On May 11 2013 02:16 IPA wrote: In professional life, you can't act like a spoiled, raging child and expect your employers to deal with it. I applaud EG for treating their business like a business and not like a day care center.
IdrA -- you can be relevent without being immature (I hope). Find your path bud. Your lack of respect for the community, other players, and yourself has become painful to see. Good luck.
You are probably right about his behavior and his professionalism - this is also the reason why I'm not a fan of him.
But the first thought in my mind after reading this news was that EG took the opportunity to get rid of Idra. This is of course pure speculation from myself but he got probably as much salary as their hole Korean Proleauge-Linup with exception of JD and Idra's level and his popularity and therefore his worth for EG slowly faded away through the last year. (just look at tournament results and stream numbers) I'm pretty sure if he would still be on top of his career EG would never released him for this stuff.
This isn't an unreasonable speculation, but I think it's highly improbable.
EG doesn't have a business model that is strictly related to skill-base - they also invest in strong personalities that get exposure (i.e Geoff. "Incontrol" Robinson). Idra, though quite the opposite of Incontrol with regards to his professionalism and personality, still was able to be marketed as a "tough" guy / "badass nerd".
That image of Idra, however, is severely damaged when he openly taunted and insulted his entire viewership and customer-base. To think that Idra's viewership only consisted of die-hard fans or trolls is ridiculous - it was mostly a casual audience that wasn't heavily invested in Idra, but had disposable income and enjoyed being part of the e-sports scene. He literally told those people, who have nothing to do with any drama or anything, really, that they were all "fucks" and "sheep".
When you say something like that to your customers, it's unrecoverable. I'll reiterate that it's like owning a bakery, and every time a customer walks in you say: "You're a fat fuck, can't believe you actually buy my pastries HAHA". . . regardless of who the customer is.
Well, in one regard Idra imo isn't totally wrong. This community sometimes has a lot of "sheep". Just imagine Idra would have dominated his wcs-group as he was able to 2 years ago - he would have been the story of the week and most people wouldn't have cared about his post. But this is not entirely my point - I believe EG sees his players as most company’s would do as a sort of profit-center and I'm pretty sure, they think they can get better return of their money with other investments so they took the opportunity given and released Idra over this.
If you think Idra wasn't going to still be a valuable asset to EG, regardless of whether he won in WCS or not, I'd have to say you are out of touch. I don't think there's any way they would have released Idra if he hadn't made that statement on a public forum.
And from the press release, Alex Garfield made that point - that Idra crossed the line with the worst transgression to date. I don't think there's a conspiracy here. It's Idra's fault that he's in this position. Idra, and no one else.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Idra is a poor victim, I'm just saying I think this is as much of a business decision as it is a moral one because of his statement. And I don't think Idra is as much of an valuable asset to EG as he was - he has probably a pretty good salary, therefore he was a pretty expensive asset to EG.
Yes I can agree with these points. It probably was easier for them to justify letting him go than say, a year ago. But I think, as a business, they have to let him go whether it was yesteryear or today after a statement like that.
I just don't know how, in EG's shoes, you can justify to your sponsors one of your players calling their customers "fucks' and "sheep". That's not how Monster Energy, Razor etc etc want to be branded. And they are higher on the food chain than EG.
I disagree. I don't think for a second that they would have fired him a year or two ago for something like this. It's like people somehow have gotten amnesia of all the stupid things he's said and done before. In so many words he's called his fans, players and community members similar things many times. This must have been something that's been building up for quite some time and this was the thing that pushed it over the top.
I don't recall any time in Idra's past that he has ever stated that his entire audience are "fucks" and blatantly stated that he is deliberately manipulating them with the consent of EG in order to profit from abusive behavior.
I think there is a disconnect for most people here. Do you not realize how utterly disrespectful Idra's statement was, to not only his viewership, but also his team and Alex Garfield? The statement implied that EG was deliberately paying him to be abusive towards customers. That's isn't just crossing "the line" . . .that's launching yourself over "the line" with a cannon.
I think you really highlighted well what makes this comment from Idra different from things he has said in the past. Even though it seems similar, the way he worded it basically says, "EG condones my behavior," which really forced EG's hand.
Sure, in the past EG has tacitly supported Idra by continuing to employ him despite his BM, but they could always say, "we do not approve, and are working with him to correct his behavior" or whatever.
This time, however, Idra didn't leave them that kind of wiggle room with his statement. As long as they kept cutting him paychecks, they'd be proving him right, which is not a desirable position to be in for a business like EG.
EG was going to employ him as long as he was worth the trouble. If he was playing better his comments would have been irrelevant.
You are probably right about his behavior and his professionalism - this is also the reason why I'm not a fan of him.
But the first thought in my mind after reading this news was that EG took the opportunity to get rid of Idra. This is of course pure speculation from myself but he got probably as much salary as their hole Korean Proleauge-Linup with exception of JD and Idra's level and his popularity and therefore his worth for EG slowly faded away through the last year. (just look at tournament results and stream numbers) I'm pretty sure if he would still be on top of his career EG would never released him for this stuff.
This isn't an unreasonable speculation, but I think it's highly improbable.
EG doesn't have a business model that is strictly related to skill-base - they also invest in strong personalities that get exposure (i.e Geoff. "Incontrol" Robinson). Idra, though quite the opposite of Incontrol with regards to his professionalism and personality, still was able to be marketed as a "tough" guy / "badass nerd".
That image of Idra, however, is severely damaged when he openly taunted and insulted his entire viewership and customer-base. To think that Idra's viewership only consisted of die-hard fans or trolls is ridiculous - it was mostly a casual audience that wasn't heavily invested in Idra, but had disposable income and enjoyed being part of the e-sports scene. He literally told those people, who have nothing to do with any drama or anything, really, that they were all "fucks" and "sheep".
When you say something like that to your customers, it's unrecoverable. I'll reiterate that it's like owning a bakery, and every time a customer walks in you say: "You're a fat fuck, can't believe you actually buy my pastries HAHA". . . regardless of who the customer is.
Well, in one regard Idra imo isn't totally wrong. This community sometimes has a lot of "sheep". Just imagine Idra would have dominated his wcs-group as he was able to 2 years ago - he would have been the story of the week and most people wouldn't have cared about his post. But this is not entirely my point - I believe EG sees his players as most company’s would do as a sort of profit-center and I'm pretty sure, they think they can get better return of their money with other investments so they took the opportunity given and released Idra over this.
If you think Idra wasn't going to still be a valuable asset to EG, regardless of whether he won in WCS or not, I'd have to say you are out of touch. I don't think there's any way they would have released Idra if he hadn't made that statement on a public forum.
And from the press release, Alex Garfield made that point - that Idra crossed the line with the worst transgression to date. I don't think there's a conspiracy here. It's Idra's fault that he's in this position. Idra, and no one else.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Idra is a poor victim, I'm just saying I think this is as much of a business decision as it is a moral one because of his statement. And I don't think Idra is as much of an valuable asset to EG as he was - he has probably a pretty good salary, therefore he was a pretty expensive asset to EG.
Yes I can agree with these points. It probably was easier for them to justify letting him go than say, a year ago. But I think, as a business, they have to let him go whether it was yesteryear or today after a statement like that.
I just don't know how, in EG's shoes, you can justify to your sponsors one of your players calling their customers "fucks' and "sheep". That's not how Monster Energy, Razor etc etc want to be branded. And they are higher on the food chain than EG.
I disagree. I don't think for a second that they would have fired him a year or two ago for something like this. It's like people somehow have gotten amnesia of all the stupid things he's said and done before. In so many words he's called his fans, players and community members similar things many times. This must have been something that's been building up for quite some time and this was the thing that pushed it over the top.
I don't recall any time in Idra's past that he has ever stated that his entire audience are "fucks" and blatantly stated that he is deliberately manipulating them with the consent of EG in order to profit from abusive behavior.
I think there is a disconnect for most people here. Do you not realize how utterly disrespectful Idra's statement was, to not only his viewership, but also his team and Alex Garfield? The statement implied that EG was deliberately paying him to be abusive towards customers. That's isn't just crossing "the line" . . .that's launching yourself over "the line" with a cannon.
I think you really highlighted well what makes this comment from Idra different from things he has said in the past. Even though it seems similar, the way he worded it basically says, "EG condones my behavior," which really forced EG's hand.
Sure, in the past EG has tacitly supported Idra by continuing to employ him despite his BM, but they could always say, "we do not approve, and are working with him to correct his behavior" or whatever.
This time, however, Idra didn't leave them that kind of wiggle room with his statement. As long as they kept cutting him paychecks, they'd be proving him right, which is not a desirable position to be in for a business like EG.
EG was going to employ him as long as he was worth the trouble. If he was playing better his comments would have been irrelevant.
I agree, but IMO being worth the trouble doesn't have to do as much with bringing in good results as it has with him bringing attention to EG, which he always did.
Unfortunately he just went too far with his actions lately...
On May 11 2013 02:16 IPA wrote: In professional life, you can't act like a spoiled, raging child and expect your employers to deal with it. I applaud EG for treating their business like a business and not like a day care center.
IdrA -- you can be relevent without being immature (I hope). Find your path bud. Your lack of respect for the community, other players, and yourself has become painful to see. Good luck.
You are probably right about his behavior and his professionalism - this is also the reason why I'm not a fan of him.
But the first thought in my mind after reading this news was that EG took the opportunity to get rid of Idra. This is of course pure speculation from myself but he got probably as much salary as their hole Korean Proleauge-Linup with exception of JD and Idra's level and his popularity and therefore his worth for EG slowly faded away through the last year. (just look at tournament results and stream numbers) I'm pretty sure if he would still be on top of his career EG would never released him for this stuff.
This isn't an unreasonable speculation, but I think it's highly improbable.
EG doesn't have a business model that is strictly related to skill-base - they also invest in strong personalities that get exposure (i.e Geoff. "Incontrol" Robinson). Idra, though quite the opposite of Incontrol with regards to his professionalism and personality, still was able to be marketed as a "tough" guy / "badass nerd".
That image of Idra, however, is severely damaged when he openly taunted and insulted his entire viewership and customer-base. To think that Idra's viewership only consisted of die-hard fans or trolls is ridiculous - it was mostly a casual audience that wasn't heavily invested in Idra, but had disposable income and enjoyed being part of the e-sports scene. He literally told those people, who have nothing to do with any drama or anything, really, that they were all "fucks" and "sheep".
When you say something like that to your customers, it's unrecoverable. I'll reiterate that it's like owning a bakery, and every time a customer walks in you say: "You're a fat fuck, can't believe you actually buy my pastries HAHA". . . regardless of who the customer is.
Well, in one regard Idra imo isn't totally wrong. This community sometimes has a lot of "sheep". Just imagine Idra would have dominated his wcs-group as he was able to 2 years ago - he would have been the story of the week and most people wouldn't have cared about his post. But this is not entirely my point - I believe EG sees his players as most company’s would do as a sort of profit-center and I'm pretty sure, they think they can get better return of their money with other investments so they took the opportunity given and released Idra over this.
If you think Idra wasn't going to still be a valuable asset to EG, regardless of whether he won in WCS or not, I'd have to say you are out of touch. I don't think there's any way they would have released Idra if he hadn't made that statement on a public forum.
And from the press release, Alex Garfield made that point - that Idra crossed the line with the worst transgression to date. I don't think there's a conspiracy here. It's Idra's fault that he's in this position. Idra, and no one else.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Idra is a poor victim, I'm just saying I think this is as much of a business decision as it is a moral one because of his statement. And I don't think Idra is as much of an valuable asset to EG as he was - he has probably a pretty good salary, therefore he was a pretty expensive asset to EG.
Yes I can agree with these points. It probably was easier for them to justify letting him go than say, a year ago. But I think, as a business, they have to let him go whether it was yesteryear or today after a statement like that.
I just don't know how, in EG's shoes, you can justify to your sponsors one of your players calling their customers "fucks' and "sheep". That's not how Monster Energy, Razor etc etc want to be branded. And they are higher on the food chain than EG.
I disagree. I don't think for a second that they would have fired him a year or two ago for something like this. It's like people somehow have gotten amnesia of all the stupid things he's said and done before. In so many words he's called his fans, players and community members similar things many times. This must have been something that's been building up for quite some time and this was the thing that pushed it over the top.
I don't recall any time in Idra's past that he has ever stated that his entire audience are "fucks" and blatantly stated that he is deliberately manipulating them with the consent of EG in order to profit from abusive behavior.
I think there is a disconnect for most people here. Do you not realize how utterly disrespectful Idra's statement was, to not only his viewership, but also his team and Alex Garfield? The statement implied that EG was deliberately paying him to be abusive towards customers. That's isn't just crossing "the line" . . .that's launching yourself over "the line" with a cannon.
I think you really highlighted well what makes this comment from Idra different from things he has said in the past. Even though it seems similar, the way he worded it basically says, "EG condones my behavior," which really forced EG's hand.
Sure, in the past EG has tacitly supported Idra by continuing to employ him despite his BM, but they could always say, "we do not approve, and are working with him to correct his behavior" or whatever.
This time, however, Idra didn't leave them that kind of wiggle room with his statement. As long as they kept cutting him paychecks, they'd be proving him right, which is not a desirable position to be in for a business like EG.
Nah. I think there was plenty of wiggle room for them again to separate themselves from his statement.
We may never know the true reasons behind all this. Which are most likely economic above all.
You are probably right about his behavior and his professionalism - this is also the reason why I'm not a fan of him.
But the first thought in my mind after reading this news was that EG took the opportunity to get rid of Idra. This is of course pure speculation from myself but he got probably as much salary as their hole Korean Proleauge-Linup with exception of JD and Idra's level and his popularity and therefore his worth for EG slowly faded away through the last year. (just look at tournament results and stream numbers) I'm pretty sure if he would still be on top of his career EG would never released him for this stuff.
This isn't an unreasonable speculation, but I think it's highly improbable.
EG doesn't have a business model that is strictly related to skill-base - they also invest in strong personalities that get exposure (i.e Geoff. "Incontrol" Robinson). Idra, though quite the opposite of Incontrol with regards to his professionalism and personality, still was able to be marketed as a "tough" guy / "badass nerd".
That image of Idra, however, is severely damaged when he openly taunted and insulted his entire viewership and customer-base. To think that Idra's viewership only consisted of die-hard fans or trolls is ridiculous - it was mostly a casual audience that wasn't heavily invested in Idra, but had disposable income and enjoyed being part of the e-sports scene. He literally told those people, who have nothing to do with any drama or anything, really, that they were all "fucks" and "sheep".
When you say something like that to your customers, it's unrecoverable. I'll reiterate that it's like owning a bakery, and every time a customer walks in you say: "You're a fat fuck, can't believe you actually buy my pastries HAHA". . . regardless of who the customer is.
Well, in one regard Idra imo isn't totally wrong. This community sometimes has a lot of "sheep". Just imagine Idra would have dominated his wcs-group as he was able to 2 years ago - he would have been the story of the week and most people wouldn't have cared about his post. But this is not entirely my point - I believe EG sees his players as most company’s would do as a sort of profit-center and I'm pretty sure, they think they can get better return of their money with other investments so they took the opportunity given and released Idra over this.
If you think Idra wasn't going to still be a valuable asset to EG, regardless of whether he won in WCS or not, I'd have to say you are out of touch. I don't think there's any way they would have released Idra if he hadn't made that statement on a public forum.
And from the press release, Alex Garfield made that point - that Idra crossed the line with the worst transgression to date. I don't think there's a conspiracy here. It's Idra's fault that he's in this position. Idra, and no one else.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Idra is a poor victim, I'm just saying I think this is as much of a business decision as it is a moral one because of his statement. And I don't think Idra is as much of an valuable asset to EG as he was - he has probably a pretty good salary, therefore he was a pretty expensive asset to EG.
Yes I can agree with these points. It probably was easier for them to justify letting him go than say, a year ago. But I think, as a business, they have to let him go whether it was yesteryear or today after a statement like that.
I just don't know how, in EG's shoes, you can justify to your sponsors one of your players calling their customers "fucks' and "sheep". That's not how Monster Energy, Razor etc etc want to be branded. And they are higher on the food chain than EG.
I disagree. I don't think for a second that they would have fired him a year or two ago for something like this. It's like people somehow have gotten amnesia of all the stupid things he's said and done before. In so many words he's called his fans, players and community members similar things many times. This must have been something that's been building up for quite some time and this was the thing that pushed it over the top.
I don't recall any time in Idra's past that he has ever stated that his entire audience are "fucks" and blatantly stated that he is deliberately manipulating them with the consent of EG in order to profit from abusive behavior.
I think there is a disconnect for most people here. Do you not realize how utterly disrespectful Idra's statement was, to not only his viewership, but also his team and Alex Garfield? The statement implied that EG was deliberately paying him to be abusive towards customers. That's isn't just crossing "the line" . . .that's launching yourself over "the line" with a cannon.
I think you really highlighted well what makes this comment from Idra different from things he has said in the past. Even though it seems similar, the way he worded it basically says, "EG condones my behavior," which really forced EG's hand.
Sure, in the past EG has tacitly supported Idra by continuing to employ him despite his BM, but they could always say, "we do not approve, and are working with him to correct his behavior" or whatever.
This time, however, Idra didn't leave them that kind of wiggle room with his statement. As long as they kept cutting him paychecks, they'd be proving him right, which is not a desirable position to be in for a business like EG.
EG was going to employ him as long as he was worth the trouble. If he was playing better his comments would have been irrelevant.
I agree that if he was on top of the world right now, the chance that they would have let him go solely because of this comment would have been a lot lower. On the flip side, though, if Idra had just been doing his run-of-the-mill BM instead of this particular comment, I don't think he would have been let go either, even given his current play.
You are probably right about his behavior and his professionalism - this is also the reason why I'm not a fan of him.
But the first thought in my mind after reading this news was that EG took the opportunity to get rid of Idra. This is of course pure speculation from myself but he got probably as much salary as their hole Korean Proleauge-Linup with exception of JD and Idra's level and his popularity and therefore his worth for EG slowly faded away through the last year. (just look at tournament results and stream numbers) I'm pretty sure if he would still be on top of his career EG would never released him for this stuff.
This isn't an unreasonable speculation, but I think it's highly improbable.
EG doesn't have a business model that is strictly related to skill-base - they also invest in strong personalities that get exposure (i.e Geoff. "Incontrol" Robinson). Idra, though quite the opposite of Incontrol with regards to his professionalism and personality, still was able to be marketed as a "tough" guy / "badass nerd".
That image of Idra, however, is severely damaged when he openly taunted and insulted his entire viewership and customer-base. To think that Idra's viewership only consisted of die-hard fans or trolls is ridiculous - it was mostly a casual audience that wasn't heavily invested in Idra, but had disposable income and enjoyed being part of the e-sports scene. He literally told those people, who have nothing to do with any drama or anything, really, that they were all "fucks" and "sheep".
When you say something like that to your customers, it's unrecoverable. I'll reiterate that it's like owning a bakery, and every time a customer walks in you say: "You're a fat fuck, can't believe you actually buy my pastries HAHA". . . regardless of who the customer is.
Well, in one regard Idra imo isn't totally wrong. This community sometimes has a lot of "sheep". Just imagine Idra would have dominated his wcs-group as he was able to 2 years ago - he would have been the story of the week and most people wouldn't have cared about his post. But this is not entirely my point - I believe EG sees his players as most company’s would do as a sort of profit-center and I'm pretty sure, they think they can get better return of their money with other investments so they took the opportunity given and released Idra over this.
If you think Idra wasn't going to still be a valuable asset to EG, regardless of whether he won in WCS or not, I'd have to say you are out of touch. I don't think there's any way they would have released Idra if he hadn't made that statement on a public forum.
And from the press release, Alex Garfield made that point - that Idra crossed the line with the worst transgression to date. I don't think there's a conspiracy here. It's Idra's fault that he's in this position. Idra, and no one else.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Idra is a poor victim, I'm just saying I think this is as much of a business decision as it is a moral one because of his statement. And I don't think Idra is as much of an valuable asset to EG as he was - he has probably a pretty good salary, therefore he was a pretty expensive asset to EG.
Yes I can agree with these points. It probably was easier for them to justify letting him go than say, a year ago. But I think, as a business, they have to let him go whether it was yesteryear or today after a statement like that.
I just don't know how, in EG's shoes, you can justify to your sponsors one of your players calling their customers "fucks' and "sheep". That's not how Monster Energy, Razor etc etc want to be branded. And they are higher on the food chain than EG.
I disagree. I don't think for a second that they would have fired him a year or two ago for something like this. It's like people somehow have gotten amnesia of all the stupid things he's said and done before. In so many words he's called his fans, players and community members similar things many times. This must have been something that's been building up for quite some time and this was the thing that pushed it over the top.
I don't recall any time in Idra's past that he has ever stated that his entire audience are "fucks" and blatantly stated that he is deliberately manipulating them with the consent of EG in order to profit from abusive behavior.
I think there is a disconnect for most people here. Do you not realize how utterly disrespectful Idra's statement was, to not only his viewership, but also his team and Alex Garfield? The statement implied that EG was deliberately paying him to be abusive towards customers. That's isn't just crossing "the line" . . .that's launching yourself over "the line" with a cannon.
I think you really highlighted well what makes this comment from Idra different from things he has said in the past. Even though it seems similar, the way he worded it basically says, "EG condones my behavior," which really forced EG's hand.
Sure, in the past EG has tacitly supported Idra by continuing to employ him despite his BM, but they could always say, "we do not approve, and are working with him to correct his behavior" or whatever.
This time, however, Idra didn't leave them that kind of wiggle room with his statement. As long as they kept cutting him paychecks, they'd be proving him right, which is not a desirable position to be in for a business like EG.
Nah. I think there was plenty of wiggle room for them again to separate themselves from his statement.
We may never know the true reasons behind all this. Which are most likely economic above all.
I don't know, I still feel like the wording made this was a much stickier situation than usual. I completely agree though that we'll never really have the full picture about what else was going on behind the scenes, and that this decision almost certainly wasn't just about his recent comment.
On May 11 2013 05:24 sPSalai wrote: I totally agree with Idra if I where Idra, (only that I wouldnt say it out in public)
The community, even mr bitter for example flamed Idra, most ppl have flamed him lately, I would if I was Idra feel uther hate against all the abusers and bullies out there, even tho I was one aswell...but it would make me depressed having all that shit said about me everywhere...like ppl say here "finally he got what he deserved" etc. Just think about it for a sec, what Idra would feel when reading that? And for him to hate the community is just as Eminim hates his fans, they still love him, and so does the sc2 fans of IDra, even tho Idra hates them, he also loves them, but he got issues explaining feelings, like most americans. Hate is so common in america. So I understand Idra, and I understand the teams choice aswell, Idra would have just had to be a bit nicer and ppl would stop all the hate against him, and everything for him especially would be better...its Karma...you get what you send out there, if you hate, you get hate back. If you love you really feel great with all the warmth ppl send you. So I hope Idra learn from this and grows up, this isnt him, its just him being depressed and hate is the most comfortable feeling to use when being depressed to cover the depression with. It feels true in a sence then.
But anyway, it would be awesome to see Idra make a comeback as a solo player or in a B team, winning a major or such, and then send out some nasty shit about EGs decition.
You're generalizing and stereotyping. "Most people" who watch Starcraft have nothing to do with the drama, are not heavily invested in Idra, and don't want to be called a "fuck" or a "sheep" by someone they are rooting for. If Idra had "called out" the select minority of trolls and rude individuals making things difficult on him, no one would have cared. But he went after his meat-and-potatoes audience.
This business isn't just catering to 12-year-olds anymore. It's an actual industry with real money to be made and a big, legitimate viewership. Consequently, companies like EG have to make big-boy, big-balls decisions that consider their long-term well being. The key message here is that Insulting the casual, adult-viewership (many of whom have disposable income) is not going to be a viable way of conducting business in this industry. The lines are drawn.
I dont generlise, or stereotype, just saying that the guy is depressed and most ppl where against him, just like you. He became that monster that the community made him, he wasnt this bad in the beginning, I can understand the teams choice, but I would love to see him come back and be a really good player and mature mentally.
And about Idras fame, it is even written about idra leaving EG in swedish biggest massmedia paper, "aftonbladet" He is a huge sc2 player world wide, and the sport need one bad ass rude idiot. And he used that image perfect, even tho he isnt like that at all irl, and that is just what ppl say that have met him, even dreamhack organiser said Idra was one really nice guy
What I dont get is why athletes/celebs can behave poorly in public/towards the community yet progamers cannot. I can understand releasing him due to poor performance(i don't really follow sports so I dont know about his performance) but kicking him out due to behavior to me shows more of a weakness of the management of EG rather than idra because they could not control him. In classic sports to get kicked off a team or out of the sport for behaviour you have to do some terrible stuff - i.e Mike Tyson had to bite and ear off before they kicked him out of boxing, his rape beef even did nothing. Kobes rape beef also did not stop him, neighter did Vicks dog fighting involvement. Idra tells some people to fuck off and hes off the team. To me thats a little crazy.
p.s despite all Tyson is still my fav athlete.
I can't agree more. After Tiger woods incident he lost some sponsors but nike remained.
Dude.. tiger, Tyson, kobe, vick have all accomplished a lot in their respective sports. but, idra, in sc2 (don't know about bw) has done that well... and when you embarrass your company like that you will get fired. kudos to EG.
IdrA is the most accomplished foreigner.
not in sc2
Nor in BW lol, Grrr...anyone?
yea just because idra was good in 2009 to the end of bw doesn't make him the best foreigner. He was only good in BW when most of the good foreigners had quit playing. He could never compare to a guy like mondragon, draco and even nony in their prime. He was never even close to top 10 in bw.
You are probably right about his behavior and his professionalism - this is also the reason why I'm not a fan of him.
But the first thought in my mind after reading this news was that EG took the opportunity to get rid of Idra. This is of course pure speculation from myself but he got probably as much salary as their hole Korean Proleauge-Linup with exception of JD and Idra's level and his popularity and therefore his worth for EG slowly faded away through the last year. (just look at tournament results and stream numbers) I'm pretty sure if he would still be on top of his career EG would never released him for this stuff.
This isn't an unreasonable speculation, but I think it's highly improbable.
EG doesn't have a business model that is strictly related to skill-base - they also invest in strong personalities that get exposure (i.e Geoff. "Incontrol" Robinson). Idra, though quite the opposite of Incontrol with regards to his professionalism and personality, still was able to be marketed as a "tough" guy / "badass nerd".
That image of Idra, however, is severely damaged when he openly taunted and insulted his entire viewership and customer-base. To think that Idra's viewership only consisted of die-hard fans or trolls is ridiculous - it was mostly a casual audience that wasn't heavily invested in Idra, but had disposable income and enjoyed being part of the e-sports scene. He literally told those people, who have nothing to do with any drama or anything, really, that they were all "fucks" and "sheep".
When you say something like that to your customers, it's unrecoverable. I'll reiterate that it's like owning a bakery, and every time a customer walks in you say: "You're a fat fuck, can't believe you actually buy my pastries HAHA". . . regardless of who the customer is.
Well, in one regard Idra imo isn't totally wrong. This community sometimes has a lot of "sheep". Just imagine Idra would have dominated his wcs-group as he was able to 2 years ago - he would have been the story of the week and most people wouldn't have cared about his post. But this is not entirely my point - I believe EG sees his players as most company’s would do as a sort of profit-center and I'm pretty sure, they think they can get better return of their money with other investments so they took the opportunity given and released Idra over this.
If you think Idra wasn't going to still be a valuable asset to EG, regardless of whether he won in WCS or not, I'd have to say you are out of touch. I don't think there's any way they would have released Idra if he hadn't made that statement on a public forum.
And from the press release, Alex Garfield made that point - that Idra crossed the line with the worst transgression to date. I don't think there's a conspiracy here. It's Idra's fault that he's in this position. Idra, and no one else.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Idra is a poor victim, I'm just saying I think this is as much of a business decision as it is a moral one because of his statement. And I don't think Idra is as much of an valuable asset to EG as he was - he has probably a pretty good salary, therefore he was a pretty expensive asset to EG.
Yes I can agree with these points. It probably was easier for them to justify letting him go than say, a year ago. But I think, as a business, they have to let him go whether it was yesteryear or today after a statement like that.
I just don't know how, in EG's shoes, you can justify to your sponsors one of your players calling their customers "fucks' and "sheep". That's not how Monster Energy, Razor etc etc want to be branded. And they are higher on the food chain than EG.
I disagree. I don't think for a second that they would have fired him a year or two ago for something like this. It's like people somehow have gotten amnesia of all the stupid things he's said and done before. In so many words he's called his fans, players and community members similar things many times. This must have been something that's been building up for quite some time and this was the thing that pushed it over the top.
I don't recall any time in Idra's past that he has ever stated that his entire audience are "fucks" and blatantly stated that he is deliberately manipulating them with the consent of EG in order to profit from abusive behavior.
I think there is a disconnect for most people here. Do you not realize how utterly disrespectful Idra's statement was, to not only his viewership, but also his team and Alex Garfield? The statement implied that EG was deliberately paying him to be abusive towards customers. That's isn't just crossing "the line" . . .that's launching yourself over "the line" with a cannon.
I think you really highlighted well what makes this comment from Idra different from things he has said in the past. Even though it seems similar, the way he worded it basically says, "EG condones my behavior," which really forced EG's hand.
Sure, in the past EG has tacitly supported Idra by continuing to employ him despite his BM, but they could always say, "we do not approve, and are working with him to correct his behavior" or whatever.
This time, however, Idra didn't leave them that kind of wiggle room with his statement. As long as they kept cutting him paychecks, they'd be proving him right, which is not a desirable position to be in for a business like EG.
Nah. I think there was plenty of wiggle room for them again to separate themselves from his statement.
We may never know the true reasons behind all this. Which are most likely economic above all.
Yup, people forget this is a business, EG doesn't really care unless the people with the money make them. Btw Idra's comments before he went off were mostly accurate, it's about entertainment and not necessarily skill. TL gets sanctimonious with the "I only care about watching the BEST PLAYERS" stuff. They're a vocal minority or lying based on the numbers for individual streamers. It's about being a competent player with an interesting personality.
What I dont get is why athletes/celebs can behave poorly in public/towards the community yet progamers cannot. I can understand releasing him due to poor performance(i don't really follow sports so I dont know about his performance) but kicking him out due to behavior to me shows more of a weakness of the management of EG rather than idra because they could not control him. In classic sports to get kicked off a team or out of the sport for behaviour you have to do some terrible stuff - i.e Mike Tyson had to bite and ear off before they kicked him out of boxing, his rape beef even did nothing. Kobes rape beef also did not stop him, neighter did Vicks dog fighting involvement. Idra tells some people to fuck off and hes off the team. To me thats a little crazy.
p.s despite all Tyson is still my fav athlete.
I can't agree more. After Tiger woods incident he lost some sponsors but nike remained.
Dude.. tiger, Tyson, kobe, vick have all accomplished a lot in their respective sports. but, idra, in sc2 (don't know about bw) has done that well... and when you embarrass your company like that you will get fired. kudos to EG.
IdrA is the most accomplished foreigner.
not in sc2
Nor in BW lol, Grrr...anyone?
yea just because idra was good in 2009 to the end of bw doesn't make him the best foreigner. He was only good in BW when most of the good foreigners had quit playing. He could never compare to a guy like mondragon, draco and even nony in their prime. He was never even close to top 10 in bw.
I think not top 10 in BW is stretching too much man.
Idra might have not been the best foreigner, but he was a really really good Terran and I strongly believe he fits perfectly fine in a BW Top 10 back in the days.
What I dont get is why athletes/celebs can behave poorly in public/towards the community yet progamers cannot. I can understand releasing him due to poor performance(i don't really follow sports so I dont know about his performance) but kicking him out due to behavior to me shows more of a weakness of the management of EG rather than idra because they could not control him. In classic sports to get kicked off a team or out of the sport for behaviour you have to do some terrible stuff - i.e Mike Tyson had to bite and ear off before they kicked him out of boxing, his rape beef even did nothing. Kobes rape beef also did not stop him, neighter did Vicks dog fighting involvement. Idra tells some people to fuck off and hes off the team. To me thats a little crazy.
p.s despite all Tyson is still my fav athlete.
I can't agree more. After Tiger woods incident he lost some sponsors but nike remained.
Dude.. tiger, Tyson, kobe, vick have all accomplished a lot in their respective sports. but, idra, in sc2 (don't know about bw) has done that well... and when you embarrass your company like that you will get fired. kudos to EG.
IdrA is the most accomplished foreigner.
not in sc2
Nor in BW lol, Grrr...anyone?
yea just because idra was good in 2009 to the end of bw doesn't make him the best foreigner. He was only good in BW when most of the good foreigners had quit playing. He could never compare to a guy like mondragon, draco and even nony in their prime. He was never even close to top 10 in bw.
I think not top 10 in BW is stretching too much man.
Idra might have not been the best foreigner, but he was a really really good Terran and I strongly believe he fits perfectly fine in a BW Top 10 back in the days.
On May 11 2013 05:11 c0sm0naut wrote: I think this is unfair to Greg. I think this industry is suited well for the "bad boys" of sc. If EG hired him to be a player, they Should release him based on that, not an attitude issue. I agree that he was too vocal bout his opinions of fans/the game but I really dislike the idea that eg is setting/solidifying an already existing norm for esports organizations are both responsible for their players opinions/behavior and have to manage them. Basketball players like Kobe can rape women and still play for the same franchise for years, and as a community we just ignore it or develop stronger feelings of team rivalrly against the lakers. I have the mental power to understand that what idra says is not only separate from egs opinions, but also enough to understand that someone who has dedicated their life to this sport up until now is likely filled with pressure, emotional connection to the game and needs to be given respect. The people acting on this decision are not respecting the level of dedication Greg has to this game or what he as done to bridge the gap between NA and KR. EGs players still have my full support but I am tremendously disappointed in this company's inability to recognize Greg's consistent practice ad performance, instead deciding to focus on moments of meteoric emotions which are completely understandable from anyone who has played a game professionally. Period.
You can't possibly compare what Kobe did with what Idra did which is basically saying your employer endorses you shitting on community. Greg's performance ? Refusing to adopt to bl-infestor style because it's not his style when all other zergs dominate shows dedication of his...
Dignity is a rare trait nowadays. How many people wouldn't use an obviously overpowered unit/composition just because they knew it was not actual skill? So, actually, it really does show dedication of his. That's like refusing to use a gun in a sword fight! That deserves some respect.
Please read this. It will be good for you. Play to win
On May 11 2013 05:24 sPSalai wrote: I totally agree with Idra if I where Idra, (only that I wouldnt say it out in public)
The community, even mr bitter for example flamed Idra, most ppl have flamed him lately, I would if I was Idra feel uther hate against all the abusers and bullies out there, even tho I was one aswell...but it would make me depressed having all that shit said about me everywhere...like ppl say here "finally he got what he deserved" etc. Just think about it for a sec, what Idra would feel when reading that? And for him to hate the community is just as Eminim hates his fans, they still love him, and so does the sc2 fans of IDra, even tho Idra hates them, he also loves them, but he got issues explaining feelings, like most americans. Hate is so common in america. So I understand Idra, and I understand the teams choice aswell, Idra would have just had to be a bit nicer and ppl would stop all the hate against him, and everything for him especially would be better...its Karma...you get what you send out there, if you hate, you get hate back. If you love you really feel great with all the warmth ppl send you. So I hope Idra learn from this and grows up, this isnt him, its just him being depressed and hate is the most comfortable feeling to use when being depressed to cover the depression with. It feels true in a sence then.
But anyway, it would be awesome to see Idra make a comeback as a solo player or in a B team, winning a major or such, and then send out some nasty shit about EGs decition.
You're generalizing and stereotyping. "Most people" who watch Starcraft have nothing to do with the drama, are not heavily invested in Idra, and don't want to be called a "fuck" or a "sheep" by someone they are rooting for. If Idra had "called out" the select minority of trolls and rude individuals making things difficult on him, no one would have cared. But he went after his meat-and-potatoes audience.
This business isn't just catering to 12-year-olds anymore. It's an actual industry with real money to be made and a big, legitimate viewership. Consequently, companies like EG have to make big-boy, big-balls decisions that consider their long-term well being. The key message here is that Insulting the casual, adult-viewership (many of whom have disposable income) is not going to be a viable way of conducting business in this industry. The lines are drawn.
I dont generlise, or stereotype, just saying that the guy is depressed and most ppl where against him, just like you. He became that monster that the community made him, he wasnt this bad in the beginning, I can understand the teams choice, but I would love to see him come back and be a really good player and mature mentally.
And about Idras fame, it is even written about idra leaving EG in swedish biggest massmedia paper, "aftonbladet" He is a huge sc2 player world wide, and the sport need one bad ass rude idiot. And he used that image perfect, even tho he isnt like that at all irl, and that is just what ppl say that have met him, even dreamhack organiser said Idra was one really nice guy
You don't generalize or stereotype, then you state that "most people are against Idra, like you". . . Lol. It's hard not to laugh at this bud.
Because I'm not "against" Idra. It does not make me happy to see Idra without a job, nor do I have any desire to dance on his grave. The guy screwed up - he got fired for his behavior and I think it was the correct decision for EG to fire him. That's doesn't equate to me exacting pleasure from the event. Sure, it's enjoyable to shoot down outlandish, non-sensical posters who try and justify Idra's statement or attack EG, but that's just because it's so incredibly easy to do so and some of us get a laugh out of it.
And no, just no. . . The sport doesn't "need" any badass rude idiots. It's also questionable when you say that Idra isn't "like this" in real life. I think the consensus in the community thus far is that Idra is who he is - there's no personae or mask hiding the "true, sweetheart" Idra. Though we will never know what's really going on inside the mind of Idra, it's obvious that the guy has problems, or in the very least a huge lack of business sense. We can only hope that he seeks help and returns to the sport with some integrity.
On May 11 2013 04:12 tomatriedes wrote: Anyone else find it funny that EG used to deliberately play up and market Idra's 'bad boy' image and now they fire him for the very same thing? What I find really strange is that they didn't give him a warning or suspend him first. Arguably Stephano's admission of statutory rape was just as bad and he got only a suspension. I really think there's more to this story that we don't know about. Possibly Garfield demanded Idra apologize and he refused or perhaps Idra insulted Garfield directly?
Did you even read the press release?
While it sounds like the same thing, it is not.
He's being released because he basically spoke for EG that they endorse bad (his) behaviour against an authority(his audience). That's why EG needed to make the move.
EPT
