On July 09 2013 05:11 shelfofjustice wrote:
Guess TvP is back to MMM into viking ghost all day erry day. Wonder if Hellion Banshee will be any more effective than Mine dropping in TvZ. Probly not.

You do realize they just 3 shot workers now. Its not like they are bad at dropping, but the other player get an extra half a second to respond.

Adonminus

Israel543 Posts

July 08 2013 20:13 GMT

#282

It seems blizzard is reducing the cost of cloaked/invisible units in the game since detection became so easy to have.

We have dark shrine cost reduced, cloak banshee cost reduced, burrow moved to tier 1. I guess it's reasonable because it's easier to deal with cloak and harass now. And this patch specifically will revive banshee play.

Existor

Russian Federation4295 Posts

July 08 2013 20:14 GMT

#283

On July 09 2013 05:13 Plansix wrote:

Show nested quote +

You do realize they just 3 shot workers now. Its not like they are bad at dropping, but the other player get an extra half a second to respond.

Hellbats can still 2-shot workers in lategame with blue flames.

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

July 08 2013 20:15 GMT

#284

On July 09 2013 05:14 Existor wrote:

Show nested quote +

Hellbats can still 2-shot workers in lategame with blue flames.

It almost like they planed it that way and only wanted to give the races a little more time to get up some defenses before the truly scary drops hit.

Levernz

Canada50 Posts

July 08 2013 20:15 GMT

#285

My lings will still burn to death anyway

It's a good change, but i tought they were removing the healing part for the hellbats ??

Shee's & hellion's push will be even more faster. Gonna have to drop a warren asap. Sucks.

GLHF zerg's !

Sandermatt

Switzerland1365 Posts

July 08 2013 20:16 GMT

#286

I would have preferred if they removed the healing and biological. Whatever it means for gameplay, but it would make the unit more logical.

IPA

United States3206 Posts

July 08 2013 20:17 GMT

#287

I'm so bad at handling banshee attacks.

This makes me afeared.

Fus

Sweden1112 Posts

July 08 2013 20:17 GMT

#288

i like it, hellbat can still be effective if you go mech or commit heavily to it, and to compensate they give buff to another harassment tool that had became obsolete in the shades of hellbat =)

packrat386

United States5077 Posts

July 08 2013 20:18 GMT

#289

On July 09 2013 05:17 IPA wrote:
I'm so bad at handling banshee attacks.

This makes me afeared.

same here. even if I do manage to hold if off, suddenly I have 2k-2k and no larva -_-

aksfjh

United States4853 Posts

July 08 2013 20:20 GMT

#290

On July 09 2013 05:12 The_Darkness wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 09 2013 04:27 Rhaegal wrote:

On July 09 2013 04:26 aksfjh wrote:

On July 09 2013 02:33 Plansix wrote:

On July 09 2013 02:29 HTOMario wrote:

As always, we’ve been keeping a close eye on the balance of things, and have decided to address the issues concerning Terran and the Hellbat.

Here are our thoughts:

1. Hellbat drops are mainly an issue for TvT.

2. Terran isn't over performing so while nerfing Hellbats, we’d like to simultaneously push a buff to the Banshee.

3. We think seeing less Hellbat play in the early mid game is not a bad thing, as other Terran harass options are a lot more interesting to watch.

4. This change will also address any other lingering concerns we may have with Hellbats outside of TvT when it comes to early mid game.

So overall, we believe the changes we've been testing in the balance test map are solid for Hellbats:
Attack damage decreased from 18 +12 vs. light to 18.
The Infernal Pre-Igniter upgrade increases attack damage from 18 to 18 +12 vs. light.

Banshee changes on the other hand, we're planning on going ahead with just the cost reduction change only:
Cloaking Field research cost decreased from 200/200 to 100/100

Let us know if you have any feedback. We are looking to implement these changes sometime this week.

Personally I like the changes, I wish they reduced the time for blue flame though. xD I can't wait to try out the new banshees.

Its like that took the removed 100/100 from the cost of cloak from Banshees and added it to the cost of Hellbat's ability to wipe out worker lines.

The change seems fine. It gives Hellbats the late game punch they need, but they would 3 shot workers until they got the upgrade. And the banshee needed a boost. Protoss can sniff that thing out with all their new fancy scouting, so I don't see an issue.

I know, 9 pages behind the discussion, but I have an issue with this. P and Z were given omgwtf tools to shut banshees down easily, with any standard build and no deviations. There's literally no excuse to lose to them in those matchups. Even with arguably fast(er) and cheaper cloak, it's still shut down just the same.

The only reason banshees were "okay" in TvT was the amount of investment needed for hellbat drops left one vulnerable to air.

Exactly. This is a straight up nerf to TvZ and TvP. Banshees will remain worthless.

You'll need to wait and see what the KESPA guys can do with cheap cloak. I recall Fantasy using cloaked banshees pretty effectively against P in the GSL and I can imagine Ty putting this to good use as well. If there is one thing you can be certain of when balance changes are made, it's that TL forum posters generally have no idea how much of an impact they will have on top level pro play and most people's knee jerk reactions are usually way, way off base.

Don't hold your breath. Banshees are no harder to hold off now than they used to be.

KristofferAG

Norway25712 Posts

July 08 2013 20:21 GMT

#291

Man, I should've delayed that LR grudgematch a couple days till after these changes.

I like em!

Incognoto

France10239 Posts

July 08 2013 20:21 GMT

#292

On July 09 2013 02:41 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Now that BF works for both hellions ans hellbats, researching transfo servos makes more sense. Cool change.

I don't agree, it's a useless upgrade. No need to spend 150/150 on silly upgrade (let's face it, do I care about making Hellions into Hellbats?) when i can just get an armory and get Hellbats from the get go.

Nebuchad

Switzerland12311 Posts

July 08 2013 20:22 GMT

#293

On July 09 2013 05:16 Sandermatt wrote:
I would have preferred if they removed the healing and biological. Whatever it means for gameplay, but it would make the unit more logical.

If the hellbats weren't biological they would NEVER die.

baeric

Germany649 Posts

July 08 2013 20:22 GMT

#294

I like the patch and the timing

No great tournament coming up.

SgtCoDFish

United Kingdom1520 Posts

July 08 2013 20:23 GMT

#295

On July 09 2013 05:18 packrat386 wrote:

Show nested quote +

same here. even if I do manage to hold if off, suddenly I have 2k-2k and no larva -_-

You have to bear in mind that you get spores with just a pool now; we've not really seen any banshee play since that happened. And toss gained a whole new way to detect, down a tech path that's pretty good vs banshee openers anyway.

Banshees aren't going to suddenly become super good, but they might be slightly viable now where they weren't before.

Good changes.

FreeTossCZComentary

Czech Republic143 Posts

July 08 2013 20:25 GMT

#296

On July 09 2013 05:12 Rhaegal wrote:

Show nested quote +

They could at least combine the transformation upgrade with blueflame.

That would be actually buffing hellbats.