING ESPORTS
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I don't disagree with the list. BUT
How many more tournaments do zerg have to get murdered in before we can see some fair changes? I watch a lot of games, almost all of them available to watch, and Im just tired of always watching zerg loose. They win some games, but so very few. I think this list kind of reflects that.
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On October 07 2013 01:15 Aardbark wrote:
I don't disagree with the list. BUT
How many more tournaments do zerg have to get murdered in before we can see some fair changes? I watch a lot of games, almost all of them available to watch, and Im just tired of always watching zerg loose. They win some games, but so very few. I think this list kind of reflects that.
Do you watch WCS KR? Soulkey and Soo are in Ro4...
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Been too long since ive seen MC mentioned in a power rank  , props for mentioning Nani and plz sthap with the post stephano shit, Nani is still around and did better in GSL anyway while also winning foreign tournaments and beating top koreans.
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On October 07 2013 01:32 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 01:15 Aardbark wrote:
I don't disagree with the list. BUT
How many more tournaments do zerg have to get murdered in before we can see some fair changes? I watch a lot of games, almost all of them available to watch, and Im just tired of always watching zerg loose. They win some games, but so very few. I think this list kind of reflects that. Do you watch WCS KR? Soulkey and Soo are in Ro4...
Yes I do, though I haven't watched it to the Ro4 yet for season 3. And just because there are like 3 or 4 VERY good zerg players that can win dispite the zerg sucking, doesn't mean that zerg aren't loosing most matches overall. I don't play, I just watch, and zerg loose most of the time in tournament.
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On October 07 2013 02:51 Aardbark wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 01:32 vthree wrote:On October 07 2013 01:15 Aardbark wrote:
I don't disagree with the list. BUT
How many more tournaments do zerg have to get murdered in before we can see some fair changes? I watch a lot of games, almost all of them available to watch, and Im just tired of always watching zerg loose. They win some games, but so very few. I think this list kind of reflects that. Do you watch WCS KR? Soulkey and Soo are in Ro4... Yes I do, though I haven't watched it to the Ro4 yet for season 3. And just because there are like 3 or 4 VERY good zerg players that can win dispite the zerg sucking, doesn't mean that zerg aren't loosing most matches overall. I don't play, I just watch, and zerg loose most of the time in tournament.
It's funny how biased your writing is. if couple terran/protoss players are doing well = imbalance. but when couple zergs are doing fine = They so stronk to play bad race and still win!!!
Balance wise zergs are doing really good ZvP was a bit zerg favoured for some time now it is kinda even. ZvT, too is kinda even now even a bit zerg favoured because zerg players have learned to play against terran style. And please don't mention MMA 3-0 Nerchio and Vortix. Top tier terran player vs good, but not top tier zerg players it shouldn't be big surprise that MMA wins.
If terran player wins tournament it doesn't necessary mean game is imbalanced or some race is worse than other. Bomber winning wcs season 2 for example, He sure played really well but tbh last game against Scarlett should have gone Scarletts way if she had paid attention to minimap (she saw the scv going build barracks) if that happen we would have seen finals between JD and Scarlett/TaeJa and it might have gone waaaay different.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On October 07 2013 02:51 Aardbark wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 01:32 vthree wrote:On October 07 2013 01:15 Aardbark wrote:
I don't disagree with the list. BUT
How many more tournaments do zerg have to get murdered in before we can see some fair changes? I watch a lot of games, almost all of them available to watch, and Im just tired of always watching zerg loose. They win some games, but so very few. I think this list kind of reflects that. Do you watch WCS KR? Soulkey and Soo are in Ro4... Yes I do, though I haven't watched it to the Ro4 yet for season 3. And just because there are like 3 or 4 VERY good zerg players that can win dispite the zerg sucking, doesn't mean that zerg aren't loosing most matches overall. I don't play, I just watch, and zerg loose most of the time in tournament.
Too obvious attempts to bait.
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MMA going to make top 5 for October Power Rank. Make it happen!
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On October 07 2013 03:34 Darrkhan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 02:51 Aardbark wrote:On October 07 2013 01:32 vthree wrote:On October 07 2013 01:15 Aardbark wrote:
I don't disagree with the list. BUT
How many more tournaments do zerg have to get murdered in before we can see some fair changes? I watch a lot of games, almost all of them available to watch, and Im just tired of always watching zerg loose. They win some games, but so very few. I think this list kind of reflects that. Do you watch WCS KR? Soulkey and Soo are in Ro4... Yes I do, though I haven't watched it to the Ro4 yet for season 3. And just because there are like 3 or 4 VERY good zerg players that can win dispite the zerg sucking, doesn't mean that zerg aren't loosing most matches overall. I don't play, I just watch, and zerg loose most of the time in tournament. It's funny how biased your writing is. if couple terran/protoss players are doing well = imbalance. but when couple zergs are doing fine = They so stronk to play bad race and still win!!! Balance wise zergs are doing really good ZvP was a bit zerg favoured for some time now it is kinda even. ZvT, too is kinda even now even a bit zerg favoured because zerg players have learned to play against terran style. And please don't mention MMA 3-0 Nerchio and Vortix. Top tier terran player vs good, but not top tier zerg players it shouldn't be big surprise that MMA wins. If terran player wins tournament it doesn't necessary mean game is imbalanced or some race is worse than other. Bomber winning wcs season 2 for example, He sure played really well but tbh last game against Scarlett should have gone Scarletts way if she had paid attention to minimap (she saw the scv going build barracks) if that happen we would have seen finals between JD and Scarlett/TaeJa and it might have gone waaaay different.
One Im not baiting. And two Im not trying to be biast, not intentionaly so.
Im not complaining because I saw a (in your words) a cupple of zergs loose to terren and protoss. Im bringing it up because most zerg loose out of hundreds of games. Again yes zerg can win, and I dont care what race wins a tournament. A tournament winner is just whoever is the best player at the time, or the luckyest, or somone who was on a hot streak. Whoever wins a tournamet, its because they are the best, reguarless of race.
I dont see Bommer or MMA win and then instantly think that zerg suck. They are both very good players and deserve to win. Im talking about in general overall, across all tournaments. I just watched maybe 30 games today, mostly the stuff on MLG. And right now zerg are 2-12 vs protoss. Most of the time watching WCS either Korea, or Europ, or America, in general zerg loose most of the time. Yes again there are some great zerg players who do very well, but if you look at the recent tournaments, if there is a zerg involved and its not playing another zerg, its most likely going to loose.
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EPT
