|
On April 24 2013 10:52 Voetsek wrote:
An idea for the early burrow plan/situation.
"early" burrow can become a disadvantage for the other two races if too early, however like Bilzzard say could be and should be available for zerg to help for early base defense and so on.
So how about this for thought, burrow is a passive ability for all Zerg units on creep, however off creep it should require the usual upgrades? This will give Zerg an option to defend early without the early burrow becoming an out of control issue.
oh that sounds like a interesting idea, wish blizzard would do that, but I dont really see how that would help defend or zerg do anything aggressive, it would help drones against reapers or hellion runby though i suppose
and I don't like the buff spore even more idea,
I feel then the zvz metagame would just be infestor hydra/roach swarmhosts turtle game into bls
which was essentially wol all over again
|
Am I the only one who thinks Ultralysks are way op right now? They kill everything :\
|
I dont think the patch will do anything good.
The problems are elsewhere and that are big problems.
ZvsZ: I dont really like that MU anymore, it is so coinflippy, it is basically about "how greedy can i play to get my gases up fast and how fast can i tech and take a third". So you either play extremly greedy or you allin hardcore, which is also coinflippy, if you attack too late you lose to a really greedy player that has mutas already on the way. If you attack too early you dont have enough impact to do any dmg. Then it comes down to all the greedy "i get A LOT OF GAS REALLY FAST TO GET A LOT OF MUTAS". Once you are behind in the muta numbers it becomes really hard to get back into the game.
ZvsT: I think that MU is so imbalanced i would call it broken (well it may be the zerg bias speaking out of me). I will see a huge terra dominance towards the zergs if there arent any fixes in the future.
ZvsP: I think the MU is ok until it reaches a point where you cant hurt the toss anymore and then it turns into a huge 1h long turtlefest since you cant fight their army straight up. Corrupters are complete and utter trash as antiair...they are hardcountered by a air/air air/ground unit as a air/air only unit, that tells the story... Also they dont do any dmg against collossi, vipers are the much better choice here. So basically you have a completly useless unit. Muats are a huge pain in the ass for the toss, but once he committs to more stargates you have to turtle up and then it turns into the turtlefest again.
|
On April 24 2013 11:03 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 10:52 Voetsek wrote:
An idea for the early burrow plan/situation.
"early" burrow can become a disadvantage for the other two races if too early, however like Bilzzard say could be and should be available for zerg to help for early base defense and so on.
So how about this for thought, burrow is a passive ability for all Zerg units on creep, however off creep it should require the usual upgrades? This will give Zerg an option to defend early without the early burrow becoming an out of control issue. I'm unsure about this. It basically would mean that you can't kill drones without a scan/overseer/obs/oracle, which would significantly strengthen Z against early harass. The problem then is that they wouldn't need to dedicate any larvae to remaking drones, and they're gonna have a lot more units a lot faster. I think it'd be fine vT given the potential of widows and tanks, but could really skew ZvP.
I think if they make it burrow cheap and hatch tech it'll be a problem in zvt because of baneling land mines making the zerg pretty damn safe.
|
On April 24 2013 11:05 eden-san wrote:
I still don't understand why there's no energy cost on the medivacs boost.
Because that would be a buff vs Protoss (boost to prevent feedback 1 shots etc)
|
I like how these changes are intended to increase the hype and not decrease it.
|
Why is Blizzard so completely and utterly against making the hydralisk a good unit? Buffing its anti-air would help in Muta vs Muta, against air Toss, and could even help against drop play. But no, let's think about buffing spore crawlers instead. I don't understand the reasoning behind this.
If burrow was 50/50 and was faster at actually burrowing that'd be interesting. I don't think it'd do a whole lot but it's worth looking into.
As for the oracle, I don't think it's the speed that is the problem with the unit. It kind of feels like an all-in at the moment. Either I scout it and can defend it without any damage or I don't and I die.
I'm disappointed in these suggestions but hopefully they'll think of something else.
|
the spore change is going to make a good change but i think you need something better to deal with those mutas
|
Has it been considered to tweak Fungal to ground biological flying units for its duration (a la Ensnare)?
|
On April 24 2013 07:56 ishmoks wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 03:25 Rabiator wrote:On April 24 2013 03:20 Shikyo wrote:
SC2 harder for casuals than BW? I mean... that's just completely off. The players who were attacking with 5 Zealots and 3 Dragoons at 10min in BW with their 40 APM are now platinum in SC2. SC2 is far more casual-centric. Thats just stupid, because you have to do FAR MORE multitasking .... just argue with the things I mentioned which make any kind of casual strategy harder. Did you ever get killed in a few minutes because your opponent made one or two Reapers and jumped into your walled off base and you werent ready for it? That is a stupid and not really satisfying way for a game to be played. BW simply did not have these gimmicks and was much simpler and thus easier to play for a casual ... If you dont want to accept that it is just Blizzard propaganda about the awesome unlimited unit selection ... which is stupid and the cause for many balance issues. Your suggestions for changes in the game make the game really BORING. That's like asking the NBA to take out slam dunks and fade aways from basketball just because the "casuals" can't do it like the pros do. BORING.
Yeah small engagements (with 1a deathballs being removed out of the game) sure are more BORING than a big deathball huh?
BORING small engagements...
|
On April 24 2013 12:08 Deezl wrote:
I like how these changes are intended to increase the hype and not decrease it.
What hype? I feel no hype at all concerning this game right now.
|
On April 24 2013 13:40 Patate wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 07:56 ishmoks wrote:On April 24 2013 03:25 Rabiator wrote:On April 24 2013 03:20 Shikyo wrote:
SC2 harder for casuals than BW? I mean... that's just completely off. The players who were attacking with 5 Zealots and 3 Dragoons at 10min in BW with their 40 APM are now platinum in SC2. SC2 is far more casual-centric. Thats just stupid, because you have to do FAR MORE multitasking .... just argue with the things I mentioned which make any kind of casual strategy harder. Did you ever get killed in a few minutes because your opponent made one or two Reapers and jumped into your walled off base and you werent ready for it? That is a stupid and not really satisfying way for a game to be played. BW simply did not have these gimmicks and was much simpler and thus easier to play for a casual ... If you dont want to accept that it is just Blizzard propaganda about the awesome unlimited unit selection ... which is stupid and the cause for many balance issues. Your suggestions for changes in the game make the game really BORING. That's like asking the NBA to take out slam dunks and fade aways from basketball just because the "casuals" can't do it like the pros do. BORING. Yeah small engagements (with 1a deathballs being removed out of the game) sure are more BORING than a big deathball huh? BORING small engagements...
You should read the entire conversation to get the context on what was being discussed. Nobody is saying small engagements are boring. People just don't think gimmicky coin flippy style strategies are a "good" thing.
|
zvz updates sound great, too much muta strats at the moment (pretty much all non-all ins are muta at the moment), could be changed later again, once metagame has shifted back to ground units. oracle speed boost could be nice, but dammage should be reduced to make it work, otherwise a casual oracle could not only give a huge advantage, but now also win the game with no skill needed. as for burrow, this sounds like infinite zerg cheese. as a terran you will be needing to waste scans (270 mineral) to kill a zergling (25 mineral) everytime you want to make a building, or just land one (for example cc at exp). banelings will be burrowed in your base just after use your first scan, and 3 min before protos get their observer (with no robo build) and not to mention even more powerfull roach timing attacks or should i just say all-ins/cheese. the updates sound interesting but plz dont ruin the decent metagame with the burrow upgrade (this is a zerg talking). burrow should be a techpath to choose from and not a standard tech all zergs need (like ling speed). it would be like reducing the cost of stim, something all non-terrans would complain about (and maybe even terrans).
|
honestly they should just do something to make the oracle less gimmicky, a buff in movement speed is not the way to go at all, it's already damn fast.
give it a hp/sield boost, increase production time and lower the cost for the other spells so that the protoss actually can choose to save energy to use them, not just "oh i have spare energy, well let's just use these spells since I can't harass with oracle anymore now in mid game"
|
On April 24 2013 15:00 ETisME wrote:
honestly they should just do something to make the oracle less gimmicky, a buff in movement speed is not the way to go at all, it's already damn fast.
give it a hp/sield boost, increase production time and lower the cost for the other spells so that the protoss actually can choose to save energy to use them, not just "oh i have spare energy, well let's just use these spells since I can't harass with oracle anymore now in mid game"
I think the point of the speed buff is to allow protoss more options with the oracle in the later game. It'll be safer to track an army and get off an revelation without losing the oracle.
Further, using the oracle for emergency detection (envision) will also be easier as the oracle could make it to a base/army slightly quicker.
Alternatively some upgrade (from cybernetics core) that follows your suggestion could work well too.
|
On April 23 2013 09:33 Vlare wrote:
Oh god... All this wait for a patch and we get this. Disappointed doesn't even begin to describe my feelings. Hope they fix Protoss while they fix zerg.
1 month and 2 weeks is not too long...
I really appreciate Blizzard and David Kim in addressing issues and giving more variety to the game. This is probably why I love Starcraft and almost every time these balance change anouncements make sense to me. But well, haters will hate.
|
On April 24 2013 11:45 omnic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 11:03 Daralii wrote:On April 24 2013 10:52 Voetsek wrote:
An idea for the early burrow plan/situation.
"early" burrow can become a disadvantage for the other two races if too early, however like Bilzzard say could be and should be available for zerg to help for early base defense and so on.
So how about this for thought, burrow is a passive ability for all Zerg units on creep, however off creep it should require the usual upgrades? This will give Zerg an option to defend early without the early burrow becoming an out of control issue. I'm unsure about this. It basically would mean that you can't kill drones without a scan/overseer/obs/oracle, which would significantly strengthen Z against early harass. The problem then is that they wouldn't need to dedicate any larvae to remaking drones, and they're gonna have a lot more units a lot faster. I think it'd be fine vT given the potential of widows and tanks, but could really skew ZvP. I think if they make it burrow cheap and hatch tech
it already is hatch tech.
|
On April 24 2013 15:13 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 15:00 ETisME wrote:
honestly they should just do something to make the oracle less gimmicky, a buff in movement speed is not the way to go at all, it's already damn fast.
give it a hp/sield boost, increase production time and lower the cost for the other spells so that the protoss actually can choose to save energy to use them, not just "oh i have spare energy, well let's just use these spells since I can't harass with oracle anymore now in mid game" I think the point of the speed buff is to allow protoss more options with the oracle in the later game. It'll be safer to track an army and get off an revelation without losing the oracle. Further, using the oracle for emergency detection (envision) will also be easier as the oracle could make it to a base/army slightly quicker. Alternatively some upgrade (from cybernetics core) that follows your suggestion could work well too.
I think the problem with the speed increase is that it just encourages players to abuse oracle even more in the early game and make it an even more gmmicky unit.
I can see oracle revelation being useful, it's just protoss isn't lacking a cloak reveal unit/spell. blizzard should make it into a more beefy, more utility, less gimmicky unit.
|
On April 23 2013 10:06 ETisME wrote:
Oracle speed is insane already. Why is everything so fast nowadays with speedmedivac and new muta
Nothing on terran drop only style which is disappointing
I agree on this, why in the world there must be stupidly fast stuff??
The muta problem is because of the silly hots muta buff.
Now at higher levels ZvZ muta wars is worse than ever, AND PvZ is forced to Stargate builds.
And ofc, zero comments on the hellbat/mine/speedvacs situation. Disapointing.
|
All the changes I think are welcome. Even though I play Protoss I am not sure about the Oracle change (I don't like to use the unit too much, maybe the change will make me try it more). As long as they don't make the Oracle faster than the Phoenix it should be a positive change. Maybe make it slightly slower than the Phoenix (in regards to the PvP matchup) so that a Phoenix can still snipe it effectively. It should make games more interesting to watch.
I would very much so like to see a more convenient way to get Burrow. I think the mechanic in and of itself is very interesting especially with Roaches, as they do regenerate quite quickly when burrowed.
The change to ZvZ has to be made. I cannot stand watching the ZvZ matchup however good the players are. It feels incredibly frustrating to watch a game of 'who gets the first hit'. This isn't LoL.
I'd like to see a change to the Hellbat in some way. It's quite difficult as the Hellion is in a good place in my opinion and changing the cost / supply cost of the Hellbat would affect the Hellion as well. I'm not sure, maybe the two units just have to be separated. Another option would be to change the health or damage output of the Hellbat, but by how much?
I think the game is in a great position in terms of balance at the moment and especially so after these changes. The one thing that remains to be seen is whether or not they'll do anything to the Hellbat.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
