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This is an indirect translation of the Korean Dailyesports's (DES) article: http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=77286
DES editorial: SPL finals makes way for LoL
Normally SPL finals will be one week after the semifinal playoffs. They leave an one-week gap because SPL finals were normally held in a big venue with tons of audience so they need to use that one week for marketing and promoting the event. And of course, teams need time to prepare the finals so they can show good games.
However, this year, DES leaks that KeSPA's schedule shows that the SPL finals are in the same week as the semifinal playoffs. The semifinals playoffs are during the weekdays and SPL finals are during the same weekend. If the semifinal playoffs are played a full BO3, then there will be even less time in between.
DES thinks that the reason of this situation is that the scheduling of SPL finals are giving its way to LoL. One week after the semifinal playoffs, there will be a LoL event that is held by Seoul's city government, and one week after that, there also will be an important LoL match. OGN is not going to have enough resources to do both at the same time. If the finals are three weeks later, then the hype will decline significantly. Therefore, KeSPA can only tighten the schedule of SPL.
But KeSPA's staff refuses that this is caused by the problems of the scheduling of television broadcast. But DES insists on their speculation and argues that in the past KeSPA always said the one-week gap is for promotion and marketing but now suddenly there is no need for promotion and no need for teams to prepare?
DES urges KeSPA to admit the problem and admit the depression of SC2 and the contraints caused by LoL, so that at least they can have some honesty and get some sympathy from fans. Otherwise, KeSPA should anticipate a SPL finals with historically smallest audience size.
translated from http://www.playsc.com/forum/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=362295&extra=page=1
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Wow, all of a sudden even more incentive for Stars to cement their number 1 spot.
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Well, it's not like last week's proleague schedule wasn't changed by LoL(as well as the timeslot change for the whole season), so there's precedence that there's a preference for LoL.
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United States33686 Posts
OGN has multiple obligations, LoL is their bigger draw by far, what ya gonna do?
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I just hope in 10 years we have all moved on from mobas.
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On May 28 2013 01:55 Eury wrote:
I just hope in 10 years we have all moved on from mobas.
Do you really? I mean imagine what kind of games would become the casual standard then. :/
Honestly though, it's really not hard to understand why OGN have made this choice, nor do I think they are to blame for it. I just hope the games will be satisfying to watch.
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On May 28 2013 01:55 Eury wrote:
I just hope in 10 years we have all moved on from mobas.
Not likely. Moba seems quite a good concept for both casual and hardcore gameplay and and also for spectator experience.
Dota and LoL are rather bad implementations with the Dota just randomly evolving out of WC3 heroes getting it accidentally rather right... and LoL copying the concept without really improving much.
Im thinking Dota as Dune2 and LoL as c&c 1 of moba's.
One day, there will be a moba that will be something between Broodwar and Starcraft2 of moba's. And it will bring progaming to mainstream.
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Well that's just sad. Never thought KeSPA would give in to LoL of all things.
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Is there a prize for being the first to guess that this thread will turn into a "Starcraft II is dying" thread?
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On May 28 2013 02:28 IcedBacon wrote:
Well that's just sad. Never thought KeSPA would give in to LoL of all things.
Did you even read the fucking article?
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smart choice by OGN considering how few people show up to SPL
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Lol event run by the city government wtf? Thats the real story in this article.
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United States33686 Posts
On May 28 2013 02:59 Sermokala wrote:
Lol event run by the city government wtf? Thats the real story in this article.
Seoul has held http://estarsseoul.org/ since 2007 as a multi discipline event
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I don't see why this is a problem at all? Or even worth a thread?
You have two events that will compete directly for viewership, you are free to schedule them whenever you like. Do you schedule them simultaneous? Or on different weekends?
What is it with people who think that because LoL is getting good viewers, SC2 is somehow in dire straights? The WCS EU finals had over 100,000 viewers. Seems to me like SC2 is doing just fine.
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No biggie, LoL is just bigger, so it's natural that SC2 has to move a little and it's not like it's being cancelled. I just hope they get a decent live viewership 
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The power of keSPA to ogn is obviously declining, even though multiple lol teams are keSPA teams.
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On May 28 2013 06:13 larse wrote:
The power of keSPA to ogn is obviously declining, even though multiple lol teams are keSPA teams.
I'd say the power of Kespa is declining and the power of OGN is rising, since OGN holds all the (LoL) cards in Korea. Kespa doesn't have any say in how the OGN LoL tournament is run.
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On May 28 2013 03:08 Acrofales wrote:
What is it with people who think that because LoL is getting good viewers, SC2 is somehow in dire straights? The WCS EU finals had over 100,000 viewers. Seems to me like SC2 is doing just fine.
Of course sc2 is doing fine worldwide, and people understand that. It just saddens people see to what has happened to starcraft in the place it was beyond massive
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
This makes sense, doesn't seem out of place to ease the load on resources.
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On May 28 2013 06:17 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 06:13 larse wrote:
The power of keSPA to ogn is obviously declining, even though multiple lol teams are keSPA teams. I'd say the power of Kespa is declining and the power of OGN is rising, since OGN holds all the (LoL) cards in Korea. Kespa doesn't have any say in how the OGN LoL tournament is run.
Oh really? Aren't a lot of lol teams KeSPA teams? Don't they have a say on teams like kt, sky, cj's teams?
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United States23455 Posts
SC2 isn't doing terribly or anything, but you can't really blame OGN.
They're selling tickets for the League finals, between $7 and $35 (could be $25), and are expected to sell out a 9,000+ seated auditorium. When you can actually sell tickets to an e-sport event and sell out the highest priced tickets in less than 20 minutes, you can't really complain when a television company decides to back that game more than one where some Proleague matches have 10% of the seats filled.
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On May 28 2013 06:41 larse wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 06:17 Dodgin wrote:On May 28 2013 06:13 larse wrote:
The power of keSPA to ogn is obviously declining, even though multiple lol teams are keSPA teams. I'd say the power of Kespa is declining and the power of OGN is rising, since OGN holds all the (LoL) cards in Korea. Kespa doesn't have any say in how the OGN LoL tournament is run. Oh really? Aren't a lot of lol teams KeSPA teams? Don't they have a say on teams like kt, sky, cj's teams?
These are sponsored teams... CJ, KT are Corp's... They choose their divisions, not kespa.
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Well, not surprising. Not many people care for Proleague anyways (based on their audience).
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On May 28 2013 06:42 mtn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 06:41 larse wrote:On May 28 2013 06:17 Dodgin wrote:On May 28 2013 06:13 larse wrote:
The power of keSPA to ogn is obviously declining, even though multiple lol teams are keSPA teams. I'd say the power of Kespa is declining and the power of OGN is rising, since OGN holds all the (LoL) cards in Korea. Kespa doesn't have any say in how the OGN LoL tournament is run. Oh really? Aren't a lot of lol teams KeSPA teams? Don't they have a say on teams like kt, sky, cj's teams? These are sponsored teams... CJ, KT are Corp's... They choose their divisions, not kespa.
Yes but KeSPA has a say in a lot of their issues in Starcraft, so I thought naturally kespa would have a say on their lol part as well.
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On May 28 2013 06:50 larse wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 06:42 mtn wrote:On May 28 2013 06:41 larse wrote:On May 28 2013 06:17 Dodgin wrote:On May 28 2013 06:13 larse wrote:
The power of keSPA to ogn is obviously declining, even though multiple lol teams are keSPA teams. I'd say the power of Kespa is declining and the power of OGN is rising, since OGN holds all the (LoL) cards in Korea. Kespa doesn't have any say in how the OGN LoL tournament is run. Oh really? Aren't a lot of lol teams KeSPA teams? Don't they have a say on teams like kt, sky, cj's teams? These are sponsored teams... CJ, KT are Corp's... They choose their divisions, not kespa. Yes but KeSPA has a say in a lot of their issues in Starcraft, so I thought naturally kespa would have a say on their lol part as well.
Riot purposely excluded Kespa from their plans for Korea. They probably think It's much easier and simpler to deal with and help OGN since they're a tournament organizer. Giving any control to Kespa wouldn't benefit them whatsoever.
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GSTL and Proleague should simply just merge. GOM and Kespa too.
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I miss the BW audiences. 
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On May 28 2013 06:58 Wildmoon wrote:
GSTL and Proleague should simply just merge. GOM and Kespa too.
That would be a boost to SC2 but looking back on BW history, from what i heard, it's not possible.
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On May 28 2013 06:54 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 06:50 larse wrote:On May 28 2013 06:42 mtn wrote:On May 28 2013 06:41 larse wrote:On May 28 2013 06:17 Dodgin wrote:On May 28 2013 06:13 larse wrote:
The power of keSPA to ogn is obviously declining, even though multiple lol teams are keSPA teams. I'd say the power of Kespa is declining and the power of OGN is rising, since OGN holds all the (LoL) cards in Korea. Kespa doesn't have any say in how the OGN LoL tournament is run. Oh really? Aren't a lot of lol teams KeSPA teams? Don't they have a say on teams like kt, sky, cj's teams? These are sponsored teams... CJ, KT are Corp's... They choose their divisions, not kespa. Yes but KeSPA has a say in a lot of their issues in Starcraft, so I thought naturally kespa would have a say on their lol part as well. Riot purposely excluded Kespa from their plans for Korea. They probably think It's much easier and simpler to deal with and help OGN since they're a tournament organizer. Giving any control to Kespa wouldn't benefit them whatsoever.
Blizzard didnt include Kespa in their plans either for Brood War. Once there are more LOL teams that are owned by KeSPA corporations, they will have the power since there can't be LOL tournaments without teams.
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damn, there goes some of the hype that normally builds around it
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On May 28 2013 06:18 Zenbrez wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 03:08 Acrofales wrote:
What is it with people who think that because LoL is getting good viewers, SC2 is somehow in dire straights? The WCS EU finals had over 100,000 viewers. Seems to me like SC2 is doing just fine. Of course sc2 is doing fine worldwide, and people understand that. It just saddens people see to what has happened to starcraft in the place it was beyond massive
Some of the best League of Legends teams are from Kespa. CJ, KT, and SKT1 have teams in the final 4 of the current OGN season.
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Looking at the number of people turning up to watch spl, I am quite concern how many would turn up for the final
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On May 28 2013 07:20 hydrogg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 06:54 Dodgin wrote:On May 28 2013 06:50 larse wrote:On May 28 2013 06:42 mtn wrote:On May 28 2013 06:41 larse wrote:On May 28 2013 06:17 Dodgin wrote:On May 28 2013 06:13 larse wrote:
The power of keSPA to ogn is obviously declining, even though multiple lol teams are keSPA teams. I'd say the power of Kespa is declining and the power of OGN is rising, since OGN holds all the (LoL) cards in Korea. Kespa doesn't have any say in how the OGN LoL tournament is run. Oh really? Aren't a lot of lol teams KeSPA teams? Don't they have a say on teams like kt, sky, cj's teams? These are sponsored teams... CJ, KT are Corp's... They choose their divisions, not kespa. Yes but KeSPA has a say in a lot of their issues in Starcraft, so I thought naturally kespa would have a say on their lol part as well. Riot purposely excluded Kespa from their plans for Korea. They probably think It's much easier and simpler to deal with and help OGN since they're a tournament organizer. Giving any control to Kespa wouldn't benefit them whatsoever. Blizzard didnt include Kespa in their plans either for Brood War. Once there are more LOL teams that are owned by KeSPA corporations, they will have the power since there can't be LOL tournaments without teams.
Riot is also 10x worse when it comes to controller their product in tournaments. If Riot doesn't want KeSPA controller the Korean LoL scene, then it simply won't happen.
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On May 28 2013 07:51 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 07:20 hydrogg wrote:On May 28 2013 06:54 Dodgin wrote:On May 28 2013 06:50 larse wrote:On May 28 2013 06:42 mtn wrote:On May 28 2013 06:41 larse wrote:On May 28 2013 06:17 Dodgin wrote:On May 28 2013 06:13 larse wrote:
The power of keSPA to ogn is obviously declining, even though multiple lol teams are keSPA teams. I'd say the power of Kespa is declining and the power of OGN is rising, since OGN holds all the (LoL) cards in Korea. Kespa doesn't have any say in how the OGN LoL tournament is run. Oh really? Aren't a lot of lol teams KeSPA teams? Don't they have a say on teams like kt, sky, cj's teams? These are sponsored teams... CJ, KT are Corp's... They choose their divisions, not kespa. Yes but KeSPA has a say in a lot of their issues in Starcraft, so I thought naturally kespa would have a say on their lol part as well. Riot purposely excluded Kespa from their plans for Korea. They probably think It's much easier and simpler to deal with and help OGN since they're a tournament organizer. Giving any control to Kespa wouldn't benefit them whatsoever. Blizzard didnt include Kespa in their plans either for Brood War. Once there are more LOL teams that are owned by KeSPA corporations, they will have the power since there can't be LOL tournaments without teams. Riot is also 10x worse when it comes to controller their product in tournaments. If Riot doesn't want KeSPA controller the Korean LoL scene, then it simply won't happen.
Riot went to KESPA and asked them to control the korean lol scene for them. It was a major part of their launch strategy when they opened the korean servers not that long ago. They also have lol free on all the pc baangs with all the champs and runes unlocked from the git go.
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On May 28 2013 02:24 rename wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 01:55 Eury wrote:
I just hope in 10 years we have all moved on from mobas. Not likely. Moba seems quite a good concept for both casual and hardcore gameplay and and also for spectator experience. Dota and LoL are rather bad implementations with the Dota just randomly evolving out of WC3 heroes getting it accidentally rather right... and LoL copying the concept without really improving much. Im thinking Dota as Dune2 and LoL as c&c 1 of moba's. One day, there will be a moba that will be something between Broodwar and Starcraft2 of moba's. And it will bring progaming to mainstream.
Blizzard Allstars? 
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Netherlands45349 Posts
They go where the viewers go, can't really blame them on this although it would somewhat be better to just admit it.
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On May 28 2013 08:09 Quakecomm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 02:24 rename wrote:On May 28 2013 01:55 Eury wrote:
I just hope in 10 years we have all moved on from mobas. Not likely. Moba seems quite a good concept for both casual and hardcore gameplay and and also for spectator experience. Dota and LoL are rather bad implementations with the Dota just randomly evolving out of WC3 heroes getting it accidentally rather right... and LoL copying the concept without really improving much. Im thinking Dota as Dune2 and LoL as c&c 1 of moba's. One day, there will be a moba that will be something between Broodwar and Starcraft2 of moba's. And it will bring progaming to mainstream. Blizzard Allstars?
The idea of blizzard making a dotaclone kinda depresses me, especially when you consider how few RTS games are out there now. SC2 is basically the only major RTS on the market right now. I'm worried that the entire genre is close to dying in favor of these aeon of strife games.
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On May 28 2013 02:24 rename wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 01:55 Eury wrote:
I just hope in 10 years we have all moved on from mobas. Not likely. Moba seems quite a good concept for both casual and hardcore gameplay and and also for spectator experience. Dota and LoL are rather bad implementations with the Dota just randomly evolving out of WC3 heroes getting it accidentally rather right... and LoL copying the concept without really improving much. Im thinking Dota as Dune2 and LoL as c&c 1 of moba's. One day, there will be a moba that will be something between Broodwar and Starcraft2 of moba's. And it will bring progaming to mainstream.
I don't think you know what you are talking about. LoL is already rather 'mainstream' with its fuck ton of players and casual to pro skill curve.
Increasing the skill and or mechanical requirement will always reduce the player base and will more likely bring a game more out of the mainstream than into it.
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I wonder if there's any pressure from Riot on this front.
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On May 28 2013 02:24 rename wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 01:55 Eury wrote:
I just hope in 10 years we have all moved on from mobas. Not likely. Moba seems quite a good concept for both casual and hardcore gameplay and and also for spectator experience. ...
I can understand that moba has an enormous appeal to casual players and it certainly has a hardcore aspect as well. However, I always wondered why people watch it. The few big explosions when opponents clash seem to be overshadowed by 30 minutes of nothingness with heroes simply farming/running around...
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On May 28 2013 10:26 ggrrg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 02:24 rename wrote:On May 28 2013 01:55 Eury wrote:
I just hope in 10 years we have all moved on from mobas. Not likely. Moba seems quite a good concept for both casual and hardcore gameplay and and also for spectator experience. ... I can understand that moba has an enormous appeal to casual players and it certainly has a hardcore aspect as well. However, I always wondered why people watch it. The few big explosions when opponents clash seem to be overshadowed by 30 minutes of nothingness with heroes simply farming/running around...
Same reductionism could be applied to a lot of matches of pro SC2. 20 minutes of macro and light harass -> lasers -> end. I watch dota and sc2 and can say there is a wide spectrum in game length and liveliness in both games.
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No surprises here given the circumstances.
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SC2 can totally survive the esports market even if it's 100x smaller than LoL, just like many other smaller esport games did. But the problem is that SC used to have this glorious past that makes people have high but unrealistic expectations for the game. More importantly, many KeSPA pros are from the glorious age, so their mentality is affected the most by this great depression which will never recover. We as SC fans used to deny LoL hard and act so elitist but now we should just drop our big ego over the game, as many already did, and enjoy the scene as it is even it's small as hell.
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This article is clearly trying to make a huge controversy appear out of nowhere. LoL is bigger than SC2 right now - I think that's clear to everyone. But even if they were equal size/importance, scheduling events for two games means that both schedules affect each other. Sure, if LoL wasn't around, SC2 would get better scheduling. But it goes the other way too - if SC2 wasn't around, LoL would get better scheduling. Probably when they come into conflict, OGN tends to give LoL priority, but one reasonably minor change to Proleague scheduling doesn't prove that.
Sad but true fact: On the internet, even more than in print, sensationalist, provocative claims get way more hits than standard reasonable journalism. And writers know that.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
i don't think you can blame OGN for this, sad as it is. business is business!
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This article is less about LoL vs SC2 and more about Proleague final being unusually squeezed in time which affects teams and viewers. It's worth discussion for sure.
For a tournament that takes so many months (almost a year) and with such history, finishing it in a hurry and not meeting its own scheduling standards seems quite unreasonable.
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On May 28 2013 09:41 Xahhk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 02:24 rename wrote:On May 28 2013 01:55 Eury wrote:
I just hope in 10 years we have all moved on from mobas. Not likely. Moba seems quite a good concept for both casual and hardcore gameplay and and also for spectator experience. Dota and LoL are rather bad implementations with the Dota just randomly evolving out of WC3 heroes getting it accidentally rather right... and LoL copying the concept without really improving much. Im thinking Dota as Dune2 and LoL as c&c 1 of moba's. One day, there will be a moba that will be something between Broodwar and Starcraft2 of moba's. And it will bring progaming to mainstream. I don't think you know what you are talking about. LoL is already rather 'mainstream' with its fuck ton of players and casual to pro skill curve. Increasing the skill and or mechanical requirement will always reduce the player base and will more likely bring a game more out of the mainstream than into it.
It can be more, as in everyone who has played a computer game has tried it at least once.
And it does not need increasing the skill/mechanical requirement - it needs raised skill/mechanical cap for solo matchmaking, and much smoother introduction for new players without bazillion runepages, heroes and items hitting you from the start ( i noped the hell away from dota2 the first time i was asked to choose a hero )
On May 28 2013 10:26 ggrrg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 02:24 rename wrote:On May 28 2013 01:55 Eury wrote:
I just hope in 10 years we have all moved on from mobas. Not likely. Moba seems quite a good concept for both casual and hardcore gameplay and and also for spectator experience. ... I can understand that moba has an enormous appeal to casual players and it certainly has a hardcore aspect as well. However, I always wondered why people watch it. The few big explosions when opponents clash seem to be overshadowed by 30 minutes of nothingness with heroes simply farming/running around...
Higher level of play has much more action. The 30 minutes of nothingness is because NA/EU teams seem to do too much solo matchmaking or soloqueue and dont practice enough with teams. Also this is where this next big moba can help.
PS, thanks everyone who told me WCS needs regional locks because they thought it works well for LCS. I had to go check it out and see it myself - and now while i still dont like playing LoL, im doing a bot-game every now and then to learn all the heroes to more appreciate just how much better korean teams are thanks to NA/EU teams living in their own regional bubble.
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I wouldnt be surprise if OGN drops SC2 1 day and gives it to SPOTV, without MSL and OSL and the WCS gets in every1's way the scheduling for broadcasting and the players are gonna be very rough.
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On May 28 2013 13:54 justiceknight wrote:
I wouldnt be surprise if OGN drops SC2 1 day and gives it to SPOTV, without MSL and OSL and the WCS gets in every1's way the scheduling for broadcasting and the players are gonna be very rough.
blizzard is giving money to OGN to avoid that scenario. in short term at least.
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On May 28 2013 13:57 xuanzue wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 13:54 justiceknight wrote:
I wouldnt be surprise if OGN drops SC2 1 day and gives it to SPOTV, without MSL and OSL and the WCS gets in every1's way the scheduling for broadcasting and the players are gonna be very rough. blizzard is giving money to OGN to avoid that scenario. in short term at least.
But I thought the entire point of the lawsuit was so that OGN and kespa would have to give money to blizzard to respect their ip? Why would they accept the complete opposite situation now? They where perfectly ok with not having sc2 on ogn when they gave gom exclusive broadcasting rights and sued them so why care so much if sc2 goes off ogn now?
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LoL professional competition has been a farce thus far. When players like Flash and Jaedong switch over to LoL, they're going to dominate everyone.
User was warned for this post
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Vancouver14381 Posts
On May 28 2013 14:01 coolcor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2013 13:57 xuanzue wrote:On May 28 2013 13:54 justiceknight wrote:
I wouldnt be surprise if OGN drops SC2 1 day and gives it to SPOTV, without MSL and OSL and the WCS gets in every1's way the scheduling for broadcasting and the players are gonna be very rough. blizzard is giving money to OGN to avoid that scenario. in short term at least. But I thought the entire point of the lawsuit was so that OGN and kespa would have to give money to blizzard to respect their ip? Why would they accept the complete opposite situation now? They where perfectly ok with not having sc2 on ogn when they gave gom exclusive broadcasting rights and sued them so why care so much if sc2 goes off ogn now?
As well as Gom is doing online, they don't broadcast to TV. Also OSL has the history and prestige that GSL doesn't quite carry in the general populace.
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Moba are maybe good games, but i can't understand why they should become the only esports games... The day where the battle for first place in esport will be between LoL and Dota 2 will be a sad day
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Well, if "someone" had not fought tooth and nail against Blizzard and had switched to the new game right away, the sc2 situation in korea migth be different now.
I have this image of a toreador in my mind holding a bull by the horn and losing ground and then he get hit by a truck. and the licence plate says lol.
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On May 28 2013 14:16 Dreadwolf wrote:
Well, if "someone" had not fought tooth and nail against Blizzard and had switched to the new game right away, the sc2 situation in korea migth be different now.
I have this image of a toreador in my mind holding a bull by the horn and losing ground and then he get hit by a truck. and the licence plate says lol.
^lol
if someone had not fought tooth and nail to kill bw in korea, there wouldn't even be a problem with starcraft being more popular than lol (maybe)
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EPT
