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On July 14 2013 06:02 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 03:18 blade55555 wrote:On July 14 2013 02:47 Mehukannu wrote:On July 13 2013 16:47 ETisME wrote:
mech is dead but not because zerg has swarmhost/viper.
mech is dead because bio mine is way more viable in all maps and perform much better with significant less risk in comparison Doesn't it still come down swarmhost/viper seeing how mech severely under performs against those units while bio mine does not? I don't see how bio being better has anything to do with mech being dead, because if that was true then shouldn't mech be at least moderately viable? It really depends because one thing you have to remember is bio has been used since the dawn of sc2. It's a lot more figured out then mech and to figure it out would take a lot of time that may not even be worth it. Right now it definitely looks like mech isn't viable which I am fine for tvz as mech is boring, but I wish it was viable tvp as it would be a bit more fun to watch rather then the same thing as tvz except not as many widow mines. This "mech is not figured out" myth has to stop. If mech was viable, then it would've been figured out a long time ago. It's not that there is some secret out there that no terran has found yet.
I have to fully agree here, because unlike any other composition mech is really really slow to move and thus react. So "figuring out" is NOT POSSIBLE because it is something which involves precise timings or specific (harrassment, multi-pronged attacks) maneuvers or compositions. You have to produce a mixed composition of units at a VERY SLOW RATE and if your opponent does something to counter you there is nothing you can do to change it; you need to decide which factory gets a tech lab and which one a reactor and this limits your flexibility as to what you can produce (since it is inefficient to produce Hellions from a factory with a tech lab for example).
Figuring out might only involve "strategic placement of Planetary Fortress + turret positions", but that doesnt really work in the real world.
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I'm excited for banshees, should make mech openings way, way better.
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On July 14 2013 15:36 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 06:02 Snowbear wrote:On July 14 2013 03:18 blade55555 wrote:On July 14 2013 02:47 Mehukannu wrote:On July 13 2013 16:47 ETisME wrote:
mech is dead but not because zerg has swarmhost/viper.
mech is dead because bio mine is way more viable in all maps and perform much better with significant less risk in comparison Doesn't it still come down swarmhost/viper seeing how mech severely under performs against those units while bio mine does not? I don't see how bio being better has anything to do with mech being dead, because if that was true then shouldn't mech be at least moderately viable? It really depends because one thing you have to remember is bio has been used since the dawn of sc2. It's a lot more figured out then mech and to figure it out would take a lot of time that may not even be worth it. Right now it definitely looks like mech isn't viable which I am fine for tvz as mech is boring, but I wish it was viable tvp as it would be a bit more fun to watch rather then the same thing as tvz except not as many widow mines. This "mech is not figured out" myth has to stop. If mech was viable, then it would've been figured out a long time ago. It's not that there is some secret out there that no terran has found yet. I have to fully agree here, because unlike any other composition mech is really really slow to move and thus react. So "figuring out" is NOT POSSIBLE because it is something which involves precise timings or specific (harrassment, multi-pronged attacks) maneuvers or compositions. You have to produce a mixed composition of units at a VERY SLOW RATE and if your opponent does something to counter you there is nothing you can do to change it; you need to decide which factory gets a tech lab and which one a reactor and this limits your flexibility as to what you can produce (since it is inefficient to produce Hellions from a factory with a tech lab for example). Figuring out might only involve "strategic placement of Planetary Fortress + turret positions", but that doesnt really work in the real world.
yes i guess sc2 has been figured out, because if there were more strategies than the current ones, they would've been figured out a long time ago
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On July 15 2013 00:22 nkr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:36 Rabiator wrote:On July 14 2013 06:02 Snowbear wrote:On July 14 2013 03:18 blade55555 wrote:On July 14 2013 02:47 Mehukannu wrote:On July 13 2013 16:47 ETisME wrote:
mech is dead but not because zerg has swarmhost/viper.
mech is dead because bio mine is way more viable in all maps and perform much better with significant less risk in comparison Doesn't it still come down swarmhost/viper seeing how mech severely under performs against those units while bio mine does not? I don't see how bio being better has anything to do with mech being dead, because if that was true then shouldn't mech be at least moderately viable? It really depends because one thing you have to remember is bio has been used since the dawn of sc2. It's a lot more figured out then mech and to figure it out would take a lot of time that may not even be worth it. Right now it definitely looks like mech isn't viable which I am fine for tvz as mech is boring, but I wish it was viable tvp as it would be a bit more fun to watch rather then the same thing as tvz except not as many widow mines. This "mech is not figured out" myth has to stop. If mech was viable, then it would've been figured out a long time ago. It's not that there is some secret out there that no terran has found yet. I have to fully agree here, because unlike any other composition mech is really really slow to move and thus react. So "figuring out" is NOT POSSIBLE because it is something which involves precise timings or specific (harrassment, multi-pronged attacks) maneuvers or compositions. You have to produce a mixed composition of units at a VERY SLOW RATE and if your opponent does something to counter you there is nothing you can do to change it; you need to decide which factory gets a tech lab and which one a reactor and this limits your flexibility as to what you can produce (since it is inefficient to produce Hellions from a factory with a tech lab for example). Figuring out might only involve "strategic placement of Planetary Fortress + turret positions", but that doesnt really work in the real world. yes i guess sc2 has been figured out, because if there were more strategies than the current ones, they would've been figured out a long time ago
I was going to point out the same thing.... When's SC3 coming out again?
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On July 15 2013 00:22 nkr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2013 15:36 Rabiator wrote:On July 14 2013 06:02 Snowbear wrote:On July 14 2013 03:18 blade55555 wrote:On July 14 2013 02:47 Mehukannu wrote:On July 13 2013 16:47 ETisME wrote:
mech is dead but not because zerg has swarmhost/viper.
mech is dead because bio mine is way more viable in all maps and perform much better with significant less risk in comparison Doesn't it still come down swarmhost/viper seeing how mech severely under performs against those units while bio mine does not? I don't see how bio being better has anything to do with mech being dead, because if that was true then shouldn't mech be at least moderately viable? It really depends because one thing you have to remember is bio has been used since the dawn of sc2. It's a lot more figured out then mech and to figure it out would take a lot of time that may not even be worth it. Right now it definitely looks like mech isn't viable which I am fine for tvz as mech is boring, but I wish it was viable tvp as it would be a bit more fun to watch rather then the same thing as tvz except not as many widow mines. This "mech is not figured out" myth has to stop. If mech was viable, then it would've been figured out a long time ago. It's not that there is some secret out there that no terran has found yet. I have to fully agree here, because unlike any other composition mech is really really slow to move and thus react. So "figuring out" is NOT POSSIBLE because it is something which involves precise timings or specific (harrassment, multi-pronged attacks) maneuvers or compositions. You have to produce a mixed composition of units at a VERY SLOW RATE and if your opponent does something to counter you there is nothing you can do to change it; you need to decide which factory gets a tech lab and which one a reactor and this limits your flexibility as to what you can produce (since it is inefficient to produce Hellions from a factory with a tech lab for example). Figuring out might only involve "strategic placement of Planetary Fortress + turret positions", but that doesnt really work in the real world. yes i guess sc2 has been figured out, because if there were more strategies than the current ones, they would've been figured out a long time ago
well the problem with mech is, that there are obvious counters to the whole playstyle. And we know that these work way to well to make it viable on a regular basis.
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On July 15 2013 00:17 guts-o-matic wrote:
I'm excited for banshees, should make mech openings way, way better.
How would it make mech better than hellbat openings, wich gave you better harass, reactor factory, armoy and vikings?
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On July 15 2013 01:12 RHGaming wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 00:22 nkr wrote:On July 14 2013 15:36 Rabiator wrote:On July 14 2013 06:02 Snowbear wrote:On July 14 2013 03:18 blade55555 wrote:On July 14 2013 02:47 Mehukannu wrote:On July 13 2013 16:47 ETisME wrote:
mech is dead but not because zerg has swarmhost/viper.
mech is dead because bio mine is way more viable in all maps and perform much better with significant less risk in comparison Doesn't it still come down swarmhost/viper seeing how mech severely under performs against those units while bio mine does not? I don't see how bio being better has anything to do with mech being dead, because if that was true then shouldn't mech be at least moderately viable? It really depends because one thing you have to remember is bio has been used since the dawn of sc2. It's a lot more figured out then mech and to figure it out would take a lot of time that may not even be worth it. Right now it definitely looks like mech isn't viable which I am fine for tvz as mech is boring, but I wish it was viable tvp as it would be a bit more fun to watch rather then the same thing as tvz except not as many widow mines. This "mech is not figured out" myth has to stop. If mech was viable, then it would've been figured out a long time ago. It's not that there is some secret out there that no terran has found yet. I have to fully agree here, because unlike any other composition mech is really really slow to move and thus react. So "figuring out" is NOT POSSIBLE because it is something which involves precise timings or specific (harrassment, multi-pronged attacks) maneuvers or compositions. You have to produce a mixed composition of units at a VERY SLOW RATE and if your opponent does something to counter you there is nothing you can do to change it; you need to decide which factory gets a tech lab and which one a reactor and this limits your flexibility as to what you can produce (since it is inefficient to produce Hellions from a factory with a tech lab for example). Figuring out might only involve "strategic placement of Planetary Fortress + turret positions", but that doesnt really work in the real world. yes i guess sc2 has been figured out, because if there were more strategies than the current ones, they would've been figured out a long time ago I was going to point out the same thing.... When's SC3 coming out again?
First of all another expansion for SC2 comes out, called Legacy of the Void (Release in 2015 I think)
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On July 15 2013 01:12 RHGaming wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 00:22 nkr wrote:On July 14 2013 15:36 Rabiator wrote:On July 14 2013 06:02 Snowbear wrote:On July 14 2013 03:18 blade55555 wrote:On July 14 2013 02:47 Mehukannu wrote:On July 13 2013 16:47 ETisME wrote:
mech is dead but not because zerg has swarmhost/viper.
mech is dead because bio mine is way more viable in all maps and perform much better with significant less risk in comparison Doesn't it still come down swarmhost/viper seeing how mech severely under performs against those units while bio mine does not? I don't see how bio being better has anything to do with mech being dead, because if that was true then shouldn't mech be at least moderately viable? It really depends because one thing you have to remember is bio has been used since the dawn of sc2. It's a lot more figured out then mech and to figure it out would take a lot of time that may not even be worth it. Right now it definitely looks like mech isn't viable which I am fine for tvz as mech is boring, but I wish it was viable tvp as it would be a bit more fun to watch rather then the same thing as tvz except not as many widow mines. This "mech is not figured out" myth has to stop. If mech was viable, then it would've been figured out a long time ago. It's not that there is some secret out there that no terran has found yet. I have to fully agree here, because unlike any other composition mech is really really slow to move and thus react. So "figuring out" is NOT POSSIBLE because it is something which involves precise timings or specific (harrassment, multi-pronged attacks) maneuvers or compositions. You have to produce a mixed composition of units at a VERY SLOW RATE and if your opponent does something to counter you there is nothing you can do to change it; you need to decide which factory gets a tech lab and which one a reactor and this limits your flexibility as to what you can produce (since it is inefficient to produce Hellions from a factory with a tech lab for example). Figuring out might only involve "strategic placement of Planetary Fortress + turret positions", but that doesnt really work in the real world. yes i guess sc2 has been figured out, because if there were more strategies than the current ones, they would've been figured out a long time ago I was going to point out the same thing.... When's SC3 coming out again?
Once Artosis's kid is old enough to practice 24/7.
But yeah... the LotV expansion still needs to come out first lol. SC2 isn't figured out. The metagame changes, just as it did in BW.
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So how do I win in TvP mech? Banshee buff has done nothing, and hellbats without blueflame are utterly useless.
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On July 15 2013 02:03 lolcamel wrote:
So how do I win in TvP mech? Banshee buff has done nothing, and hellbats without blueflame are utterly useless.
You don't. You couldn't really do it before patch unless P made huge mistakes, and now it's completely impossible.
Dat HotS mech.
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On July 15 2013 02:05 gillon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 02:03 lolcamel wrote:
So how do I win in TvP mech? Banshee buff has done nothing, and hellbats without blueflame are utterly useless. You don't. You couldn't really do it before patch unless P made huge mistakes, and now it's completely impossible. Dat HotS mech.
I should report you for not contributing anything 
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On July 15 2013 02:03 lolcamel wrote:
So how do I win in TvP mech? Banshee buff has done nothing, and hellbats without blueflame are utterly useless.
You all-in of two bases.
Alternatively you need to kill good number of probes in harassment.
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On July 15 2013 01:43 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 01:12 RHGaming wrote:On July 15 2013 00:22 nkr wrote:On July 14 2013 15:36 Rabiator wrote:On July 14 2013 06:02 Snowbear wrote:On July 14 2013 03:18 blade55555 wrote:On July 14 2013 02:47 Mehukannu wrote:On July 13 2013 16:47 ETisME wrote:
mech is dead but not because zerg has swarmhost/viper.
mech is dead because bio mine is way more viable in all maps and perform much better with significant less risk in comparison Doesn't it still come down swarmhost/viper seeing how mech severely under performs against those units while bio mine does not? I don't see how bio being better has anything to do with mech being dead, because if that was true then shouldn't mech be at least moderately viable? It really depends because one thing you have to remember is bio has been used since the dawn of sc2. It's a lot more figured out then mech and to figure it out would take a lot of time that may not even be worth it. Right now it definitely looks like mech isn't viable which I am fine for tvz as mech is boring, but I wish it was viable tvp as it would be a bit more fun to watch rather then the same thing as tvz except not as many widow mines. This "mech is not figured out" myth has to stop. If mech was viable, then it would've been figured out a long time ago. It's not that there is some secret out there that no terran has found yet. I have to fully agree here, because unlike any other composition mech is really really slow to move and thus react. So "figuring out" is NOT POSSIBLE because it is something which involves precise timings or specific (harrassment, multi-pronged attacks) maneuvers or compositions. You have to produce a mixed composition of units at a VERY SLOW RATE and if your opponent does something to counter you there is nothing you can do to change it; you need to decide which factory gets a tech lab and which one a reactor and this limits your flexibility as to what you can produce (since it is inefficient to produce Hellions from a factory with a tech lab for example). Figuring out might only involve "strategic placement of Planetary Fortress + turret positions", but that doesnt really work in the real world. yes i guess sc2 has been figured out, because if there were more strategies than the current ones, they would've been figured out a long time ago I was going to point out the same thing.... When's SC3 coming out again? Once Artosis's kid is old enough to practice 24/7. But yeah... the LotV expansion still needs to come out first lol. SC2 isn't figured out. The metagame changes, just as it did in BW.
That is the beauty of the Starcraft! always new stuffs in expansions! But I heard that they will not give more units though 
Seriously, I'm not gonna buy LotV if they don't have new stuff! I WANT MOR UNITS!!!
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On July 13 2013 01:01 WeRRa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 00:09 Snowbear wrote:
I really wonder when blizzard will fix tvp, since it's really unfair for terran.
Watch a terran pro stream. I guarantee you he will whine about protoss. Even demuslim said that it's just insane what they can do.
First of all: allins. Terran has to guess out of 7 possible allins. If you guess/scout right, then you got a small chance of holing it (cf. naniwa vs lucifron). An example is: dt into blinkstalker (very popular these days). It's really hard for terran to defend right against this.
In the midgame you can't attack. The mccore shuts down every agression, unless the toss makes no army. You can't drop either: mccore + tosses learned to place observers at key spots. Then go into lategame? Nope. 10 spreaded hts. Emp 80% of them: nicely done, but 2 are left, and storm your army to dead.
But but but.... Allin! Nope, also not possible. The mccore shuts it down too.
I'm really happy with the hellbat nerf. It will bring the terran winrate in tvp down to where it actually is, and that's definately not 50%.
I really think it's time for a ghostbuff.
Couldn't agree more, Terran can't touch at any state of the game and thats just silly. The deathball of toss was always dominating terran lategame, but you had at least some chances to do early damage. Now this is impossible and beating toss in a even fight in lategame is almost impossible.
If you were right, TvP winrates should drop substantially. I doubt that this will happen.
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On July 15 2013 17:58 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 01:01 WeRRa wrote:On July 13 2013 00:09 Snowbear wrote:
I really wonder when blizzard will fix tvp, since it's really unfair for terran.
Watch a terran pro stream. I guarantee you he will whine about protoss. Even demuslim said that it's just insane what they can do.
First of all: allins. Terran has to guess out of 7 possible allins. If you guess/scout right, then you got a small chance of holing it (cf. naniwa vs lucifron). An example is: dt into blinkstalker (very popular these days). It's really hard for terran to defend right against this.
In the midgame you can't attack. The mccore shuts down every agression, unless the toss makes no army. You can't drop either: mccore + tosses learned to place observers at key spots. Then go into lategame? Nope. 10 spreaded hts. Emp 80% of them: nicely done, but 2 are left, and storm your army to dead.
But but but.... Allin! Nope, also not possible. The mccore shuts it down too.
I'm really happy with the hellbat nerf. It will bring the terran winrate in tvp down to where it actually is, and that's definately not 50%.
I really think it's time for a ghostbuff.
Couldn't agree more, Terran can't touch at any state of the game and thats just silly. The deathball of toss was always dominating terran lategame, but you had at least some chances to do early damage. Now this is impossible and beating toss in a even fight in lategame is almost impossible. If you were right, TvP winrates should drop substantially. I doubt that this will happen.
wait and see I want to remember that the same phrases were made, when the queen patch came out.
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On July 15 2013 02:34 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 02:03 lolcamel wrote:
So how do I win in TvP mech? Banshee buff has done nothing, and hellbats without blueflame are utterly useless. You all-in of two bases. Alternatively you need to kill good number of probes in harassment.
Or you get the 1 in 12 games engagement (which makes a tear appear in your eye cause you are so proud and happy) every game.
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On July 15 2013 02:03 lolcamel wrote:
So how do I win in TvP mech? Banshee buff has done nothing, and hellbats without blueflame are utterly useless.
PUNISHER GRENADES
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On July 15 2013 02:03 lolcamel wrote:
So how do I win in TvP mech? Banshee buff has done nothing, and hellbats without blueflame are utterly useless.
With Speed mine drops, way better then the old Hellbat drops ! 
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I'm still waiting for the SC2 terrans to catch up to SC1. Remember how many factories you would build in TvP? Screens full of them. In SC2, people seem to be content not building more than five, and then complain about how they can remax so slowly. I get that reactors double factory production for units that don't need tech labs, but building up to 10 factories at least when you do have the ressources bothers me a lot. Mech does not remax much slower than any other composition, as long as you have enough production going. Which is more costly than bio production to get up, but that is not the point here.
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The problem of mech is not the remax speed but the cost to efficiency ratio.
Building speed doesn't matter when you are constantly gas-starved.
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EPT
