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Balance patch this week - Hellbats nerfed, Banshees buffed…

Forum Index > SC2 General
1080 CommentsPost a Reply
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TripleSec
Profile Joined May 2011
Hungary11 Posts
July 09 2013 10:24 GMT
#581
I look forward to Banshee buff effects, so GL HF !
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 10:43:10
July 09 2013 10:29 GMT
#582
On July 09 2013 18:48 Rabiator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 18:02 NarutO wrote:
On July 09 2013 17:47 Rabiator wrote:
Hellbat change wont matter much, because the "problem" of the Hellbat drop is that it costs almost nothing and you can lose 3-4 double Medivac drops and only deal the decisive economic blow with the 5th drop anyways. Sooo ... people will just save up the Medivacs and Hellbats until blue flame is done researching and then go with 4-5 Medivacs at the same time.

Power Overwhelming!

The Hellbat change isnt a "fix of the issue" but rather only a delay ... and since the time doesnt really matter that much (because they are just as efficient later on and players wont have built more static defenses anyways) the effect will be just the same.


I called you out on another balance thread, and I'll do here as well. You called me an arrogant asshole for that matter for calling you out, but the reality is, you don't understand the game at the level you need to, to actually make a qualified post. While the hellbat drops were dangerous for Protoss and Zerg, they were no where near balance breaking or game deciding and eventually, defending the hellbat drops with killing the medivac/hellbats leaves Terran actually far behind, but a player like you will never understand, because they overcommit to defence.

Queens are actually a very good call as they are powerful against medivacs and hellbats, they can transfuse the static defence as well. If you go hellbat drops and commit (aka lose the medivac) you will end up way behind. IF you don't commit and save everything, you dealt minimal damage. The marauder/hellbat timing that can follow is strong, but certainly not unbeatable especially when scouted and ling/bane or roach/bane can defend it.

If you defend that timing, Terran is more than just behind. I don't even want to start on TvP .



So why did Moonglade lose that game after Sound lost FOUR DOUBLE-Medivac-Hellbat drops without achieving too much? By your definition Sound should have been MILES behind because of the HUGE investment.

Oh and I called you arrogant because you said that balance should only be done for the top half of the progamers and "tough luck for the rest of the players, sucks to be you. Have fun playing an unbalanced game." (more or less).


Considering he had an overlord to give vision on the blindspot, he should have put two spore to block the most direct route to the mineral line initially. He held off the second push quite well and didn't do so well on the third, Moonglade also gambled on doing enough damage on the counter with ling/bling/muta on sound's 3rd base..

The defensive turrets by Sound is excellently placed, fending off the muta from entering the main base, see 12:29, with just three turret, cuts off 12 mutas from entering the top left corner base. this is what I've been harping about.
Good placement of turrets pay for themselves, allowing you to focus on army placement and force expensive trade off for an opponent.

Get your static defensive network up!

And Moonglade didn't trade very well thereafter. I mean at 16:20 he had banked 1K minerals but couldn't find 450 minerals to put up 3 spore colonies to cover the 2nd bottom base. I mean come on...
Cauterize the area
p1oneer
Profile Joined April 2011
Latvia50 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 10:31:47
July 09 2013 10:30 GMT
#583
Those hellbats are keeping me so angry... Reason is that WHY ARE THEY being healed by medivacs?!?!?!? vikings can be transformed, can be transported in medivacs, but not healed, so what is the difference? hellions cant be and hellbats can? this just makes no sense. hellbats healed by medivacs are retrieving their health faster than siege tank in a siege mode shoots. thats so stupid. Seeing mech TvT with medivacs healing mech unit.... Watching OSL now bbyong vs innovation. And the point is this patch want change mech TvT at all. Maybe it was better to turn of ability to be healed for hellbats? This would change other match-ups as well. What u guys think?
p1oneer
Profile Joined April 2011
Latvia50 Posts
July 09 2013 10:34 GMT
#584
and why the hell light mech unit like Hellbat can burn the tank? Tanks are almost not used in all match-ups. That is another point to think about
ShroudeD
Profile Joined August 2012
Greece1333 Posts
July 09 2013 10:35 GMT
#585
I'm gonna 2 starport banshee every game now
Mvp,Fantasy 4ever
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
July 09 2013 10:36 GMT
#586
So hellbats are nerfed, while hellbat drops are still too effective.

Hellbats are gone in TvP. In TvZ I wonder if it's worth to research the upgrade, since 1) I need to cut 150 gas, on a starport, or an armory, 2) I need to stay on a techlab factory for a long time. Do I make tanks out of the fact or 1 hellbat at a time?
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
July 09 2013 10:37 GMT
#587
On July 09 2013 19:36 Snowbear wrote:
So hellbats are nerfed, while hellbat drops are still too effective.

Hellbats are gone in TvP. In TvZ I wonder if it's worth to research the upgrade, since 1) I need to cut 150 gas, on a starport, or an armory, 2) I need to stay on a techlab factory for a long time. Do I make tanks out of the fact or 1 hellbat at a time?


Add a second factory with techlab.... You can use it for the mine switch against ultras or thors later on too.
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
July 09 2013 10:38 GMT
#588
On July 09 2013 19:36 Snowbear wrote:
So hellbats are nerfed, while hellbat drops are still too effective.

Hellbats are gone in TvP. In TvZ I wonder if it's worth to research the upgrade, since 1) I need to cut 150 gas, on a starport, or an armory, 2) I need to stay on a techlab factory for a long time. Do I make tanks out of the fact or 1 hellbat at a time?


I don't think we will see hellbat from now on in any matchup, unless someone goes mech, or maybe in the lategame.
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
July 09 2013 10:39 GMT
#589
172 HARDCORE terran players who vote for "I only like the banshee" thats the best in whole poll haha
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
July 09 2013 10:39 GMT
#590
On July 09 2013 19:37 NarutO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 19:36 Snowbear wrote:
So hellbats are nerfed, while hellbat drops are still too effective.

Hellbats are gone in TvP. In TvZ I wonder if it's worth to research the upgrade, since 1) I need to cut 150 gas, on a starport, or an armory, 2) I need to stay on a techlab factory for a long time. Do I make tanks out of the fact or 1 hellbat at a time?


Add a second factory with techlab.... You can use it for the mine switch against ultras or thors later on too.


But if I want to hit a 13:00 marine + 4 tank + medivac + hellbat timing, then I don't have money for 1) 150 gas for the upgrade, 2) 100 gas for a second factory. OR I need to cut the starport for some time? Really wondering.. I don't like to rely on mines, since there are too many strong timings that exploit them imo.
NOFX
Profile Joined April 2013
France32 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-09 10:40:51
July 09 2013 10:40 GMT
#591
On July 09 2013 19:30 p1oneer wrote:
Those hellbats are keeping me so angry... Reason is that WHY ARE THEY being healed by medivacs?!?!?!? vikings can be transformed, can be transported in medivacs, but not healed, so what is the difference? hellions cant be and hellbats can? this just makes no sense. hellbats healed by medivacs are retrieving their health faster than siege tank in a siege mode shoots. thats so stupid. Seeing mech TvT with medivacs healing mech unit.... Watching OSL now bbyong vs innovation. And the point is this patch want change mech TvT at all. Maybe it was better to turn of ability to be healed for hellbats? This would change other match-ups as well. What u guys think?


I totally agree that the problem is not the damage output of the hellbat, but the synergy between the super mobility of new medivac and their healing. This is just too much. But early TvT will be a bit better anyway. Cannot be worst.

The good thing to me is that mech players will get blue flame everytime now, and it now makes more sense to make transformation servo or whatever it's called, blue flame hellion run bys will be way more present I guess =)

I'm not really happy about the buff they made on the banshee though, this won't change anything in TvZ/TvP, and the fact that banshee cloack is now possible on one gas, scouting will be more based on luck in TvT.

Wait and see.
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
July 09 2013 10:42 GMT
#592
On July 09 2013 19:39 Snowbear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 19:37 NarutO wrote:
On July 09 2013 19:36 Snowbear wrote:
So hellbats are nerfed, while hellbat drops are still too effective.

Hellbats are gone in TvP. In TvZ I wonder if it's worth to research the upgrade, since 1) I need to cut 150 gas, on a starport, or an armory, 2) I need to stay on a techlab factory for a long time. Do I make tanks out of the fact or 1 hellbat at a time?


Add a second factory with techlab.... You can use it for the mine switch against ultras or thors later on too.


But if I want to hit a 13:00 marine + 4 tank + medivac + hellbat timing, then I don't have money for 1) 150 gas for the upgrade, 2) 100 gas for a second factory. OR I need to cut the starport for some time? Really wondering.. I don't like to rely on mines, since there are too many strong timings that exploit them imo.


I don't play timings, so I cannot tell you , sorry
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
July 09 2013 10:42 GMT
#593
On July 09 2013 19:39 Snowbear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 19:37 NarutO wrote:
On July 09 2013 19:36 Snowbear wrote:
So hellbats are nerfed, while hellbat drops are still too effective.

Hellbats are gone in TvP. In TvZ I wonder if it's worth to research the upgrade, since 1) I need to cut 150 gas, on a starport, or an armory, 2) I need to stay on a techlab factory for a long time. Do I make tanks out of the fact or 1 hellbat at a time?


Add a second factory with techlab.... You can use it for the mine switch against ultras or thors later on too.


But if I want to hit a 13:00 marine + 4 tank + medivac + hellbat timing, then I don't have money for 1) 150 gas for the upgrade, 2) 100 gas for a second factory. OR I need to cut the starport for some time? Really wondering.. I don't like to rely on mines, since there are too many strong timings that exploit them imo.


Then you may want to look into banshee/hellion. especially after this patch.
iyasq8
Profile Joined December 2012
113 Posts
July 09 2013 10:58 GMT
#594
wait so how are we gonna scout them in zvt? am guessing its 1 gas opener????
Piece
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
July 09 2013 10:58 GMT
#595
Also prepare to a ton of zerg whine. They are not used to this new hellion banshee harass, and it will take time for them to adjust. And we all know what they do during that time :p..
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
July 09 2013 10:59 GMT
#596
On July 09 2013 19:58 iyasq8 wrote:
wait so how are we gonna scout them in zvt? am guessing its 1 gas opener????

If only you could sacrifice Overlords, or even research Over speed at hatch tech.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
July 09 2013 11:07 GMT
#597
On July 09 2013 19:58 iyasq8 wrote:
wait so how are we gonna scout them in zvt? am guessing its 1 gas opener????


the exactly same way you are scouting banshee's right now, because nothing changes apart from it being cheaper?
Napoleon53
Profile Joined January 2010
Denmark167 Posts
July 09 2013 11:18 GMT
#598
On July 09 2013 19:39 Drake wrote:
172 HARDCORE terran players who vote for "I only like the banshee" thats the best in whole poll haha

Im a terranplayer who dont like the hellbat nerf. I think it is too soft. I would rather prefer something like less HP, no medivac healing, or even slower movement speed. I dont think the damage nerf is enough. But I guess time will tell...
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 09 2013 11:19 GMT
#599
On July 09 2013 19:12 PanzerElite wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 18:57 [F_]aths wrote:
On July 09 2013 18:50 PanzerElite wrote:
TvT was developing fine, this is just stupid and it brings back rock/paper/scissors in TvT. And Banshee rushers were scum of the universe in Wol imo. And Hellbat marauder allins also get nerfed, which is silly because the game was already balanced.

I hope terran winrates drop hard so that we get a good buff instead of a useless banshee in TvP and TvZ.
I hope that one day players will start to use the game they have instead of wanting rule change to buff their race.


WOULD MAKE SENSE IF we wouldn't get a stupid nerf.

Well stop having units that need to be nerfed and buffed. God.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Lock0n
Profile Joined December 2012
United Kingdom184 Posts
July 09 2013 11:30 GMT
#600
Once hellbats are nerfed, TvT will go from being a tense and explosive matchup with hellbat drops, to a long and drawn out turtle fest. This nerf will add 10 mins to an average TvT game, and will be much more boring if you ask me.
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