Presenting the Most Crazy-ass Prediction of Recent Times
STX_INnoVation at the WCS Season 2 Finals
by Zealously, who is Swedish
A month ago, there was one player everyone was talking about. The Robot Terran, the best interviewee of all time, and also consensus best player in the world: STX SouL's INnoVation. At the end of a stellar regular season, he led his team to their first ever Proleague championship by playing nothing short of perfect in playoffs. He held the WCS Season 1 title, and looked like a peerless champion above all others.
And then he ran into Terrans. Bomber, the talented but inconsistent StarTale Terran, gave the WCS champion a real beating in the OSL. He bested INnoVation in two drawn-out macro games, the very kind of game where Innovation had seemed to be strongest. Though INnoVation would progress to the semi-finals nonetheless, it would only lead to an even more violent thrashing. With the hellbat—previously the pillar of Innovation's TvT—receiving a major nerf, INnoVation faced an opponent who was not at all intimidated, and read him like an open book. Maru's 4 - 0 stomp of Innovation was one for the history books, and we all know what happened next. Maru went on to win the OSL, beating Rain convincingly as well in the finals.
There are some who say that INnoVation was still the best player in the tournament and that he was the victim of an extremely rare fluke. But what if, instead, INnoVation has some real problems he has to overcome?
I don't question Innovation's TvZ prowess—no one matches his efficiency nor his brutality. Long-time Starcraft II fans will remember sC's famous marine rally, where he'd just rally marines across the map until his opponent died. Innovation does the same thing, but with more tools at his disposal, and about 300% better. With an unmatchable combination of speed, macro, and multitasking, INnoVation is perfectly adapted to playing the hyper-aggressive brand of modern TvZ.
But recently, it's looked like his most powerful weapon is only weapon. He went a disappointing 0 - 6 against Bomber and Maru in the OSL, and on top of that got his behind handed to him by PartinG in WCG Korea. TaeJa, always the honest and pragmatic player, gave a telling answer when asked how he felt about being matched up against INnoVation for his first match: "Since we're both doing badly in TvT lately, I'm not worried."
There are only two Zergs at the Season 2 finals, and in no circumstance can Innovation win the championship solely on the back of TvZ. He may be the defending champion, but he now has as much, if not more to prove than any of the other contestants. The forecast for INnoVation is cloudy with a chance of Rain, or possibly Maru. Can he prove that he is championship-class in all three match-ups?
One does have to wonder if Innovation is even worried, however. Hell, is he capable of being worried? The guy made an unstoppable run through the last WCS Season Finals after being reverse-swept by Soulkey in Code S, so I'll wager that if there's a player who can bounce back from crushing disappointment, it's him. But INnoVation's problem isn't just about keeping a solid mentality, it's learning from the past and growing as a player.
If the last season represented the victory of mechanics, speed and precision, then this season has been about the power of unpredictability. With Maru pulling out not one but three figurative rabbits out of his hat to blow Innovation's mind before kicking him out of the OSL, its clear Innovation's next-level mechanics alone won't carry him in TvT. His builds are crisp and his execution equally so, but he lacks the ”Mvp factor”, the series planning and unpredictability that makes or breaks champions. We're not at the stage in Starcraft II where we can call someone a perfect player, but in terms of gameplay alone, Innovation comes fairly close. But when it comes to intelligent play – outsmarting opponents, finding the perfectly tailored build, Innovation isn't up there.
Obviously, INnoVation doesn't need an Mvp or NesTea brain to be a champion, but there's no doubting that it would help. If Innovation can find the cunning to pair with his brute force, then he could establish a dynasty. But from what we've seen so far, it doesn't look like he will.
Brains vs. Brawn: it's an old cliche but a particularly relevant one at the WCS finals. Let's see which one prevails.
WCS Season II Finals: Ro16 Group C Preview
Duckdeok, INnoVation, TaeJa, NaNiwa
Poor Alliance.NaNiwa. As if being dumped in the same group as STX_INnoVation and Liquid`TaeJa – terrifying opponents for any Protoss – wasn't enough, he has to put up with playing the guy who embarrassed him in the Round of 8 in WCS Europe.
Unrelenting in his pursuit of victory, Naniwa plowed his way through Vortix in the consolation matches to ensure he'd be able to redeem himself at the Season Finals. Despite Naniwa's strong showing in the Protoss mirror at MLG, it still seems he's not confident in the match-up. Facing a player like MVP.duckdeok, whose mix-and-match playstyle contains about everything in the offensive playbook, should make for a very difficult first match.
But really, Naniwa may actually be happy with this draw. We've known for a long time that the Swede is all about proving himself and wanting to become the best. What better way to do that than playing the guy who eliminated you just a couple of weeks ago and won your WCS region, but also playing two players with Protoss kill lists longer than the distance from Skåne to Cologne?
Speaking of kill lists, we'll have to be on the look-out for a mini summer ofLiquid`TaeJaat the Season 2 Finals. With Innovation's recent weakness in TvT and obvious weakness to unpredictable/aggressive play, Taeja is in great shape to take out the last WCS champion. He played out a 5-game series against Polt, only narrowly losing out to the eventual champion. Though Taeja didn't look as good at ATC, that was a team league he ended up playing after a missed flight and a lot of stress, whereas this is the tournament TaeJa has been looking forward to for an entire season. The time is ripe for TaeJa.
That leaves us only with the last man in the group – STX_INnoVation. He has the eyes of the world on him right now – will he end the worrying trend of defeats at the hands of (albeit good) Protoss and Terran players, or will this be the group that finally ends his run as the iconic player of HotS?
Naniwa's tendency to bounce back and beat players most say he shouldn't, combined with Taeja's advantage in having been in Germany for a couple of days and having played some pretty decent TvT against Polt recently, alongside the fact that duckdeok pretty much embodies everything that Innovation loses to... If there ever was a stage so perfectly set for an upset, it has to be this one.
Wat??? I thought TL loved innovation? I mean I haven't seen a frontpage without innovation's face in couple of months. Bold predictions but I agree with them.
If there is any group that would kick INnoVation out of the seasonal finals, it would probably be this one. I just really want to see NaNiwa do well, and it's still summer so TaeJa is probably gonna rip face
The prediction is crazy, but I can very well see it coming true. Innovation and duckdeok can be both outplayed in live setting, but can NaNi handle the mental pressure, I'm not sure.
Quite the bold prediction...though I would love to see Naniwa advance :D. That's the awesome thing about this WCS Finals, everyone is so awesome that you can't really ever count anyone out.
[Edit] Also, Aligulac also favoring naniwa making it out, interesting.
On August 23 2013 03:19 ymir233 wrote: naniwat lols
Does Taeja have the mechanics to stand up to Innovation's pressure/early contain tactics though....?
People said the same about Maru.. so dont underestimate inno's oponnents.
The difference is that Maru struck first. The only game I can remember of Taeja vs Inno in PL had him struggling as Inno just marched up bio-tank into the vicinity of his natural choke. Taeja seems like the type of person who plays methodically aggressive, but doesn't press hard in either his defense or his attacks. He might have changed over the last few months, but I still have doubts...
As for the results i do believe Taeja is going to beat Innovation, but Innovation might still be just to mechanicaly skilled to get that second spot above the 2 protoss players.
naniwhaaaaaat?! ahaha stop it plz... i personaly think, he will lose against duckdeok and loose his losermatch vs taeja or bogus, just scout proper and dont let naniwa outcheese you.
The prediction is quite bold. It is not like Innovation's TvP is bad. I can see Taeja winning (even tho it would be an upset for me), but no way he loses to Naniwa or Dolan. And Naniwa beating Dolan is even more unlikely.
o.O @ this prediction. I'd love to see all the annoying Kespa-baiters get smashed again, but honestly RoBogus should destroy the protoss players easily, and probably beat Taeja (though Taeja could just as easily win) and advance in 1st.
ofc Group B is coming last. Fionn has to be pouring his heart and soul into the Polt section, now that he looks like a real contender for this tournament xD
Man just because innovation lost to parting doesn't mean his tvp is suddenly bad. He's still probably one of the best TvP players around. If Naniwa's matches against Polt are any indication, i doubt he will win. On another note: GO KESPA!!
Taeja and Naniwa advance to the Round of 8????? Wow, that's really bold. You sure there is no bias here? Naniwa lost to Duckdeok so if you want to say that Innovation doesn't make it through, Taeja and Duckdeok is much more likely than Taeja and Naniwa. Just saying lol.
Ok ok that is a very crazy prediction... Innovation will lose to both Taeja and duckdeok? While i do believe that this group is heavily dependent on who is playing well that day, i do think that Innovation has a very good chance on getting out of the group. I cant imagine that a player like Innovation not taking his recent losses and learning from them enough to continue to dominate the scene. He is a great player and almost certainly has a better chance than the odds you are giving him.
I guess time will tell, a bold prediction, and great games tomorrow will follow!
I like this prediction, I'm hoping for an upset too...
Sure, I'm a totally biased Soulkey fan but in things other than TvZ Innovation has really underwhelmed me. There are other Terrans I enjoy watching more, and I'd sooner root for Maru or Polt than Bogus.
I actually endorse this prediction, but I might trade Naniwa for duckdeok. Essentially, I just predict Innovation to not get out of the group, and Taeja coming in second.
duckdeok "embodies everything that Innovation loses to". Everything minus the skill maybe :D That's one of those articles whose TL writer wants to look all cool and edgy. Well, edgy enough, I'll give you that.
this one can be true, but you must agree that innovation is porbably on a diffrent skill level in the other match ups than taeja, so if he is smart he maybe pratcied the hell out of tvt.
On August 23 2013 04:29 ZenithM wrote: duckdeok "embodies everything that Innovation loses to". Everything minus the skill maybe :D That's one of those articles whose TL writer wants to look all cool and edgy. Well, edgy enough, I'll give you that.
Didn't Naniwa get CRUSHED by duckdeok? Why do you think he could ever take out him in two series? That's at least a 4-2 win.
Naniwa is a god of foreign starcraft and starcraft history, but he can't win any macro game vs Taeja or innovation, and allins won't versus them too. And I don't think PvP will save him here.
On August 23 2013 04:29 ZenithM wrote: duckdeok "embodies everything that Innovation loses to". Everything minus the skill maybe :D That's one of those articles whose TL writer wants to look all cool and edgy. Well, edgy enough, I'll give you that.
The author's problem is that he assumes Naniwa and Duckdeok are the level of Parting. This assumption is wrong so is the prediction. Innovation is likely to outclass all three his opponents in this group to a fair 3-0.
On August 23 2013 04:41 FatCat_13 wrote: The author's problem is that he assumes Naniwa and Duckdeok are the level of Parting. This assumption is wrong so is the prediction. Innovation is likely to outclass all three his opponents in this group to a fair 3-0.
Ballsy predictions. Zealously is known to be right with his ballsy predictions too, but I'm not sure about this exact scenario. I expect an upset of some kind, but not sure which one. :o
On August 23 2013 04:41 FatCat_13 wrote: The author's problem is that he assumes Naniwa and Duckdeok are the level of Parting. This assumption is wrong so is the prediction. Innovation is likely to outclass all three his opponents in this group to a fair 3-0.
Trust me, that's impossible
:p
It's true though that Innovation's losses usually come at the hands of people far more "raw skilled" than Naniwa and duckdeok. duckdeok will have to bring some serious camembert (the smelly kind) to take him down :D
what do you expect? he was overhyped when he was mere patch terran champ who abused hellbat to death. He's only good for TvZ and that's it. Kinda like forgg who's only good at TvT but sux at other match ups. Era of Innovation was already ended the moment hellnerf implanted. I was sick of his hellbat abuse to mech push or cheese(2 frigging patterns all the time) in tvt anyway. Right now, he's still in round of 4 but you just watch. It will be lucky for him to make it to round of 8 from next season or drop down to code A and struggle there like startale life. Winning season 1 final was too good for patch terran champ anyway. MVP is sitll the king of terran. Innovation has a lot to prove for next 3-4 seasons at least by winning at least 1 or 2 more big championships in korea to be considered world's best. It was a bad joke calling him the best in the world when he abused hellbat and cheese to win his first and will be the only championship. Good bye innovation.
On August 23 2013 03:19 ymir233 wrote: naniwat lols
Does Taeja have the mechanics to stand up to Innovation's pressure/early contain tactics though....?
Who cares ? Maru doesn't have the mechanics you're talking about.
The hell? Yes he does. It's like nobody paid attention to Maru from the ro8+ outside of the cheese. In the last game vs Bogus even then he totally outmicro'd him doing the exact same build. Taeja can stand up to him.
On August 23 2013 05:08 shin777 wrote: hellbat nerf = end of innovation
what do you expect? he was overhyped when he was mere patch terran champ who abused hellbat to death. He's only good for TvZ and that's it. Kinda like forgg who's only good at TvT but sux at other match ups. Era of Innovation was already ended the moment hellnerf implanted. I was sick of his hellbat abuse to mech push or cheese(2 frigging patterns all the time) in tvt anyway. Right now, he's still in round of 4 but you just watch. It will be lucky for him to make it to round of 8 from next season or drop down to code A and struggle there like startale life. Winning season 1 final was too good for patch terran champ anyway. MVP is sitll the king of terran. Innovation has a lot to prove for next 3-4 seasons at least by winning at least 1 or 2 more big championships in korea to be considered world's best. It was a bad joke calling him the best in the world when he abused hellbat and cheese to win his first and will be the only championship. Good bye innovation.
Innovation will stomp everyone in this group, there are no Code S Level players. Duckdeok isnt good enough for Korea, same goes for Taeja. He will stomp everyone who didnt qualify through Korea
On August 23 2013 05:15 Zeon0 wrote: dat prediction :D
Innovation will stomp everyone in this group, there are no Code S Level players. Duckdeok isnt good enough for Korea, same goes for Taeja. He will stomp everyone who didnt qualify through Korea
lol Taeja isn't code S level? He was ro16 before leaving to AM and even in the final WoL season ro4.
MVP caught flak for coming from WCS EU last season and came closer than anyone to ending the run of Bogus.
Prediction is either attentio-seeking "any press is good press", or just knee-jerk clueless reaction imo lol There is 0% chance that naniwa makes it out, and 0% chance that Innovation doesn't tbh
On August 23 2013 05:33 ffadicted wrote: Prediction is either attentio-seeking "any press is good press", or just knee-jerk clueless reaction imo lol There is 0% chance that naniwa makes it out, and 0% chance that Innovation doesn't tbh
Book it, I'm willin to bet anything
you should never be willing to bet anything on a starcraft 2 game, hell I thought there was no way maru was going to beat rain after rain went up 2-0 and now I'm stuck with this stupid signature for a few more weeks.
On August 23 2013 05:33 ffadicted wrote: Prediction is either attentio-seeking "any press is good press", or just knee-jerk clueless reaction imo lol There is 0% chance that naniwa makes it out, and 0% chance that Innovation doesn't tbh
Book it, I'm willin to bet anything
you should never be willing to bet anything on a starcraft 2 game, hell I thought there was no way maru was going to beat rain after rain went up 2-0 and now I'm stuck with this stupid signature for a few more weeks.
On August 23 2013 05:33 ffadicted wrote: Prediction is either attentio-seeking "any press is good press", or just knee-jerk clueless reaction imo lol There is 0% chance that naniwa makes it out, and 0% chance that Innovation doesn't tbh
Book it, I'm willin to bet anything
you should never be willing to bet anything on a starcraft 2 game, hell I thought there was no way maru was going to beat rain after rain went up 2-0 and now I'm stuck with this stupid signature for a few more weeks.
After that crazy Soulkey comeback you thought it was impossible for Maru to come back after he lost just 2 games?
On August 23 2013 05:33 ffadicted wrote: Prediction is either attentio-seeking "any press is good press", or just knee-jerk clueless reaction imo lol There is 0% chance that naniwa makes it out, and 0% chance that Innovation doesn't tbh
Book it, I'm willin to bet anything
you should never be willing to bet anything on a starcraft 2 game, hell I thought there was no way maru was going to beat rain after rain went up 2-0 and now I'm stuck with this stupid signature for a few more weeks.
After that crazy Soulkey comeback you thought it was impossible for Maru to come back after he lost just 2 games?
On August 23 2013 05:33 ffadicted wrote: Prediction is either attentio-seeking "any press is good press", or just knee-jerk clueless reaction imo lol There is 0% chance that naniwa makes it out, and 0% chance that Innovation doesn't tbh
Book it, I'm willin to bet anything
you should never be willing to bet anything on a starcraft 2 game, hell I thought there was no way maru was going to beat rain after rain went up 2-0 and now I'm stuck with this stupid signature for a few more weeks.
After that crazy Soulkey comeback you thought it was impossible for Maru to come back after he lost just 2 games?
yes I thought rain was too solid, I was wrong.
can we now safely say that Rain crumbles under pressure? All I remember from proleague were his ace-match losses, but I'm not sure what his actual ace match record was...
On August 23 2013 05:33 ffadicted wrote: Prediction is either attentio-seeking "any press is good press", or just knee-jerk clueless reaction imo lol There is 0% chance that naniwa makes it out, and 0% chance that Innovation doesn't tbh
Book it, I'm willin to bet anything
you should never be willing to bet anything on a starcraft 2 game, hell I thought there was no way maru was going to beat rain after rain went up 2-0 and now I'm stuck with this stupid signature for a few more weeks.
After that crazy Soulkey comeback you thought it was impossible for Maru to come back after he lost just 2 games?
yes I thought rain was too solid, I was wrong.
can we now safely say that Rain crumbles under pressure? All I remember from proleague were his ace-match losses, but I'm not sure what his actual ace match record was...
For the first 4 rounds his ace match record was really good, but he started losing them a lot near the end.
As much as I like Naniwa, I really think he's the underdog in the group. I actually think he'd have a better chance vs Innovation than vs Taeja since he's usually good at preparing specialized (sometimes cheezy) builds for his opponents, and if Innovation has a weakness, that seems to be it.
Nice write-up either way. Really bold predictions, but unless I remember incorrectly, Zealously was right about Maru vs Rain too... So yeah.
This is beyond crazy. The fact you're betting against the best player in the world whose skill honestly can't be determined by losing two matches is beyond silly. I think you are focusing on the negatives on Innovation, and focusing on the positives of Naniwa and Duck, because what you're doing is seeing past the domination Innovation had in Proleague (whose skill-ceiling is above the roof) and his domination before dropping out of WCS. That you think the player with all these accomplishments will lose out is completely beyond me. But, if you are right then I'll be the first one to admit you were right all along, but as it stands now based on that there's no way that Naniwa or Duck could make it past ro16 in WCS Korea I'd say your chances of getting this right is more than slim, hell it's minute.
No love for Duckdeok I'm upset, guys. Unfortunately, I kind of have to agree. Nevertheless, I enjoy hearing Terran tears when protoss wins, so go Duckdeok and Naniwa!
It would be a surprise if Innovation didn't win his group, much less finish last in his group.
It's funny, Innovation makes it to the Ro4 of the OSL, and qualifies for WCG by getting 3rd at WCG Korea, and these are actually considered bad results for him.
On August 23 2013 07:20 Bagration wrote: It would be a surprise if Innovation didn't win his group, much less finish last in his group.
It's funny, Innovation makes it to the Ro4 of the OSL, and qualifies for WCG by getting 3rd at WCG Korea, and these are actually considered bad results for him.
It's not about good or bad results. His every loss puts a crack in his image of untouchable blandness. We don't disbelieve his skill. Rather we hope that one day soon, INnoVation will lose his top spot to somebody who wins with their head rather than their hands. We hope that pure mechanical power is not enough to make somebody a champion, and so we latch onto anything we can to discredit the Vanilla Vanquisher, the Plastic Punisher, the Insipid Imperator, and the Sultan of Somnolence that is INnoVation.
Just because Bogus got rolled by Maru doesn't mean he's suddenly bad at TvT, the same goes for Naniwa who was rolled by finale. It's the same man who got to the GSL ro8 twice largely on the back of his PvP. When he is on, he brings some sick control and cool play. I wouldn't be surprised to see him take down finale. I would however be surprised to see him advance over the terrans in the group. We'll see. I don't have your balls, Zealously. I'd also like to see Bogus and Taeja get out of the group, now that hellbats are nerfed TvT is fun again and those are two of my favourite players
On August 23 2013 07:20 Bagration wrote: It would be a surprise if Innovation didn't win his group, much less finish last in his group.
It's funny, Innovation makes it to the Ro4 of the OSL, and qualifies for WCG by getting 3rd at WCG Korea, and these are actually considered bad results for him.
It's not about good or bad results. His every loss puts a crack in his image of untouchable blandness. We don't disbelieve his skill. Rather we hope that one day soon, INnoVation will lose his top spot to somebody who wins with their head rather than their hands. We hope that pure mechanical power is not enough to make somebody a champion, and so we latch onto anything we can to discredit the Vanilla Vanquisher, the Plastic Punisher, the Insipid Imperator, and the Sultan of Somnolence that is INnoVation.
Go non-INnoVation players!
I'm completely happy with someone winning because their mechanics are simply that much better. Unless someone comes up with some completely unknown/unique all-in, I'm far more impressed by/interested in mechanical play because it's something I don't think I could ever emulate.
But everyone does like different things. I'm hoping INnoVation at least wins this since he didn't win WCS KR Season 2.
On August 23 2013 07:20 Bagration wrote: It would be a surprise if Innovation didn't win his group, much less finish last in his group.
It's funny, Innovation makes it to the Ro4 of the OSL, and qualifies for WCG by getting 3rd at WCG Korea, and these are actually considered bad results for him.
It's not about good or bad results. His every loss puts a crack in his image of untouchable blandness. We don't disbelieve his skill. Rather we hope that one day soon, INnoVation will lose his top spot to somebody who wins with their head rather than their hands. We hope that pure mechanical power is not enough to make somebody a champion, and so we latch onto anything we can to discredit the Vanilla Vanquisher, the Plastic Punisher, the Insipid Imperator, and the Sultan of Somnolence that is INnoVation.
Go non-INnoVation players!
Haha, fair enough. But for perspective, if a non-Korean managed to make the Ro4 of the OSL and get top 3 in WCG Korea (which technically is impossible, but bear with me), people will call that player "THE GREATEST FOREIGNER EVER!".
For Innovation, that's a "slump".
I guess for me, Innovation's TvZ is just cathartic, killing Zergs left and right and dealing sweet vengeance to all the dirty Zergs who abused infestor-BL back in WoL. Die Zergs die!
On August 23 2013 07:20 Bagration wrote: It would be a surprise if Innovation didn't win his group, much less finish last in his group.
It's funny, Innovation makes it to the Ro4 of the OSL, and qualifies for WCG by getting 3rd at WCG Korea, and these are actually considered bad results for him.
It's not about good or bad results. His every loss puts a crack in his image of untouchable blandness. We don't disbelieve his skill. Rather we hope that one day soon, INnoVation will lose his top spot to somebody who wins with their head rather than their hands. We hope that pure mechanical power is not enough to make somebody a champion, and so we latch onto anything we can to discredit the Vanilla Vanquisher, the Plastic Punisher, the Insipid Imperator, and the Sultan of Somnolence that is INnoVation.
Go non-INnoVation players!
Haha, fair enough. But for perspective, if a non-Korean managed to make the Ro4 of the OSL and get top 3 in WCG Korea (which technically is impossible, but bear with me), people will call that player "THE GREATEST FOREIGNER EVER!".
For Innovation, that's a "slump".
I guess for me, Innovation's TvZ is just cathartic, killing Zergs left and right and dealing sweet vengeance to all the dirty Zergs who abused infestor-BL back in WoL. Die Zergs die!
Well, if you're talking about non-Koreans, taking an unassisted Korean flag to game 7 would qualify for a spot in the top 10. To your point though, we hold INoVation to a higher standard because he's "the best player in the world", and recently hes been looking vulnerable, so some people have started thinking maybe he doesn't really have what it takes to be a championship-caliber player for the long haul. I for one am happy about that because it just feels odd for the weakness of the uncontested best player at a strategy game to be that hes pretty average from a strategic standpoint.
On August 23 2013 07:20 Bagration wrote: It would be a surprise if Innovation didn't win his group, much less finish last in his group.
It's funny, Innovation makes it to the Ro4 of the OSL, and qualifies for WCG by getting 3rd at WCG Korea, and these are actually considered bad results for him.
It's not about good or bad results. His every loss puts a crack in his image of untouchable blandness. We don't disbelieve his skill. Rather we hope that one day soon, INnoVation will lose his top spot to somebody who wins with their head rather than their hands. We hope that pure mechanical power is not enough to make somebody a champion, and so we latch onto anything we can to discredit the Vanilla Vanquisher, the Plastic Punisher, the Insipid Imperator, and the Sultan of Somnolence that is INnoVation.
Go non-INnoVation players!
I think Innovation is the best, what could have happend to SC2, to show that this game is more about gimmic strats or play. You need someone you can admire, cause he has more skill and not better strats or gimmic play, he simply says i win vs you, not cause i play this or that, i win cause i'm better. And just to mention, this guy has more than mechanical power, i mean he is so good at adapting to situations, scouting strats and counter them it is crazy, he has a lot what Flash had in BW, but for the simple fact that he isn't a Flash or MVP people don't like him. Well haters gonna hate. Gogo Innovation show anyone, that the best player in the world should have the most skill and not the fanciest strats or play.
I just don't like INnoVation because of his TvZ tbh. I mean, mechanically he's the best player right now, but his play just seems very onedimensional. Watching a Bo7 of MVP, you knew he had a variety of strats prepared to kill the opponent, in a Bo7 of INnoVation it's maybe a proxy 2-rax + 3-4 times (depending on if the 2-rax failed or not) the same normal stuff. I think in a strategy game, the STRATEGY should play a bigger part in a players strength than it is the case with Bogus, especially in his TvZ. But whatever :-P
If Innovation doesn't come out of this group I will probably be more upset then he will. Hopefully though he will do much better then predicted here.
I don't really buy that duckdeok will take down Innovation though. Taeja might be able to but duckdeok and Naniwa will have to cheese like mad if they are up against Innovation to stand a chance as they aren't strong enough to beat him straight up and I think by now Innovation will have caught on as to how to stop them. He may be more brute force oriented then tricky in his playstyle but he didn't get to where he is now without having a very strong understanding of the game. No player is perfect but Innovation will soon start to close up those issues in his game.
TL doubting Innovation lol.. As much as I like Taeja and Naniwa, there is no way Innovation doesn't make it out of this group, much less going out last.
the best interviewee of all time ... STX SouL's INnoVation.
Brilliant.
Those are some crazy predictions. Never thought I would read that INnoVation was predicted (by this post at least) to not advance. Personally, I think it will be Taeja and INnoVation.
I can't see INnoVation or Taeja losing a series to either protoss player; I'm predicting them to come out 1st and 2nd. Considering neither player has been doing spectacularly in TvT, I predict INnoVation's mechanics will give him the edge.
If one watched Soulkey innovation for WCG 3rd place you can see his style has adjusted a lot and he is way way better at holding pressure/all-ins (yes it is TvZ but similar logic applies). I think he will be ready for this weekend
The beauty of predictions is, well, it is only a prediction. Would be fun if Zealously pulls the rabit out of the hat and gets it spot on. Just maybe we will see some emotions by INnoVation then. Haha
amazing how so many ppl are mad and clueless about bogus. Mad because he doesn't embody the typical winner and doesn't give a shit about the fans. Clueless because they think he has no strategic depth or that he played greedy in the Maru series. But when TL writers enforce a stereotype (a wrong one for lots of players...) about someone guess the ignorants are gonna stick to it.
On August 23 2013 07:20 Bagration wrote: It would be a surprise if Innovation didn't win his group, much less finish last in his group.
It's funny, Innovation makes it to the Ro4 of the OSL, and qualifies for WCG by getting 3rd at WCG Korea, and these are actually considered bad results for him.
It's not about good or bad results. His every loss puts a crack in his image of untouchable blandness. We don't disbelieve his skill. Rather we hope that one day soon, INnoVation will lose his top spot to somebody who wins with their head rather than their hands. We hope that pure mechanical power is not enough to make somebody a champion, and so we latch onto anything we can to discredit the Vanilla Vanquisher, the Plastic Punisher, the Insipid Imperator, and the Sultan of Somnolence that is INnoVation.
Go non-INnoVation players!
I think Innovation is the best, what could have happend to SC2, to show that this game is more about gimmic strats or play. You need someone you can admire, cause he has more skill and not better strats or gimmic play, he simply says i win vs you, not cause i play this or that, i win cause i'm better. And just to mention, this guy has more than mechanical power, i mean he is so good at adapting to situations, scouting strats and counter them it is crazy, he has a lot what Flash had in BW, but for the simple fact that he isn't a Flash or MVP people don't like him. Well haters gonna hate. Gogo Innovation show anyone, that the best player in the world should have the most skill and not the fanciest strats or play.
I dont think people liked mvp at first, he was a cheesing mouth breather. dude looks like bubba gump when he plays, but then the pins kept coming and the talk changed. I like innovation for his raw mechanical strength also. i hope theres only 1 finals champ this year and the robot bogus claims his dynasty, then the dissenters will have to kneel.
On August 23 2013 07:20 Bagration wrote: It would be a surprise if Innovation didn't win his group, much less finish last in his group.
It's funny, Innovation makes it to the Ro4 of the OSL, and qualifies for WCG by getting 3rd at WCG Korea, and these are actually considered bad results for him.
It's not about good or bad results. His every loss puts a crack in his image of untouchable blandness. We don't disbelieve his skill. Rather we hope that one day soon, INnoVation will lose his top spot to somebody who wins with their head rather than their hands. We hope that pure mechanical power is not enough to make somebody a champion, and so we latch onto anything we can to discredit the Vanilla Vanquisher, the Plastic Punisher, the Insipid Imperator, and the Sultan of Somnolence that is INnoVation.
Go non-INnoVation players!
I think Innovation is the best, what could have happend to SC2, to show that this game is more about gimmic strats or play. You need someone you can admire, cause he has more skill and not better strats or gimmic play, he simply says i win vs you, not cause i play this or that, i win cause i'm better. And just to mention, this guy has more than mechanical power, i mean he is so good at adapting to situations, scouting strats and counter them it is crazy, he has a lot what Flash had in BW, but for the simple fact that he isn't a Flash or MVP people don't like him. Well haters gonna hate. Gogo Innovation show anyone, that the best player in the world should have the most skill and not the fanciest strats or play.
I dont think people liked mvp at first, he was a cheesing mouth breather. dude looks like bubba gump when he plays, but then the pins kept coming and the talk changed. I like innovation for his raw mechanical strength also. i hope theres only 1 finals champ this year and the robot bogus claims his dynasty, then the dissenters will have to kneel.
???
MVP was like one of the original macro-terrans along with Jinro and a few others xD. If anything, MVP used to play more lategames than nearly any other player out there. That is, outside of TvP. He's always avoided longer games in that matchup and he became especially known as cheesy during his TvP-filled 4th championship run.
Wow. Ballsy predictions. I cannot say I disagree though. Until Innovation proves he can beat top level players that will throw a myriad of all ins at you he should be bet against.
On August 23 2013 04:41 FatCat_13 wrote: The author's problem is that he assumes Naniwa and Duckdeok are the level of Parting. This assumption is wrong so is the prediction. Innovation is likely to outclass all three his opponents in this group to a fair 3-0.
Trust me, that's impossible
what? lol
I think most people expect Innovation to go 6-0 in sets...
On August 23 2013 04:41 FatCat_13 wrote: The author's problem is that he assumes Naniwa and Duckdeok are the level of Parting. This assumption is wrong so is the prediction. Innovation is likely to outclass all three his opponents in this group to a fair 3-0.
Trust me, that's impossible
what? lol
I think most people expect Innovation to go 6-0 in sets...
It was a comment on the format. You cant go 3-0/6-0
On August 23 2013 04:41 FatCat_13 wrote: The author's problem is that he assumes Naniwa and Duckdeok are the level of Parting. This assumption is wrong so is the prediction. Innovation is likely to outclass all three his opponents in this group to a fair 3-0.
Trust me, that's impossible
what? lol
I think most people expect Innovation to go 6-0 in sets...
It was a comment on the format. You cant go 3-0/6-0
On August 23 2013 16:10 Elroi wrote: Now I'm starting to think that the TL writers are trying to do as bad predictions as they can.
Good way to draw eyeballs for new writers.
Yeah, and if he's right (it's not like it's a statistically impossible event either, right? :D), he can go all "Told you so guys, you suck at Liquibet" on us. Which reminds me... it's been so long since I haven't done my liquibets :'(
In a game where goody can beat nestea and theognis can beat jaedong(dont forget sjow vs life). I think the chances of his prediction being right is very high.
On August 23 2013 20:07 Big J wrote: Taeja beats Innovation, that much I can agree with. But both, Taeja and Innovation will beat Naniwa and duckdeok in every single game.
wow that prediction .. i dont know why but i just have a strong feeling that innovation wont make it out of this group even though he is crazy good .. and naniwa's gonna get out smiling
On August 23 2013 05:08 shin777 wrote: hellbat nerf = end of innovation
what do you expect? he was overhyped when he was mere patch terran champ who abused hellbat to death. He's only good for TvZ and that's it. Kinda like forgg who's only good at TvT but sux at other match ups. Era of Innovation was already ended the moment hellnerf implanted. I was sick of his hellbat abuse to mech push or cheese(2 frigging patterns all the time) in tvt anyway. Right now, he's still in round of 4 but you just watch. It will be lucky for him to make it to round of 8 from next season or drop down to code A and struggle there like startale life. Winning season 1 final was too good for patch terran champ anyway. MVP is sitll the king of terran. Innovation has a lot to prove for next 3-4 seasons at least by winning at least 1 or 2 more big championships in korea to be considered world's best. It was a bad joke calling him the best in the world when he abused hellbat and cheese to win his first and will be the only championship. Good bye innovation.
This prediction has one flaw though, He predicted NaNiwa to beat duckdeok in 1st match. duckdeok won. Therefore this set up a duckdeok vs TaeJa winners match, not a NaNiwa vs TaeJa match. Also NaNiwa vs INnoVation instead of duckdeok vs INnoVation.
On August 23 2013 05:08 shin777 wrote: hellbat nerf = end of innovation
what do you expect? he was overhyped when he was mere patch terran champ who abused hellbat to death. He's only good for TvZ and that's it. Kinda like forgg who's only good at TvT but sux at other match ups. Era of Innovation was already ended the moment hellnerf implanted. I was sick of his hellbat abuse to mech push or cheese(2 frigging patterns all the time) in tvt anyway. Right now, he's still in round of 4 but you just watch. It will be lucky for him to make it to round of 8 from next season or drop down to code A and struggle there like startale life. Winning season 1 final was too good for patch terran champ anyway. MVP is sitll the king of terran. Innovation has a lot to prove for next 3-4 seasons at least by winning at least 1 or 2 more big championships in korea to be considered world's best. It was a bad joke calling him the best in the world when he abused hellbat and cheese to win his first and will be the only championship. Good bye innovation.
User was temp banned for this post.
We should un-ban this guy.
innovation went to the round of 4 in his first season of code S during WoL so yeah... his claim that he's a patch terran was silly. His performance today was pretty awful but i'll wait until after code s before i decide whether or not he's washed up. He's a mechanical monster but he's going to need to re-evaluate his strategy and timings because other players have figured them out.
oh and lol @ mvp being king terran, except he doesn't even play in korea anymore...
On August 23 2013 05:08 shin777 wrote: hellbat nerf = end of innovation
what do you expect? he was overhyped when he was mere patch terran champ who abused hellbat to death. He's only good for TvZ and that's it. Kinda like forgg who's only good at TvT but sux at other match ups. Era of Innovation was already ended the moment hellnerf implanted. I was sick of his hellbat abuse to mech push or cheese(2 frigging patterns all the time) in tvt anyway. Right now, he's still in round of 4 but you just watch. It will be lucky for him to make it to round of 8 from next season or drop down to code A and struggle there like startale life. Winning season 1 final was too good for patch terran champ anyway. MVP is sitll the king of terran. Innovation has a lot to prove for next 3-4 seasons at least by winning at least 1 or 2 more big championships in korea to be considered world's best. It was a bad joke calling him the best in the world when he abused hellbat and cheese to win his first and will be the only championship. Good bye innovation.
User was temp banned for this post.
We should un-ban this guy.
innovation went to the round of 4 in his first season of code S during WoL so yeah... his claim that he's a patch terran was silly. His performance today was pretty awful but i'll wait until after code s before i decide whether or not he's washed up. He's a mechanical monster but he's going to need to re-evaluate his strategy and timings because other players have figured them out.
oh and lol @ mvp being king terran, except he doesn't even play in korea anymore...
As we saw today, you can be good without playing in Korea ^.-
On August 23 2013 05:08 shin777 wrote: hellbat nerf = end of innovation
what do you expect? he was overhyped when he was mere patch terran champ who abused hellbat to death. He's only good for TvZ and that's it. Kinda like forgg who's only good at TvT but sux at other match ups. Era of Innovation was already ended the moment hellnerf implanted. I was sick of his hellbat abuse to mech push or cheese(2 frigging patterns all the time) in tvt anyway. Right now, he's still in round of 4 but you just watch. It will be lucky for him to make it to round of 8 from next season or drop down to code A and struggle there like startale life. Winning season 1 final was too good for patch terran champ anyway. MVP is sitll the king of terran. Innovation has a lot to prove for next 3-4 seasons at least by winning at least 1 or 2 more big championships in korea to be considered world's best. It was a bad joke calling him the best in the world when he abused hellbat and cheese to win his first and will be the only championship. Good bye innovation.
User was temp banned for this post.
We should un-ban this guy.
innovation went to the round of 4 in his first season of code S during WoL so yeah... his claim that he's a patch terran was silly. His performance today was pretty awful but i'll wait until after code s before i decide whether or not he's washed up. He's a mechanical monster but he's going to need to re-evaluate his strategy and timings because other players have figured them out.
oh and lol @ mvp being king terran, except he doesn't even play in korea anymore...
As we saw today, you can be good without playing in Korea ^.-
yes you can but wcs europe/america are undeniably easier tournaments and MVP didn't even get out of the group stages last season. Shit.. this tournament is easier than code s/OSL
On August 23 2013 05:08 shin777 wrote: hellbat nerf = end of innovation
what do you expect? he was overhyped when he was mere patch terran champ who abused hellbat to death. He's only good for TvZ and that's it. Kinda like forgg who's only good at TvT but sux at other match ups. Era of Innovation was already ended the moment hellnerf implanted. I was sick of his hellbat abuse to mech push or cheese(2 frigging patterns all the time) in tvt anyway. Right now, he's still in round of 4 but you just watch. It will be lucky for him to make it to round of 8 from next season or drop down to code A and struggle there like startale life. Winning season 1 final was too good for patch terran champ anyway. MVP is sitll the king of terran. Innovation has a lot to prove for next 3-4 seasons at least by winning at least 1 or 2 more big championships in korea to be considered world's best. It was a bad joke calling him the best in the world when he abused hellbat and cheese to win his first and will be the only championship. Good bye innovation.
User was temp banned for this post.
Sure this guy was a little mean about it.. but a temp ban for stating what is pretty much exactly what happened to Innovation?
On August 23 2013 05:08 shin777 wrote: hellbat nerf = end of innovation
what do you expect? he was overhyped when he was mere patch terran champ who abused hellbat to death. He's only good for TvZ and that's it. Kinda like forgg who's only good at TvT but sux at other match ups. Era of Innovation was already ended the moment hellnerf implanted. I was sick of his hellbat abuse to mech push or cheese(2 frigging patterns all the time) in tvt anyway. Right now, he's still in round of 4 but you just watch. It will be lucky for him to make it to round of 8 from next season or drop down to code A and struggle there like startale life. Winning season 1 final was too good for patch terran champ anyway. MVP is sitll the king of terran. Innovation has a lot to prove for next 3-4 seasons at least by winning at least 1 or 2 more big championships in korea to be considered world's best. It was a bad joke calling him the best in the world when he abused hellbat and cheese to win his first and will be the only championship. Good bye innovation.
User was temp banned for this post.
Sure this guy was a little mean about it.. but a temp ban for stating what is pretty much exactly what happened to Innovation?
Drawing those conclusions based on 2 BO3's is unintelligent.
On August 23 2013 05:08 shin777 wrote: hellbat nerf = end of innovation
what do you expect? he was overhyped when he was mere patch terran champ who abused hellbat to death. He's only good for TvZ and that's it. Kinda like forgg who's only good at TvT but sux at other match ups. Era of Innovation was already ended the moment hellnerf implanted. I was sick of his hellbat abuse to mech push or cheese(2 frigging patterns all the time) in tvt anyway. Right now, he's still in round of 4 but you just watch. It will be lucky for him to make it to round of 8 from next season or drop down to code A and struggle there like startale life. Winning season 1 final was too good for patch terran champ anyway. MVP is sitll the king of terran. Innovation has a lot to prove for next 3-4 seasons at least by winning at least 1 or 2 more big championships in korea to be considered world's best. It was a bad joke calling him the best in the world when he abused hellbat and cheese to win his first and will be the only championship. Good bye innovation.
User was temp banned for this post.
Sure this guy was a little mean about it.. but a temp ban for stating what is pretty much exactly what happened to Innovation?
Drawing those conclusions based on 2 BO3's is unintelligent.
I think mods just really don't like the term patch*race*, I think I read somewhere that you're probably gonna get banned if you call someone that.
On August 23 2013 05:08 shin777 wrote: hellbat nerf = end of innovation
what do you expect? he was overhyped when he was mere patch terran champ who abused hellbat to death. He's only good for TvZ and that's it. Kinda like forgg who's only good at TvT but sux at other match ups. Era of Innovation was already ended the moment hellnerf implanted. I was sick of his hellbat abuse to mech push or cheese(2 frigging patterns all the time) in tvt anyway. Right now, he's still in round of 4 but you just watch. It will be lucky for him to make it to round of 8 from next season or drop down to code A and struggle there like startale life. Winning season 1 final was too good for patch terran champ anyway. MVP is sitll the king of terran. Innovation has a lot to prove for next 3-4 seasons at least by winning at least 1 or 2 more big championships in korea to be considered world's best. It was a bad joke calling him the best in the world when he abused hellbat and cheese to win his first and will be the only championship. Good bye innovation.
User was temp banned for this post.
Sure this guy was a little mean about it.. but a temp ban for stating what is pretty much exactly what happened to Innovation?
Drawing those conclusions based on 2 BO3's is unintelligent.
with this season's EU champ and previous season global champ going out... no way dude.
On August 23 2013 03:17 Fr0st1 wrote: Considering INnoVation is 24-6 against mostly top korean protoss players, I really don't see him losing to duckdoek or Naniwa.
On August 23 2013 03:34 StarStruck wrote: You're crazy. Bogus will be fine.
On August 23 2013 03:37 Godwrath wrote: The prediction is quite bold. It is not like Innovation's TvP is bad. I can see Taeja winning (even tho it would be an upset for me), but no way he loses to Naniwa or Dolan. And Naniwa beating Dolan is even more unlikely.
The group will go as follows
Innovation Duckdeok Taeja Naniwa.
On August 23 2013 03:40 Musicus wrote: Innovation losing to Taeja and Duckdeok. I didn't know Zealously was a crazy person.
On August 23 2013 03:43 rshawer wrote: So apparently naniwa will advance over Innovation, and Duckdeok will beat Innovation? Dang, the writers must be on some strong european mary jane
On August 23 2013 03:45 heartlxp wrote: hahahahaha, the best player in the world loses 2 series and somehow will lose to ppl who can't even cut it in KR, okay!
On August 23 2013 04:15 -niL wrote: Innovation stomp is obvious
On August 23 2013 04:23 shid0x wrote: Zealously you're drunk,go home.
On August 23 2013 04:24 ThePlagueJG wrote: If I had money I would literally give you lots of it if the prediction comes through xD
Though I think NaNiwa can win a game in the group for some extra points never count that out.
On August 23 2013 04:25 TsGBruzze wrote: WTF is wrong with the predictions?
On August 23 2013 04:35 renaissanceMAN wrote: I'm going to laugh when this is so wrong.
On August 23 2013 04:41 FatCat_13 wrote: The author's problem is that he assumes Naniwa and Duckdeok are the level of Parting. This assumption is wrong so is the prediction. Innovation is likely to outclass all three his opponents in this group to a fair 3-0.
On August 23 2013 04:44 dastrokes wrote: Yeah, not gonna happen. I can see Innovation lose to Taeja, but duckdeok?
On August 23 2013 04:45 Blargh wrote: Now, I'm a big Naniwa fan, but no.
On August 23 2013 04:50 LeviathanDK wrote: foreign biased prediction... going to love watching it fail
On August 23 2013 04:58 Ameisenmann wrote: This prediction will be wronger than wrong.
On August 23 2013 05:15 Zeon0 wrote: dat prediction :D
Innovation will stomp everyone in this group, there are no Code S Level players. Duckdeok isnt good enough for Korea, same goes for Taeja. He will stomp everyone who didnt qualify through Korea
On August 23 2013 05:40 Nirel wrote: Pffft, thats never going to happen lol. obvious bias
On August 23 2013 05:49 FanaticCZ wrote: haha...this prediction is so wrong
On August 23 2013 06:14 HandleTaken wrote: If your predictions come true I will happily eat a hat
Please make it true Naniwa...
On August 23 2013 06:20 forsooth wrote: Someone needs to take away your pitcher of foreigner kool-aid, you've clearly had too much.
On August 23 2013 06:20 lamiller wrote: What crack pipe is OP smoking?
On August 23 2013 06:21 Mairo wrote: This is beyond crazy. The fact you're betting against the best player in the world whose skill honestly can't be determined by losing two matches is beyond silly. I think you are focusing on the negatives on Innovation, and focusing on the positives of Naniwa and Duck, because what you're doing is seeing past the domination Innovation had in Proleague (whose skill-ceiling is above the roof) and his domination before dropping out of WCS. That you think the player with all these accomplishments will lose out is completely beyond me. But, if you are right then I'll be the first one to admit you were right all along, but as it stands now based on that there's no way that Naniwa or Duck could make it past ro16 in WCS Korea I'd say your chances of getting this right is more than slim, hell it's minute.
On August 23 2013 06:30 c0ldfusion wrote: Wow that's a lousy prediction.. yeah OK...
I placed my liquid bet already.
On August 23 2013 06:41 Schelim wrote: yeah no. it's gonna be Taeja in first and Innovation in second place. but i'm fine with anything as long as Naniwa doesn't advance.
On August 23 2013 06:49 Charlie.Sheen wrote: Zealously really likes to see Innovation get crushed. Purely emotional prediction, nothing logical.
On August 23 2013 07:15 skylarr wrote: who made these predictions? do you honestly think innovation is going to lose this group?
On August 23 2013 07:20 Bagration wrote: It would be a surprise if Innovation didn't win his group, much less finish last in his group.
It's funny, Innovation makes it to the Ro4 of the OSL, and qualifies for WCG by getting 3rd at WCG Korea, and these are actually considered bad results for him.
On August 23 2013 07:44 9-BiT wrote: If only there was a way to bet against your predictions, I would be a millionaire.
And, just because it's so beautifully relevant (and a bit cheeky):
On August 23 2013 05:47 Popkiller wrote: if zealously gets this one right we'll never hear the end of it.
with this season's EU champ and previous season global champ going out... no way dude.
On August 23 2013 03:17 Fr0st1 wrote: Considering INnoVation is 24-6 against mostly top korean protoss players, I really don't see him losing to duckdoek or Naniwa.
On August 23 2013 03:34 StarStruck wrote: You're crazy. Bogus will be fine.
On August 23 2013 03:37 Godwrath wrote: The prediction is quite bold. It is not like Innovation's TvP is bad. I can see Taeja winning (even tho it would be an upset for me), but no way he loses to Naniwa or Dolan. And Naniwa beating Dolan is even more unlikely.
The group will go as follows
Innovation Duckdeok Taeja Naniwa.
On August 23 2013 03:40 Musicus wrote: Innovation losing to Taeja and Duckdeok. I didn't know Zealously was a crazy person.
On August 23 2013 03:43 rshawer wrote: So apparently naniwa will advance over Innovation, and Duckdeok will beat Innovation? Dang, the writers must be on some strong european mary jane
On August 23 2013 03:45 heartlxp wrote: hahahahaha, the best player in the world loses 2 series and somehow will lose to ppl who can't even cut it in KR, okay!
On August 23 2013 04:15 -niL wrote: Innovation stomp is obvious
On August 23 2013 04:23 shid0x wrote: Zealously you're drunk,go home.
On August 23 2013 04:24 ThePlagueJG wrote: If I had money I would literally give you lots of it if the prediction comes through xD
Though I think NaNiwa can win a game in the group for some extra points never count that out.
On August 23 2013 04:25 TsGBruzze wrote: WTF is wrong with the predictions?
On August 23 2013 04:35 renaissanceMAN wrote: I'm going to laugh when this is so wrong.
On August 23 2013 04:41 FatCat_13 wrote: The author's problem is that he assumes Naniwa and Duckdeok are the level of Parting. This assumption is wrong so is the prediction. Innovation is likely to outclass all three his opponents in this group to a fair 3-0.
On August 23 2013 04:44 dastrokes wrote: Yeah, not gonna happen. I can see Innovation lose to Taeja, but duckdeok?
On August 23 2013 04:45 Blargh wrote: Now, I'm a big Naniwa fan, but no.
On August 23 2013 04:50 LeviathanDK wrote: foreign biased prediction... going to love watching it fail
On August 23 2013 04:58 Ameisenmann wrote: This prediction will be wronger than wrong.
On August 23 2013 05:15 Zeon0 wrote: dat prediction :D
Innovation will stomp everyone in this group, there are no Code S Level players. Duckdeok isnt good enough for Korea, same goes for Taeja. He will stomp everyone who didnt qualify through Korea
On August 23 2013 05:40 Nirel wrote: Pffft, thats never going to happen lol. obvious bias
On August 23 2013 05:49 FanaticCZ wrote: haha...this prediction is so wrong
On August 23 2013 06:14 HandleTaken wrote: If your predictions come true I will happily eat a hat
Please make it true Naniwa...
On August 23 2013 06:20 forsooth wrote: Someone needs to take away your pitcher of foreigner kool-aid, you've clearly had too much.
On August 23 2013 06:20 lamiller wrote: What crack pipe is OP smoking?
On August 23 2013 06:21 Mairo wrote: This is beyond crazy. The fact you're betting against the best player in the world whose skill honestly can't be determined by losing two matches is beyond silly. I think you are focusing on the negatives on Innovation, and focusing on the positives of Naniwa and Duck, because what you're doing is seeing past the domination Innovation had in Proleague (whose skill-ceiling is above the roof) and his domination before dropping out of WCS. That you think the player with all these accomplishments will lose out is completely beyond me. But, if you are right then I'll be the first one to admit you were right all along, but as it stands now based on that there's no way that Naniwa or Duck could make it past ro16 in WCS Korea I'd say your chances of getting this right is more than slim, hell it's minute.
On August 23 2013 06:30 c0ldfusion wrote: Wow that's a lousy prediction.. yeah OK...
I placed my liquid bet already.
On August 23 2013 06:41 Schelim wrote: yeah no. it's gonna be Taeja in first and Innovation in second place. but i'm fine with anything as long as Naniwa doesn't advance.
On August 23 2013 06:49 Charlie.Sheen wrote: Zealously really likes to see Innovation get crushed. Purely emotional prediction, nothing logical.
On August 23 2013 07:15 skylarr wrote: who made these predictions? do you honestly think innovation is going to lose this group?
On August 23 2013 07:20 Bagration wrote: It would be a surprise if Innovation didn't win his group, much less finish last in his group.
It's funny, Innovation makes it to the Ro4 of the OSL, and qualifies for WCG by getting 3rd at WCG Korea, and these are actually considered bad results for him.
On August 23 2013 07:44 9-BiT wrote: If only there was a way to bet against your predictions, I would be a millionaire.
And, just because it's so beautifully relevant (and a bit cheeky):
seriously that innovation prediction not sure if crazy or actually godlike if naniwa advances tomorrow (i'm like 90% sure he won't) then zealously is the one foretold, the one to bring balance back to the force, to defeat the artosis curse.
innovation usually just did mmm mine vs zerg.. i don't see how the hellbat nerf could cause such a drastic change in results. People aren't the best forever and can easily start sucking, stop being so fucking dramatic.
Naniwa did his research like any pro should. PartinG did the ground work, Naniwa saw the 'how', adapted it to his style, and executed very well. The observers and knowing Inno would duel-drop <9mins were basically what it won for him imho.
Innovation was blocked at every drop cos Naniwa saw it coming and even got lucky by wiping-out drop ships with blink. Good solid play by Naniwa, all he did was know what Inno was doing and defend then attck with very good army control and composition. Once Innovation lost those drop ships (supply) , any good RTS player knows that Innovation was behind, Naniwa pressed this advantage with good battle micro ftw.
Innovation lost due to BO imho, I think he will adapt better and be unbeatable next WCS.
On August 23 2013 05:08 shin777 wrote: hellbat nerf = end of innovation
what do you expect? he was overhyped when he was mere patch terran champ who abused hellbat to death. He's only good for TvZ and that's it. Kinda like forgg who's only good at TvT but sux at other match ups. Era of Innovation was already ended the moment hellnerf implanted. I was sick of his hellbat abuse to mech push or cheese(2 frigging patterns all the time) in tvt anyway. Right now, he's still in round of 4 but you just watch. It will be lucky for him to make it to round of 8 from next season or drop down to code A and struggle there like startale life. Winning season 1 final was too good for patch terran champ anyway. MVP is sitll the king of terran. Innovation has a lot to prove for next 3-4 seasons at least by winning at least 1 or 2 more big championships in korea to be considered world's best. It was a bad joke calling him the best in the world when he abused hellbat and cheese to win his first and will be the only championship. Good bye innovation.
User was temp banned for this post.
Sure this guy was a little mean about it.. but a temp ban for stating what is pretty much exactly what happened to Innovation?
Drawing those conclusions based on 2 BO3's is unintelligent.
I think mods just really don't like the term patch*race*, I think I read somewhere that you're probably gonna get banned if you call someone that.
But we all know bitbybit was the worst patch terran of all time... He was one before it was cool. Except instead of the patch making him good, it just made scv allins worse
On August 24 2013 15:40 p14c wrote: HOTS is a Rock-Paper-Scissor game type. We will not have dominant players when build orders are more important than skill.
so you mean me, a diamond kr player, if i flip coins and get heads 100 times in a row i'll be a WCS champion?
sick, i'll work on my coin micro, because apparently thats all it takes.
On August 23 2013 05:08 shin777 wrote: hellbat nerf = end of innovation
what do you expect? he was overhyped when he was mere patch terran champ who abused hellbat to death. He's only good for TvZ and that's it. Kinda like forgg who's only good at TvT but sux at other match ups. Era of Innovation was already ended the moment hellnerf implanted. I was sick of his hellbat abuse to mech push or cheese(2 frigging patterns all the time) in tvt anyway. Right now, he's still in round of 4 but you just watch. It will be lucky for him to make it to round of 8 from next season or drop down to code A and struggle there like startale life. Winning season 1 final was too good for patch terran champ anyway. MVP is sitll the king of terran. Innovation has a lot to prove for next 3-4 seasons at least by winning at least 1 or 2 more big championships in korea to be considered world's best. It was a bad joke calling him the best in the world when he abused hellbat and cheese to win his first and will be the only championship. Good bye innovation.
User was temp banned for this post.
Sure this guy was a little mean about it.. but a temp ban for stating what is pretty much exactly what happened to Innovation?
Seems like biased ban from the distance... unless this is true:
On August 24 2013 07:55 HolyArrow wrote: I think mods just really don't like the term patch*race*, I think I read somewhere that you're probably gonna get banned if you call someone that.
Anyway, I think as well Innovation will end on Code A struggling the day Widow Mine get nerfed and Hellbats can't be healed, I still feel it nonsense and boring
On August 23 2013 05:08 shin777 wrote: hellbat nerf = end of innovation
what do you expect? he was overhyped when he was mere patch terran champ who abused hellbat to death. He's only good for TvZ and that's it. Kinda like forgg who's only good at TvT but sux at other match ups. Era of Innovation was already ended the moment hellnerf implanted. I was sick of his hellbat abuse to mech push or cheese(2 frigging patterns all the time) in tvt anyway. Right now, he's still in round of 4 but you just watch. It will be lucky for him to make it to round of 8 from next season or drop down to code A and struggle there like startale life. Winning season 1 final was too good for patch terran champ anyway. MVP is sitll the king of terran. Innovation has a lot to prove for next 3-4 seasons at least by winning at least 1 or 2 more big championships in korea to be considered world's best. It was a bad joke calling him the best in the world when he abused hellbat and cheese to win his first and will be the only championship. Good bye innovation.
User was temp banned for this post.
Why was this guy banned? Seems like mods on here are getting bored these days.
On August 23 2013 05:08 shin777 wrote: hellbat nerf = end of innovation
what do you expect? he was overhyped when he was mere patch terran champ who abused hellbat to death. He's only good for TvZ and that's it. Kinda like forgg who's only good at TvT but sux at other match ups. Era of Innovation was already ended the moment hellnerf implanted. I was sick of his hellbat abuse to mech push or cheese(2 frigging patterns all the time) in tvt anyway. Right now, he's still in round of 4 but you just watch. It will be lucky for him to make it to round of 8 from next season or drop down to code A and struggle there like startale life. Winning season 1 final was too good for patch terran champ anyway. MVP is sitll the king of terran. Innovation has a lot to prove for next 3-4 seasons at least by winning at least 1 or 2 more big championships in korea to be considered world's best. It was a bad joke calling him the best in the world when he abused hellbat and cheese to win his first and will be the only championship. Good bye innovation.
User was temp banned for this post.
Why was this guy banned? Seems like mods on here are getting bored these days.
Guys that get banned usually have received several warnings before their ban or straight up break the tl rules.
I read somewhere but I can't remember that Innovation admitted that the hellbat nerf affected his drop. BUT I do believe that Innovation is well capable of still doing great ! The future will decide. I will cheer for him
On August 23 2013 05:08 shin777 wrote: hellbat nerf = end of innovation
what do you expect? he was overhyped when he was mere patch terran champ who abused hellbat to death. He's only good for TvZ and that's it. Kinda like forgg who's only good at TvT but sux at other match ups. Era of Innovation was already ended the moment hellnerf implanted. I was sick of his hellbat abuse to mech push or cheese(2 frigging patterns all the time) in tvt anyway. Right now, he's still in round of 4 but you just watch. It will be lucky for him to make it to round of 8 from next season or drop down to code A and struggle there like startale life. Winning season 1 final was too good for patch terran champ anyway. MVP is sitll the king of terran. Innovation has a lot to prove for next 3-4 seasons at least by winning at least 1 or 2 more big championships in korea to be considered world's best. It was a bad joke calling him the best in the world when he abused hellbat and cheese to win his first and will be the only championship. Good bye innovation.
User was temp banned for this post.
Why was this guy banned? Seems like mods on here are getting bored these days.
Guys that get banned usually have received several warnings before their ban or straight up break the tl rules.
On August 23 2013 05:08 shin777 wrote: hellbat nerf = end of innovation
what do you expect? he was overhyped when he was mere patch terran champ who abused hellbat to death. He's only good for TvZ and that's it. Kinda like forgg who's only good at TvT but sux at other match ups. Era of Innovation was already ended the moment hellnerf implanted. I was sick of his hellbat abuse to mech push or cheese(2 frigging patterns all the time) in tvt anyway. Right now, he's still in round of 4 but you just watch. It will be lucky for him to make it to round of 8 from next season or drop down to code A and struggle there like startale life. Winning season 1 final was too good for patch terran champ anyway. MVP is sitll the king of terran. Innovation has a lot to prove for next 3-4 seasons at least by winning at least 1 or 2 more big championships in korea to be considered world's best. It was a bad joke calling him the best in the world when he abused hellbat and cheese to win his first and will be the only championship. Good bye innovation.
User was temp banned for this post.
Why was this guy banned? Seems like mods on here are getting bored these days.
He was pretty stupid and said stupid things it seems.
On August 27 2013 02:01 9-BiT wrote: He was an above average player who knew how to utilize hellbats. He will fade into mediocrity, in my opinion.
Care to explain this and this, then? And this or this? Hellbats all the way, right?
It's funny when people say that because Bogus was actually very late to the hellbat punch so to speak and he was still very effective, but people seem to forget that.
I don't know which prediction is more bold. The idea of Maru not advancing out of groups (something I figured) or Bogus having a similar fate. Any given Sunday boys.
On August 27 2013 02:01 9-BiT wrote: He was an above average player who knew how to utilize hellbats. He will fade into mediocrity, in my opinion.
Technically everything you said is correct.
1. Innovation is definitely above average
2. Innovation definitely knew how to use hellbats
3. Everyone fades into mediocrity. Boxer, Yellow, Reach, Nada, oov, July, savoir, Bisu, etc. No one is dominant forever, and even legends retire and hang up their mouses, to make way for the new generation of players. The only question is how long one can stay relevant. I think Innovation is far from becoming irrelevant.
On August 23 2013 05:08 shin777 wrote: hellbat nerf = end of innovation
what do you expect? he was overhyped when he was mere patch terran champ who abused hellbat to death. He's only good for TvZ and that's it. Kinda like forgg who's only good at TvT but sux at other match ups. Era of Innovation was already ended the moment hellnerf implanted. I was sick of his hellbat abuse to mech push or cheese(2 frigging patterns all the time) in tvt anyway. Right now, he's still in round of 4 but you just watch. It will be lucky for him to make it to round of 8 from next season or drop down to code A and struggle there like startale life. Winning season 1 final was too good for patch terran champ anyway. MVP is sitll the king of terran. Innovation has a lot to prove for next 3-4 seasons at least by winning at least 1 or 2 more big championships in korea to be considered world's best. It was a bad joke calling him the best in the world when he abused hellbat and cheese to win his first and will be the only championship. Good bye innovation.
User was temp banned for this post.
Why was this guy banned? Seems like mods on here are getting bored these days.
He was pretty stupid and said stupid things it seems.
EPT
INnoVation. At the end of a stellar regular season, he led his team to their first ever Proleague championship by playing nothing short of perfect in playoffs. He held the WCS Season 1 title, and looked like a peerless champion above all others.
PartinG in WCG Korea. TaeJa, always the honest and pragmatic player, gave a telling answer when asked how he felt about being matched up against INnoVation for his first match: "Since we're both doing badly in TvT lately, I'm not worried." 
NesTea brain to be a champion, but there's no doubting that it would help. If Innovation can find the cunning to pair with his brute force, then he could establish a dynasty. But from what we've seen so far, it doesn't look like he will.
Duckdeok, 
NaNiwa
.
![[image loading]](http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/29800000/It-s-over-9000-its-over-9000-29849302-496-370.jpg)
INnoVation.
