On August 31 2013 13:40 LOcDowN wrote: Revealing replays to the public only enhances the competition and make everything better all-around within the competitive spirit that drives e-sport. I'm in full support of it!
That's exactly right.
With more access to replays more players can study and get better, which causes the over skill level to go up, which makes what the people at the top are doing much more impressive.
Increasing the skill level makes a SC2 match more of a show.
The bane of replays is the game revolutionizes much quicker. In other words, players catch up quicker. BW was much better without them. Sorry, but it's true. People could still study the VODs and what have you but there were a number of things we could keep hush, hush and the creativity of the players shined through. If you want to slow things down and give the great players the spotlight longer you would second guess the whole replay resolve.
Basically what youre saying is that the slowing of the metagame is a good thing. I can see your point of view, but I think that the metagame advancing and people having to develop a wider array of strategies/builds/gameplans to be successful is far superior than trying to delay the evolution of the game to avoid people 'catching up'.
It's like PC/phone technology. I'd much rather we had <X> technology now, rather than a company already having the technology, but slowly releasing it in phases over 5 years so everyone has to keep buying their shit and they cash in.
Truly great players should be able to stay with/ahead of the curve regardless of how fast it advances. If someone has worked out some build that proves successful, they shouldn't be able to ride the coat-tails of it for ages until someone eventually figures it out. The faster it gets figured out (with the release of replays), then the faster the game advances, and we will have better games, and less 1 sided stomps.
It also means the potential one-hit wonders wont be as prominent, and people who show strong periods of dominance will prevail (ie Mvp) it's not like Mvp knew a secret that noone else knew, he was just able to adapt/work with nearly everything that was thrown at him as he was better prepared.
Giving more players that opportunity can only be a good thing in the big picture.
On August 31 2013 13:40 LOcDowN wrote: Revealing replays to the public only enhances the competition and make everything better all-around within the competitive spirit that drives e-sport. I'm in full support of it!
That's exactly right.
With more access to replays more players can study and get better, which causes the over skill level to go up, which makes what the people at the top are doing much more impressive.
Increasing the skill level makes a SC2 match more of a show.
The bane of replays is the game revolutionizes much quicker. In other words, players catch up quicker. BW was much better without them. Sorry, but it's true. People could still study the VODs and what have you but there were a number of things we could keep hush, hush and the creativity of the players shined through. If you want to slow things down and give the great players the spotlight longer you would second guess the whole replay resolve.
Basically what youre saying is that the slowing of the metagame is a good thing. I can see your point of view, but I think that the metagame advancing and people having to develop a wider array of strategies/builds/gameplans to be successful is far superior than trying to delay the evolution of the game to avoid people 'catching up'.
It's like PC/phone technology. I'd much rather we had <X> technology now, rather than a company already having the technology, but slowly releasing it in phases over 5 years so everyone has to keep buying their shit and they cash in.
Truly great players should be able to stay with/ahead of the curve regardless of how fast it advances. If someone has worked out some build that proves successful, they shouldn't be able to ride the coat-tails of it for ages until someone eventually figures it out. The faster it gets figured out (with the release of replays), then the faster the game advances, and we will have better games, and less 1 sided stomps.
It also means the potential one-hit wonders wont be as prominent, and people who show strong periods of dominance will prevail (ie Mvp) it's not like Mvp knew a secret that noone else knew, he was just able to adapt/work with nearly everything that was thrown at him as he was better prepared.
Giving more players that opportunity can only be a good thing in the big picture.
A big part of the best players skill was always (at least in bw) to be ahead of the curve. This didn't necessarily mean that they knew a couple of 'tricks' that other people didn't knew but they probably had better micro and macro mechanics. If you can study exactly what they are doing, you are probably going to catch up more quickly.
Even now its just a coin toss who wins tournaments (that's why the power ranking had to switched into an acheivement ranking - there is almost no point in speculating who the stronger player is since anyone can beat anyone). If this is indeed making it harder for the better players to stay ahead of the curve it is bad for the competition.
without reading all the posts on the thread...let me guess...Blizzards gets alot of hate as always. I think it is a brilliant idea! Thank you Blizzard!
On August 31 2013 19:23 cutler wrote: without reading all the posts on the thread...let me guess...Blizzards gets alot of hate as always. I think it is a brilliant idea! Thank you Blizzard!
Blizzard gonna get hate from KeSPA and Koreans in general for giving away their replays for sure :D
On August 31 2013 06:08 Greendotz wrote: This is pretty damn cool actually. Really good to see Blizzard more willing to work with third parties
+1
Now, does this take away MLG's reason to refuse to release replays because they contain "information that allows you to DDOS players"? Because honestly, I thought that was bullshit from day 1. This means Blizzard either fixed that, or nobody gives enough of a shit because they got the replays from OSL and GSL! I don't think they were ever required to forcefully send replays to Blizzard so Blizzard could eventually backstab them by releasing their precious replays to the world. I'm pretty sure KeSpa and eSF are cool with this.
"Are cool with". Blizzard now basically has control over all major competition in AM and Korea, so they have to accept it, pretty much.
The release does indicate they have discussed with players regarding concerns, so it's not like a unilateral moved forced on them by Blizzard, but you have to consider that Blizzard is in charge of WCS, essentially, and hence players don't really have a lot of choice. If they don't want to have replays released, they basically cannot compete in WCS, so even if eSF/Kespa didn't agree it wouldn't necessarily matter.
Releasing replays is a non issue when compared to Broodwar because Starcraft 2 has production tab open pretty much all game long in every tournament. All the information is already up for grabs, and this move helps players who train individually because you don't need to waste as much time on replay as you would on VOD.
Also, this is great move for 99% of the people playing this game, since I'd wager it's very small minority who actually goes through VOD's with pen/paper.
Most likely Kespa has agreed to the release of replays as well, and why wouldn't they because it literally changes nothing for cream of the crop players.
On August 31 2013 06:08 Greendotz wrote: This is pretty damn cool actually. Really good to see Blizzard more willing to work with third parties
+1
Now, does this take away MLG's reason to refuse to release replays because they contain "information that allows you to DDOS players"? Because honestly, I thought that was bullshit from day 1. This means Blizzard either fixed that, or nobody gives enough of a shit because they got the replays from OSL and GSL! I don't think they were ever required to forcefully send replays to Blizzard so Blizzard could eventually backstab them by releasing their precious replays to the world. I'm pretty sure KeSpa and eSF are cool with this.
"Are cool with". Blizzard now basically has control over all major competition in AM and Korea, so they have to accept it, pretty much.
The release does indicate they have discussed with players regarding concerns, so it's not like a unilateral moved forced on them by Blizzard, but you have to consider that Blizzard is in charge of WCS, essentially, and hence players don't really have a lot of choice. If they don't want to have replays released, they basically cannot compete in WCS, so even if eSF/Kespa didn't agree it wouldn't necessarily matter.
Some coach from eSF team has already said they don't agree with this release, the team is very unhappy with this. If eSF team is not happy about this, there is no way KeSPA team will be happy. Basically, Blizzard just irritated all Korean teams.
On August 31 2013 06:34 Teoita wrote: Holy fuck this is awesome.
No its not Teo its horrible #deadgame. ..... /sarcasm
Honestly super cool and very exciting! Can't wait to be at my new place to dive into some of these. Hope they keep releasing these replays post season! Blizzard getting better at doing things right!
On August 31 2013 06:08 Greendotz wrote: This is pretty damn cool actually. Really good to see Blizzard more willing to work with third parties
+1
Now, does this take away MLG's reason to refuse to release replays because they contain "information that allows you to DDOS players"? Because honestly, I thought that was bullshit from day 1. This means Blizzard either fixed that, or nobody gives enough of a shit because they got the replays from OSL and GSL! I don't think they were ever required to forcefully send replays to Blizzard so Blizzard could eventually backstab them by releasing their precious replays to the world. I'm pretty sure KeSpa and eSF are cool with this.
"Are cool with". Blizzard now basically has control over all major competition in AM and Korea, so they have to accept it, pretty much.
The release does indicate they have discussed with players regarding concerns, so it's not like a unilateral moved forced on them by Blizzard, but you have to consider that Blizzard is in charge of WCS, essentially, and hence players don't really have a lot of choice. If they don't want to have replays released, they basically cannot compete in WCS, so even if eSF/Kespa didn't agree it wouldn't necessarily matter.
Some coach from eSF team has already said they don't agree with this release, the team is very unhappy with this. If eSF team is not happy about this, there is no way KeSPA team will be happy. Basically, Blizzard just irritated all Korean teams.
It would be bad if they released it during the season, its post season much less important.
On August 31 2013 06:08 Greendotz wrote: This is pretty damn cool actually. Really good to see Blizzard more willing to work with third parties
+1
Now, does this take away MLG's reason to refuse to release replays because they contain "information that allows you to DDOS players"? Because honestly, I thought that was bullshit from day 1. This means Blizzard either fixed that, or nobody gives enough of a shit because they got the replays from OSL and GSL! I don't think they were ever required to forcefully send replays to Blizzard so Blizzard could eventually backstab them by releasing their precious replays to the world. I'm pretty sure KeSpa and eSF are cool with this.
"Are cool with". Blizzard now basically has control over all major competition in AM and Korea, so they have to accept it, pretty much.
The release does indicate they have discussed with players regarding concerns, so it's not like a unilateral moved forced on them by Blizzard, but you have to consider that Blizzard is in charge of WCS, essentially, and hence players don't really have a lot of choice. If they don't want to have replays released, they basically cannot compete in WCS, so even if eSF/Kespa didn't agree it wouldn't necessarily matter.
Some coach from eSF team has already said they don't agree with this release, the team is very unhappy with this. If eSF team is not happy about this, there is no way KeSPA team will be happy. Basically, Blizzard just irritated all Korean teams.
It would be bad if they released it during the season, its post season much less important.
We're considering releasing replays shortly after each match is played, but we're still discussing this both internally and with the players this would impact. In the meantime, you should keep an eye on the portal for the latest information.
On August 31 2013 13:40 LOcDowN wrote: Revealing replays to the public only enhances the competition and make everything better all-around within the competitive spirit that drives e-sport. I'm in full support of it!
That's exactly right.
With more access to replays more players can study and get better, which causes the over skill level to go up, which makes what the people at the top are doing much more impressive.
Increasing the skill level makes a SC2 match more of a show.
The bane of replays is the game revolutionizes much quicker. In other words, players catch up quicker. BW was much better without them. Sorry, but it's true. People could still study the VODs and what have you but there were a number of things we could keep hush, hush and the creativity of the players shined through. If you want to slow things down and give the great players the spotlight longer you would second guess the whole replay resolve.
This is not true. BW's meta shifted rather slowly in the course of a year and the only ones that were really affected were the ones at the very top (JD, Flash, Bisu, Sea, Soulkey, Jangbi, etc) and none of them seemed to have a particularly hard time making new builds and continuing to be innovative at such a level that it became nearly impossible for the lower level ones to keep up. All it meant was there was less time spent where the game stagnated and there were "unbeatable" styles or builds. What seemed invincible one season was utterly destroyed through pure intellect and strategy the next. There's nothing bad about that and in fact its necessary for people to not get pissed off and frustrated at certain styles and builds. The lower levels can benefit by seeing those that understand the game extremely well enough to stay on top solve "unbeatable" build problems and the upper level players can use their brains to their full extent in order to stay on top. There's no demographic of the SC2 population that wouldn't benefit from this.
BW we saw the end of 3 hatch muta, the innovation of the 4-5 rax, the creation of bio into mech transition and FlaSh's double-armory style TvP all moving quickly because of the release of replays. Each new style solving the problems the race saw in the previous season. That all made for a much more interesting game and probably helped contribute to the game not dying out in 2007-2008.
This is going to be a huge change, but we have always been a part of greater changes. Time will tell how this will unfold. Nevertheless, I can see the immense potential growth this change can bring. Wish the best for all of us!
EPT
