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On July 09 2013 04:56 YourAdHere wrote:
As a Terran I haven't even played SC2 at all since the S1 finals because TvT went from my most favorite to my least favorite matchup almost over night. Hopefully Marine/Tank becomes viable again.
You'll probably still see mech with hellbats, and hellbat drops in the mid-late game, just not in the early game, so I still think you won't be playing marine/tank.
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I like both  This will help.. my drones will now live longer!
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On July 09 2013 04:55 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:52 Naphal wrote:
if they continue down this path, terran on ladder will just disappear again. LOL 1 unit gets a slight nerf and terran will disappear again? haha this is the first nerf terran has even gotten unless I am mistaken in hots.
What part about about a 40% damage reduction is "slight".
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On July 09 2013 04:55 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:52 Naphal wrote:
if they continue down this path, terran on ladder will just disappear again. LOL 1 unit gets a slight nerf and terran will disappear again? haha this is the first nerf terran has even gotten unless I am mistaken in hots.
It's the first nerf in HotS (release).
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On July 09 2013 04:58 Killmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:55 blade55555 wrote:On July 09 2013 04:52 Naphal wrote:
if they continue down this path, terran on ladder will just disappear again. LOL 1 unit gets a slight nerf and terran will disappear again? haha this is the first nerf terran has even gotten unless I am mistaken in hots. thats what they said after queen buff
I really miss pre queen buff TvZ. Those low eco/always fight games were the best.
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Good to see less hellbat drops but lategame their still uber efficient for their cost and supply...
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On July 09 2013 04:55 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:52 Naphal wrote:
if they continue down this path, terran on ladder will just disappear again. LOL 1 unit gets a slight nerf and terran will disappear again? haha this is the first nerf terran has even gotten unless I am mistaken in hots.
since CC first got figured out...I already have played 2X more zerg than either TvP or TvT on ladder in high diamond up to mid masters opponents. (200 game sample size). If terran gets worse now that we have to deal with warp prism buff, and huge hellbat nerf..could definitely see even less terrans playing like WoL.
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as long as they are still tanky, i'm good
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This would be like Blizzard nerfing the Muta directly to address muta wars in ZvZ. It makes no sense. Why not try other alternatives to make TvT less hellbat reliant?
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So won't every Terran rush for a Raven every game?
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On July 09 2013 05:02 nojok wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:58 Killmouse wrote:On July 09 2013 04:55 blade55555 wrote:On July 09 2013 04:52 Naphal wrote:
if they continue down this path, terran on ladder will just disappear again. LOL 1 unit gets a slight nerf and terran will disappear again? haha this is the first nerf terran has even gotten unless I am mistaken in hots. thats what they said after queen buff I really miss pre queen buff TvZ. Those low eco/always fight games were the best.
Yea i bet terran loved keeping the zerg from getting a third for ages. The only one on low echo was the zerg. Terran could expand without fear.
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RIP mech, this was the last chance for a tank buff before LotV. Glad to see hellbat nerf I suppose, stupid unit.
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On July 09 2013 04:50 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:50 BronzeKnee wrote:On July 09 2013 03:27 Existor wrote:On July 09 2013 03:26 farvacola wrote:
That banshee buff seems huge to me, gonna be interesting to see how it affects early game detection timings. Zergs already have spore crawlers Protoss can detetc with Stargate too, and they can support photon cannons with more damage from Nexus (or just recall Stalkers), so no problems here. Yeah I actually feel like overall this is a big nerf to Terran, and that is fine with me since I play Protoss. Protoss Stargate openers are better in PvT, and with detection and Photon Overcharge, I should have no problems with Banshees. Zerg gets Spore Crawlers anytime they want too in HOTS... Careful. this thread doesn't like it when you're against the nerf, apparently.
Only when you whine about it over and over saying the era of terran being able to play is over, provide useless stats and claim a bunch of stuff that isn't true.
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On July 09 2013 05:05 Rhaegal wrote:
This would be like Blizzard nerfing the Muta directly to address muta wars in ZvZ. It makes no sense. Why not try other alternatives to make TvT less hellbat reliant?
What else is a better thing to nerf or buff? Terran static defense is already pretty strong, and nerfing medivacs (the only other component) would be devastating to most standard terran play. I think a slight nerf to hellbats was definitely the right decision.
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I dont like this patch because it kills hellbats in the TvP matchup.
Before you could add a reactored factory around the 12-15 minute mark and pump some hellbats to mix them into the army against zealot-heavy compositions.
Now you need a techlab factory and blueflame research before they are viable, something that will probably skipped entirely in favor of some more barracks.
So we basically have old WoL TvP with strictly MMMG all over again. If not for MSC no one would notice the game had an expansion.
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On July 09 2013 05:05 Rhaegal wrote:
This would be like Blizzard nerfing the Muta directly to address muta wars in ZvZ. It makes no sense. Why not try other alternatives to make TvT less hellbat reliant?
Not really. Hellbats only got an early game nerf while their mid-game and late game potential is the same. A nerf to mutas would have been permanent across all stages of the game.
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Guess TvP is back to MMM into viking ghost all day erry day. Wonder if Hellion Banshee will be any more effective than Mine dropping in TvZ. Probly not.
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On July 09 2013 04:27 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:26 aksfjh wrote:On July 09 2013 02:33 Plansix wrote:On July 09 2013 02:29 HTOMario wrote:As always, we’ve been keeping a close eye on the balance of things, and have decided to address the issues concerning Terran and the Hellbat.
Here are our thoughts:
1. Hellbat drops are mainly an issue for TvT.
2. Terran isn't over performing so while nerfing Hellbats, we’d like to simultaneously push a buff to the Banshee.
3. We think seeing less Hellbat play in the early mid game is not a bad thing, as other Terran harass options are a lot more interesting to watch.
4. This change will also address any other lingering concerns we may have with Hellbats outside of TvT when it comes to early mid game.
So overall, we believe the changes we've been testing in the balance test map are solid for Hellbats:
Attack damage decreased from 18 +12 vs. light to 18.
The Infernal Pre-Igniter upgrade increases attack damage from 18 to 18 +12 vs. light.
Banshee changes on the other hand, we're planning on going ahead with just the cost reduction change only:
Cloaking Field research cost decreased from 200/200 to 100/100
Let us know if you have any feedback. We are looking to implement these changes sometime this week. Personally I like the changes, I wish they reduced the time for blue flame though. xD I can't wait to try out the new banshees. Its like that took the removed 100/100 from the cost of cloak from Banshees and added it to the cost of Hellbat's ability to wipe out worker lines. The change seems fine. It gives Hellbats the late game punch they need, but they would 3 shot workers until they got the upgrade. And the banshee needed a boost. Protoss can sniff that thing out with all their new fancy scouting, so I don't see an issue. I know, 9 pages behind the discussion, but I have an issue with this. P and Z were given omgwtf tools to shut banshees down easily, with any standard build and no deviations. There's literally no excuse to lose to them in those matchups. Even with arguably fast(er) and cheaper cloak, it's still shut down just the same. The only reason banshees were "okay" in TvT was the amount of investment needed for hellbat drops left one vulnerable to air. Exactly. This is a straight up nerf to TvZ and TvP. Banshees will remain worthless.
You'll need to wait and see what the KESPA guys can do with cheap cloak. I recall Fantasy using cloaked banshees pretty effectively against P in the GSL and I can imagine Ty putting this to good use as well. If there is one thing you can be certain of when balance changes are made, it's that TL forum posters generally have no idea how much of an impact they will have on top level pro play and most people's knee jerk reactions are usually way, way off base.
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I don´t like the new game.
Blizzard is making the game noob friendly for Z and P, but again nerfs Terran.
Z:
So you need Anti Air or detection as Zerg because you saw something across map? How about greeting the Oracle/DT/banshee/muta with some fresh spores...
P:
Oh my gosh, looks like i missed a dropship how about a 1500HP 20range cannon with agro on to save the day
No mobile observe in one tech route? I bet a spell for a flying harassment unit will fix that
T: Oh Stargateplay by toss, i wish i had turrets, oh all scvs gone in 10 secs.
Oh He went Dt, i rather should build an ebay ....Swoosh, next ebay...swoosh..........
I really think Hellbat drop is too strong because of the AoE and because there is not yet a way to defend without losses.
But there have been reaver-drops,too.,,,
Banshees in TvZ are a joke. If you tech up to cloak, you need 2 banshees per queen. There will be an overlord to spot 2 banshees and spores go up before there are too much casulties. Even if the spores are building in the middle of attack Z is most likely to have a lair and goes berserk on Muta to kill you for not having medevacs
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On July 09 2013 05:10 BlackPanther wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 05:05 Rhaegal wrote:
This would be like Blizzard nerfing the Muta directly to address muta wars in ZvZ. It makes no sense. Why not try other alternatives to make TvT less hellbat reliant? Not really. Hellbats only got an early game nerf while their mid-game and late game potential is the same. A nerf to mutas would have been permanent across all stages of the game.
They could at least combine the transformation upgrade with blueflame.
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EPT
