EPTJune Winrates - Page 15
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Jevity
United States67 Posts
On July 25 2013 10:20 -_- wrote: Terran needs mech to buffed PVT. And big time. Definitely. It's not so much a balance concern as the need for more variety/options in a matchup. Would the solution come down to the hardiness of terran mech units vs toss? Or adding +shield to more mech units? | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Jevity
United States67 Posts
On July 25 2013 12:26 Emzeeshady wrote: Why does mech need to be viable in TvP? It is incredibly boring to watch -_- So TvP doesn't keep you from building half your units as Terran? Variety is always nice. Also, maybe increasing the strength of tanks on Protoss would help them against all the recent strong Protoss openings. Mech's weakness against toss is how mobile, tanky, and how much damage protoss units are against mech, right? I'm not sure what the correct way to buff mech would be, but some kind of change would be nice. | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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acrimoneyius
United States983 Posts
On July 25 2013 12:26 Emzeeshady wrote: Why does mech need to be viable in TvP? It is incredibly boring to watch -_- I would argue that mech in TvP was incredibly fun to watch in BW, and to a lesser extent in SC2 (if only for the increase in viable unit compositions for Terran). Particularly because it changes the role of each race. Suddenly, protoss is pressured to be aggressive, and terran to be on the defensive. Protoss almost have too many tools to abuse mech in SC2, however. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On a more serious note, the data can be presented a lot better. Pie charts makes it kindof hard to tell the difference, and the lack of error bars makes it impossible to know if the difference is significant or not. Just adding error bars on all the data (and ditch those silly pie-charts...) with some simple estimate like square root errors would do wonders in reading the data. Nonetheless, good to see the (international at least) number pretty even. | ||
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ImperialFist
790 Posts
On July 25 2013 10:20 -_- wrote: Terran needs mech to buffed PVT. And big time. tbh that would require very specific "buffs", only acceptable change would be some kind of upgrade which gives + damage to shield to mech thors/tanks. Playing bio vs hellbat-tank in TvT is already almost as hard as playing vs the toss deatball. Don't kill bio TvT. Bio players already have to play twice as good as the mech player, don't make it completely broken. | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On July 25 2013 13:04 Emzeeshady wrote: I would be fine with a buff to mech, I just don't get why everyone wants to have turtle into 200/200 a move matches so badly. 300 supply cap please! | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On July 25 2013 23:10 ImperialFist wrote: tbh that would require very specific "buffs", only acceptable change would be some kind of upgrade which gives + damage to shield to mech thors/tanks. Playing bio vs hellbat-tank in TvT is already almost as hard as playing vs the toss deatball. Don't kill bio TvT. Bio players already have to play twice as good as the mech player, don't make it completely broken. I personally would be completely fine with Bio dying in TvT and TvP. I think the whole bio thing is incredibly boring to watch and the strength of bio just feels completely wrong. The fact that a 50 mineral, 1 supply unit is the best thing Terran has is disgusting and shows the flawed, shallow design of the race as a whole. If we want a deeper, richer experience with anything involving Terran in SC2, the marine needs to get less good and mech units need to have better options to deal with things like blink stalkers and immortals. Right now, the entire race hinges on the viability of the Marine vs everything else. Why is it ok for Terran to be so non-dynamic while we see multiple composition changes through any decent game from the other races? Terran never stops making Marines in ANY MU right now, and with good reason, it's the best thing they've got. That's a problem... | ||
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habeck
1120 Posts
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On July 25 2013 23:43 habeck wrote: Lol, marine is good unit, why change that Because 1) It's the ONLY good unit for Terran. 2) that's the problem. There isn't much room to change the way the race works with how good the Marine currently is. If you were to all of a sudden add +20 damage vs armored to Siege Tanks in Siege mode, Terran would likely become unstoppable because they could sit on their already existing bio strength and just siege down bases all day without any realistic threat from anything. That would be adding a huge new strength to an already viable race (though boring). If you make Marines just as flexible, but less strong, or just as strong, but less flexible, you give room to radically change other aspects of the race as a whole. The problem right now is the Marine is a giant ass band-aid on a broken race. Got a problem? MAKE MORE MARINES!!! Opponent counter your marines? MAKE MORE MARINES!!! You're behind? MAKE MORE MARINES!!! It's fucking stupid... | ||
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ImperialFist
790 Posts
On July 25 2013 23:54 Jermstuddog wrote: Because 1) It's the ONLY good unit for Terran. 2) that's the problem. There isn't much room to change the way the race works with how good the Marine currently is. If you were to all of a sudden add +20 damage vs armored to Siege Tanks in Siege mode, Terran would likely become unstoppable because they could sit on their already existing bio strength and just siege down bases all day without any realistic threat from anything. That would be adding a huge new strength to an already viable race (though boring). If you make Marines just as flexible, but less strong, or just as strong, but less flexible, you give room to radically change other aspects of the race as a whole. The problem right now is the Marine is a giant ass band-aid on a broken race. Got a problem? MAKE MORE MARINES!!! Opponent counter your marines? MAKE MORE MARINES!!! You're behind? MAKE MORE MARINES!!! It's fucking stupid... marines not so good vs mass collosi-archon-storm, not so good vs infestor-mass ultra and not so good vs mass-tank with a hellbat buffert. You're making marines out to be something they aren't. | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On July 26 2013 00:16 ImperialFist wrote: marines not so good vs mass collosi-archon-storm, not so good vs infestor-mass ultra and not so good vs mass-tank with a hellbat buffert. You're making marines out to be something they aren't. In all of those situations you just listed, do you EVER see pro players STOP making marines? Cuz I don't. They keep chugging them right out because 1) they will likely be cost-effective ANYWAY considering they only cost minerals, and 2) there aren't really any other options available. The question is never "should I make marines or not?" The answer there is always a YES! The question is simply "how many marines do I want in this composition?" Because having too many is just as bad as having too few, but you should ALWAYS have SOME. | ||
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pmp10
3374 Posts
On July 25 2013 23:28 Jermstuddog wrote: I personally would be completely fine with Bio dying in TvT and TvP. Then you should have seen some of the more desperate mech attempts at TvP back in HotS beta. Splitting daybreak with planetaries and waiting for protoss to starve was the most successful application. I'm all for variety but mech TvP is too badly broken to be fixed and deliver entertaining games. Especially since Blizzards attempts to help it have back-fired so far. We should focus our attention more on mech TvZ as that can still be salvaged. | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
On July 25 2013 23:54 Jermstuddog wrote: Because 1) It's the ONLY good unit for Terran. 2) that's the problem. There isn't much room to change the way the race works with how good the Marine currently is. If you were to all of a sudden add +20 damage vs armored to Siege Tanks in Siege mode, Terran would likely become unstoppable because they could sit on their already existing bio strength and just siege down bases all day without any realistic threat from anything. That would be adding a huge new strength to an already viable race (though boring). If you make Marines just as flexible, but less strong, or just as strong, but less flexible, you give room to radically change other aspects of the race as a whole. The problem right now is the Marine is a giant ass band-aid on a broken race. Got a problem? MAKE MORE MARINES!!! Opponent counter your marines? MAKE MORE MARINES!!! You're behind? MAKE MORE MARINES!!! It's fucking stupid... Bro how many games have you played as terran and that has worked? What Professional have you seen play this strategy and its worked? LOL I'd like to live in this seemingly Terran perfect world you are describing where you can just mass marines and win hahahahaah If so I'd be in WCS fighting Soulkey for the title hahahahaha. This game is very dynamic and you defly can't just mass marines and win unless your opponent doesn't play anything that counters them the same way it would be if you were zerg ( Which I'm assuming you were otherwise you wouldn't be complaining about marines ) mass zerglings only vses marauder only hahaha | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On July 25 2013 23:28 Jermstuddog wrote: I personally would be completely fine with Bio dying in TvT and TvP. I think the whole bio thing is incredibly boring to watch and the strength of bio just feels completely wrong. The fact that a 50 mineral, 1 supply unit is the best thing Terran has is disgusting and shows the flawed, shallow design of the race as a whole. If we want a deeper, richer experience with anything involving Terran in SC2, the marine needs to get less good and mech units need to have better options to deal with things like blink stalkers and immortals. Right now, the entire race hinges on the viability of the Marine vs everything else. Why is it ok for Terran to be so non-dynamic while we see multiple composition changes through any decent game from the other races? Terran never stops making Marines in ANY MU right now, and with good reason, it's the best thing they've got. That's a problem... Well, if we want Terrans to be able to change their comps like there other 2 races, we would have to redo the whole production infrastructure. Zergs actually make the most 'transitions' but it is because their production is the most flexible. Also, it is not the marines themselves, medivacs are actually what makes the marines tick. | ||
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woopr
United States112 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 26 2013 02:16 woopr wrote: Blizzard should make tanks 2 supply at least as a first step. Thats just what we need, 40 tanks on 80 supply. I am sure no game will ever become stale or slow with that many tanks. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On July 26 2013 02:18 Plansix wrote: Thats just what we need, 40 tanks on 80 supply. I am sure no game will ever become stale or slow with that many tanks. Nothing forces you to nap while your Terran opponent spends 10 minuts building a 5k gas army from 4 Factories. | ||
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