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Quoting myself because it was lost in the chaos. Anyone have thoughts on my build time suggestion?
On July 09 2013 06:14 OatmeeL wrote:
Hellbat nerf is good, although i think 19+11 would probably be better so hellbats can still 2shot lings regardless of +1 carapace, but that's a minor issue.
For banshees, this doesn't change the fact that they suck against the other races regardless.
Protoss: nexus cannon, standard robo openings, and detection on stargate which makes phoenixes (aka the banshee terminators) = what's the point?
Zerg: i believe 4 queens are standard? Or 5? Queens are decent against banshees, and with transfuse it makes the terran feel silly for investing several hundred gas and delayed mediavcs to take energy off queens and forcing spores. Spores no longer need evo. Hell, even overlord speed is cheaper so overseers w/ speed should never lose sight of a cloaked banshee. Once mutas come out, banshees become gift baskets.
TvT, i can see them being more annoying, but with widow mines and 1 turret per mineral line, I'm not so sure it's actually going to be an issue...
I would much, much rather see a build time decrease (like 10 seconds) so it's actually viable to make them in the midgame (remember that making banshees with your starport means its not making 2 medivacs at a time, and medivacs are pretty good.)
Knowledge bomb: Banshees take 60 seconds to build. 60 goddam seconds. A void ray takes 60 seconds, but can be chronoboosted to take 50 with 1 chrono or 40 with 2. A CARRIER can be chronoed just once and build quicker than 2 banshees. Immortals build in 55s without chrono. Ultralisks build in 55. I could go on and on, but basically in terms of build time (not cost), banshees are just sad.
tldr banshees should build quicker, not cloak research buff
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On July 09 2013 12:08 Kim Hyuna wrote:
1/1/1 mass cloak banshee incoming.
This displeases me greatly, but at least 1/1/1 isn't so strong in HotS (thanks nexus cannon).
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Nice! I'm going to be able to start laddering again after this fix I think.
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On July 09 2013 12:20 althaz wrote:This displeases me greatly, but at least 1/1/1 isn't so strong in HotS (thanks nexus cannon).
It doesn't matter whether it's in HOTS or WOL.
The non tech-lab factory siege tank research w/ banshee cloak buff is enough to go for a quick 1/1/1 which makes nexus cannon pretty useless. (note: nexus cannon can only delay the push once, you will not have enough energy for second one)
Containing FE protoss with siege tanks/marines while cloaked banshee harass in main.
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1138 Posts
On July 09 2013 10:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 10:47 TeslasPigeon wrote:On July 09 2013 10:44 Plansix wrote:On July 09 2013 10:41 Rhaegal wrote:
why not just make tanks 2 supply? or do extra vs shields Because then Terran would be broken? How so? Vipers have blinding cloud which render tanks useless. Protoss have immortals, carriers, voids, and storm. Because that a massive buff and the game is pretty well balanced right now. Why break something that isn't broken? I like immortals, but I don't want them to 2 suppy and beat all ground units.
Tanks are broken in the sense that they're utterly underwhelming. Making the Immortal 2 supply is different because it's already one of the most effective, powerful, and easiest to use units in the game with no apparent drawbacks like sacrificing mobility.
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On July 09 2013 12:20 althaz wrote:This displeases me greatly, but at least 1/1/1 isn't so strong in HotS (thanks nexus cannon).
If you meant 1/1/1 is completely dead and will continue to remain so in HOTS (thanks nexus cannon) then right on!
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Pretty freaking good changes imo. I like both.
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On July 09 2013 08:56 xxxKagexxx wrote:
i don't love this, to my point of view, it will just change tvt match up. For me it seems like they remove one unit to the game hellbat are useless late game.
we'll never seen anymore any hellbat now. i was hoping they will gave to terran unit detection earlier then
raven but they really don't care about that.
Scans and Missile turrets both available before raven,
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On July 09 2013 04:05 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +I meant June. And aligulac is quite horrid and not accepted by anyone. TLPD is much more accurate. TLPD current top five: Sen Stephano Socke M00nGLade Nerchio Aligulac current top five: INoVation Life MVP Polt Hyun Anyone who "accepts" that TLPD is somehow more accurate is probably on meth. Does anyone on earth really believe that if the TLPD top 5 played the Aligulac top 5 that they wouldn't be utterly stomped? Because if so, I've got this awesome bridge for sale.
Lol, I hope youre joking with this comparison..
That is obviously the top 5 players in the world for Aligulac and the top 5 foreigners for TLPD...
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This patch seems reasonable enough. GG for now Blizzard
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^^ The top 5 was also a foreigner WOL rating. I remember looking at it wondering how the likes of Sen and Moonglade were up there without being in any tourneys at all (was a while ago), but it was for WoL.
Anyway, changes look interesting. Will be curious to see what happens in TvT with banshees etc.
Will have to get some last minute hellbat drops in before they're nerfed!
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but TvT is balanced 50% 50%
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Instead of damage change, I think its a lot better to research the tranform for hellbats. The only way to get a hellbat is making a hellion first, then tranform them to hellbats.
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They should add an upgrade that can be researched at the factory for the tank that allows in to do extra damage versus shields (call it something like sledgehammer rounds). I think that would go a long way to helping mech in TvP, and would also mean that you'd have the means and motivation to actually research the blue flame upgrade in the MU.
In the current meta though, I feel like fitting the BF upgrade into bio play in TvP will we next to impossible. To sacrifice not only the amount of gas required for the upgrade, but also the ability to make two HB at a time versus one, will leave the Terran far to susceptible to a 12:00-13:00 gateway collosi push from the Protoss. It's already hard to begin fitting in vikings before the collosi get there, gas wise, and with the MSC making any kind of drop harass that much more difficult, Protoss should have no problem hitting that timing window on a consistent basis.
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Seems to me, they are trying to change how the game look more than to balance it. This is like ' oh we see too many hellbat now let use banshee instead'.
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Some thoughts
Alltogether, I don't mind the change that much, but I think the following will happen:
TvZ won't be affected that much. The initial hellbat drops are weaker, but if you drop more than 2, it doesn't matter at all.
TvP while I belief that the hellbat was no problem (in terms of early drops) against Protoss to begin with an that it can be seen at the highest level as well, I believe Terran needs the massive damage of the hellbat against a strategy such as the 2-2 archon/zealot timing. A simple wall off in most cases is not enough to stop it and it was very strong even against hellbats mixed in. The easiest way to hold it off, was a hellbat opener to begin with so you have a good hellbat c ount when it hits. I don't know it it will play out, but it certainly could be problematic.
TvT - I cannot decide wether I dislike cloak banshee play or hellbat play more, but I tend to say I dislike cloak banshee more. Its such a strong unit and with 100/100 it can now be played with an gas first (1 gas , I believe) or 2 gas not fully saturated. I am very curious in how it will play out, but I personally hate it.
In addition to that, I am 100% certain that the following will happen: Zergs and Protoss as well as Terran will play more greedy again (even more than now) and keep losing to hellbats etc, until they realize they still need defence etc. =.=
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On July 09 2013 12:55 DemigodcelpH wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 10:50 Plansix wrote:On July 09 2013 10:47 TeslasPigeon wrote:On July 09 2013 10:44 Plansix wrote:On July 09 2013 10:41 Rhaegal wrote:
why not just make tanks 2 supply? or do extra vs shields Because then Terran would be broken? How so? Vipers have blinding cloud which render tanks useless. Protoss have immortals, carriers, voids, and storm. Because that a massive buff and the game is pretty well balanced right now. Why break something that isn't broken? I like immortals, but I don't want them to 2 suppy and beat all ground units. Tanks are broken in the sense that they're utterly underwhelming. Making the Immortal 2 supply is different because it's already one of the most effective, powerful, and easiest to use units in the game with no apparent drawbacks like sacrificing mobility.
That Immortals can't shoot up is a pretty apparent drawback in my eyes. 
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Another sc2 "champion" dethroned by patch
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On July 09 2013 15:14 Candramelekh wrote:
Another sc2 "champion" dethroned by patch
He is a champion without quotes, and Innovation does a bit more than only hellbat drops.
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forget what about i said pls i'm not gm sry for comment this....
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EPT
