Balance patch this week - Hellbats nerfed, Banshees buffed…

On July 13 2013 03:50 Radel wrote:


I meant more in high level competitive games. I do play protoss but I am not very good haha

On July 13 2013 02:27 Xequecal wrote:
Most of the problems I see Terrans having with allins stem from their insistence on making a third CC or dual engineering bays into dual upgrades on 1 rax. Yeah, Protoss dies to allins too if they expand twice or make 2 forges off 1 gateway.

Simply building a missile turret in both mineral lines kills DT and Oracle allins. Immortal/Voidray busts die horribly to any build that actually builds a second rax before tech and upgrades. The blink allin has to be completely unscouted to work, as it's highly dependent on sniping stim research to work at all. If you see it in advance just lift your expo and put bunkers in your main, he can expand but he's still going to die because his units are all useless once you get stim.

On July 13 2013 18:37 Snowbear wrote:


In TvP, it's standard to go reaper CC then add 2 rax and 1 ebay. That build isn't greedy, right? And it's still not the answer to these allins. When I scout double gas, I can indeed make 2 turrets in my mineral lines = 125 (ebay) + 200 (turrets) = 325 (almost a CC). Oeps, I guessed wrong, it's an immortal bust. Those 325 minerals are worthless now. Okay, let's build 3 bunkers on the highground (don't even bother holding your nat, it doesn't work). I'm safe, right? Nope. See lucifron vs nani. Or what about a blinkstalker allin? Do you think the 325 minerals will help here? Nope. Those 325 minerals won't even help against voidray busts. Okay, let's skip the turrets then. Boom, oracle or dt in your mineral line.

Let's say it's a blink allin. I make bunkers. I hold barely. Meanwhile the toss expanded and contains me with sentries. Medivacs are finally out now, I can take my natural! I'm fine now, right? No, I'm behind. Okay, let's kill his worthless stalker army. I cross the map. I arrive at his natural. Boom, the nexuscanon is here! GG.

On July 13 2013 18:54 Doublemint wrote:


There is quite a bit of QQ in there.

Apparently your reaper dies instantly after scouting the 2 gases, as in he ragequits instead of looking for pylons/missing pylons that could indicate a proxy stargate and maybe kill a probe or 2 - and by not dying help the scout scv(yes some thing like that could help too) to confirm an expansion or 1 base play.

And since when are blink allins viable on all maps?
Did you even watch that nani vs lucifron game? I like naniwa and I am very happy he got through, but I have no idea how he was able to win that game on belshir vestige let alone deserve that win apart from the fact that luci played even worse.

No way will you break those 5 bunkers on the friggin highground when the terran actually focus fires correctly and just estimates the situation correctly.

On July 13 2013 19:05 TeeTS wrote:


you are wrong.
and the way you are talking about 5 bunkers, like they are free to build, just underlines, that you have no idea of how terran works.

On July 13 2013 16:47 ETisME wrote:
mech is dead but not because zerg has swarmhost/viper.
mech is dead because bio mine is way more viable in all maps and perform much better with significant less risk in comparison

On July 14 2013 02:47 Mehukannu wrote:

Doesn't it still come down swarmhost/viper seeing how mech severely under performs against those units while bio mine does not? I don't see how bio being better has anything to do with mech being dead, because if that was true then shouldn't mech be at least moderately viable?

On July 14 2013 04:36 Empirimancer wrote:
So is the patch coming or what?

On July 14 2013 03:18 blade55555 wrote:


It really depends because one thing you have to remember is bio has been used since the dawn of sc2. It's a lot more figured out then mech and to figure it out would take a lot of time that may not even be worth it.

Right now it definitely looks like mech isn't viable which I am fine for tvz as mech is boring, but I wish it was viable tvp as it would be a bit more fun to watch rather then the same thing as tvz except not as many widow mines.

On July 13 2013 16:47 ETisME wrote:
mech is dead but not because zerg has swarmhost/viper.
mech is dead because bio mine is way more viable in all maps and perform much better with significant less risk in comparison

On July 14 2013 04:41 pmp10 wrote:

Well that's exactly the problem.
Mech performs much worse than bio because of it's vulnerability to the newly introduced units like swarmhost/viper/tempest.

On July 14 2013 04:47 freetgy wrote:
What i think that might be able to help terrans become more robust design wise is an mid 2 lategame upgrade which reduces the time a siege tank transformation needs and an initial armor increase to 2 instead on 1, which makes them better vs. light units that have fast attack rate, but low damage.

I do not think that Siege Tanks need a damage upgrade, since they are very like Swarm Hosts which become much more deadly the more they increase in numbers. I think Blizzard did a good job by decreasing the leniency on siege tanks by introducing widow mines. Which may allow for future modifications of siege tanks so they fit better and stable role in the game.

On July 14 2013 03:18 blade55555 wrote:


It really depends because one thing you have to remember is bio has been used since the dawn of sc2. It's a lot more figured out then mech and to figure it out would take a lot of time that may not even be worth it.

Right now it definitely looks like mech isn't viable which I am fine for tvz as mech is boring, but I wish it was viable tvp as it would be a bit more fun to watch rather then the same thing as tvz except not as many widow mines.

On July 13 2013 05:19 Sissors wrote:

Yeah imo it is really weird that the game doesn't tell you balance changes were done, and patch notes also don't say anything in the launcher. Aditionally also the ingame news thingie doesn't mention anything. A terran not visitting TL/similar sites would only stumble by accident on it, and non-terrans have no way of noticing banshee cloak changes.

On July 14 2013 04:47 freetgy wrote:


Well to be honest, its not mech that is the problem. It in most cases is that faster units usually much better than slower units.
SC2 is focused too much on speed play instead of positional play or that positional play isn't rewarded enough. We see that by Protoss getting an easier escape path via Recall on MSC, and Terrans with Medivacs, Mutas with increased Speed and the general tendency to increase map sizes.

What i think that might be able to help terrans become more robust design wise is an mid 2 lategame upgrade which reduces the time a siege tank transformation needs and an initial armor increase to 2 instead on 1, which makes them better vs. light units that have fast attack rate, but low damage.

I do not think that Siege Tanks need a damage upgrade, since they are very like Swarm Hosts which become much more deadly the more they increase in numbers. I think Blizzard did a good job by decreasing the leniency on siege tanks by introducing widow mines. Which may allow for future modifications of siege tanks so they fit better and stable role in the game.