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Apart from all the obvious mismanagement of the esports scene from Blizzard, a massive issue for SC2 is very very poor game design.
- In Protoss matchups there are hardly any back and forth action. It's you win easily or lose easily.
- Most battles are just a big attack move battle that is over in 5 seconds. Typical SC2 game is nothing happens for 20 mins and then one attack move battle and the game is over. SC2 needs to dumb down the AI to let players differentiate themselves through micro.
- There is hardly any little skirmishes going around the map like in BW. Things like forcefield and concussive shells make poking around non viable because you will lose half your army.
- The game is too coin flippy, too many hard counters make build build order wins too common.
- A major root cause of all this is warp gate is so fundamentally flawed.
- Don't get me started on how bad and anti-social battle.net is
On a positive note, Terran vs Zerg is actually fun to watch, requires alot of micro and is very action packed (even though it is currently imbalanced).
I personally don't know how David Kim is still in a job because imo he is very very incompetent. At the end of the day if SC2 is not fun to watch then nothing will bring back the audience.
My message to Blizzard is to fix up the game design, in particularly Protoss a warp gate. Stop looking at balance numbers and look at how the games actually play out. Do qualitative analysis over quantitative ones because right now SC2 is not fun to watch at all.
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On August 11 2013 13:40 Highways wrote:
Apart from all the obvious mismanagement of the esports scene from Blizzard, a massive issue for SC2 is very very poor game design.
- In Protoss matchups there are hardly any back and forth action. It's you win easily or lose easily.
- Most battles are just a big attack move battle that is over in 5 seconds. Typical SC2 game is nothing happens for 20 mins and then one attack move battle and the game is over. SC2 needs to dumb down the AI to let players differentiate themselves through micro.
- There is hardly any little skirmishes going around the map like in BW. Things like forcefield and concussive shells make poking around non viable because you will lose half your army.
- The game is too coin flippy, too many hard counters make build build order wins too common.
- A major root cause of all this is warp gate is so fundamentally flawed.
- Don't get me started on how bad and anti-social battle.net is
On a positive note, Terran vs Zerg is actually fun to watch, requires alot of micro and is very action packed (even though it is currently imbalanced).
I personally don't know how David Kim is still in a job because imo he is very very incompetent. At the end of the day if SC2 is not fun to watch then nothing will bring back the audience.
My message to Blizzard is to fix up the game design, in particularly Protoss a warp gate. Stop looking at balance numbers and look at how the games actually play out. Do qualitative analysis over quantitative ones because right now SC2 is not fun to watch at all.
nobody is going to touch the subject of warp gate. just messing around with it will break the whole game. They should of fixed that during wol but they did not. you would have to wait for starcraft 3 for this change.
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On August 11 2013 13:39 julianto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 13:12 Rabiator wrote:
If you cant afford a one-time-fee you shouldnt be playing computer games. It's not that they can't afford it. It's that it's a turn-off. I know a few friends (in their 20's) who only play free games. There are so many out there.
No game is truly free ... you just have to know where the money comes from and basically all "free to play" games have optional ways to buy stuff which LoL does have too. There is nothing which could be marketed in SC2 however, because alternate skins on such tiny units are basically useless. So we are back to "pay a one-time-fee".
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On August 11 2013 14:17 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 13:39 julianto wrote:On August 11 2013 13:12 Rabiator wrote:
If you cant afford a one-time-fee you shouldnt be playing computer games. It's not that they can't afford it. It's that it's a turn-off. I know a few friends (in their 20's) who only play free games. There are so many out there. No game is truly free ... you just have to know where the money comes from and basically all "free to play" games have optional ways to buy stuff which LoL does have too. There is nothing which could be marketed in SC2 however, because alternate skins on such tiny units are basically useless. So we are back to "pay a one-time-fee".
By free, he means piracy.
This gaming generation has this idea that if all games were free/pirated that developers would still magically make money.
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On August 11 2013 14:17 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 13:39 julianto wrote:On August 11 2013 13:12 Rabiator wrote:
If you cant afford a one-time-fee you shouldnt be playing computer games. It's not that they can't afford it. It's that it's a turn-off. I know a few friends (in their 20's) who only play free games. There are so many out there. No game is truly free ... you just have to know where the money comes from and basically all "free to play" games have optional ways to buy stuff which LoL does have too. There is nothing which could be marketed in SC2 however, because alternate skins on such tiny units are basically useless. So we are back to "pay a one-time-fee".
dota 2 is truly free. The only things you can buy are cosmetics and doesn't change the game at all. Dota 2 is truly, the best game. Valve is the best company. Gabe Newell, our lord and saviour. Praise our lord and saviour, Gabe Newell!!
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On August 11 2013 13:45 askmc70 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 13:40 Highways wrote:
Apart from all the obvious mismanagement of the esports scene from Blizzard, a massive issue for SC2 is very very poor game design.
- In Protoss matchups there are hardly any back and forth action. It's you win easily or lose easily.
- Most battles are just a big attack move battle that is over in 5 seconds. Typical SC2 game is nothing happens for 20 mins and then one attack move battle and the game is over. SC2 needs to dumb down the AI to let players differentiate themselves through micro.
- There is hardly any little skirmishes going around the map like in BW. Things like forcefield and concussive shells make poking around non viable because you will lose half your army.
- The game is too coin flippy, too many hard counters make build build order wins too common.
- A major root cause of all this is warp gate is so fundamentally flawed.
- Don't get me started on how bad and anti-social battle.net is
On a positive note, Terran vs Zerg is actually fun to watch, requires alot of micro and is very action packed (even though it is currently imbalanced).
I personally don't know how David Kim is still in a job because imo he is very very incompetent. At the end of the day if SC2 is not fun to watch then nothing will bring back the audience.
My message to Blizzard is to fix up the game design, in particularly Protoss a warp gate. Stop looking at balance numbers and look at how the games actually play out. Do qualitative analysis over quantitative ones because right now SC2 is not fun to watch at all. nobody is going to touch the subject of warp gate. just messing around with it will break the whole game. They should of fixed that during wol but they did not. you would have to wait for starcraft 3 for this change.
I'm sure a large expansion (LotV) is eligible for a huge change in game mechanics, such as warp gates, economy, etc. Blizzard changed WC3 so much in TFT, HotS is just a big patch in comparison.
Anyway, has amateur tournaments been touched yet? After reading the comments in the recent Redbull thread, no one is interested in low level tournaments. Well, they were speaking of NA tournaments specifically, but that still seem to reflect how less people seem to care about skill level lower than a Code B Korean. There needs to be some kind of event that people who want to be competitive can look forward to and train for before they try and hit it big.
On August 11 2013 17:28 gosublade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 14:17 Rabiator wrote:On August 11 2013 13:39 julianto wrote:On August 11 2013 13:12 Rabiator wrote:
If you cant afford a one-time-fee you shouldnt be playing computer games. It's not that they can't afford it. It's that it's a turn-off. I know a few friends (in their 20's) who only play free games. There are so many out there. No game is truly free ... you just have to know where the money comes from and basically all "free to play" games have optional ways to buy stuff which LoL does have too. There is nothing which could be marketed in SC2 however, because alternate skins on such tiny units are basically useless. So we are back to "pay a one-time-fee". dota 2 is truly free. The only things you can buy are cosmetics and doesn't change the game at all. Dota 2 is truly, the best game. Valve is the best company. Gabe Newell, our lord and saviour. Praise our lord and saviour, Gabe Newell!!
Well, like he said, it's useless to having a bunch of varied skins for such small units. Maybe HUD skins? If we can buy in-game tickets to watch tournaments using the SC2 client, that would be perfect.
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You cant force viewers on a game that isnt great in the first place. Sc2 is good, but its not great. Like it needs to be if it wants any more viewers.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
Here's my opinion on Starcraft 2.
First of all, we all know that the game itself isn't "noob-friendly". It requires very good mechanics, knowledge and every Starcraft game is you putting 100% into it. Unless you go with matchmaking system and it puts you up against a Bronze league player, in which case, you stomp them, or have some fun with them.
The underlying problem is the problem of any Blizzard game, you have to know the game to understand what is being presented to you. What I mean by that is that all viewers (well, majority of them) want entertainment. And if you do not understand Starcraft II, you will get no entertainment at all. I realized this when I was watching a random SC2 tournament with my flatmate who doesn't play SC2. He found it dull and boring and didn't understand what was all the fuss about. When I tried to explain what Stephano did in that game, he couldn't understand. I, personally, get entertainment from very good Zergling control onto whatever levels beyond that, and we all know Stephano's ling control is one of the best.
Many say that SC2 is a boring game due to its design:
- macro up
- get an army
- stomp or be stomped
And it takes about 10 minutes to get to that point. Again, I find it entertaining that players hold off the old standard harassment with Marines/Hellions/Banshees with just a couple of Queens and Zerglings WHILE macroing up accordingly behind that. That's because I could never macro up accordingly behind it (lost way too many games because I queued up a bunch of Drones, thinking I was safe).
To argument that point, LoL isn't a fun game to watch either. "Macro" perspective? You see if the other team has 3 towers down and the other team has none, it's just a boring stompfest. Very rarely does LoL have major comebacks. "Combat" system? The fight is over faster than it is in SC2. Also, High Diamond Zerg here and Platinum Support in LoL, so I kinda got the grasp of both games.
The only real problem for me, as a player, is that I cannot play SC2 with my friends. Just yesterday, I told them on skype "man, wish you all played SC2", and my other friend said "I do, but you are better than me". And he doesn't have the patience to learn SC2 and I just realized, I cannot play this game with my friends. If I'm better than my friends, there's no point in playing SC2 unless they want me to teach them how to play.
Overall, SC2 cannot grow because it is not noob-friendly. It cannot expand to masses who just like to press buttons and kill stuff. And, quite frankly, that's why we enjoy this game, because it is too goddamn hard.
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It doesn't matter if the game is balanced, hard or easy to play, or even nice to watch.
What matters is people need to play the game and keep on playing the game.
The discussion needs to be about how do we make SC2 more popular because everything else falls into place depending on that.
Find a way to increase interest in the game. It might be hard to renew interest until LotV. Releasing Blizzard All-stars and requiring SC2 / HotS / LotV to play it might help a lot.
Make the game free to play. Find a way to make money off micro transactions. Increase the user-base as much as you can.
Keep the user-base. For God's sake, fix Bnet 0.2 so it's not a ghost town and return it to being the social networking experience that Bnet 1.0 was. Mark Zuckerberg said it best when detailing the importance of always being online and always being connected. If you log online and see your friends online, that is more incentive for you to stay online, and as long as the user is online, that is a chance he will play a game or bring more people online. It is a snowball you need to get rolling.
Do more for the casual gaming experience. Adding portraits and the leveling system was good. I knew a lot of people who kept playing as long as they did just to level up. Add more. Promote good custom games in a better way. I knew a lot of people who kept playing just for the custom games. Do more for team-games. Introduce new maps more frequently, optimize the game's programing so it's not such a piss-poor excuse for programing and aim to let more people with average computers play 3v3 and 4v4.
Add a reputation system so that good mannered players play other good mannered players and BM players get weeded out.
Make the game more fun to play and more addicting. Balance is not the first concern, it is the last concern. Just like in BW, if there are enough people playing the game, they might balance it for you. There are a lot of games that were never designed or intended to be competitive material and yet because of their popularity, they became a competitive game. Whenever you change anything, the first question you need to ask is does this make the game more fun? It's obvious with HotS's design, that question was not a high priority.
Once more people are playing / interested in the game, you can then start worrying about everything else.
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Atm local scenes in europe and america are beeing hamperd in their growth by former korean top players taking nearly all the top spots in wcs recently. I think manny fans like to see local heros and not neccesarely the highest lvl of play but as it is now local heros only have a verry small change to make meaningfull results.
So:make a sc world championship for national teams.
Each nation has a team of 2 (maybe 3) players wich can be decided upon in a national championship, and then thoose teams of 2 players play first for a regional championship (eg, europe, the whole of north and south america, korea, and south east pacific region). and then after that for a world championship.
Each player plays both the players of the other team wich gives 4 mini matches per team match, and then the result can be a draw for 1 point, a win for 2 points or a loss for 0 points, these teams play in groups of 4 countrys and then the top 2 goes into a knockout phase to determine the final winner, much like the world and european football championships are set up. I think such a championship can apeal to much more fans then the tournaments wich are run now.
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just an idea, do you not think sc2 is dying because you are not allowed to play your own game? Please hear me out and have a think about this before you go all fucking crazy.
Im a platinum player so of course i have no opinion on the game and the way it feels to me. Am i rite? i cant talk about balance, i cant talk about anything to do with the game at all as im just a scrub player who cannot simply have an opinion on it. Do you not think this is the reason the MAJORITY of players get tired of playing? They get to a rut in their play and ask for advice on how to beat it and all they get told is build more drones inject or whatever race macro mechanics you have to do? We lose players down to this. We all love Sc2 we all want to progress and some of us have a real desire to get to the masters, GM level. Ive been told on this site loads of time to stfu, ur too low to understand. So playing sc2 well gives you a special token in life? I dont understand what? everything? . . or just sc2? We know how the game feels to us, but the higher level player will just take a higher ground and claim all kinds of other shit . .when all we are doing is playing a game. It deters those new players and when they get this shit when they probably are asking for a legitimate thing to just ease their improvement road. do you get me with this i could talk about every last little nit pick here but over the last 10 years of me playing sc2 ive never felt so frustrated when people say . .well ur plat so inject, more drones, whatever. this of course is the problem but sometimes we just need to vent and what you get back is total negativity. when did anyone ever mention the things you did well.
EG, "welcome to the community statix, i see and understand what you are going through, you played well and i think you could have held the game better if instead of building these units, you built some more drones, it makes no sense at all does it? you have no units, but look at what you see, he just threw down a load of structures so he cant be building any units either, always try and send in those ovies just to popke to see if he is making more workers, buildings or balling up an army, you may not get the information all the time but if you work at it youll get a much better game sense over time. if you see buildings and upgrades going sat your bases, else build those units is a good place to start.Your game was good but remember all the pros practice the crap out of injecting and spending their money, you did well but if you ever see your money go over 500 just whack a hatch down as a reminder to not let it do it. Keep it up, add me as a friend and we can play together, glhf" - GM statix
Ive watched and played SC2 all my life(im 32) and tuned into thousands of games and i can honestly say, ive never been hyped to see many of them (i gotta bring out the idra fan boy in me, i always loved and was excited to see him play, especially when he lost his form and i wanted to see him get back up there) this is in disguise point two. I Dont think enough is done to build storylines in sc2 and noone seems to have any charisma. I literally am just watching a race vs race game. I think this is what lets the whole viewing of sc2 down. i mean back in the 2010-11, its was OMG Idra, Nestea, DRG, Hero, Teaja, people tuned in. i remember an MLG where they made you pay and they put idra on in the first free to watch game and it hit near 100k views! This is the shit we are now missing, love to hate characters but we know whay we love to hate them. Example, yesterday i watched maru and rain . . . so what i know they are both good players on the best teams in the world . . .did i care? no. Why? Becuase after thei game results over the last months i know nothing about them, and what can you say about them? Again let me remind you think before you go all crazy and look at the last 20 games you have seen. did you really watch them start to finish? I *watched* both the WCS AM and EU, but i was on the phone playing my own games of sc2 and just waiting for that engagement which would tip the game or set it up for a longer one. what did you know about the players, how interesting are they becuase im just a normal guy and i cant find any interesting things to say about anyone anymore, i just know that . .ye they are good theyve won or rounded top 8 in x tournie.
I dont find sc2 all that great to watch really. most of the time its just a balled up army and send it in. watching the hasuobs games yesterday actually made me drop what i was doing. But was it the game or something else? Yes the Casting made that game. They really did a good job of building up the drama of the build, i love apollo with his fake(or not... jk apollo i love ur casting when ur not slipping up with goof comments) drama voice of the builds we are seeing and what they may do with what they are doing.
My 3rd point now, Casting. Whats a real let down is casting. there are few i just cant stand when they open their mouths as what they say is just filler the entire game. Apollo, idra, artosis, and a few others explain the game and never seem to call the early gg for any of the players (maybe artosis does a little) they really need to explain whats happening, why they are getting beat and what they could possibly do to get out of it even though we all know its GG, build the drama, build the excitement. This doesnt happen and its a shame. when you put a bunch of play by play casters together and casters who are so self aware it gets annoying, TotalBiscuit, day9(yes Day9 hes knowledgeable no doubt but i find every word out of his mouth is trying to make you laugh and rally with him somehow), husky. Now of course this is how i feel and many, WAY MORE than not love these people but in many games its all "im so super excited for this match, talk really fast, over comment on something when something else is happening which is the real threat. These people dont see it unless the observers are making them see it. it takes it away from the whole thing to hear just random goof shite talk and obvious crap like . . and he puts up 3 more rax. . . Well why did he do that? What can we expect to see with this, these are pro players, he didnt just build 3 random rax? the problem is most of the casters dont understand whats going on. If this is improved then the story and excitement can be built.
going back to point one and to finish up why sc2 declines over time because ive gone way overboard here. the game is now defined by korean meta. this is how you HAVE to play. So what we get is the same game over and over and over again at the pro level. Serious look at the next 10 games you see. Its going to be one of 3 builds from each race against their respected opps and then most likely will come down to one big ball engagement. It isnt fun to watch. as much as i love starcraft and will never stop playing and supporting it, its boring really. how can i love it so much if i feel its boring? Its just the way it is. I get streams up at friends houses who dont play it and they say how boring it looks and how geeky and awkward some of the casting sounds. these are the viewers starcraft is hoping to attract and they are not coming becuase of simple reasons. Its boring and sounds uncool. We as a community however dont see it like that as we love the game and the people in it, all of it. as much as i dont like a lot of the casters they need to be there to create that love/hate thing.
the numbers for sc2 have to be lower than the other esport games . . the other games are free, they are more accessible to more people. what 8 - 20 year old living at home with no income wont download a great game which errrr . . MILLIONS of players play as well? Of course when they learn the game and realise there is a scene behind it . . they tune in, but like i said above are they really watching it . . doesnt matter they are now in that community. sc2 is 30 quid . . which is not a lot of money but its still 30 quid that little kid and his 10 mates dont have . . but they have the internet . . .they can get dota and lol for free and all play together with a game which after the knowledge base of the characters i suppose . . is 5 buttons... its just very simple and you are playing right away. My gf hates sc2, she hates me now becuase of sc2, i let her play now and again to see . . shes seen me play 10s of thousands of games and yes she cant play it AT ALL. however she got maxed warlock and mass respect from a massive guild in wow and was like a key raid player . . i didnt even fucking know how well she was respected where i was bounding from guild to guild not doing much and basically pugging everything . . i was jealous as fuck! (then i tried to join her guild and got called a noob cos my gear score was too low . . holy shit wet fish in the face . . my gf didnt know you could equip a wand for 65 levels . . no fucking joke!) Point here. Easy to play, easy to do, easy to feel acomplishment. Starcaft doesnt have it.
balance, now remember i have no opinion! You cant do it. Woah i fucking said it. how do you balance a game like this? do one thing it effects another do another it does something else. what i find difficult, my mate doesnt, so if i was to balance the game for me . .remove the terran race. i cant beat 50:50 - games fucked rite? No. then comes the other side to the cheese, a phrase noone used ever . . . dont balance and change shit it goes stale and people leave becuase of that. so you have people leacving cos they cant win or frustrated and then you have people leaving as it stays the same . . .You cant balance sc2. Odd statement makes no sense. we can only get to an acceptable level. Everyone hating david kim is odd to me. Who the fuck else is there to do the balance task? us? Me? you? wait . . i cant deal with widow mines . .so fuck it remove them? You can deal with widow mines but not with mass thor, leave mines nerf thor, terran player loves the mines but hates the fact he loses all this shit and cant replace fast enough . . increase speed of all units from structs . . holy shit what would ANY of those things do to the game . . the game cant be balanced. we just have to accept a state . . do you get me? i dont even get myself here cos im plat . . .i have no opinion on the balance and yes i dont care cos ill play every game i queue for.
EDIT, just read a few posts above . . holy shit youve said most of this already, i agree with everyone above and made http://imgur.com/fxGIsHtthis
what the fuck have i just wrote
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On August 11 2013 17:28 gosublade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2013 14:17 Rabiator wrote:On August 11 2013 13:39 julianto wrote:On August 11 2013 13:12 Rabiator wrote:
If you cant afford a one-time-fee you shouldnt be playing computer games. It's not that they can't afford it. It's that it's a turn-off. I know a few friends (in their 20's) who only play free games. There are so many out there. No game is truly free ... you just have to know where the money comes from and basically all "free to play" games have optional ways to buy stuff which LoL does have too. There is nothing which could be marketed in SC2 however, because alternate skins on such tiny units are basically useless. So we are back to "pay a one-time-fee". dota 2 is truly free. The only things you can buy are cosmetics and doesn't change the game at all. Dota 2 is truly, the best game. Valve is the best company. Gabe Newell, our lord and saviour. Praise our lord and saviour, Gabe Newell!!
I disagree, he's a colossal cunt who won't work on half life 3, because a wanker like him only cares about making money as he does with games like dota and cs:go.
User was temp banned for this post.
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My question is certainly stupid.
I was struggling through all the random hate that WCS gets because this tournament isn't region locked. And someone mentioned that we already have a "region locked" tournament, WCG.
Why are WCG qualifiers getting so little hype? It seems they do a lot of what people expect WCS to do. If these events were hyped and bigger, couldn't we keep WCS in the same state and get on with it?
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On August 12 2013 01:20 Nebuchad wrote:
My question is certainly stupid.
I was struggling through all the random hate that WCS gets because this tournament isn't region locked. And someone mentioned that we already have a "region locked" tournament, WCG.
Why are WCG qualifiers getting so little hype? It seems they do a lot of what people expect WCS to do. If these events were hyped and bigger, couldn't we keep WCS in the same state and get on with it?
The same people also whine about lower level of skill.
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i hope this doesn't become another argument over the current WCS non-region locked format T_T
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On August 12 2013 01:20 Nebuchad wrote:
My question is certainly stupid.
I was struggling through all the random hate that WCS gets because this tournament isn't region locked. And someone mentioned that we already have a "region locked" tournament, WCG.
Why are WCG qualifiers getting so little hype? It seems they do a lot of what people expect WCS to do. If these events were hyped and bigger, couldn't we keep WCS in the same state and get on with it?
WCG is a great tournament imho. You can to see players from every country, only 3 Koreans each time, and a fun atmosphere.
But as stated before me, the people complaining about WCS being too Korean complain that WCG isn't Korean enough.
I personally find it great that a player from India, South Africa, or any lesser known esport country can play in WCG. It doesnt matter if he loses all his games, he brings awareness to his country, his scene. This is true esport.
It s the same in football (soccer). Yes Barcelona is great and all but the World Cup is the most beautiful of every competition, because you can see epic games, and teams from every part of the world
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On August 12 2013 01:55 WGT-Baal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 01:20 Nebuchad wrote:
My question is certainly stupid.
I was struggling through all the random hate that WCS gets because this tournament isn't region locked. And someone mentioned that we already have a "region locked" tournament, WCG.
Why are WCG qualifiers getting so little hype? It seems they do a lot of what people expect WCS to do. If these events were hyped and bigger, couldn't we keep WCS in the same state and get on with it? WCG is a great tournament imho. You can to see players from every country, only 3 Koreans each time, and a fun atmosphere. But as stated before me, the people complaining about WCS being too Korean complain that WCG isn't Korean enough. I personally find it great that a player from India, South Africa, or any lesser known esport country can play in WCG. It doesnt matter if he loses all his games, he brings awareness to his country, his scene. This is true esport. It s the same in football (soccer). Yes Barcelona is great and all but the World Cup is the most beautiful of every competition, because you can see epic games, and teams from every part of the world
#2.
Sadly WCG is not as good as it was around 2004 anymore.
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I didnt want to start a thread about this since I feel this thread is kinda on the subject Im thinking of:
Here's the scenario: I've been playing SC2 for a few weeks now over the summer with my gf, she got the starter edition so she's stuck with T. We do have tons of fun.. but we are silver 2v2 and often, pretty much most games, get CRUSHED unless we rush. What I feel is that we do good, but she doesn't really want to learn the game, so we get stuck on 2 bases and just wait for them to attack, she says that she think its so much fun to play. But is it really when you always loose? how do I get her to want to learn more and watch more of it? I'm afraid that she one day will stop just since its too much to learn and she wants a fun time.
My view of SC2s problem: as many have stated before, I think the problem for many is the steep learning curve for the game, you HAVE to know what you need to do all the time, you must know timings, counters and all that stuff, which means that you must always scout, be aggressive and poke. People don't have the time, or feel that they want to learn everything about the game, since its too much too fast to take in, its hard to just play SC2 for a relaxed fun evening. Whilst in LOL or dota you can pick it up for a day, just lolz around and win on poking in over and over.. you kinda get rewarded quickly. Meanwhile in SC2, you have to spend time and effort in building up a strong army, upgrade, keep an eye on the map etc. Then you see it all get crushed within seconds.. that puts people off! we need some way to let people in more calmly! then it will raise in popularity!
But what do I know? Im just silver/gold player for the past 3 seasons. sorry if alot of this didn't really make sense, im in bed with my laptop and its late, but hope I got my point and concerns out!
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On August 13 2013 07:28 Lotias wrote:
I didnt want to start a thread about this since I feel this thread is kinda on the subject Im thinking of:
Here's the scenario: I've been playing SC2 for a few weeks now over the summer with my gf, she got the starter edition so she's stuck with T. We do have tons of fun.. but we are silver 2v2 and often, pretty much most games, get CRUSHED unless we rush. What I feel is that we do good, but she doesn't really want to learn the game, so we get stuck on 2 bases and just wait for them to attack, she says that she think its so much fun to play. But is it really when you always loose? how do I get her to want to learn more and watch more of it? I'm afraid that she one day will stop just since its too much to learn and she wants a fun time.
My view of SC2s problem: as many have stated before, I think the problem for many is the steep learning curve for the game, you HAVE to know what you need to do all the time, you must know timings, counters and all that stuff, which means that you must always scout, be aggressive and poke. People don't have the time, or feel that they want to learn everything about the game, since its too much too fast to take in, its hard to just play SC2 for a relaxed fun evening. Whilst in LOL or dota you can pick it up for a day, just lolz around and win on poking in over and over.. you kinda get rewarded quickly. Meanwhile in SC2, you have to spend time and effort in building up a strong army, upgrade, keep an eye on the map etc. Then you see it all get crushed within seconds.. that puts people off! we need some way to let people in more calmly! then it will raise in popularity!
But what do I know? Im just silver/gold player for the past 3 seasons. sorry if alot of this didn't really make sense, im in bed with my laptop and its late, but hope I got my point and concerns out!
Learn a timing attack.
The best way to learn to leave the base to set up a build that forces you to leave the base. Once you're comfortable attacking you will have the mental will to be willing to have more macro oriented builds and playstyles.
A lot of people on these forums says timings are low skill, don't listen. If you're problem is not knowing when to attack, learn a timing attack and practice attacking.
It can be very simple goals.
"Attack at 4 Thors" or "Attack when +2/+2 finishes" etc...
It gives you a goal to reach. "When we hit 150 supply we attack" quickly turns into "I need to get to 150 supply as fast as possible" which quickly goes into "When I have ____, they only have _____ so I should attack at less than/greater than 150 supply instead of at 150," etc....
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EPT
