EPTBalance patch this week - Hellbats nerfed, Banshees buffed…
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HardlyNever
United States1258 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Without the upgrade. But Zealots still trade like crap with Hellbats on mass due to the AOE. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11087 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:53 Plansix wrote: Without the upgrade. But Zealots still trade like crap with Hellbats on mass due to the AOE. Plus now terrans have an incentive to get this upgrade for later in the game or differentiating hellbat heavier styles. Bit unsure about the cheap banshee cloaking. I feel pretty strongly like it's a mistake making that force multiplier so cheap but we'll see. At least they didn't muck up the timing. I think that the Banshee's big problem is not that it isn't a very effective platform for harass but that other options just do the job so much better and fit into the medivac marine path. edit: The BW analogies about learning are misguided. A lot of time was figuring out how to play RTS with BW. We have that knowledge know in SC2. Additionally, judging by the number and frequency of patching throughout the life of SC2 atleat blizzard agrees their game hasn't been finished at any point in time. | ||
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effecto
France142 Posts
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On July 09 2013 03:01 Bagi wrote: Bio into air and mech into air are both viable transitions, bio into mech will never happen. Back in 2001-2002, BW pros would've agreed with you. Yet at the end of its professional life, BW showed that completely radical new strategies that weren't possible before because of a lack of understanding not only could, but did happen. Bio into mech became so strong that pretty much any Z that wasn't Jaedong or Soulkey died to it more than they held it off/won games. There's still another entire expansion that's unknown and all the understanding of how the game works that will come with years of constant playing and scrutinizing. Its rather foolish to use the word "never" ever. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:53 Plansix wrote: Without the upgrade. But Zealots still trade like crap with Hellbats on mass due to the AOE. Proof? It's something to test, and could be the case, but I haven't seen it yet. 9 shots is a lot... | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:59 Ghanburighan wrote: Proof? It's something to test, and could be the case, but I haven't seen it yet. 9 shots is a lot... If there are marines behind the hellbats then the zealots will still lose badly. If it is mech then things might be very different, but mech play would always get the upgade anyway. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46203 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:59 Ghanburighan wrote: Proof? It's something to test, and could be the case, but I haven't seen it yet. 9 shots is a lot... Maybe so, but that problem is only for the two minutes more needed to get the upgrade to original hellbat damage, right? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:59 Ghanburighan wrote: Proof? It's something to test, and could be the case, but I haven't seen it yet. 9 shots is a lot... They both do the same amount of damage, except that zealots do it with two hit(9 damage, twice) and the Hellbat does it in an AOE. It means that is all about the angle, but multiple hellbats can hit a several zealots per shot, while a single zealot can only work on a single hellbat. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
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dNa
Germany591 Posts
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MoreFaSho
United States1427 Posts
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On July 09 2013 06:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Maybe so, but that problem is only for the two minutes more needed to get the upgrade to original hellbat damage, right? It's not quite that simple. Generally you could just move the factory to a reactor, and start pushing out hellbats. Now you need to first find 175 gas in your build, pushing the timing further. Then you do the research. And then you start reactored hellbat production. The timing is not just two minutes. | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24604 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:57 sCCrooked wrote: Back in 2001-2002, BW pros would've agreed with you. Yet at the end of its professional life, BW showed that completely radical new strategies that weren't possible before because of a lack of understanding not only could, but did happen. Bio into mech became so strong that pretty much any Z that wasn't Jaedong or Soulkey died to it more than they held it off/won games. There's still another entire expansion that's unknown and all the understanding of how the game works that will come with years of constant playing and scrutinizing. Its rather foolish to use the word "never" ever. That's a very wise thing to say. In the end, we know very little and gameplay might change so much in the years to come. | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24604 Posts
On July 09 2013 06:03 c0sm0naut wrote: What a bad change.. This will make late game TvP incredibly difficult and hurt terran in every matchup, all for the sake of fixing a mirror-specific problem......... Zerg and Protoss players are grinning right now becuase the builds they do every game anyways already counter cloaked banshee, it's their lack of map presence, unit control, unit positioning that loses their games to hellbats.. not the unit. banshees can't punish retard Late game will be bad because you'll have to get an upgrade? | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12475 Posts
On July 09 2013 06:03 c0sm0naut wrote: This will make late game TvP incredibly difficult Lololol? Edit: yeah, what Heartland said. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On July 09 2013 06:06 Heartland wrote: Late game will be bad because you'll have to get an upgrade? yes, especially when midgame harass is incredibly weakened by the need to research one, and it's the only harass in the matchup not 100% shut down by photon overcharge.. the problem is that i now have to research an expensive upgrade for a unit i'm just making to help my composition. They aren't even good vs stalker/sentry/collosus or regular armies, only baddies that rely purely on Z Archon are they truly powerful. This change makes it so protoss just cannot be harassed by T.. | ||
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vesicular
United States1310 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:57 sCCrooked wrote: Back in 2001-2002, BW pros would've agreed with you. Yet at the end of its professional life, BW showed that completely radical new strategies that weren't possible before because of a lack of understanding not only could, but did happen. Bio into mech became so strong that pretty much any Z that wasn't Jaedong or Soulkey died to it more than they held it off/won games. There's still another entire expansion that's unknown and all the understanding of how the game works that will come with years of constant playing and scrutinizing. Its rather foolish to use the word "never" ever. Lets also not forget that BW was later "balanced" with maps as well. People tend to forget the role they play in the overall metagame. | ||
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tili
United States1332 Posts
On July 09 2013 05:47 graNite wrote: Why not 150/150? I hope the metagame shifts back to tank marine, tvt was so great to watch with it... I really dont like their approach "lets see how the players find out how to fix the meta" the high hellbat damage was clearly a problem since the beginning. I agree! The added bonus of this is that more tech labs on factories means more potential tanks :D! | ||
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