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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
On April 24 2013 09:12 RyLai wrote: Players are getting much better at dealing with Widow Mines and pulling off singular units to set them off instead of rushing in. + Show Spoiler + Parting | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On April 24 2013 09:12 RyLai wrote: Remember when people complained about MMM at the start of WoL and Protosses HATED Marauders? Now they're eh. Give people time, and Widow Mines won't be as amazing. A slight nerf maybe, but that's all. Players are getting much better at dealing with Widow Mines and pulling off singular units to set them off instead of rushing in. Obviously the Stalker buff and the marauder nerf fixed that. Right? I mean--marauders no longer auto kill stalker heavy compositions--there must have been a nerf? Right? Because I refuse to believe that players simply adapted--that's ludicrous. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On April 24 2013 12:06 Thieving Magpie wrote: Obviously the Stalker buff and the marauder nerf fixed that. Right? I mean--marauders no longer auto kill stalker heavy compositions--there must have been a nerf? Right? Because I refuse to believe that players simply adapted--that's ludicrous. I'd argue a lot of players don't adapt, but races tend to as a whole. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On April 24 2013 12:14 aksfjh wrote: I'd argue a lot of players don't adapt, but races tend to as a whole. I have no arguments against and I definitely have been guilty of it (never going 1rax expand until pros started doing it, for example) | ||
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riceant
Canada54 Posts
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On April 25 2013 13:33 EleanorRIgby wrote: people are still complaining about widow mines? They were awesome at the start because everyone just ran in to them, but now there pretty meh. They are mostly used in tvz but more and more players are mixing in hellbats instead of widow mines now. Oh stop with that observing empirical data and using it to construct your opinions BS, this is a community forum not a lab! | ||
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Longtimer
490 Posts
Players are getting much better at dealing with Widow Mines and pulling off singular units to set them off instead of rushing in. You could say that, but I also think you could argue that a lot of Terran players have yet to figure out how to position their widow mines. I mean, one zergling shouldn't really be enough to trigger the mine to go off, and watching one mine kill half of the Terran army because of friendly fire pains a little bit as well. My biggest fear for TvZ is that once the Terran gets enough mines out, and good upgrades on their bio (plus maybe a Raven or two), they will be able to trade too cost efficiently with whatever a Zerg can throw at them. Of course, you can just "fucking baneling bust them", as JP would say, but I think that once the Terran players get their builds and scouting figured out, they will know enough about how to position themselves (and maybe even get a siege tank). | ||
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RotterdamBlt
Canada46 Posts
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Snoodles
401 Posts
On April 26 2013 00:30 Thieving Magpie wrote: Oh stop with that observing empirical data and using it to construct your opinions BS, this is a community forum not a lab! You think too highly of your own arguments. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On April 26 2013 01:03 Snoodles wrote: You think too highly of your own arguments. Life, Roro, Curious, and Symbol can do it--I don't see the problem. It's easy enough to solve with micro--why complain that you have to work harder? | ||
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
On April 24 2013 09:11 ktimekiller wrote: Quit being delusional. Infestors were buffed both directly and indirectly before they actually became useful. They were actually useful before though, the idea Blizzard has with buffing something just to encourage people to use it has some truth to it. It was also not until after the fungal changes that people realized how powerful infested terrans were, which were even nerfed because of how much they were used. People used to think the infested terran was a crap spell before the fungal change. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On April 26 2013 03:12 Treemonkeys wrote: They were actually useful before though, the idea Blizzard has with buffing something just to encourage people to use it has some truth to it. It was also not until after the fungal changes that people realized how powerful infested terrans were, which were even nerfed because of how much they were used. People used to think the infested terran was a crap spell before the fungal change. 4 second root vs 8 second root The "buff" people talked about was actually a nerf to the part of fungal that people called OP... | ||
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Homework
United States283 Posts
On April 26 2013 03:28 Thieving Magpie wrote: 4 second root vs 8 second root The "buff" people talked about was actually a nerf to the part of fungal that people called OP... But this also turned out to be more of a buff than Blizzard expected, because it still did the same amount of damage over half the time. This turned infestors from "tickle monsters" who could lock down armies for a while but couldn't actually kill them, into the AOE-damage dealing monsters we saw at the end of WOL. The widow mine is good, yes. But we need even more data before we can say anything about it yet, and even longer before we change anything. A month of data is not long enough to construct an argument. | ||
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Evangelist
1246 Posts
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
one of them had 80% win in TvZ and about 20-30% win in TvT/TvP (His win in TvT might have been higher Im not sure). Its amazing how most of these Terrans have been practicing TvZ for so long and are now TvZ specialists / gm-level TvZ. Unfortunately TvT and TvP seem to require different mechanics and fundamental skills and thats prob why theyre lacking in those matchups :/ Also, Im pretty sure theyve been practicing the wrong way because these guys more often than not have REALLY bad multitasking/macro skills, but hey it doesnt matter since theyre winning anyway :D If anyone of you reading this know such a T, please ask him about his tactics etc, Im genuinly curious as how theyve been able to practice and develop one particular matchup in that way  | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Saumure
France404 Posts
On April 25 2013 13:33 EleanorRIgby wrote: people are still complaining about widow mines? They were awesome at the start because everyone just ran in to them, but now there pretty meh. They are mostly used in tvz but more and more players are mixing in hellbats instead of widow mines now. The problem is that not everyone has so much APM that mines don't do damage no more. Sometimes my overseer gets sniped, and I just dont see it. I just got smashed hard by a terran (in ZvT ofc, both high dia). It was on Star station in close position. He kept pushing toward me with MMM&Mines, the problem beeing that he always left mines burrowed after a push, so that they killed the drones I was transfering or the units that were coming out for reinforcement. I think it would be fair if mines would do friendly fire on themselves... | ||
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BigBossX
United Kingdom357 Posts
On April 26 2013 04:57 NEEDZMOAR wrote: Today I met a couple of terrans who were previously platinum and mid diamond as highest league ever, they were all now top masters. one of them had 80% win in TvZ and about 20-30% win in TvT/TvP (His win in TvT might have been higher Im not sure). Its amazing how most of these Terrans have been practicing TvZ for so long and are now TvZ specialists / gm-level TvZ. Unfortunately TvT and TvP seem to require different mechanics and fundamental skills and thats prob why theyre lacking in those matchups :/ Also, Im pretty sure theyve been practicing the wrong way because these guys more often than not have REALLY bad multitasking/macro skills, but hey it doesnt matter since theyre winning anyway :D If anyone of you reading this know such a T, please ask him about his tactics etc, Im genuinly curious as how theyve been able to practice and develop one particular matchup in that way Absolute bull shit, I don't believe this for even a second. Masters players will win over diamonds and platinums with sheer mechanics alone. Also its highly unlikely a player can consistently lose 2/3 matchups and still maintain masters. Stop throwing fuel onto the fire for this retarded zerg whine. | ||
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DeathProfessor
United States1052 Posts
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