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The classic Zerg "Swoop-in" MutaLB attack in HotS - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Wildmoon
Profile Joined December 2011
Thailand4189 Posts
April 09 2013 11:48 GMT
#21
I have seen Life did this. It's completely doable.
TeeTS
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany2762 Posts
April 09 2013 11:50 GMT
#22
On April 09 2013 20:48 Wildmoon wrote:
I have seen Life did this. It's completely doable.


Ok then I forgot this haha ^^. It kinda gives the impression, that only Life seems to understand Zerg really good xX
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
April 09 2013 11:54 GMT
#23
On April 09 2013 20:33 kaluro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2013 20:26 TheDwf wrote:
On April 09 2013 20:22 kaluro wrote:
You can also even keep holding the S button so they won't fire, very effective.

Wrong.


Yes you can

No. Holding the S key while Mines are burrowed has zero effect. Stop spreading misinformation.
Obsi
Profile Joined June 2011
87 Posts
April 09 2013 11:56 GMT
#24
Well as most of the people already said before: Often Times the lings will just die or maybe get 1 Widow Mine hit out of sometimes 8+ Mines. and like 10 Lings (250 Minerals) is not costefficient at all for 1 (free ) Mine.
It surely is doable, but it is much much harder for the zerg and requires a lot of multitasking and might not even work for basically nothing from the terran. It is the possibility of 1 Mine killing 15 banes/Drones/Lings that makes me think whether this unit should really stay the way it is, but since this is not the topic and I don't want to get banned I have to make something up to come back to the real topic.

You can do that, especially roaches are pretty good, but if you go for ling bane muta, roach warren plus roaches (and maybe even roach speed) is still pretty expensive and widow mines are just really frckin cost efficient.

Love your write-up btw, especially the last line. Sorry for bad english/mistakes. gl hf.
Wait what.
xongnox
Profile Joined November 2011
540 Posts
April 09 2013 11:57 GMT
#25
On April 09 2013 20:04 Sated wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2013 19:47 Dubz wrote:
We all know what it looked like in WoL, mutalisks, zerglings, and banelings all swarming en masse towards terran bio, the zerglings absorbing as many tank shots as they could, banelings chasing the marines as they split and ran to avoid maximum damage, while mutalisks attempted to clean up any tanks or medivacs that were available targets.

Well, I am watching the GSL and it seems that even top level zergs like DongRaeGu think this is still a valid concept vs widow mines. Watching it, it seemed so simple to me after that battle:

Why doesnt DRG just send in 10-12 lings at first, to just soak up the widow mine cool downs? or perhaps 1-2 mutalisks at the same time as well? Or maybe even make a few roaches, research burrow movement (as burrow is given for free now) and spread out a few roaches underground while moving towards the terran army, unburrow within widow mine range, cancel out all the VERY LONG cool downs, and then do the classic zerg swoop in. both of those seem extremely cost effective measures to counter widow mines, hopefully zergs can catch onto this as I think it will be the new metagame.

What are your thoughts? Do you think this is the way the metagame is headed? Do you think I'm an idiot? Discuss!

If the Terran army is near their Mines then their army will kill 10-12 Zerglings or 1-2 Mutalisks before the Mines get triggered.

Just accept it. Mines are a broken unit, both design wise and balance wise.



lulz. Life did exactly that at MLG (vs Polt, Flash, Last), timing attack with billion ling/bling, but withotu mutas. Properly timed and micro-ed, it hard counter bio-mine (coz u had like few mines for 50 speed banes ), and terran need some simcity / tanks on cliff to hold that.

Btw, when zerg micro correctly+ know how to abuse his mobility, like we see in Kr (and not like do nothing -> run into perfect positioned landmines ala patchzerg foreigner ), mines seems weak.
MisterTea
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1047 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-09 12:01:00
April 09 2013 11:58 GMT
#26
Zergs need to start teching faster to Ultra ling infestor when terrans go widow mine/bio, Ultras soak up the mine hits so well + they destroy terran bio now.

Demuslims new style hes been playing with looks like it could be scarey though, instead of marauders he builds hellbats to Destroy ling/bane while tanking hits with widow mines/marines the lings die so fast you cant get surrounds to help ultras so need the money shot fungals

On April 09 2013 20:04 Sated wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2013 19:47 Dubz wrote:
We all know what it looked like in WoL, mutalisks, zerglings, and banelings all swarming en masse towards terran bio, the zerglings absorbing as many tank shots as they could, banelings chasing the marines as they split and ran to avoid maximum damage, while mutalisks attempted to clean up any tanks or medivacs that were available targets.

Well, I am watching the GSL and it seems that even top level zergs like DongRaeGu think this is still a valid concept vs widow mines. Watching it, it seemed so simple to me after that battle:

Why doesnt DRG just send in 10-12 lings at first, to just soak up the widow mine cool downs? or perhaps 1-2 mutalisks at the same time as well? Or maybe even make a few roaches, research burrow movement (as burrow is given for free now) and spread out a few roaches underground while moving towards the terran army, unburrow within widow mine range, cancel out all the VERY LONG cool downs, and then do the classic zerg swoop in. both of those seem extremely cost effective measures to counter widow mines, hopefully zergs can catch onto this as I think it will be the new metagame.

What are your thoughts? Do you think this is the way the metagame is headed? Do you think I'm an idiot? Discuss!

If the Terran army is near their Mines then their army will kill 10-12 Zerglings or 1-2 Mutalisks before the Mines get triggered.

Just accept it. Mines are a broken unit, both design wise and balance wise.

MINES are not the problem the player is, not adapting to new units and expect to be able to a move into aoe fire.
Life does fine vs widow mines as people have already mentioned since he actually micros against the mines
arkedos
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany1426 Posts
April 09 2013 12:03 GMT
#27
On April 09 2013 20:58 MisterTea wrote:

MINES are not the problem the player is, not adapting to new units and expect to be able to a move into aoe fire.
Life does fine vs widow mines as people have already mentioned since he actually micros against the mines



Totally agree, still some zergs have to learn that the game consists of more than pressing the Z button hard until it breaks.
love esports - hate homophobia
mau5mat
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Northern Ireland461 Posts
April 09 2013 12:06 GMT
#28
I'm just waiting for Zergs to understand that infestors are still good vs MMMM, and Ultras are amazing
MHT
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1026 Posts
April 09 2013 12:13 GMT
#29
Couldn't you make a few corruptors to just suicide towards the army and trigger the mines before you engage? If you have enough they could even kill the marines by flying over them when the mines go off.
Sjokola
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands800 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-09 12:22:29
April 09 2013 12:19 GMT
#30
Overlords can tank pretty well don't they? But you'd need speed. I haven't tried it. But maybe that could be a solution in the future.
And zergs never spread. Their banelings almost always form a small ball. That would be bad vs tanks also.
gobbledydook
Profile Joined October 2012
Australia2605 Posts
April 09 2013 12:23 GMT
#31
On April 09 2013 21:13 MHT wrote:
Couldn't you make a few corruptors to just suicide towards the army and trigger the mines before you engage? If you have enough they could even kill the marines by flying over them when the mines go off.


As everyone else said, Overlords are cheaper and do the same thing.
I am a dirty Protoss bullshit abuser
kaluro
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands760 Posts
April 09 2013 12:23 GMT
#32
On April 09 2013 20:34 TeeTS wrote:
yeah. It's not that you have anything else to do as terran.


It can do wonders right before a big engagement where the zerg leads with a few units, I've seen DeMuslim do this a lot in big fights and get great hits off.
www.twitch.tv/kaluroo - 720p60fps - Remember the name! - Don't do your best, do whatever it takes.
Cuce
Profile Joined March 2011
Turkey1127 Posts
April 09 2013 12:26 GMT
#33
its hard. most of the time the this is the answer to such questions. its not that easy to judge the right amount of lings to use, spread them accordingly and send them to right places, espacially in middle of macro frenzy, espacially against more mobile army of mine marine medivac instead of tank marine medivac.
64K RAM SYSTEM 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE
Hypemeup
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden2783 Posts
April 09 2013 12:27 GMT
#34
Life can deal with mines just fine apparently.

Other zergs need to step it the fuck up, much like terrans were told to step up to taeja/mvps level of play.
TeeTS
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany2762 Posts
April 09 2013 12:29 GMT
#35
On April 09 2013 21:26 Cuce wrote:
its hard. most of the time the this is the answer to such questions. its not that easy to judge the right amount of lings to use, spread them accordingly and send them to right places, espacially in middle of macro frenzy, espacially against more mobile army of mine marine medivac instead of tank marine medivac.


I don't like to repeat myself, but: USE DAMN OVERLORDS. They have the best hitpoint/cost ratio in the game and are flying units that don't cost any supply. You won't get anything better for the job!
Flonomenalz
Profile Joined May 2011
Nigeria3519 Posts
April 09 2013 12:34 GMT
#36
On April 09 2013 21:27 Hypemeup wrote:
Life can deal with mines just fine apparently.

Other zergs need to step it the fuck up, much like terrans were told to step up to taeja/mvps level of play.

Lol interesting that you say that. I recall most Terrans saying "Just because MVP is beating Zerg doesn't mean we can play like him. Be realistic".

Now it's "Life is doing fine, Zerg step up".

I think it may be a bit too early to say, but the widow mine is definitely way too easy to use as opposed to what Zerg has to do to minimize it. A bit more time, we'll see what happens.
I love crazymoving
Hypemeup
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden2783 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-09 12:37:02
April 09 2013 12:36 GMT
#37
On April 09 2013 21:34 Flonomenalz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2013 21:27 Hypemeup wrote:
Life can deal with mines just fine apparently.

Other zergs need to step it the fuck up, much like terrans were told to step up to taeja/mvps level of play.

Lol interesting that you say that. I recall most Terrans saying "Just because MVP is beating Zerg doesn't mean we can play like him. Be realistic".

Now it's "Life is doing fine, Zerg step up".

I think it may be a bit too early to say, but the widow mine is definitely way too easy to use as opposed to what Zerg has to do to minimize it. A bit more time, we'll see what happens.


I think everyone can aggre that the game should be balanced for the highest level of play.

And I did not say terrans were happy being told this, but Zergs still loved to spout it all the time.
Ender985
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Spain910 Posts
April 09 2013 12:54 GMT
#38
Use your overlords, zergs.
Member of the Pirate Party - direct democracy, institutional transparency, and freedom of information
Obsi
Profile Joined June 2011
87 Posts
April 10 2013 11:09 GMT
#39
Overlords are slow, yes even with speed they are slow and waiting for a long time for 2 widow mine shots that you COULD MAYBE TRIGGER before they die is not really worth it. I agree with many of you that zerg players just need to get used to it and you can do okay against them when playing perfectly against them.. but a units strength is not only about the pure damage (which can already be really insane) but also the effort, the oppponent has to put in to defend it. It's kind of like drops, especially with speed now: They're easy to pull off but really hard to defend.
Wait what.
Champi
Profile Joined March 2010
1422 Posts
April 10 2013 11:32 GMT
#40
i think once zergs learn to accept that fungal growth is gonna take a bit more skill to use, they will finally realise that there is no reason why fungal growth with ultra or BLord shouldnt work fine vs MMMM, u can argue about immobility but corrupters and static defense are really good vs medivac drops in the late game.

i honestly think zergs are just saying to themselves... well fungal got nerfed to shit, and we got new stuff, lets use the new stuff since fungals weak now... when really they should start experimenting with infestors and fungal again in addition to the new compositions...
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