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On August 28 2013 19:58 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 19:37 nimdil wrote:On August 28 2013 04:28 Zealously wrote:On August 28 2013 03:45 nimdil wrote:On August 28 2013 03:18 Zealously wrote:On August 28 2013 03:13 nimdil wrote:
When Polt won his triple crown there was big announcement and now when Bomber won his there is not even a mention? :-( Not a "real" triple crown since there is some controversy as to whether or not Code A counts as a Premier KR tournament There is no such controversy for like two years now. People just missed it since 2011 and now they act surprised. I'm not surprised in the slightest; I was here when beat Mvp to win Code A, and I'm a Bomber fan. I still don't think his triple crown is legitimate. I don't think that winning WCG in 2011 was easier than Code A and yet it counts as Korean title (probably...). It also means that Mvp his korean premier titles for like three more Triple Crowns. Honestly it's very sad that Code A never had the prestige or prize pool that its skill level deserved, considering it was the 2nd hardest tournament in the world. It might be hard for some of the newer fans to understand, especially since nowadays Code S is absolutely stacked with talent, but back then it had some very weak players that only stuck around because of a defective system, whereas Code A was arguably much more cut-throat. So if skill is all we're considering, it's pretty dubious to call the MLGs and DreamHacks of 2011 "premier tournaments" but not Code A. (with the exception of MLG Providence I guess) I mean don't get me wrong, they were great events, but let's be honest here, Code A was pretty fucking stacked. Let's not forget how our foreigner heroes fared in Code A in 2011. Hell, let's not forget that some of the biggest SC2 legends faltered repeatedly in Code A only to win their Code S spots by stomping through MLG and then go on to achieve massive success. As for WCG Korea, I'd say it was probably between Code A and Code S at the time, since it had some fairly weak players but also Mvp, MarineKing, GanZi. 
DRG and MC come to mind as people who couldn't make it through Code A -> Up/Downs, although they both only played a single Code A before getting their seeds via MLG, so who knows.
But let's also not forget that the players didn't really care about winning Code A (other than MKP I guess). You had MVP and Bomber basically saying f-it, let's just play it like it's a custom. Supernova and his I don't know how to TvZ, but that's ok I'll just pick two Terrans to pick on finals against Losira.
Of course, when they changed the format to the big up/down groups players started caring, but before then they just saw it as a way into Code S. Even though it was harder than foreign tourneys at the time and sometimes on par with the early rounds of Code S in terms of difficulty, but that's what the system was intended to do: shuffle out the bottom of Code S with the top of Code A.
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On August 29 2013 04:40 Wuster wrote:
DRG and MC come to mind as people who couldn't make it through Code A -> Up/Downs, although they both only played a single Code A before getting their seeds via MLG, so who knows.
MMA. Him and DongRaeGu were far and away top dogs in GSTL at the time, and MC was destroying foreigners left and right overseas. That says quite a bit about the difficulty of Code A.
On August 29 2013 04:40 Wuster wrote:
But let's also not forget that the players didn't really care about winning Code A (other than MKP I guess). You had MVP and Bomber basically saying f-it, let's just play it like it's a custom. Supernova and his I don't know how to TvZ, but that's ok I'll just pick two Terrans to pick on finals against Losira.
Here you have two examples. And even if you're right, making it to the finals of Code A is still an arduous task. Hell, even qualifying for Code A was an arduous task (need I cite the players above again? as well as many others that took quite a while to break out of the wallows of Code B...)
On August 29 2013 04:40 Wuster wrote:
Of course, when they changed the format to the big up/down groups players started caring, but before then they just saw it as a way into Code S. Even though it was harder than foreign tourneys at the time and sometimes on par with the early rounds of Code S in terms of difficulty, but that's what the system was intended to do: shuffle out the bottom of Code S with the top of Code A.
I think you're looking at the early Code S seasons through a mighty pair of rose-tinted glasses. The system was pretty pitifully flawed in terms of shuffling players around, which lead to some incredible talent stuck in Code A for seasons on end, whereas players like FruitDealer, TSL_Rain, anypro, Kyrix etc lingered on the fringe of Code S for far too long. So it's very much an understatement to say it was "sometimes on par with the early rounds of Code S" when the early rounds of Code S were generally pretty terrible, except for an interesting group here and there.
Besides, I don't see how the fact that it was a tournament intended to "shuffle out the bottom of Code S with the top of Code A" is remotely meaningful when all we're talking about here is difficulty. And difficult it was.
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On August 29 2013 05:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2013 04:40 Wuster wrote:
DRG and MC come to mind as people who couldn't make it through Code A -> Up/Downs, although they both only played a single Code A before getting their seeds via MLG, so who knows.
MMA. Him and DongRaeGu were far and away top dogs in GSTL at the time, and MC was destroying foreigners left and right overseas. That says quite a bit about the difficulty of Code A.
Somehow, I totally forgot about MMA. But some players just have problems going from team to individual formats though, I mean where's Yonghwa all these years later? Hero has a lot of issues getting over his nerves too.
On August 29 2013 05:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2013 04:40 Wuster wrote:
But let's also not forget that the players didn't really care about winning Code A (other than MKP I guess). You had MVP and Bomber basically saying f-it, let's just play it like it's a custom. Supernova and his I don't know how to TvZ, but that's ok I'll just pick two Terrans to pick on finals against Losira. Here you have two examples. And even if you're right, making it to the finals of Code A is still an arduous task. Hell, even qualifying for Code A was an arduous task (need I cite the players above again? as well as many others that took quite a while to break out of the wallows of Code B...)
I'm not denying that making it into Code S, through Code A was hard, I'm just saying the progamers didn't take winning the thing as that important. The first winner, Top, also complained about how unimportant Code A was being treated (poor prize money, no trophy, no automatic qualification into Code S, also only 1 day prep time between Ro4 and finals).
That was something people on TL used to complain about for the first 3 Code A's too. The fact that the difference between first and second place was meaningless in terms of getting into Code S. All of that is why they changed the format, so that people would take it more seriously. But that happened after Bomber won.
On August 29 2013 05:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2013 04:40 Wuster wrote:
Of course, when they changed the format to the big up/down groups players started caring, but before then they just saw it as a way into Code S. Even though it was harder than foreign tourneys at the time and sometimes on par with the early rounds of Code S in terms of difficulty, but that's what the system was intended to do: shuffle out the bottom of Code S with the top of Code A. I think you're looking at the early Code S seasons through a mighty pair of rose-tinted glasses. The system was pretty pitifully flawed in terms of shuffling players around, which lead to some incredible talent stuck in Code A for seasons on end, whereas players like FruitDealer, TSL_Rain, anypro, Kyrix etc lingered on the fringe of Code S for far too long. So it's very much an understatement to say it was "sometimes on par with the early rounds of Code S" when the early rounds of Code S were generally pretty terrible, except for an interesting group here and there.
The corollary is it's easy to underestimate some of those early Code-S players for their skill *relative* to the time. Sure Ensnare and Virus would be considered terrible now, but they both beat Nestea during Nestea's prime. I never thought much of Top back then, but he did make a finals. So did Inca.
Funny enough you name Rain one of those terrible Code S vets, and he did drop into Code A, but guess what? He made through Code A and right back into Code S two seasons later...
The fact that MVP and Leenock fell out of Code S during the 2 Code S + 1 Code A mini-brackets means it that the other early Code S players couldn't have been that much of a joke (even if Leenock did lose to someone that retired the next season... although, that probably says more about Leenock's skill back then and how much he's improved).
Of course, the fact that the up/downs favored Code S players was controversial back then and Gom even admitted it was intentional that Code S players were given an advantage to stay in Code S. So ya, some undeserving players stayed too long in Code S.
So it's likely we're both being too skewed in our evaluation of early Code S rounds =p.
On August 29 2013 05:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Besides, I don't see how the fact that it was a tournament intended to "shuffle out the bottom of Code S with the top of Code A" is remotely meaningful when all we're talking about here is difficulty. And difficult it was.
Is that all we're talking about? I was talking about the prestige around Code A in my post. So my point is using difficulty, when Code A was intended to be difficult, doesn't grant it extra prestige when the players / org involved didn't give it prestige (look how casually they killed the tourney format a few seasons ago).
Edit: I'm turning into a bit of a devil's advocate here, so let me clarify my position, which I said in my first post on the topic.
I want to consider Code A a premier tourney, but it wasn't considered one by those closest involved. Plus like other's said, it was never considered a premier tourney by most of the community either (like during the Protoss-never-wins-anything-months, few considered Puzzle - VansVans as a valid counter example)
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The last Sunday was a bad day for Starcraft. I watch 3 days of group stages, quarter finals and such, only to be disappointed by 4:0`s and shit like that. Typical CodeS Style final day... Huge disappointment through and through.
Oh yea.. and a Terran wins....
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Can some1 gibe me a link where I can watch the whole WCS S2 Tournament? I missed it and really want to rewatch it =(
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On August 29 2013 19:14 Dorfmatratze wrote:
Can some1 gibe me a link where I can watch the whole WCS S2 Tournament? I missed it and really want to rewatch it =(
Either on Youtube or on Twitch.
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wow...bombers a beast. I was rooting for taeja though =/
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On August 30 2013 01:05 fireforce7 wrote:
wow...bombers a beast. I was rooting for taeja though =/
Yeah it would've been awesome for Taeja to win...but imo Jaedong needed that tourney.
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On August 30 2013 02:36 zelderan wrote:
Yeah it would've been awesome for Taeja to win...but imo Jaedong needed that tourney.
Totally agree. I was there and it felt like the audience was cheering for Jaedong and Taeja the most (after all non-koreans were out).
I hope he wins his next big tournament, he really deserves it.
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Poland3748 Posts
On August 30 2013 02:46 ExChill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 02:36 zelderan wrote:
Yeah it would've been awesome for Taeja to win...but imo Jaedong needed that tourney. Totally agree. I was there and it felt like the audience was cheering for Jaedong and Taeja the most (after all non-koreans were out). I hope he wins his next big tournament, he really deserves it.
Another silver and he really will be YellOw 2.0
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On August 28 2013 00:47 Spriki wrote:
Fought? More like crushed it!
GJ for defying the laws of the universe Bomber!
I think we're in the eye of the storm. I'm a believer. I sense that Bomber will lose in the first round of everything, and fail to qualify for the Global Finals, finishing at 17th place. Bomber's successes set you up for bigger disappointments, don't forget that.
On August 28 2013 02:20 ThePrince wrote:
Guys. Bomber didn't break the law. If he did he would be in jail.
In fact, the only explanation here is BW Champions Curse > Bomber's Law.
Or it could've just been this. I still feel like it'd be funnier if Bomber gets 17th at the end of the rankings and doesn't manage to make the Global finals because of losing to people he shouldn't be losing to, in standard Bomber fashion. I love the guy's play, but some things you can't stop wondering if it's truly over, or if we're not noticing the giant natural disaster coming from behind.
On August 28 2013 01:17 seoul_kiM wrote:
My favorite top 3 games ever in SC2 history is finalized.
1. Squirtle vs. MVP
2. Innovation vs. Taeja
3. MMA vs. DRG
Is that MVP vs Squirtle game 7 Code S finals BCs vs Archon Toilet? Please tell me it's not. INnoVation vs Taeja was played amazingly from start to finish (with INnoVation's AMAZING defensive positioning and movement, and Taeja's amazing offensive control vs tanks). The MMA vs DRG series had some iffy moments, but was probably one of the best WoL series ever, if not the best (I dropped out of SC2 for a while after the stupid changes Blizzard made that destroyed TvZ). The MMA vs DRG game in the GSTL where they first met was also played insanely well (a time when DRG's ZvT was unbreakable, and MMA was being the most annoying Terran ever, though anytime they played each other, except that series, was basically always a great game).
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On August 30 2013 07:21 RyLai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 01:17 seoul_kiM wrote:
My favorite top 3 games ever in SC2 history is finalized.
1. Squirtle vs. MVP
2. Innovation vs. Taeja
3. MMA vs. DRG
Is that MVP vs Squirtle game 7 Code S finals BCs vs Archon Toilet? Please tell me it's not. INnoVation vs Taeja was played amazingly from start to finish (with INnoVation's AMAZING defensive positioning and movement, and Taeja's amazing offensive control vs tanks). The MMA vs DRG series had some iffy moments, but was probably one of the best WoL series ever, if not the best (I dropped out of SC2 for a while after the stupid changes Blizzard made that destroyed TvZ). The MMA vs DRG game in the GSTL where they first met was also played insanely well (a time when DRG's ZvT was unbreakable, and MMA was being the most annoying Terran ever, though anytime they played each other, except that series, was basically always a great game).
The BC vs Archon Toilet game on Metropolis was set 5 if I recall correctly. And what a pathetic way to end an otherwise great and entertaining game.
Game 7 of the series was the most intense and nail-biting 2rax in SC2 history.
Also, since seoul_kiM says "games", I guess he's referring to the rubber match for MMA vs DRG, not necessarily the entire series, and that one most definitely earns its place as one of the best TvZ games ever played.
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Where can we get the replays of Bomber at this WCS event?
Please!!!
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United States4883 Posts
On September 12 2013 21:31 DusTerr wrote:
And the law won...
Like hahahaha
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On September 12 2013 21:31 DusTerr wrote:
And the law won...
Yup! >
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Code B here he comes :D (i hope not)
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EPT
