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991 Posts
On September 12 2013 03:08 Taipoka wrote:
Some people fail to realize one thing, and i think its because people really need to
think about SC/SC2 as a mechanical superior game, not casual game, to fell better.
But after watching some LOL/Dota tounaments to see wtf is this "Moba" thing, i came with 1 conclusion.
Lets imagine we have a WOOOOOOOWWWWW meter, which measures the croud screaming (Yes WOOOOOOOOWWW).
In a 40 min game LOL/Dota/SC (Yes, i put SC together with "Moba") vs SC2, do you imagine how many times, and the rate of WOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW you will hear at each game.
So i realized the SC/Moba thing gives more emotion to the crowd, and thats what the crowd want.
On SC2, unless you have a timing push, you will have 15 min of boring conversation between the casters, so we have some (If not only 1) WOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW moment.
i think the huge viewer number comes from the huge player base. MOBAs are a trend like CS was a trend in 2000. i dont think there's any easy reasons except "right time, right place"... sheer luck, if you will.
WC3 DotA didnt take off. why? wrong time, wrong place. CS was a mod just like dota... yet it became huge. WHY? CS was an extremely uncasual and very unforgiving game. you had to wait 2 minutes doing nothing everytime you died. and you died quite often.
why did CS get huge and DotA didnt really?
see, fishing for reasons is kinda fruitless 
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 12 2013 03:08 Taipoka wrote:
Some people fail to realize one thing, and i think its because people really need to
think about SC/SC2 as a mechanical superior game, not casual game, to fell better.
But after watching some LOL/Dota tounaments to see wtf is this "Moba" thing, i came with 1 conclusion.
Lets imagine we have a WOOOOOOOWWWWW meter, which measures the croud screaming (Yes WOOOOOOOOWWW).
In a 40 min game LOL/Dota/SC (Yes, i put SC together with "Moba") vs SC2, do you imagine how many times, and the rate of WOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW you will hear at each game.
So i realized the SC/Moba thing gives more emotion to the crowd, and thats what the crowd want.
On SC2, unless you have a timing push, you will have 15 min of boring conversation between the casters, so we have some (If not only 1) WOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW moment.
Amount of emotion i receive when watching awesome Dota 2 game(as claimed by many underdog won in it): what? they won? Cool, i see they wiped out that, got Roshan, done that, did not throw their lead and just won.
Amount of emotion i receive during when watching awesome SC2 game(as claimed by many clear underdog won in it): Holy crap, how did he do that, sick multitask, pulling him apart, while buying to time to get his tech and upgrades out, sick play by winner.
On September 12 2013 03:20 beg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 03:08 Taipoka wrote:
Some people fail to realize one thing, and i think its because people really need to
think about SC/SC2 as a mechanical superior game, not casual game, to fell better.
But after watching some LOL/Dota tounaments to see wtf is this "Moba" thing, i came with 1 conclusion.
Lets imagine we have a WOOOOOOOWWWWW meter, which measures the croud screaming (Yes WOOOOOOOOWWW).
In a 40 min game LOL/Dota/SC (Yes, i put SC together with "Moba") vs SC2, do you imagine how many times, and the rate of WOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW you will hear at each game.
So i realized the SC/Moba thing gives more emotion to the crowd, and thats what the crowd want.
On SC2, unless you have a timing push, you will have 15 min of boring conversation between the casters, so we have some (If not only 1) WOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW moment. i think the huge viewer number comes from the huge player base. MOBAs are a trend like CS was a trend in 2000. i dont think there's any easy reasons except "right time, right place"... sheer luck, if you will.
Like BW was in Korea... just a coincidence :D
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On September 12 2013 03:20 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 03:08 Taipoka wrote:
Some people fail to realize one thing, and i think its because people really need to
think about SC/SC2 as a mechanical superior game, not casual game, to fell better.
But after watching some LOL/Dota tounaments to see wtf is this "Moba" thing, i came with 1 conclusion.
Lets imagine we have a WOOOOOOOWWWWW meter, which measures the croud screaming (Yes WOOOOOOOOWWW).
In a 40 min game LOL/Dota/SC (Yes, i put SC together with "Moba") vs SC2, do you imagine how many times, and the rate of WOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW you will hear at each game.
So i realized the SC/Moba thing gives more emotion to the crowd, and thats what the crowd want.
On SC2, unless you have a timing push, you will have 15 min of boring conversation between the casters, so we have some (If not only 1) WOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW moment. Amount of emotion i receive when watching awesome Dota 2 game(as claimed by many underdog won in it): what? they won? Cool, i see they wiped out that, got Roshan, done that, did not throw their lead and just won. Amount of emotion i receive during when watching awesome SC2 game(as claimed by many clear underdog won in it): Holy crap, how did he do that, sick multitask, pulling him apart, while buying to time to get his tech and upgrades out, sick play by winner. Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 03:20 beg wrote:On September 12 2013 03:08 Taipoka wrote:
Some people fail to realize one thing, and i think its because people really need to
think about SC/SC2 as a mechanical superior game, not casual game, to fell better.
But after watching some LOL/Dota tounaments to see wtf is this "Moba" thing, i came with 1 conclusion.
Lets imagine we have a WOOOOOOOWWWWW meter, which measures the croud screaming (Yes WOOOOOOOOWWW).
In a 40 min game LOL/Dota/SC (Yes, i put SC together with "Moba") vs SC2, do you imagine how many times, and the rate of WOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW you will hear at each game.
So i realized the SC/Moba thing gives more emotion to the crowd, and thats what the crowd want.
On SC2, unless you have a timing push, you will have 15 min of boring conversation between the casters, so we have some (If not only 1) WOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW moment. i think the huge viewer number comes from the huge player base. MOBAs are a trend like CS was a trend in 2000. i dont think there's any easy reasons except "right time, right place"... sheer luck, if you will. Like BW was in Korea... just a coincidence :D
Sorry.
I know you are a important person in our world, everyone is 
But your does not constitute the crowd which i was talking about.
Its not about our opinions, is about the crowd watching the games on big tounaments.
Just watch it and conclude by yourself.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 12 2013 03:27 Taipoka wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 03:20 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 12 2013 03:08 Taipoka wrote:
Some people fail to realize one thing, and i think its because people really need to
think about SC/SC2 as a mechanical superior game, not casual game, to fell better.
But after watching some LOL/Dota tounaments to see wtf is this "Moba" thing, i came with 1 conclusion.
Lets imagine we have a WOOOOOOOWWWWW meter, which measures the croud screaming (Yes WOOOOOOOOWWW).
In a 40 min game LOL/Dota/SC (Yes, i put SC together with "Moba") vs SC2, do you imagine how many times, and the rate of WOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW you will hear at each game.
So i realized the SC/Moba thing gives more emotion to the crowd, and thats what the crowd want.
On SC2, unless you have a timing push, you will have 15 min of boring conversation between the casters, so we have some (If not only 1) WOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW moment. Amount of emotion i receive when watching awesome Dota 2 game(as claimed by many underdog won in it): what? they won? Cool, i see they wiped out that, got Roshan, done that, did not throw their lead and just won. Amount of emotion i receive during when watching awesome SC2 game(as claimed by many clear underdog won in it): Holy crap, how did he do that, sick multitask, pulling him apart, while buying to time to get his tech and upgrades out, sick play by winner. On September 12 2013 03:20 beg wrote:On September 12 2013 03:08 Taipoka wrote:
Some people fail to realize one thing, and i think its because people really need to
think about SC/SC2 as a mechanical superior game, not casual game, to fell better.
But after watching some LOL/Dota tounaments to see wtf is this "Moba" thing, i came with 1 conclusion.
Lets imagine we have a WOOOOOOOWWWWW meter, which measures the croud screaming (Yes WOOOOOOOOWWW).
In a 40 min game LOL/Dota/SC (Yes, i put SC together with "Moba") vs SC2, do you imagine how many times, and the rate of WOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW you will hear at each game.
So i realized the SC/Moba thing gives more emotion to the crowd, and thats what the crowd want.
On SC2, unless you have a timing push, you will have 15 min of boring conversation between the casters, so we have some (If not only 1) WOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW moment. i think the huge viewer number comes from the huge player base. MOBAs are a trend like CS was a trend in 2000. i dont think there's any easy reasons except "right time, right place"... sheer luck, if you will. Like BW was in Korea... just a coincidence :D Sorry. I know you are a important person in our world, everyone is But your does not constitute the crowd which i was talking about. Its not about our opinions, is about the crowd watching the games on big tounaments. Just watch it and conclude by yourself.
I watched TI3, never understood the crowd, concluded that it is bunch of nerds, that is proud to pay some bux to watch, what bunch of nerds will get 1.6 million richer. But that's just me, you are right. Simply no game has Wwowowowowowowo effect nowadays for me, BW especially.
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On September 12 2013 02:58 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 02:42 Clbull wrote:On September 11 2013 22:55 geokilla wrote:On September 11 2013 20:20 saddaromma wrote:On September 11 2013 20:10 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 11 2013 20:01 a4bisu wrote:
Why don't Blizzard just make a SCII version of Brood war? It will bring us back those good old spl, msl, osl.
Oh well, it will instantly kill WoL or HotS. And they will make no money. It will not bring us any spl, osl, msl. You must be naive to even bother thinking so. Why? Cause LoL. (not to mention MBC went full music channel soon after match fixing scandal (if my memory serves me right)), What LoL has to do with sc2's decline? SC2 started falling apart long before LoL took off in Korea. BW left huge empty space which SC2 couldn't fill and LoL naturally took it. LoL is constantly evolving, SC2 doesn't. I can't understand some people around here. It seems best strategy is to sit and do nothing. Whenever I suggest any change I'll automatically become SC2-hater and will be asked to leave the thread. When the community leaves SC2 for LoL, SC2 can't sustain itself. That's because SC2 is less fun to play, has too many issues, and the skill ceiling so too damn high. Most people play games to have fun in a relaxed manner. LoL delivers that according to my friends. Out of all my friends that I added on SC2, I'm the only one left that plays SC2. There used to be like 30 people on at any given time. Let me explain a few things. I have quite a few friends that play LoL or Dota 2 who mocked me for liking StarCraft 2 or started groaning whenever I'd even give it even one mention in a conversation. Out of all the people I added on SC2, very few of them still play. One friend stopped following the scene in late 2012 because of the patchzerg pandemic and stagnant, boring metagame of WoL, another who told me she was impressed with how Ret played in the Battle.net European Invitational against Naniwa stopped following the scene by the next year out of the same reason. I used to be part of an anime/gaming society at university. When greeting myself during our first meetup, I mentioned one of my favorite games was StarCraft II and I liked watching tournaments. Two people chuckled at me and I think a few others were trying to hold back laughter. Mind you, Brits really hate the idea of video games as a competitive sport for some reason, but to receive ridicule from gamers and otakus, some of whom were regular LoL players? They were LoL players, what did you expect :3? And i guess, it is rather known, that LoL community is one of more toxic ones (and that correlates with my theory of the community being the more toxic, the larger it is).
Eh part of the reason I've been playing more league recently is how toxic I find the sc2 community especially as a terran player On September 11 2013 22:22 Maeldun wrote:
Well terran seems pretty broken right now, so that was more my point. They get free 3/3 and crazy aoe damage. Derp rally attack. Super "macro" skills required (that is, queuing masses of marines, mines, medivacs).
User was warned for this post
Is an example of what I'm talking about, and it's sad how common it is people think this way, especially when the race you play is the least played race so the majority tends to side against you. When I do play sc2 now I just play protoss because it's the most played race and thus the most accepted.
I really don't think it's any worse in league, it might even be better, people aren't divided by what champions they pick.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 12 2013 04:06 Nibbler89 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 02:58 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 12 2013 02:42 Clbull wrote:On September 11 2013 22:55 geokilla wrote:On September 11 2013 20:20 saddaromma wrote:On September 11 2013 20:10 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 11 2013 20:01 a4bisu wrote:
Why don't Blizzard just make a SCII version of Brood war? It will bring us back those good old spl, msl, osl.
Oh well, it will instantly kill WoL or HotS. And they will make no money. It will not bring us any spl, osl, msl. You must be naive to even bother thinking so. Why? Cause LoL. (not to mention MBC went full music channel soon after match fixing scandal (if my memory serves me right)), What LoL has to do with sc2's decline? SC2 started falling apart long before LoL took off in Korea. BW left huge empty space which SC2 couldn't fill and LoL naturally took it. LoL is constantly evolving, SC2 doesn't. I can't understand some people around here. It seems best strategy is to sit and do nothing. Whenever I suggest any change I'll automatically become SC2-hater and will be asked to leave the thread. When the community leaves SC2 for LoL, SC2 can't sustain itself. That's because SC2 is less fun to play, has too many issues, and the skill ceiling so too damn high. Most people play games to have fun in a relaxed manner. LoL delivers that according to my friends. Out of all my friends that I added on SC2, I'm the only one left that plays SC2. There used to be like 30 people on at any given time. Let me explain a few things. I have quite a few friends that play LoL or Dota 2 who mocked me for liking StarCraft 2 or started groaning whenever I'd even give it even one mention in a conversation. Out of all the people I added on SC2, very few of them still play. One friend stopped following the scene in late 2012 because of the patchzerg pandemic and stagnant, boring metagame of WoL, another who told me she was impressed with how Ret played in the Battle.net European Invitational against Naniwa stopped following the scene by the next year out of the same reason. I used to be part of an anime/gaming society at university. When greeting myself during our first meetup, I mentioned one of my favorite games was StarCraft II and I liked watching tournaments. Two people chuckled at me and I think a few others were trying to hold back laughter. Mind you, Brits really hate the idea of video games as a competitive sport for some reason, but to receive ridicule from gamers and otakus, some of whom were regular LoL players? They were LoL players, what did you expect :3? And i guess, it is rather known, that LoL community is one of more toxic ones (and that correlates with my theory of the community being the more toxic, the larger it is). Eh part of the reason I've been playing more league recently is how toxic I find the sc2 community especially as a terran player Show nested quote +On September 11 2013 22:22 Maeldun wrote:
Well terran seems pretty broken right now, so that was more my point. They get free 3/3 and crazy aoe damage. Derp rally attack. Super "macro" skills required (that is, queuing masses of marines, mines, medivacs).
User was warned for this post Is an example of what I'm talking about, and it's sad how common it is people think this way, especially when the race you play is the least played race so the majority tends to side against you. When I do play sc2 now I just play protoss because it's the most played race and thus the most accepted. I really don't think it's any worse in league, it might even be better, people aren't divided by what champions they pick.
To be fair, while sc2 community is whiny, it is not really toxic for the most part. Though, i probably have immunity to those persons, since i consider 'em bad players (because no good player would say that terran is ez to play lol).
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On September 12 2013 04:26 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 04:06 Nibbler89 wrote:On September 12 2013 02:58 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 12 2013 02:42 Clbull wrote:On September 11 2013 22:55 geokilla wrote:On September 11 2013 20:20 saddaromma wrote:On September 11 2013 20:10 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 11 2013 20:01 a4bisu wrote:
Why don't Blizzard just make a SCII version of Brood war? It will bring us back those good old spl, msl, osl.
Oh well, it will instantly kill WoL or HotS. And they will make no money. It will not bring us any spl, osl, msl. You must be naive to even bother thinking so. Why? Cause LoL. (not to mention MBC went full music channel soon after match fixing scandal (if my memory serves me right)), What LoL has to do with sc2's decline? SC2 started falling apart long before LoL took off in Korea. BW left huge empty space which SC2 couldn't fill and LoL naturally took it. LoL is constantly evolving, SC2 doesn't. I can't understand some people around here. It seems best strategy is to sit and do nothing. Whenever I suggest any change I'll automatically become SC2-hater and will be asked to leave the thread. When the community leaves SC2 for LoL, SC2 can't sustain itself. That's because SC2 is less fun to play, has too many issues, and the skill ceiling so too damn high. Most people play games to have fun in a relaxed manner. LoL delivers that according to my friends. Out of all my friends that I added on SC2, I'm the only one left that plays SC2. There used to be like 30 people on at any given time. Let me explain a few things. I have quite a few friends that play LoL or Dota 2 who mocked me for liking StarCraft 2 or started groaning whenever I'd even give it even one mention in a conversation. Out of all the people I added on SC2, very few of them still play. One friend stopped following the scene in late 2012 because of the patchzerg pandemic and stagnant, boring metagame of WoL, another who told me she was impressed with how Ret played in the Battle.net European Invitational against Naniwa stopped following the scene by the next year out of the same reason. I used to be part of an anime/gaming society at university. When greeting myself during our first meetup, I mentioned one of my favorite games was StarCraft II and I liked watching tournaments. Two people chuckled at me and I think a few others were trying to hold back laughter. Mind you, Brits really hate the idea of video games as a competitive sport for some reason, but to receive ridicule from gamers and otakus, some of whom were regular LoL players? They were LoL players, what did you expect :3? And i guess, it is rather known, that LoL community is one of more toxic ones (and that correlates with my theory of the community being the more toxic, the larger it is). Eh part of the reason I've been playing more league recently is how toxic I find the sc2 community especially as a terran player On September 11 2013 22:22 Maeldun wrote:
Well terran seems pretty broken right now, so that was more my point. They get free 3/3 and crazy aoe damage. Derp rally attack. Super "macro" skills required (that is, queuing masses of marines, mines, medivacs).
User was warned for this post Is an example of what I'm talking about, and it's sad how common it is people think this way, especially when the race you play is the least played race so the majority tends to side against you. When I do play sc2 now I just play protoss because it's the most played race and thus the most accepted. I really don't think it's any worse in league, it might even be better, people aren't divided by what champions they pick. To be fair, while sc2 community is whiny, it is not really toxic for the most part. Though, i probably have immunity to those persons, since i consider 'em bad players (because no good player would say that terran is ez to play lol).
SC2 community is just as toxic as any. Fortunately one of the biggest communities we have, TL, filters it out. In-game though, it's a cesspool.
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Video Games dumbing down has been a big problem for awhile. There are thousands of articles written on it.
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/GlenJoyner/20130128/185541/Is_the_video_game_industry_quotdumbing_downquot_for_the_casual.php
I suppose thats why it took Blizzard so long to be convinced to release another hard RTS like starcraft and there are not to many made period and C&C disappeared. RPGs like Diablo 3 is terribly vapid compared to 2 and so on.
Frankly we are lucky they even released StarCraft 2 and support it in this day and age and promise us one more expansion still.
It's popularity has little to do with lack of back and forth action and variety we had in BW though. It's just a fucking hard game which does not appeal to masses.
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On September 12 2013 05:01 tdt wrote:Video Games dumbing down has been a big problem for awhile. There are thousands of articles written on it. http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/GlenJoyner/20130128/185541/Is_the_video_game_industry_quotdumbing_downquot_for_the_casual.phpI suppose thats why it took Blizzard so long to be convinced to release another hard RTS like starcraft and there are not to many made period and C&C disappeared. RPGs like Diablo 3 is terribly vapid compared to 2 and so on. Frankly we are lucky they even released StarCraft 2 and support it in this day and age and promise us one more expansion still. It's popularity has little to do with lack of back and forth action and variety we had in BW though. It's just a fucking hard game which does not appeal to masses.
Is there good music written and performed these days? Sure, but you won't find it in the mainstream. There is no reason that the same thing can't happen to other media, like movies, books, television shows and games. It's completely possible that in the future all popular games will be dumbed down and awful.
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Here's a recording of the translation of MC's post being read aloud: https://soundcloud.com/lumigaming/sk-mcs-thoughts-on-the-current
Today I decided that this might be a nice alternative to presenting some of the content here on TL. Working with translation errors and oddities in grammar was a bit difficult, though I managed to smooth most of it over. It's just a one take recording - As I do more of these, and if there is interest, I will actually edit things and make sure that what I am putting out there is perfect I'm not sure if anyone will care, but I am passionate about reading to people and I'm curious to see how many people would enjoy this. With regard to news and such, this seems like a nice way to make that TL content available in 'podcast' form. I'd appreciate any feedback and support! Now to wait for the next GSL preview article to come out so that I can read perfect English and also to be better aware of the goals for the tone of the speaker/presentation You'll see more of these around. Of course, feel free to edit this into the OP if you'd like! That's the idea!
Off to go do this for other threads!
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Great speech from MC, especially concerning the learning of English which is one of the part of a true professionnal.
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Really late on commending this, but WOW MC has some great insight on almost every aspect of the larger community and the game.... loved every paragraph and thanks so much for translating! I hope Blizzard listens on the doldrums of late game ZvT, or at least the way it feels boxed in so much that this is what happens 90% of the time.
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On September 12 2013 04:06 Nibbler89 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 02:58 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 12 2013 02:42 Clbull wrote:On September 11 2013 22:55 geokilla wrote:On September 11 2013 20:20 saddaromma wrote:On September 11 2013 20:10 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 11 2013 20:01 a4bisu wrote:
Why don't Blizzard just make a SCII version of Brood war? It will bring us back those good old spl, msl, osl.
Oh well, it will instantly kill WoL or HotS. And they will make no money. It will not bring us any spl, osl, msl. You must be naive to even bother thinking so. Why? Cause LoL. (not to mention MBC went full music channel soon after match fixing scandal (if my memory serves me right)), What LoL has to do with sc2's decline? SC2 started falling apart long before LoL took off in Korea. BW left huge empty space which SC2 couldn't fill and LoL naturally took it. LoL is constantly evolving, SC2 doesn't. I can't understand some people around here. It seems best strategy is to sit and do nothing. Whenever I suggest any change I'll automatically become SC2-hater and will be asked to leave the thread. When the community leaves SC2 for LoL, SC2 can't sustain itself. That's because SC2 is less fun to play, has too many issues, and the skill ceiling so too damn high. Most people play games to have fun in a relaxed manner. LoL delivers that according to my friends. Out of all my friends that I added on SC2, I'm the only one left that plays SC2. There used to be like 30 people on at any given time. Let me explain a few things. I have quite a few friends that play LoL or Dota 2 who mocked me for liking StarCraft 2 or started groaning whenever I'd even give it even one mention in a conversation. Out of all the people I added on SC2, very few of them still play. One friend stopped following the scene in late 2012 because of the patchzerg pandemic and stagnant, boring metagame of WoL, another who told me she was impressed with how Ret played in the Battle.net European Invitational against Naniwa stopped following the scene by the next year out of the same reason. I used to be part of an anime/gaming society at university. When greeting myself during our first meetup, I mentioned one of my favorite games was StarCraft II and I liked watching tournaments. Two people chuckled at me and I think a few others were trying to hold back laughter. Mind you, Brits really hate the idea of video games as a competitive sport for some reason, but to receive ridicule from gamers and otakus, some of whom were regular LoL players? They were LoL players, what did you expect :3? And i guess, it is rather known, that LoL community is one of more toxic ones (and that correlates with my theory of the community being the more toxic, the larger it is). Eh part of the reason I've been playing more league recently is how toxic I find the sc2 community especially as a terran player Show nested quote +On September 11 2013 22:22 Maeldun wrote:
Well terran seems pretty broken right now, so that was more my point. They get free 3/3 and crazy aoe damage. Derp rally attack. Super "macro" skills required (that is, queuing masses of marines, mines, medivacs).
User was warned for this post Is an example of what I'm talking about, and it's sad how common it is people think this way, especially when the race you play is the least played race so the majority tends to side against you. When I do play sc2 now I just play protoss because it's the most played race and thus the most accepted. I really don't think it's any worse in league, it might even be better, people aren't divided by what champions they pick.
I bet you were one of those players at the end of WoL who complained about zerg non stop no matter how bad the terran played at times.
Also in reality this community isn't anywhere as toxic as some other communities like LoL or Dota2 or Cod.
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Northern Ireland26235 Posts
Anybody with a functioning brain had a problem with aspects or late game Zerg at the end of WoL
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On September 12 2013 03:20 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 03:08 Taipoka wrote:
Some people fail to realize one thing, and i think its because people really need to
think about SC/SC2 as a mechanical superior game, not casual game, to fell better.
But after watching some LOL/Dota tounaments to see wtf is this "Moba" thing, i came with 1 conclusion.
Lets imagine we have a WOOOOOOOWWWWW meter, which measures the croud screaming (Yes WOOOOOOOOWWW).
In a 40 min game LOL/Dota/SC (Yes, i put SC together with "Moba") vs SC2, do you imagine how many times, and the rate of WOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW you will hear at each game.
So i realized the SC/Moba thing gives more emotion to the crowd, and thats what the crowd want.
On SC2, unless you have a timing push, you will have 15 min of boring conversation between the casters, so we have some (If not only 1) WOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW moment. Amount of emotion i receive when watching awesome Dota 2 game(as claimed by many underdog won in it): what? they won? Cool, i see they wiped out that, got Roshan, done that, did not throw their lead and just won. Amount of emotion i receive during when watching awesome SC2 game(as claimed by many clear underdog won in it): Holy crap, how did he do that, sick multitask, pulling him apart, while buying to time to get his tech and upgrades out, sick play by winner. Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 03:20 beg wrote:On September 12 2013 03:08 Taipoka wrote:
Some people fail to realize one thing, and i think its because people really need to
think about SC/SC2 as a mechanical superior game, not casual game, to fell better.
But after watching some LOL/Dota tounaments to see wtf is this "Moba" thing, i came with 1 conclusion.
Lets imagine we have a WOOOOOOOWWWWW meter, which measures the croud screaming (Yes WOOOOOOOOWWW).
In a 40 min game LOL/Dota/SC (Yes, i put SC together with "Moba") vs SC2, do you imagine how many times, and the rate of WOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW you will hear at each game.
So i realized the SC/Moba thing gives more emotion to the crowd, and thats what the crowd want.
On SC2, unless you have a timing push, you will have 15 min of boring conversation between the casters, so we have some (If not only 1) WOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW moment. i think the huge viewer number comes from the huge player base. MOBAs are a trend like CS was a trend in 2000. i dont think there's any easy reasons except "right time, right place"... sheer luck, if you will. Like BW was in Korea... just a coincidence :D
MOBA just have a lot more wow moments than SC2.
Watch any LCS/OGN games, all of them are guaranteed to have more than one crowd wow-ing moments in a game. (if you don't understand the game, just listen to the crowds)
like this one for example (I just searched randomly):
+ Show Spoiler +
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^Yep I feel like MOBA's team battles last longer than SC2's engagements. You can cogently pinpoint the action happening on the screen and superhuman decision making skills by the players to retreat for surivivability and to hunt down a foe.
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MC, a true professional! Boss Toss has a lot of respect from me.
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On September 12 2013 12:26 Xiphos wrote:
^Yep I feel like MOBA's team battles last longer than SC2's engagements. You can cogently pinpoint the action happening on the screen and superhuman decision making skills by the players to retreat for surivivability and to hunt down a foe.
Yes longer SC2 battles would perhaps provide more immediate clarity on the contributions and effects of the various platoons and individual units, but the second part of your statement is literally a defining characteristic of a high level SC game. The volume of decisions made prior going into a battle and during a battle necessitates and justifies the existence of quality analytical casters who can actually catch all the details and provide it to the audience moment to moment. Even then it can be like a onion's layers when watching a replay and seeing new active decisions you may have missed which in the end played critical roles in the game.
Im not saying MOBA's dont have that, because they do to some degree or another, but SC2 has it in spades. Its just that when it comes to the critical moments in the game I feel the AI is almost too efficient in "compiling" all those decisions into a quick and ruthless end. Second chances are a rarity because of this, small mistakes get punished hard and unless you catch yourself early on can quickly become your coffin.
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To me esport is at an alltime low.
Moba are the big thing right now but I really dont get the hype for those and can't get myself to watch them without getting bored out of my mind. It's way too slow and unexciting from a viewer point of view.
And SC2 hasn't been interesting to me for a long time due to design decisions Blizzard doesn't want to get rid off making the game way too volatile and battles way too quick and too decisive to make the game exciting.
Last e-sport thing I've watched were some pro matches of Age of Conquerors (aoe2)...
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EPT
