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SC2 Power Rank - June 2013 - Page 14

Forum Index > SC2 General
866 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 44 Next All
hansonslee
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States2027 Posts
June 05 2013 04:11 GMT
#261
SK definitely deserved that championship because of his adaptability. Also, he had Flash as a practice partner. But Innovation's play is powerful but not invincible. He also didn't play a practice partner who plays like SK. VAlso, Innovation can crush his opponents while SK takes his time to dissect and exploit his opponent's weaknesses.

But time will tell, if the brawny of Innovation or the mind of SK will prevail.

BUT I completely agree with the IM players. Their play is just not very convincing, although I can respect MVP's brain.
Losira's play is just very uncomfortable to watch. His decision making can be subpar and his mechanics aren't that noteworthy.
Seed's # 1 fan!!! #ForVengeance
FakeDeath
Profile Joined January 2011
Malaysia6060 Posts
June 05 2013 04:11 GMT
#262
On June 05 2013 13:05 yrt123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2013 12:51 FakeDeath wrote:
What?

Soulkey fumbled to a championship?
Did I seriously just heard this?
And comparing him to Jiakji,Seed.
lol.

SK has been consistently performing well in GSL pre-HotS( 2 times Ro8) and during HotS.
If you look at his track record, SK has been steadily improving.

0-3 to 4-3 against best RTS player of all-time.
Yup, He clearly fumbled his way to a championship.

The amount of bias is just meh.


I'm a Soulkey fan but I do feel he sort of fumbled into the finals when he should have went into it cleanly. Both times against Parting and sOs he had them against the ropes and made some stupid mistakes that allowed them to tie up the series. Watching those games live made me question his ability somewhat. These games make me question whether he is really championship material. He proved himself in the finals but I am not too sure he could have done it against someone who was more experienced than Innovation. I hope he can win at the WCS Finals in a more convincing fashion. That will purge any doubts anyone has of him.

Can't tell if you're serious about best RTS player of all-time.. best RTS player of all-time does not lose from a 3-0 lead in a bo7 when he is in his prime.


The best RTS player of all time was just an exaggeration.
Play your best
Pwnzer
Profile Joined June 2011
United States617 Posts
June 05 2013 04:16 GMT
#263
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! So excited that this will be a feature again. I am a little disappointed to not see Flamewheels icon in this thread somewhere. : (

I am actually shocked that some of you are complaining that Hero is on this list. If you've been paying attention to proleague you'd see that right now he can toe to toe with almost anyone in Korea and give them a run for their money. Also, the dude just won WCS NA! That combined with other team leauge wins...he definitely deserves a spot. MVP will be there again guys, just give him time, but he shouldn't be ahead of Hero yet.
Herp Derp
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
June 05 2013 04:17 GMT
#264
On June 05 2013 11:56 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2013 11:46 Holgerius wrote:
Power Rank-discussions... oh how I used to love this. ^____________^

Don't care enough about SC2 to get involved though, but it's still fun to read. :D


It's okay, just tell me how Chelsea is going to do next season now that Mourinho is back?

Lemme put it like this; choo choo, here comes the rape train! :D I fully expect him to make Chelsea a majestic team again.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
FrodaN
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
754 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-05 04:22:41
June 05 2013 04:21 GMT
#265
Soulkey's consistency is outrageous. Ro8 > Ro4 > GSL Champion.

Series against teammates tend to be funky in general due to mindception meta-countering so I kinda disregard that series against sOs.

I'm convinced that his muta style ZvT is unbeatable on expansive maps with counter attacks (Whirlwind, Daybreak, etc). Wish he could've shown it more in the finals because he would've wrecked Innovation a couple times.

That said, I agree with the rankings for the most part lol. Thought about Symbol being lower but again his consistency in GSL is quite ridiculous.

Zest is overrated.

Great write up
Hoyification
Profile Joined November 2012
United States6 Posts
June 05 2013 04:24 GMT
#266
next time Kane will be on this listing!
i was off getting a poptart
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-05 04:30:44
June 05 2013 04:28 GMT
#267
On June 05 2013 13:11 hansonslee wrote:
SK definitely deserved that championship because of his adaptability. Also, he had Flash as a practice partner. But Innovation's play is powerful but not invincible. He also didn't play a practice partner who plays like SK. VAlso, Innovation can crush his opponents while SK takes his time to dissect and exploit his opponent's weaknesses.

But time will tell, if the brawny of Innovation or the mind of SK will prevail.

BUT I completely agree with the IM players. Their play is just not very convincing, although I can respect MVP's brain.
Losira's play is just very uncomfortable to watch. His decision making can be subpar and his mechanics aren't that noteworthy.


?

Losira's mechanics are incredible. He just plays totally retarded at times and seems to just enjoy being unorthodox. Like when he played that legendary series against Gumiho. At first his mass queen/ultra style was really cool, then it just got silly when he STILL wouldn't transition to broods and started upgrading neural parasite to steal medivacs...
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
DeathProfessor
Profile Joined March 2012
United States1052 Posts
June 05 2013 04:29 GMT
#268
Please don't make us not have nice things, disagree at will but don't give psychotic hate to the creators, this is for fun don't spoil it!

I agree with Hero at #10 he is in the top 3 Protoss IMHO when he is not in some weird stress situation like Proleague and his team is down 3-1 and he HAS to win kinda shit. Rain > Hero > Parting > MC > Whitera (just for fun I can't think of another Protoss I even like)
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
June 05 2013 04:32 GMT
#269
On June 05 2013 13:09 Myrddraal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2013 12:55 takingbackoj wrote:
On June 05 2013 12:35 LighT. wrote:
On June 05 2013 12:27 takingbackoj wrote:
On June 05 2013 12:14 LighT. wrote:
On June 05 2013 12:09 Splynn wrote:
On June 05 2013 11:44 takingbackoj wrote:
On June 05 2013 11:41 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 05 2013 11:40 takingbackoj wrote:
On June 05 2013 11:37 GolemMadness wrote:
[quote]

No, it isn't. What if they played another series afterwards and Innovation won? Now are they suddenly equal? A ton of different factors go into who wins a series. Skill, nerves, luck, race match up, help with preparation, etc. Saying that one player is just automatically better because he won a single deciding game is just ridiculous.

No they wouldn't be equal. Innovation would be better because he didn't lose to him. Thats how sports work. If the Heat win the finals it would be a rough road to hoe to claim the Spurs were better.


So what you're saying is that when Soulkey wins a series, he's the better player, but then if they play another series afterwards and Innovation wins, suddenly he's the better player? Do you not realise that this logic makes zero sense?

Am I in an alternate world or something. That sounds incredibly logical to me. If x beats y then x is better. If y beats x then y is better. Am I missing something here?


Yea you are missing something here.

Let's say that there are two players playing against each other, a zerg and a terran (we'll call them Zerg and Terran). Zerg wins, and barely. According to you, that makes him better. But what if Zerg is really bad at zvp and zvz, and Terran is really good in all his other matchups?

What if styles are just weird in this matchup, and Zerg can beat Terran, but has a really poor record otherwise? Say that Zerg, outside of this matchup, has a 40% win ratio, and Terran has a 75% win ratio? The better player is obviously Terran here, even if he did just lose to Zerg.

A heads up game doesn't decide who the better player is. Introduce Protoss. He beats Zerg. But Terran beats him! Now who's the best player out of the three? Obviously Protoss! He beat Zerg, who was the better player beforehand. Which means that Terran is now the best player, because he beat Protoss! And off we go into Wonderland.

It can't work that way.

The better example would be.
Let's say Soulkey and Innovation played in the SPL.
And then the following day in the GSL.

So let's say Soulkey beat Innovation in the Ace Match. According to takingbackoj's logic, Soulkey is the better player.
Then the following day, Innovation beat Soulkey in the GSL. In a span of a day, now according to takingbackoj's logic, Innovation is the better player. See how flawed it is?

When you take into consideration who's the "Better" player, you have to take into consideration variance, sample size and how they fair against the rest of the competition.

As for the NBA comparison...hmm the better example would be..
Charlotte Bobcats vs Miami Heat in a home/home series.
Miami demolishes Charlotte @ Miami. So Miami is the better team.
The next night, Charlotte beats Mami. So now Charlotte is all of a sudden the better of the two?


Well this is my basic thought process here. When ranking players or teams or whatever, you go with the evidence presented. If someone beats someone else in a competition, I will weigh that heavier than what those two opponents did elsewhere particularly if its a best of 7 series and particularly if the winner also won the finals or its equivalent.

Im not just looking at that one series though. Im looking at the fact that Soulkey beat other top opponents on the way. Im looking at how Soulkey commonly competes and often times beats other top tier players as well. In my opinion, there is no better litmus test than heads up. That is the closest thing their is to deciding whos better. Is it full proof? No but is it better than assessing their other matches and pretty much guessing which one has beat better players.

To put it more plainly, if someone tells me David beat Jeff at SC2 but lost to Eric, im going to assume Eric is better than David regardless of Jeffs talent. When asking yourself who is better in any competition aren't you really asking who would win between the two? Soulkey won in a best of 7. That might not tell the whole story but that is pretty damning evidence to support Soulkey being better and for me to believe otherwise, I would have to see equally damning evidence to dispute it.

On 5-4 record of Innovation and Soulkey, can you really boldly state and have the majority agree with you that Soulkey is clearly the better of the two, especially when there's a 1 win difference?

The whole x beat y but lose to z, so z > y is flawed.
Flash has a better head to head vs Innovation AND Soulkey.
Life has the better head to head vs Flash.
Innovation has the better head to head vs Life.
And Soulkey has the better head to head vs Innovation.
partinG has the better head to head vs Flash

According tho this..it would be..
Parting > Flash > Soulkey > Innovation > Life > Flash...you end up back in square 1
hmm...

There is no clear "x beat y but lost to z, so z > y" going on here. It's more tier based.

Well like I said, what argument for Innovation being better should outweigh his loss to Soulkey? Shouldn't heads up and major tournament wins be the most important values when judging which player is better than another? Soulkey has him on both in HotS. Is he definitely better than Innovation? No, can't ever be 100% positive. But if you wanted to go that route then you can't be 100% sure any player is better than any other player really.

Soulkey has the major tournament win, he beat Innovation heads up in a best of 7 on the way. Innovation has a better pro league record and won more maps on his way to losing WCS KR, the same WCS KR that Soulkey won. I mean weighing those facts, I think Soulkey has earned the top spot.


No matter which route you take it doesn't make it a 100% accurate indicator of who is better. You are entitled to your opinion that Soulkey should be number one but so are the writers in putting him at number two.

Pretty much summed up my thoughts.
Good post.
godlover
Profile Joined June 2013
United States2 Posts
June 05 2013 04:38 GMT
#270
polt is #1 NA, overall he's just a scrub compared to the top koreans.
Flash, the savior of the human race.
Kitai
Profile Joined June 2012
United States878 Posts
June 05 2013 04:40 GMT
#271
SC2 gets power rankings! Yay!

I mostly agree with these, but I really feel as though Life should be ahead of Symbol and RorO. That kid is still incredibly scary. And honestly, I don't believe that Soulkey deserves to be so high. Top 10 for sure, but not number 2. Good choice with Innovation #1.
"You know, I don't care if soO got 100 second places in a row. Anyone who doesn't think that he's going to win blizzcon watching this series is a fool" - Artosis, Blizzcon 2014 soO vs TaeJa
Pwnzer
Profile Joined June 2011
United States617 Posts
June 05 2013 04:42 GMT
#272
On June 05 2013 13:40 Kitai wrote:
SC2 gets power rankings! Yay!

I mostly agree with these, but I really feel as though Life should be ahead of Symbol and RorO. That kid is still incredibly scary. And honestly, I don't believe that Soulkey deserves to be so high. Top 10 for sure, but not number 2. Good choice with Innovation #1.


You don't think the guy that JUST won WCS Korea and beat arguably the best player in the world doesn't deserve AT LEAST the number 2 spot? Ummmm
Herp Derp
Greenei
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany1754 Posts
June 05 2013 04:42 GMT
#273
I'm so glad that you aren't stupid enough to make SK #1 over Innovation. In every other match except the finals Innovation looked much more dominant then SK. Just look at his way to the finals. One single game really shouldn't decide that a player is better then the other.
IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA
Kitai
Profile Joined June 2012
United States878 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-05 04:45:38
June 05 2013 04:44 GMT
#274
On June 05 2013 13:42 Pwnzer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2013 13:40 Kitai wrote:
SC2 gets power rankings! Yay!

I mostly agree with these, but I really feel as though Life should be ahead of Symbol and RorO. That kid is still incredibly scary. And honestly, I don't believe that Soulkey deserves to be so high. Top 10 for sure, but not number 2. Good choice with Innovation #1.


You don't think the guy that JUST won WCS Korea and beat arguably the best player in the world doesn't deserve AT LEAST the number 2 spot? Ummmm


That's correct. Look at his path to the finals and actually watch the games. They were pretty terrible; all of the games he won were cheesy all-ins except for the last one in which Innovation made a horrible mistake and lost in about 2 seconds. The semifinals were of equally disappointing quality. I don't predict a repeat tournament win from Soulkey any time soon, and I think Flash at the very least should be ranked above him.
"You know, I don't care if soO got 100 second places in a row. Anyone who doesn't think that he's going to win blizzcon watching this series is a fool" - Artosis, Blizzcon 2014 soO vs TaeJa
mortales
Profile Joined April 2012
174 Posts
June 05 2013 04:45 GMT
#275
Soulkey is #1. He won Innovation no matter what. Because he's #1.
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
June 05 2013 04:50 GMT
#276
I predict the highest jump for the next power rank will be Life. Both Life and Flash fell down from the group of death, but Flash had SPL to shine in and Life didn't have much to shine in, so Life gets 7 and Flash gets 3. But the reality is that Life is still pretty good and possibly even the best in the world. His play vs widow mines was the first of its kind in HotS.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
June 05 2013 04:53 GMT
#277
As much as I love Mvp, he definitely doesn't deserve a top 10 spot and I'm glad he was left off. His play was terrible at the very end of WoL and in HotS he hasn't proven himself against top competition yet. Beating up foreigners is nice and all but not worthy of consideration when talking about who's the best in the world.
FakeDeath
Profile Joined January 2011
Malaysia6060 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-05 04:56:23
June 05 2013 04:54 GMT
#278
On June 05 2013 13:50 figq wrote:
I predict the highest jump for the next power rank will be Life. Both Life and Flash fell down from the group of death, but Flash had SPL to shine in and Life didn't have much to shine in, so Life gets 7 and Flash gets 3. But the reality is that Life is still pretty good and possibly even the best in the world. His play vs widow mines was the first of its kind in HotS.


Obviously Life is still one of the best.
Youngest prodigy to win 2 GSL.
The only Royal Roader in GSL.

The saddest is that there is even less GSL season this year.
So we will see less Code S matches overall this year.
Play your best
dgwow
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1024 Posts
June 05 2013 04:55 GMT
#279
(Looks at list)

I'm ok with this
Don't let those anti-cheese advocates tell you what to do. Rush to meet life head on!
sibs
Profile Joined July 2012
635 Posts
June 05 2013 05:01 GMT
#280
Life is ranked too low, getting 2nd place on that tournament is pretty big deal, went out of GSL on group of death, on somewhat a game he won + a game on wrong gamespeed.

HerO is weird to rank, I guess you could use a bit of that TL bias and put him there.
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