On May 05 2013 12:12 Hitch-22 wrote: I wonder how many GM players sitting in the top 50 read this and think "If only I had other sexual appendages"... I apologize but as a gamer the idea of "equality" indicates that you're judged on your skill and not on your having a penis or not... It's just disrespectful to all of the gamers above her who are stuck slaving away, it was the same with Flo.
I guess this is just my opinion however, we all think differently but I just wish people got judged on their accomplishments and not because it's a fad to have girls on the team. Girls should get the same chances as guys, which frankly, means they should be the same skill.
Well, essentially this.
Doesn't make Hitch and I sexist, in fact we're for genuine meritocracy. It also pisses me off that derogatory comments towards females gets people jumped all over over, but comments such as 'you're so pretty' which are equivalently patronising and sexist are tolerated.
That said, also we're under the assumption she is being picked up for some kind of playing capacity, when Quantic may have something very different in mind.
Women are primarily to be objects of desire, and successful human beings second. because of this, women will never be taken seriously as great artists, scientists, writers, etc because their first and foremost duty is to satisfy the male gaze.
Women who are great artists, scientists and writers are taken seriously. That's pretty silly.
That's precisely the point. I hate to invoke Scarlett so much, but transgendered people are a lot more discriminated against societally, but she has a massive fanbase on here because she is really good at the game.
Perhaps the SC2 community is actually pretty tolerant, and it's 'sexism' is bemoaning people getting a leg up?
On May 05 2013 04:40 Chillax wrote: Looks more like a PR stunt then anything else, I wish her luck but it seems quite similar to the whole Slayer Eve situation to me.
On May 05 2013 12:12 Hitch-22 wrote: I wonder how many GM players sitting in the top 50 read this and think "If only I had other sexual appendages"... I apologize but as a gamer the idea of "equality" indicates that you're judged on your skill and not on your having a penis or not... It's just disrespectful to all of the gamers above her who are stuck slaving away, it was the same with Flo.
I guess this is just my opinion however, we all think differently but I just wish people got judged on their accomplishments and not because it's a fad to have girls on the team. Girls should get the same chances as guys, which frankly, means they should be the same skill.
Well, essentially this.
Doesn't make Hitch and I sexist, in fact we're for genuine meritocracy. It also pisses me off that derogatory comments towards females gets people jumped all over over, but comments such as 'you're so pretty' which are equivalently patronising and sexist are tolerated.
That said, also we're under the assumption she is being picked up for some kind of playing capacity, when Quantic may have something very different in mind.
Since when has any professional sport ever been a pure meritocracy? Or professional anything, for that matter.
On May 05 2013 10:25 LingBlingBling wrote: I still don't understand why they picked kaitlyn over ms spite tho, kaitlyn never gets close to 1k views, or even streams at all very often, her highests is like few hundred.
Ms Spyte is far more skilled imo, would deserve this spot far more. She is Top masters with GM MMR vs kaitlyn who is very low mmr for master player, considered low masters.
MS spyte gets 1k+ viewers at all times, more lately as she streams often.
So still kinda confused. Is it a Canadian based only side or something? As far as marketing and skill, Ms spyte would of been the better option, Also a zerg player.
On May 05 2013 12:12 Hitch-22 wrote: I wonder how many GM players sitting in the top 50 read this and think "If only I had other sexual appendages"... I apologize but as a gamer the idea of "equality" indicates that you're judged on your skill and not on your having a penis or not... It's just disrespectful to all of the gamers above her who are stuck slaving away, it was the same with Flo.
I guess this is just my opinion however, we all think differently but I just wish people got judged on their accomplishments and not because it's a fad to have girls on the team. Girls should get the same chances as guys, which frankly, means they should be the same skill.
Well, essentially this.
Doesn't make Hitch and I sexist, in fact we're for genuine meritocracy. It also pisses me off that derogatory comments towards females gets people jumped all over over, but comments such as 'you're so pretty' which are equivalently patronising and sexist are tolerated.
That said, also we're under the assumption she is being picked up for some kind of playing capacity, when Quantic may have something very different in mind.
Since when has any professional sport ever been a pure meritocracy? Or professional anything, for that matter.
Just becaude you can't achieve perfection/an ideal doesn't mean you can't strive towards it.
Pro sports are some of the most meritocratic forms of employment out there. Additional sponsorships on top of base salaries and winnings maybe less so ofc.
On May 05 2013 12:12 Hitch-22 wrote: I wonder how many GM players sitting in the top 50 read this and think "If only I had other sexual appendages"... I apologize but as a gamer the idea of "equality" indicates that you're judged on your skill and not on your having a penis or not... It's just disrespectful to all of the gamers above her who are stuck slaving away, it was the same with Flo.
I guess this is just my opinion however, we all think differently but I just wish people got judged on their accomplishments and not because it's a fad to have girls on the team. Girls should get the same chances as guys, which frankly, means they should be the same skill.
Well, essentially this.
Doesn't make Hitch and I sexist, in fact we're for genuine meritocracy. It also pisses me off that derogatory comments towards females gets people jumped all over over, but comments such as 'you're so pretty' which are equivalently patronising and sexist are tolerated.
That said, also we're under the assumption she is being picked up for some kind of playing capacity, when Quantic may have something very different in mind.
Since when has any professional sport ever been a pure meritocracy? Or professional anything, for that matter.
I think that was his point...
The reason she is picked up is essentially a sexist one... Most of the posts in this thread have been "pretty" ... WTF does that mean to her accomplishments? Did they just hire a pretty girl to showcase their team? Well the obvious answer is yes... Why is InControl still in EG? He is a funny, charismatic guy who sponsors their product as such; he even admits to not being the best player but he tries (which is admirable) but he, as well as us, know he is a marketing guy and if this is her role then fine but don't guise it as "training to be the best"... If you want that, start at top 50 GM, not high to middle tier masters, it's exhausting.
Anyone who disagrees with me be prepared to bring it to brawn because I see any pick up (as I mentioned earlier Flo) as an utter disrespect to women in general and only worsening the gap of sexism between society and the online community.
You should be given a chance based on results/skill and not on whether you have breasts that nerds find attractive, this is a disgusting disrespect to women and I apologize in advance to her if she ever reads this but if she can't see there are hundreds if not thousands of more deserving players and she's being picked up over them because she happens to be female then I don't know what else to say because, frankly, it's true and Quantic should feel the brunt of the community for hiring based on sexual desire of males and sexist notions rather then true talent and skill.
I want to live in a community where we see a girl brought onto a team and she happens to be top 10 GM and stomping everyone in sight... Not "plat/diamond/masters and trying their damnedest to improve!! <3 : D" because I'm trying my damnedest somedays and a lot of others are trying even harder but they get fucked because of this.
Sexism and inequality starts when you hand special treatment to one or the other gender, it's not an excuse to hire a male because he has a penis so it shouldn't be an excuse to hire a female because she has tits and gamers like them, skill should trump all and she lacks it.
Now you can argue perhaps that there aren't nearly as many females and she represents the best of the females out there (in the pool of pickups) to try and bolster the female scene but is it a good way to encourage them to basically say "well you don't really have to be good... Have a nice smile and get into mid-high masters and you'll make it!". That's a great shadow to put over all females trying to enter the scene, be a sexual symbol and mediocre and get in easier then everyone else...
So, you genuinely believe that the people signed to teams in other professional sports are truly the best players in the their field in the world, and that luck, or appearance, or marketability, etc. had zero impact on their success?
I think you're holding esports to a paradigm that doesn't exist.
EDIT: It's only becomes an issue of sexism because whenever a guy gets signed to a team, there's this pervasive tendency in the community to conveniently overlook any of the non-skill related factors that might possibly have helped him get signed to a team (eg. personality, networking, attractiveness), but when a girl gets signed to a team, that's all everyone talks about. My point is that there are always a bunch of factors involved in any team's decision to sign a player - it's not a meritocracy - but it only seems to become an issue when the player in question is female.
Fuji's had this track record of pickups, no real surprise. They grabbed that one girl on xSix (forgot her name) too and that Maximus dude while not locking up Suppy...But yeah, best of luck.
On May 05 2013 12:58 khaydarin9 wrote: So, you genuinely believe that the people signed to teams in other professional sports are truly the best players in the their field in the world, and that luck, or appearance, or marketability, etc. had zero impact on their success?
I think you're holding esports to a paradigm that doesn't exist.
EDIT: It's only becomes an issue of sexism because whenever a guy gets signed to a team, there's this pervasive tendency in the community to conveniently overlook any of the non-skill related factors that might possibly have helped him get signed to a team (eg. personality, networking, attractiveness), but when a girl gets signed to a team, that's all everyone talks about. My point is that there are always a bunch of factors involved in any team's decision to sign a player - it's not a meritocracy - but it only seems to become an issue when the player in question is female.
No, but I believe that when you look at sports pickups the majority (if not all) are within respect to the top of their playing field... Of course you're not going to get (insert best professional sports player from any sport) with every draft but you don't go down to Jr C hockey and hire a player to come and play on your AHL team because he has a nice smile and is quick wit.
Does marketability present itself? Of course it does but you, by mentioning, basically say her job is to play games and promote Quantic with her sexuality rather then anything else as if she's the bell girl at a UFC fight but if you're saying she's training at the academy you'll never find a single sports team (women or male) that signs sub-par (and by sub-par I would go as far as to say 3-4-5 divisions down in comparisons to the players that are open right now in GM) because of personality etc... I'd like to see one or two of these people who can be so far down but get in because of that reason.
EDIT to your EDIT:
- Are you saying EG's InControl has NEVER taken any heat for being mainly just personality while being rather bad at SC2? Is this your argument that it's only females because I've seen many players get this...
The reason this happens MORE to females is because there's never any other reason... Scarlet is what, the only exception? It's not like 99.99% of male gamers get picked up for something other then skill, try the 0.01 % at best while females this is all you see...
You want equality, start by being equal. Start by grinding 12 hours a day for years only to reach semi-pro and win a few Playhems... Start by hitting the same skill ceilings pros have to push through to improve... It's not about being a male or a female, that's the fucking point, it's about playing the game in question and putting your mind and mentality to the task against others in fair sport... That is competition and that is equality, this is sexist by definition and it's only hurting females in the league because it only shines light on the attractive mediocre females... I know, even as a male, that if I were a female I'd be discouraged to get involved because you'll always be looked at the same way, as a publicity stunt in almost every case because in almost every case you are... You're the girl who stands beside the NASCAR team with a bikini on and a logo on your ass cheek rather then the driver or the team; you're not Danica Patrick, you're the sexual symbol to grab males attentions; a degradation to women frankly.
On May 05 2013 12:58 khaydarin9 wrote: So, you genuinely believe that the people signed to teams in other professional sports are truly the best players in the their field in the world, and that luck, or appearance, or marketability, etc. had zero impact on their success?
I think you're holding esports to a paradigm that doesn't exist.
No, but I believe that when you look at sports pickups the majority (if not all) are within respect to the top of their playing field... Of course you're not going to get (insert best professional sports player from any sport) with every draft but you don't go down to Jr C hockey and hire a player to come and play on your AHL team because he has a nice smile and is quick wit.
Does marketability present itself? Of course it does but you, by mentioning, basically say her job is to play games and promote Quantic with her sexuality rather then anything else as if she's the bell girl at a UFC fight but if you're saying she's training at the academy you'll never find a single sports team (women or male) that signs sub-par (and by sub-par I would go as far as to say 3-4-5 divisions down in comparisons to the players that are open right now in GM) because of personality etc... I'd like to see one or two of these people who can be so far down but get in because of that reason.
Of course, marketability is also the reason that players like NaNiWa and Destiny have such a track record of team instability, despite having a certain amount of skill, and why people like inControl and TLO are still signed to big teams, despite not having produced results in quite a while. It matters to the management, and it matters to the audience. It's not in itself gendered, except that people turn a blind eye to it when it's a boy, and are up there brandishing their flaming torches and pitchforks when it's a girl.
No, I'm not saying that it never happens to boys, but the fact that it's vastly disproportionate would lend itself to the argument that it's just another weapon being used to delegitimise girls as professional players. Historically, there has yet to be a non-controversial signing of a female player to a pro team - conveniently, those girls are just never good enough to be on the team (when it's not even about being "good enough", because it's never been a meritocracy). People making jabs at inControl is not really the same as systematically dismantling every girl who comes along.
On May 05 2013 12:58 khaydarin9 wrote: So, you genuinely believe that the people signed to teams in other professional sports are truly the best players in the their field in the world, and that luck, or appearance, or marketability, etc. had zero impact on their success?
I think you're holding esports to a paradigm that doesn't exist.
No, but I believe that when you look at sports pickups the majority (if not all) are within respect to the top of their playing field... Of course you're not going to get (insert best professional sports player from any sport) with every draft but you don't go down to Jr C hockey and hire a player to come and play on your AHL team because he has a nice smile and is quick wit.
Does marketability present itself? Of course it does but you, by mentioning, basically say her job is to play games and promote Quantic with her sexuality rather then anything else as if she's the bell girl at a UFC fight but if you're saying she's training at the academy you'll never find a single sports team (women or male) that signs sub-par (and by sub-par I would go as far as to say 3-4-5 divisions down in comparisons to the players that are open right now in GM) because of personality etc... I'd like to see one or two of these people who can be so far down but get in because of that reason.
Of course, marketability is also the reason that players like NaNiWa and Destiny have such a track record of team instability, despite having a certain amount of skill, and why people like inControl and TLO are still signed to big teams, despite not having produced results in quite a while. It matters to the management, and it matters to the audience. It's not in itself gendered, except that people turn a blind eye to it when it's a boy, and are up there brandishing their flaming torches and pitchforks when it's a girl.
You rehashed the "only for girls" I edited my post to align with that since you edited before, I won't go back over it unless you have something to add to that.
Editing gets confusing when we start editing posts back and forth lol
On May 05 2013 10:25 LingBlingBling wrote: I still don't understand why they picked kaitlyn over ms spite tho, kaitlyn never gets close to 1k views, or even streams at all very often, her highests is like few hundred.
Ms Spyte is far more skilled imo, would deserve this spot far more. She is Top masters with GM MMR vs kaitlyn who is very low mmr for master player, considered low masters.
MS spyte gets 1k+ viewers at all times, more lately as she streams often.
So still kinda confused. Is it a Canadian based only side or something? As far as marketing and skill, Ms spyte would of been the better option, Also a zerg player.
She's a Mid-Masters Zerg MMR.
I was gonna say... she's nowhere near GM level mmr. I've seen a game or two on her stream, and it isn't even close.
EPT
