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On April 24 2013 18:32 Billd wrote:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, whether it be someone who remembers this time period better than I, has a specific source, or maybe Geoff himself can comment on this.
About a year about when no one really knew what was going on with SOTG I believe JP or Geoff came out and said the show was delayed partly due to contracts needing to be signed. (Other issues were everyone was very busy, etc). I suppose, because the show did return, that said contracts were drafted and signed by each pillar at that time.
Although SOTG has maintained a consistent schedule recently, we have seen many different faces on SOTG the past couple months. My guess is that those on the "new" SOTG did not sign a contract.
Now, whether or not the contract that the old pillars signed (assuming they actually did sign one) had a non competition clause is hard to say. Of course, it would be in JP's best interest to have such a clause.
This is where my memory fails me, was it not during this time that Geoff eventually decided to leave the show? This makes me wonder that the contract that was pending signatures did have a no competition clause and in signing it Geoff could not be on ITG and SOTG. *Speculation*
I'm no expert (only in year 2 of my JD), but I find it interesting that JP had contracts drafted, possibly with no comp clauses, for the old SOTG but no contracts for the new SOTG.
I dont know how the contract stuff works out but why is there a reason to have contracts in the first place? I mean, this is a great opportunity for the players on the show to let themselves be heard and known and show their personality. It should be obvious that there are many players out there who would love to be part of the show without signing a contract imo.
Also, are shows like SOTG, ITG, The Pulse etc really in competition for viewership? Sure some topics are the same but the broadcast times are different and so are the personalities involved. I like to watch news more than once a week, especially SC related news and I´ll gladly watch all shows when there are so much stuff going on in the SC2 scene as seen recently.
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A decent amount of posts seem to be knee-jerk. Some people need to calm the F down before jumping to conclusions. Let me jump on the hate bandwagon a sec to illustrate a point. iNcontrol posted in defense of JP, yet included nothing to back up Artosis? Does this mean iNcontrol is siding with JP? Maybe JP is the victim here? Or maybe JP is paying off iNcontrol and Artosis is the victim? Maybe Artosis wanted to be on Rollplay, but got denied? Maybe Artosis felt he would have been the better anorexic ranger?! Maybe Artosis is mad cuz he believes if he was playing, Beargor would have lived? Maybe this is all about Beargor? What? Beargor is the root of all this misunderstanding? Maybe Beargor was a SC2 bonjwa? A bear playing SC2 would have been awesome. With his death, this amazingness will never come to fruition. It all makes sense now...
Conclusions drawn on circumstantial evidence will eventually lead to just such ridiculousness. People love drama. There is no way around it. As long as the lack of information remains, the speculation and assumptions will continue to run rampant. People will continue to take sides and act irrationally. It wouldn't surprise me to discover that most of those nerds ragequit watching Iron Man once Tony Stark died at the beginning of the movie. The screen blacked out when the bomb went off and he was bleeding afterall, no other conclusion was possible. It is inconceivable that there was more to the story... Regardless of who was in the right or wrong or whether the decision was mutual, this guesswork seems to be doing more harm than good.
All this drama could have been mitigated if Artosis simply delayed the debut of his new show and started on a clean slate. Bad way to start off with so much controversy in the air. Too much confusion. Preface the show with an explanation of how things went down and why both chose to go their separate ways. Don't need all the details, but enough to clarify what happened. Hell, both JP and Artosis could still clear the air by making a vid together. Show the masses that there is no hard feelings on either side. Seeing both talking it out togehter in a non-angry manner would go a long way to calm down all those butthurt nerds. There is no avoiding drama, but at least wait for the "full story" before making judgement. Leave your damn pitchforks on standby if you must. However, I am under no illusion that the hate spewed posts will continue regardless of what happens, but I am under the belief that there are enough reasonable people out there who will understand and just move on. I miss Beargor...
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I agree, I'm more inclined to listening to each personality's opinion on a matter, which is why I watch Inside the Game, State of the Game and the Pulse (and now this). Different smart people that know what they're talking about and have differing opinions regarding things always makes for great discussions and civilized arguments most of the time.
Now this did seem weird having the exact same guests as the last few State of the Games had, and no explanation has been provided as of yet, but I'm willing to sit and wait for new guests and/or hosts and such on either this or State of the Game anyway. I want to listen to other pro players besides Moonglade and Theognis every now and then (keep Catz, he's awesome every single time).
Explanations can come later. I want my content.
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At least we are getting the pitchforking without any knowledge of what is going on and without any decency or respect whatsoever from the good old State of the Game days in this thread. Good stuff!
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On April 24 2013 19:15 DaCruise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 18:32 Billd wrote:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, whether it be someone who remembers this time period better than I, has a specific source, or maybe Geoff himself can comment on this.
About a year about when no one really knew what was going on with SOTG I believe JP or Geoff came out and said the show was delayed partly due to contracts needing to be signed. (Other issues were everyone was very busy, etc). I suppose, because the show did return, that said contracts were drafted and signed by each pillar at that time.
Although SOTG has maintained a consistent schedule recently, we have seen many different faces on SOTG the past couple months. My guess is that those on the "new" SOTG did not sign a contract.
Now, whether or not the contract that the old pillars signed (assuming they actually did sign one) had a non competition clause is hard to say. Of course, it would be in JP's best interest to have such a clause.
This is where my memory fails me, was it not during this time that Geoff eventually decided to leave the show? This makes me wonder that the contract that was pending signatures did have a no competition clause and in signing it Geoff could not be on ITG and SOTG. *Speculation*
I'm no expert (only in year 2 of my JD), but I find it interesting that JP had contracts drafted, possibly with no comp clauses, for the old SOTG but no contracts for the new SOTG. I dont know how the contract stuff works out but why is there a reason to have contracts in the first place? I mean, this is a great opportunity for the players on the show to let themselves be heard and known and show their personality. It should be obvious that there are many players out there who would love to be part of the show without signing a contract imo. Also, are shows like SOTG, ITG, The Pulse etc really in competition for viewership? Sure some topics are the same but the broadcast times are different and so are the personalities involved. I like to watch news more than once a week, especially SC related news and I´ll gladly watch all shows when there are so much stuff going on in the SC2 scene as seen recently.
See I find this aspect of the scene very interesting and I really think it is a growing pain. Artosis starting Meta reminds me a lot of Suppy joining EG. Suppy did not have a contract with CheckSix Source. Obviously losing Suppy was a big blow to CheckSix and they closed down a few weeks later. Suppy was important to CheckSix and had they had a contract with him his recruitment by EG would not of been as easy. Unfortunate for CheckSix, but also completely legitimate.
It's hard to say what impact Meta will have on SOTG. As a community we gobble up content, we love these shows. However, having a show air a day before yours, with the same hosts, talking about the same things? Surely its going to have a negative impact on SOTG. You're not going to get Artosis to sign a contract that states he can't be on any other Starcraft shows. However, a well put together contract would take into consideration JP's interests, SOTG's interests as well as Artosis'.
This is just one aspect too. It's possible that a contract could exist without them physically signing something, and that raises the question of whether there is a benefit/detriment relationship between them. Or "quid pro quo" which is basically a "this for that" type of deal. My mind is spinning about it actually, haha. Contract law is my worst subject.
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This show was a huge slap to JP's face. Also it was very boring, SOTG had a uniqueness of unintended comedy such as the sharktosis thing, this show actually proved why having a host is necessary. Really crappy thing for Artosis to do, and his reasoning at the end of his show doesn't justify this direct copy at all.
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I don't think I'll be watching this because it'd be disrespectful to JP. Artosis making a "new" show basically with the same everything is pretty sad.
As someone already said in the thread. A show created by Artosis means it'll be cancelled soon anyway. It'd be for the better if it was.
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Everything points to this being a dick move, Artosis probably wanted more input on how the show works and JP didn't agree with his views and over time it lead to Artosis planning this. If you look into the production you can easily see this was planned for some time and you can also see Artosis spent a bit of money on this, which probably is a good thing since Artosis tends to lose focus fast on things he himself is in charge of.
But lets be honest here even if this is a megadickmove by Artosis nobody really cares and will just watch this show since Artosis has no competition. He's in a league of his own and I'd wish SC2 had more guys like him but if we're honest there aren't and we all just want to listen to him in these types of shows.
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On April 24 2013 20:46 PesteNoire wrote:
This show was a huge slap to JP's face. Also it was very boring, SOTG had a uniqueness of unintended comedy such as the sharktosis thing, this show actually proved why having a host is necessary. Really crappy thing for Artosis to do, and his reasoning at the end of his show doesn't justify this direct copy at all.
How does this even make any sense? sharktosis was because of Artosis playing with his webcam. It has NOTHING to do with SoTG. Why is this show boring compared to SoTG when it has the same cast rebranded? Please think before you circle jerk.
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Competition isn't bad. The best shall prevail.
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I loved this show, so much starcraft 2
please get day9 on, i havnt heard him talk general sc2 in forever 
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On April 24 2013 20:14 Billd wrote:See I find this aspect of the scene very interesting and I really think it is a growing pain. Artosis starting Meta reminds me a lot of Suppy joining EG. Suppy did not have a contract with CheckSix Source. Obviously losing Suppy was a big blow to CheckSix and they closed down a few weeks later. Suppy was important to CheckSix and had they had a contract with him his recruitment by EG would not of been as easy. Unfortunate for CheckSix, but also completely legitimate. It's hard to say what impact Meta will have on SOTG. As a community we gobble up content, we love these shows. However, having a show air a day before yours, with the same hosts, talking about the same things? Surely its going to have a negative impact on SOTG. You're not going to get Artosis to sign a contract that states he can't be on any other Starcraft shows. However, a well put together contract would take into consideration JP's interests, SOTG's interests as well as Artosis'. This is just one aspect too. It's possible that a contract could exist without them physically signing something, and that raises the question of whether there is a benefit/detriment relationship between them. Or "quid pro quo" which is basically a "this for that" type of deal. My mind is spinning about it actually, haha. Contract law is my worst subject.
While it is all speculation until one side or the other comments on contracts, it would be my guess that this is the biggest reason for Artosis to go on his own. I am guessing it comes down to the money.
While it may not be a lot, JP was still making money off the back of these pro players (and he was making shirts and merch soon!). While some might say it is good exposure for them, thus no need for compensation, it is also good for JP with what they bring to the show, as there would be no content, thus no show with out pro gamers. I would hope there was some sort of appearance fee per episode. If not, I can totally see where Artosis would have gone to those guys and explained his angle and hopefully compensating them for appearing on his show (he does have that tt esports money and all).
I think JP slowly drifting from the SC2 scene had a something to do with it too. As others mention, his prep for the last few episodes seemed to be going to reddit/TL and looking for the "hot" stories and going with the masses for his opinion. And given he isn't actively playing or commentating (thus doing research about the game), his analysis of the current trends of the meta game just aren't on par with those who are actively in the scene. The last time I saw him stream any Starcraft was when HotS came out and it was just the campaign, but within a week there wasn't any more of that. I can't remember the last time I heard him commentate anything. It just seems like compared to others who are in his position as an analyst/commentator (not being an actual pro) he isn't putting in nearly the amount of work in SC2 any more and is branching off into other ventures (streaming popular games for viewers, roll play).
Much respect for JP and what he has done for the scene, but people are always growing and moving on. He will still have his niche and fans, but I suspect it will be less based on Starcraft and more with gaming in general. Nothing wrong with broadening the pie of his audience to include all of gaming instead of just Starcraft, plenty of fans out there for him to grab.
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Gj Artosis, a Show of Nerds for Nerds and not a wishi washi show with 10% relevant content. Keep on going with it !
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United Kingdom12033 Posts
Where's that music from they use for the opening titles? I recognise the song but I can't work out where from.
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I liked the many comments going "JP might even agree to this, because he's such a nice person, but I don't." Same for me.
No disrespect to Artosis, he's awesome and probably the smartest caster in SC2, but that kind of blatant revamp is painful.
I can only think of one reason - raising a kid produces exponentially increasing expenses, so father Artosis has to pay the bills, so he moves SotG to his own stream, basically. That's something I can understand and accept. Also, SotG tended to have really uncomfortable hours for Artosis from Korea, and you can bet his schedule is frantic enough with little kid around.
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i have to say that i enjoyed meta more than SOTG.
Better imho:
moderation
structure
less downtime (where JP looks smth up)
less rambling and talks in Circles
accuracy of informations
Except: the chinese player comm said from the beginning that he is comm playing on his studends account. There is a reddit threat about it.
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I am beyond conflicted on this show. Part of me loves Artosis and has always wanted a weekly show by him about the meta game. The other part of me is really bummed out that this the balance/metagame discussion section of SotG without JP, run on Artosis's channel.
But I am going to withhold my final opinion until I hear more from JP and other hosts. I don't want to feed into drama where they may be none.
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I enjoyed the episode more than Pulse & the past year of State of the Game, but I find the GD show trumps it.
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Wow, i must say, the production value is far greater than it ever was on SOTG... Well done Artosis, first episode and already its so good.. Plus JP was never ever needed in a Starcraft show, and thats besides being a shitty host with zero passion for the game, UNLIKE Artosis !!
I'm totally watching this every week, just one little recommendation; remove theognis and get InControl, Day9 or Nony or anyone else but theognis, cos he's holding the show back...
Thank you! And keep up the love for e-sports, Artosis!
User was warned for this post
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EPT
