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Questions to Blizzard - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 09 2013 16:56 GMT
#221
On August 10 2013 01:55 vidium wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2013 01:47 SolidMustard wrote:
when will they understand they need to switch to a f2p model to be able to compete?


They didnt make WoW f2p, which has like 8mil ppl playing so they are not going to make sc2 wich has 300k ppl.

Which is 200K less than Dota 2 at any given time, FYI.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
August 09 2013 16:59 GMT
#222
12 pages later this thread is still whining about balance and that's why sc2 is "dying"

did i get it right?
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
August 09 2013 17:01 GMT
#223
On August 10 2013 01:56 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2013 01:55 vidium wrote:
On August 10 2013 01:47 SolidMustard wrote:
when will they understand they need to switch to a f2p model to be able to compete?


They didnt make WoW f2p, which has like 8mil ppl playing so they are not going to make sc2 wich has 300k ppl.

Which is 200K less than Dota 2 at any given time, FYI.


Monthly subscription: 8 million
One time payment: 300 thousand

Do you really think those types of numbers will convince a board approval of free to play when the cheaper option has less people in it?
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
XXXSmOke
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States1333 Posts
August 09 2013 17:01 GMT
#224
On August 09 2013 19:59 Snowbear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 19:54 Gonzo103 wrote:
On August 09 2013 19:42 Snowbear wrote:
SC2 is actually pretty good. The problem is that people prefer these MOBA games which 1) are played in team, 2) are easier, 3) are free (LoL at least). Imagine these MOBA games weren't there. There would be much more sc2 players.


as stated in the MLG thread by many's already ... the 4.) problem is that Sc2 is not that good of an spectator sport!


You kidding right? SC2 is perfect as a spectator sport. It's amazing to see the top sc2 players play. Watching good micro, multitasking, sick strategies etc...

On the other hand LoL is boring as fuck to spectate: first you see some laning, then you see some teamfights where you think "wtf is happening", then the teamfight is over.

SC2 > LoL as spectator sport IMO.


SC2 is no where near perfect as a spectator sport, while an accomplished SC2 player is way more rare than a LoL player as the game is way more mechanically challenging and awe inspiring due to the control needed to play.

The problem is that most SC2 games follow a timeline of

a) Oh he got all-inned game is over in 5-8 minutes

b) Oh they are both macroing up! This is going to be crrrrazzz--- one big 3 second battle and its GG.


SC2 should be the better spectator sport but the game design is stopping that from happening.

Where as the moba games are really not that exciting to watch, but when you compare them to the current SC2 they are way more exciting.

Even in the character selection start there is so much damn depth its crazy, and most importantly each Moba game has TONS of key battles all over the place, and you know what happens most of the time they win a key fight? They go back and slowly build that advantage by farming more and growing it.

Imagine how bad these MOBA games would be if it was like SC2. OH THEY ACED THE TEAM OH MAN Oh gg what a great 15 minute fight!

o.0
Emperor? Boxer disapproves. He's building bunkers at your mom's house even as you're reading this.
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
August 09 2013 17:04 GMT
#225
On August 10 2013 01:59 renaissanceMAN wrote:
12 pages later this thread is still whining about balance and that's why sc2 is "dying"

did i get it right?

That's pretty damn on the spot. I also see it's inspired by Strelok not having any major wins in the last idk how many months since HotS. I'm not one for picking in pros, but in this case, the frustration at a lack of total results seems to be pretty obvious here; some of these critiques seem to be so tied more personal issues than widespread blizz issues, such as the "Why are there so few terrans QQ."
User was warned for too many mimes.
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
August 09 2013 17:06 GMT
#226
Lol is just way too popular for any other game to compete with unfortunately.
MMA: The true King of Wings
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
August 09 2013 17:09 GMT
#227
On August 10 2013 01:59 renaissanceMAN wrote:
12 pages later this thread is still whining about balance and that's why sc2 is "dying"

did i get it right?


No.
You got it way wrong

Its about design, not balance.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 09 2013 17:10 GMT
#228
On August 10 2013 02:09 Foxxan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2013 01:59 renaissanceMAN wrote:
12 pages later this thread is still whining about balance and that's why sc2 is "dying"

did i get it right?


No.
You got it way wrong

Its about design, not balance.

So its a way more useless discussion that will change little, like all design threads?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Dingodile
Profile Joined December 2011
4139 Posts
August 09 2013 17:12 GMT
#229
As expected, Blizz dont talk to progamers, only to some who are a very influenced variable (most loved) by the community (Grubby & Incontrol).
Grubby | ToD | Moon | Lyn | Sky
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
August 09 2013 17:13 GMT
#230
On August 10 2013 02:12 Dingodile wrote:
As expected, Blizz dont talk to progamers, only to some who are a very influenced variable (most loved) by the community (Grubby & Incontrol).


i don't think this is the case...
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
August 09 2013 17:15 GMT
#231
On August 10 2013 02:10 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2013 02:09 Foxxan wrote:
On August 10 2013 01:59 renaissanceMAN wrote:
12 pages later this thread is still whining about balance and that's why sc2 is "dying"

did i get it right?


No.
You got it way wrong

Its about design, not balance.

So its a way more useless discussion that will change little, like all design threads?


and how should i know that?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 09 2013 17:16 GMT
#232
On August 10 2013 02:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2013 02:12 Dingodile wrote:
As expected, Blizz dont talk to progamers, only to some who are a very influenced variable (most loved) by the community (Grubby & Incontrol).


i don't think this is the case...

It isn't. They talked to progamers and Blizzard said that all of them were super bias towards their own race, which was not helpful.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Ikris
Profile Joined March 2012
24 Posts
August 09 2013 17:17 GMT
#233
What I've never really understood about Battle net is how difficult it is to find people on there.
Most of the chat channels are always empty and the ones to talk to people about learning the game or playing at lower leagues are non existent.
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
August 09 2013 17:19 GMT
#234
On August 10 2013 02:16 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2013 02:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
On August 10 2013 02:12 Dingodile wrote:
As expected, Blizz dont talk to progamers, only to some who are a very influenced variable (most loved) by the community (Grubby & Incontrol).


i don't think this is the case...

It isn't. They talked to progamers and Blizzard said that all of them were super bias towards their own race, which was not helpful.


I would have said this anyway, Blizzard can't rely solely on programers to keep SC2 going, then you'll end up with a gutted game like cod4
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
r1flEx
Profile Joined October 2012
Belgium256 Posts
August 09 2013 17:19 GMT
#235
imo what they should work on is:
less workers with same income = bigger army
unranked play: since it's practice, let them choose opposing race
Dingodile
Profile Joined December 2011
4139 Posts
August 09 2013 17:21 GMT
#236
On August 10 2013 02:16 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2013 02:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
On August 10 2013 02:12 Dingodile wrote:
As expected, Blizz dont talk to progamers, only to some who are a very influenced variable (most loved) by the community (Grubby & Incontrol).


i don't think this is the case...

It isn't. They talked to progamers and Blizzard said that all of them were super bias towards their own race, which was not helpful.

This result came from the korean progamers.
Grubby | ToD | Moon | Lyn | Sky
larse
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1611 Posts
August 09 2013 17:28 GMT
#237
On August 10 2013 01:38 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2013 00:45 drgoats wrote:
On August 09 2013 22:44 LaLuSh wrote:
Unfortunately changes at this stage will have no effect anyway.

I never thought infestor or whatever was the balance whine of the "current period" was ever the biggest problem with SC2 -- it was just something people focus their whine on because they think it's the main problem of gameplay. The gameplay's biggest problmes are definitely things you can't ever change with a simple balance patch, so the result is that nobody whines about them.

You max much faster. You reach max number bases faster. Your economy develops faster (...so you hit all caps faster). The game is faster (but defender's advantage is paradoxically... weaker).

So Blizz put in more and more changes so nobody has to die early game to compensate for no defender's advantage... Queen range, Mothership core, Mines, Spores with no evo, ... (not to mention that everything early/mid game has been havily nerfed since WoL to compensate for no defender advantage, game being faster and reaching max quicker: stim research time, blink research time, zealot build time increased, supply before barracks and barracks build time increased, siege tank damage decrease, khaydarian removed, ghost snipe nerf, ghost EMP nerf, reaper build time increase, nexus life and zerg building life increase, warp gate research time increase). All necessary because units are produced in a different way in SC2, and because the game is faster and hits all artificial caps (supply, max bases economy) earlier. If I counted all changes in beta as well to make the point...

Even more matches now go to max supply, max economy, max bases. When SC2 games go to max supply and 3 bases, they are no longer Starcraft games... they become Warcraft 3 games. Nobody wants to attack. Just babysit army like it's a hero.


More likely reason why every non top level Terran quits is because Terran is the only race that still produces units like Brood War. So you have to have some brains and huge amounts of aggression to be succesful.


If I remember hearing correctly, Blizzard designed the game to be played on a lower speed setting.
First battle report for reference: Battle Report # 1

I agree with all of your statements and think that the easy fix is to slow the speed down. This will encourage early/mid game play (players will have more real time in these phases of the game), it will alleviate some of the dps issues (by definition, dps will go down), and it will take some of the randomness out of the game (players will have more time to scout and react). The last and probably the most important change that slowing the game down would bring is it will make the game much more accessible and less stressful to newcomers.


The best life vs parting game was on a slower speed setting. It was AMAZING! With micro from both sides that seemed ridiculous and awe inspiring.


Making the game fast is a popular demand during WOL alpha. Especially TL had a strong attitude on this back then. So Blizzard listened and increased the game speed during WOL alpha. It turned out, it's too fast...

How ironic.
sabas123
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands3122 Posts
August 09 2013 17:34 GMT
#238
On August 10 2013 02:21 Dingodile wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2013 02:16 Plansix wrote:
On August 10 2013 02:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
On August 10 2013 02:12 Dingodile wrote:
As expected, Blizz dont talk to progamers, only to some who are a very influenced variable (most loved) by the community (Grubby & Incontrol).


i don't think this is the case...

It isn't. They talked to progamers and Blizzard said that all of them were super bias towards their own race, which was not helpful.

This result came from the korean progamers.

i thought this was by chineese progamers
The harder it becomes, the more you should focus on the basics.
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-09 17:35:09
August 09 2013 17:34 GMT
#239
On August 10 2013 02:34 sabas123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2013 02:21 Dingodile wrote:
On August 10 2013 02:16 Plansix wrote:
On August 10 2013 02:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
On August 10 2013 02:12 Dingodile wrote:
As expected, Blizz dont talk to progamers, only to some who are a very influenced variable (most loved) by the community (Grubby & Incontrol).


i don't think this is the case...

It isn't. They talked to progamers and Blizzard said that all of them were super bias towards their own race, which was not helpful.

This result came from the korean progamers.

i thought this was by chineese progamers


i thought this was by african progamers

+ Show Spoiler +
see what I did there
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 09 2013 17:38 GMT
#240
On August 10 2013 02:21 Dingodile wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2013 02:16 Plansix wrote:
On August 10 2013 02:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
On August 10 2013 02:12 Dingodile wrote:
As expected, Blizz dont talk to progamers, only to some who are a very influenced variable (most loved) by the community (Grubby & Incontrol).


i don't think this is the case...

It isn't. They talked to progamers and Blizzard said that all of them were super bias towards their own race, which was not helpful.

This result came from the korean progamers.

This came from Blizzard in several interviews on the subject. They said talking to progamers is not as helpful as people would think. They find it better to discuss balance with other folks in the community who are more objective, aka Artosis, Day 9 and others.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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