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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On July 09 2013 15:14 Candramelekh wrote: Another sc2 "champion" dethroned by patch what are you talking about innovation has never relied on hellbats as a crutch he uses them as a tool. big difference. he has been strong and consistent with many different styles of play and always on the upswing. to deride him as just another player getting by with free worker kills is just acidic. | ||
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painkilla
United States695 Posts
On July 09 2013 15:14 Candramelekh wrote: Another sc2 "champion" dethroned by patch Flash fans? | ||
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MVK
Romania11 Posts
My opinion about the current state of the game is mothershipcore fuck the earlygame, no more 2rax or 1-1-1, banshees won't be used in TvP at all, and I don't see a reason why zergs don't need evo chamber to make spores, protoss needs forge to build cannon (150 mineral for air and ground defense + detection...) | ||
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Neemi
Netherlands656 Posts
Naah, neither Innovation / Flash ever really relied on hellbats, I feel they mostly just used them because it worked. Either way, I love both changes! It even has a nice side effect - if the zerg researches one carapace and the Terran doesn't upgrade hellbat at all, the hellbat needs 3 shots to kill a zergling (17+17 < 35) which is AWESOME. I understand hellbats are hardcounters but I disagree with the hardcounter being so strong it could literally destroy 10x the value of the other unit without even trying. Tanks can potentially destroy a whole lot more but not if they're by themselves, hellbats don't need any support to take down throngs of lings. | ||
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Bogeyman
Sweden307 Posts
1. Hellbats won't come out kicking and punching quite as hard, and that's really all that's necessary. 2. At least for P and Z, detection comes either easier (no evo req) or in new ways (oracle), so early cloaked banshees doesn't catch people off guard nearly as easily in HotS so no matter how effective they are without this buff I imagine there is some leeway before it's as good as it was in WoL. Will be fun to see how it works out. | ||
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GulpyBlinkeyes
United States1449 Posts
On July 09 2013 15:50 MVK wrote: I don't see a reason why zergs don't need evo chamber to make spores, protoss needs forge to build cannon (150 mineral for air and ground defense + detection...) Take a few moments to imagine what a cannon rush would look like if the protoss didn't need to build a forge before building cannons. | ||
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syno
Switzerland150 Posts
And almost every Terran opened with banshee. But now, I havent seen a banshee for like a year (I'm talking about my personal laddergames). I really hope that will change now. I also love the Hellbat change. 1 Hellbats will require 3 shots to kill a worker, which gives you a lot more time to react. Good job Blizzard! | ||
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Napoleon53
Denmark167 Posts
Seems like it is possible to rush to cloaked banshees while expanding. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12027 Posts
On July 09 2013 16:35 Napoleon53 wrote: Hm Banshees were very strong in the early WoL days. I always wondered why the totally disappeared over time. I think this buff might be too strong. Seems like it is possible to rush to cloaked banshees while expanding. Most of it is because of HoTS. Widow mines one shot banshees and everyone opened hellbats. Protoss has easier detection (Stargate or Robo) so unless he goes 4 gate doesn't outright die like they did in WoL if they didn't get a robo and Zerg have the best early game AA in the game (queens/no evo spores). That's mostly why I believe. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
1-1-1 return vs protoss :33 Ahaha, wouldn't mind seeing if those 2 strats are viable still, would be hilarious | ||
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Qwerty85
Croatia5536 Posts
On July 09 2013 16:35 Napoleon53 wrote: Hm Banshees were very strong in the early WoL days. I always wondered why the totally disappeared over time. I think this buff might be too strong. Seems like it is possible to rush to cloaked banshees while expanding. Hots is a different game than WoL, early game changed a lot so the investment was no longer worth it. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On July 09 2013 16:38 Koshi wrote: Great, if I learned anything from Hellbats and Widow mine drops it is to build spores. Which helps against these banshees as well. Now at least both parties will have to spend a good amount of apm on the early harass. Believe it or not, but hellbat drops actually require quiet a lot of babysitting if you want to deal damage and be successful and it gets harder the higher level you get-_- People would realize if they would actually try to play the other race. | ||
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gobbledydook
Australia2605 Posts
On July 09 2013 16:12 GulpyBlinkeyes wrote: I personally hate defending against banshees, but I appreciate what it seems like Bliz is trying to do. The cloak cost reduction isn't that huge, but if it nudges people toward a greater diversity of openings, then I'm all for it. Take a few moments to imagine what a cannon rush would look like if the protoss didn't need to build a forge before building cannons. Well...I would go 9 proxy pylon 11 cannon lol and there would be nothing the opponent can do | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12027 Posts
On July 09 2013 16:37 Pandemona wrote: Gogo 2 port banshee all ins vs Zerg :333333 1-1-1 return vs protoss :33 Ahaha, wouldn't mind seeing if those 2 strats are viable still, would be hilarious I wouldn't say hilarious, I'd more say it'd make the game more interesting. Currently there isn't an early game all in to do vs toss and same against zerg I'd say unless you proxy 3 rax or something. | ||
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AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
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iEatWoofers
Switzerland108 Posts
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On July 09 2013 17:02 AxionSteel wrote: haha, hilarious how there's been at least 3 or 4 people in this thread saying Innovation will disappear now. Ignore the perfect mechanics and godly micro, his success is simply down to HPM. It's always the answer! Well, he did lose to jaedong.... + Show Spoiler + heh | ||
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xxxKagexxx
France43 Posts
On July 09 2013 16:49 gobbledydook wrote: Well...I would go 9 proxy pylon 11 cannon lol and there would be nothing the opponent can do mmm intersting point of view so i'll stop cry on terran unit detection if we doesn't need ebay to build turret that's would make thing balance vs dt | ||
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xxxKagexxx
France43 Posts
On July 09 2013 16:35 Napoleon53 wrote: Hm Banshees were very strong in the early WoL days. I always wondered why the totally disappeared over time. I think this buff might be too strong. Seems like it is possible to rush to cloaked banshees while expanding. LOL seems that u learn about fast expand is a strat powerfull ? | ||
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