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On April 10 2013 20:09 GeOnoSis wrote:
Overlords are slow, yes even with speed they are slow and waiting for a long time for 2 widow mine shots that you COULD MAYBE TRIGGER before they die is not really worth it. I agree with many of you that zerg players just need to get used to it and you can do okay against them when playing perfectly against them.. but a units strength is not only about the pure damage (which can already be really insane) but also the effort, the oppponent has to put in to defend it. It's kind of like drops, especially with speed now: They're easy to pull off but really hard to defend.
"Overlords are slow" - You won't adapt if you keep thinking in your traditional patterns. But then don't look for excuses in balance whining.
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On April 09 2013 21:36 Hypemeup wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 21:34 Flonomenalz wrote:On April 09 2013 21:27 Hypemeup wrote:
Life can deal with mines just fine apparently.
Other zergs need to step it the fuck up, much like terrans were told to step up to taeja/mvps level of play. Lol interesting that you say that. I recall most Terrans saying "Just because MVP is beating Zerg doesn't mean we can play like him. Be realistic". Now it's "Life is doing fine, Zerg step up". I think it may be a bit too early to say, but the widow mine is definitely way too easy to use as opposed to what Zerg has to do to minimize it. A bit more time, we'll see what happens. I think everyone can aggre that the game should be balanced for the highest level of play. And I did not say terrans were happy being told this, but Zergs still loved to spout it all the time.
I seriously doubt everyone can agree on that. Sure it is important that is balanced, but that doesnt mean lower levels should be ignored. However that is another discussion.
Btw problem of delaying fire by giving mines constantly new targets is mainly what happens when you stop giving them new targets? Correct me if wrong, but won't all your widow mines attack the last target, resulting in enormous overkill? Unless you can retarget every single widow mine in 1.5 seconds manually.
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Just transition into Infestors as fast as possible and fungal everything to death 
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If terran has pure marine as his bio units and a decently low medivac count then fungals do fine against this. Despite the nerf its still hard to dodge the fungal.
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On April 09 2013 20:29 ejozl wrote:
They surely makes lings obsolete, unless you can make it to the Marines and do friendly splash damage.
Think you need either Roaches, Swarm Host, Ultras, Infestor to shoot in a couple of infested terrans first or a bunch of overlords with your army to soak up some of the Widow Mine damage.
I think this is a very nice idea, specially because it returns the festor to a pivotal role against bio.
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On April 10 2013 22:26 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 21:36 Hypemeup wrote:On April 09 2013 21:34 Flonomenalz wrote:On April 09 2013 21:27 Hypemeup wrote:
Life can deal with mines just fine apparently.
Other zergs need to step it the fuck up, much like terrans were told to step up to taeja/mvps level of play. Lol interesting that you say that. I recall most Terrans saying "Just because MVP is beating Zerg doesn't mean we can play like him. Be realistic". Now it's "Life is doing fine, Zerg step up". I think it may be a bit too early to say, but the widow mine is definitely way too easy to use as opposed to what Zerg has to do to minimize it. A bit more time, we'll see what happens. I think everyone can aggre that the game should be balanced for the highest level of play. And I did not say terrans were happy being told this, but Zergs still loved to spout it all the time. I seriously doubt everyone can agree on that. Sure it is important that is balanced, but that doesnt mean lower levels should be ignored. However that is another discussion. Btw problem of delaying fire by giving mines constantly new targets is mainly what happens when you stop giving them new targets? Correct me if wrong, but won't all your widow mines attack the last target, resulting in enormous overkill? Unless you can retarget every single widow mine in 1.5 seconds manually.
For what I've seen, WM has some sort of intelligent targeting to avoid overkilling (like Siege-tanks do)
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zerg is used to auto win vs terran, give them time
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I like Infestor bombs against widow mine users, just need to get the opened clumped somewhere and it is like a burrowed instant damage fungal. It is a high energy investment though and usually needs the opponent to have burrowed mines, which is a mistake anyway. Aside from that I plug them out of the ground with Vipers. Just be careful to not get a mine that is currently burrowing. If you ever accidentally lifted one with your phoenix you know what I mean. (don't know if this bug is already fixed)
Can't wait till pros are at the point where they conter the widow mines with spell casters (after every Terran will targetfire with them triggering will be near impossible). So we will see some ghost usage in return as siege tanks don't work anymore for splash vs Zerg.
My favorite against mines is something really gimmicky though. Whenever they are pure Bio/Widow Mine and the Mines are a bit away from the Bio. Unburrow -> Neural -> Image the Oh sh.. expression of your opponent.
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On April 09 2013 20:30 TeeTS wrote:
The best thing to lure out Widow Mine shots are speed overlords. I wonder when pro players will realise that.
It's ok, our secret hero PsY is already on that.
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On April 10 2013 20:09 GeOnoSis wrote:
Overlords are slow, yes even with speed they are slow and waiting for a long time for 2 widow mine shots that you COULD MAYBE TRIGGER before they die is not really worth it. I agree with many of you that zerg players just need to get used to it and you can do okay against them when playing perfectly against them.. but a units strength is not only about the pure damage (which can already be really insane) but also the effort, the oppponent has to put in to defend it. It's kind of like drops, especially with speed now: They're easy to pull off but really hard to defend.
What exactly would the overlords die to in this comp besides the mines? Marines? If the bio steps out onto the minefield to try and get the overlords, then the lings+army can swoop in and and the terran will lose a whole lot just to the splash damage from his own mines and tanks. Admittedly if terran starts to make a large group of vikings they could zone out the overlords, but those aren't usually made preemptively.
It's still better to transition to another composition though, (ultras was a good suggestion), as muta/ling/bane is not made for a straight up engagement; it's made to harass a ton, and only when the enemy is wounded and the army can be overwhelmed does it go in for a fight.
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Zerg players just need to think of a new approach to dealing with Terran. Clearly the old MLB tactic is not working, why not learn to use new unit comps? I hear swarm hosts are pretty good, and vipers as well. Infestors do good against the the current "tankless" style that's so popular nowadays.
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Maybe a stupid idea (I don't play Z) but, if you already have blings, why not play a mine vs mine game? burrow banes and just keep the T pinned with fake muta swoop in? The aim is not to win the engagement (ling-bling-muta is not designed to win engagements anyway) but to make almost impossible for the T to gain ground while teching to hive?
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On April 09 2013 20:31 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 20:30 TeeTS wrote:
The best thing to lure out Widow Mine shots are speed overlords. I wonder when pro players will realise that. Was it Life who did that to Flash at MLG or was it Ret? It was so sick.
Life, obviously. Do you think anyone else is capable of doing such things? He was doing stuff like that vs all 3 of this terran opponents.
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On April 11 2013 02:49 LgNKami wrote:
Zerg players just need to think of a new approach to dealing with Terran. Clearly the old MLB tactic is not working, why not learn to use new unit comps? I hear swarm hosts are pretty good, and vipers as well. Infestors do good against the the current "tankless" style that's so popular nowadays.
What's the plan against drops? The one and only reason for going mutalisk is defence against speed medivacs in the midgame. Swarm hosts and infestors are both good and should be added in the late game, but going straight to either as your first lair tech is asking to be picked apart due to lack of mobility.
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EPT
