Some facts about the Viper (regarding Episode 4, which I just started watching):
-) At 22mins sympatico shows us what happens when you try to pull a widow mine: nothing. This is wrong!
What happened there was that he did not bring detection. He could target the widow mine (as he was playing both parties), but the spell requires the unit to be detected! If you bring an overseer the mine gets pulled and is unburrowed at its new location. (edit: he corrects this later in that episode)

-) 2Vipers pulling each other is possible. They just switch locations. (and it looks hilarious)

-) a Viper pulling anything that is channeling something (like a phoenix channeling graviton beam, or the unit that gets lifted by it) will cancel that channeling. In particular, a lifted unit gets pulled and falls to the ground and a phoenix gets pulled and the lifted unit falls to the ground.
Same is true of course for any other channeling abilities like Yamato Canon or Snipe which get canceled.
(note that there is a difference between a channeling ability, and a temporary burff like medivac speed or void ray charge)

-) a Viper pulling something cancels all orders given, including movements, amove, patrol, and hold position.

-) a Viper pulling a speed medivac does (ofc) not cancel the speed boost. However it does cancel the movement order, so to take advantage of the extra speed, the medivac has to be given a new movement order.

-) a Viper pulling a burrowed unit does pull it out of the ground. This also applies to moving targets such as roaches or infestors (and the movecommands are canceled).

-) a Viper pulling a cloaked unit from inside detection range to outside of detection range will pull it the full distance.

hm... have I forgotten anything interesting?

Ah, and as they were discussing ultimate compositions in ZvZ in Epsiode 5 and mass swarm hosts keeps coming up:
12 3-5 ultras on amove vs 24 3-3 swarm hosts isn't even close, they just eat through those locusts and combined with transfusions and mass creep (which the swarm host player initiates!) and vipers which blind the locusts and pull the swarm hosts, I could see this breaking a mass swarm host player, even if he supports his hosts properly and runs them back etc...

Edit:

On May 23 2013 01:44 Chronos. wrote:
@Big J, Sympatico does correct his mistake later in the show later in the episode and shows that a Viper can pull a widow mine out of the ground, stating that some viewers informed him of it.

Anyway, everything on your list is right. I really love exploring interesting new units too =)

ty!

Chronos.

United States805 Posts

May 22 2013 16:44 GMT

#725

@Big J, Sympatico does correct his mistake later in the show later in the episode and shows that a Viper can pull a widow mine out of the ground, stating that some viewers informed him of it.

Anyway, everything on your list is right. I really love exploring interesting new units too =)

HystericaLaughter

Australia720 Posts

May 22 2013 17:22 GMT

#726

Love how Artosis brings on Australian players a lot. Really really great exposure for the scene. I also didn't realise Pig was such a cool guy

wouldn't have known that without meta

Dr.Sin

Canada1126 Posts

May 23 2013 20:36 GMT

#727

This is fantastic. Thank you for the great show Artosis, Pig, Idra and Catz!

Account252508

3454 Posts

May 25 2013 00:40 GMT

#728

--- Nuked ---

RifleCow

Canada637 Posts

May 25 2013 00:57 GMT

#729

On May 23 2013 01:23 khanan wrote:
3 zergs? no thanks. not to rain on meta, but the bias is just too much.

Are you serious? They are talking about metagame in the zerg perspective. The bias is really the point of the discussion. If you see it from the other side you can figure out what zerg's like and dislike, make your play better.

TRaFFiC

Canada1448 Posts

May 25 2013 01:42 GMT

#730

Idra and Iaguz both refuse to GG. So hard to take anything they say about balance and the meta seriously when they are "closet ragers".

Otherwise, I love the show.

Deleted User 137586

7859 Posts

May 25 2013 09:57 GMT

#731

On May 25 2013 10:42 TRaFFiC wrote:
Idra and Iaguz both refuse to GG. So hard to take anything they say about balance and the meta seriously when they are "closet ragers".

Otherwise, I love the show.

People like you deserve to be made fun of, therefore, please allow me to indulge.

First, I'd like to see you flesh out that argument, add a few logical steps between the premise and conclusion: X and Y don't GG -> they are bad at discussing balance. So what goes where the arrow is now? The real difficulty arises when you try to conclude the conjunction of balance and the meta, as these two are very different, yet you're now committed to having argument which focuses on their intersection.

Second, what is the meaning of "closet X"? For example, "coming out of the closet" for gay people means that you no longer hide the fact that you are gay. This is the origin of the phrase "closet queen" which, I'm assuming, you are trying to invoke here. Yet, if they do not GG, it's a public act, which you interpret as rage. But if it's public rage, how can it be closet rage? Mmmh?

blade55555

United States17423 Posts

May 25 2013 10:08 GMT

#732

LOL I just learned something new. You don't gg = you can't be taken seriously. hahaha that is the funniest load of bullshit lol. While I agree Idra is a bit biased, you can't go by "oh this player doesn't gg so you can't take anything he says about balance and the meta seriously".

Like really I can't believe you actually believe that...

Douillos

France3195 Posts

May 27 2013 15:25 GMT

#733

This show is getting better and better. My go to show for sc2 without a doubt.

ShowTheLights

Korea (South)1715 Posts

May 29 2013 01:14 GMT

#734

who are the hosts this week

Dodgin

Canada39254 Posts

May 29 2013 02:41 GMT

#735

Looks like Artosis, Idra, Catz, Theognis.

dreamsmasher

816 Posts

May 29 2013 03:05 GMT

#736

just because someone doesn't gg doesn't mean anything. i don't gg either, i don't get angry, i just don't really care to gg, its a waste of time. people rarely gg in any other game, why should it extend to starcraft.

its hard to take you seriously as an intelligent person when you harbor this opinion.

NovemberstOrm

Canada16217 Posts

May 29 2013 03:07 GMT

#737

sick intro haha

Rabiator

Germany3948 Posts

May 29 2013 03:30 GMT

#738

Sadly they only think in the direction of "UPgrades" and not in the direction of "fixing basic problematic stuff" ... which also includes nerfing stuff.

An example:
The Forcefield (and Blink) is a requirement only because Stalkers really suck against massive numbers of Zerglings or Marines and you can do nothing with regular micro (as you can pre-Zergling speed and pre-Stimpack). The Stalker is the biggest infantry unit hit point wise and should be able to kill / survive (i.e. flee) against a bigger number of these smaller units, but due to the "critical numbers mechanic" of the movement and unit selection mechanic that doesnt work.

So the right fix would be to adjust the number of units on the battlefield engaged in a fight with each other by reducing the density of units. Once that is done to get rid of "overwhelming critical numbers focus fire on bigger units" Protoss do not need the Forcefield anymore. Trying to fix the game by only changing units is an exercise in futility ... so the whole discussion seems to be moot.

-----

On "not reactive playstyle" (Protoss) I would assume that is the fault of the Korean tournament style where you meticulously plan and prepare a build order against a known opponent for a week. They really need to change to a more "MLG- / Dreamhack-Style" of NOT knowing who the next opponent will be OR having to play multiple opponents/races on the same day.