what i read as the only changes are in korean leagues.. but they gonna announce ON KOREA ( or in my english is sux ) about a change on e-sports sc2 all aroudn the globe?
Yes, I'd be curious to know where he got that information as well. I was under the impression that the rest of the world would only have the opportunity to eat one "crap". This news of multiple "craps" is exciting.
On March 27 2013 04:43 farvacola wrote: Yes, I'd be curious to know where he got that information as well. I was under the impression that the rest of the world would only have the opportunity to eat one "crap". This news of multiple "craps" is exciting.
Oh, don't be a jerk. The broken English was cute, and we all understood what he meant.
That having been said, I have no idea how he inferred that from what has been discussed so far.
On March 27 2013 02:16 sitromit wrote: As if EU and NA haven't always had more opportunities for up-and-coming players than Korea... What tournament can an up-an-coming Korean player play in? What do they have to motivate themselves with? Winning the GSL? Because that's an easily attainable goal?
People complain that the foreigners are demotivated because they can't win an MLG with 10 Koreans. What are all the Korean Code B players supposed to do then, when they're playing against Jaedong in the Code A qualifiers?
Koreans didn't have the Zotacs and Playhems and the multitude of online tournaments that EU and NA players had for a very long time. For a while, the Korean Weekly was the only tournament for up-and-comers to show themselves and even that doesn't exist anymore.
I ask once again, if regional leagues are supposed to raise the skill level, where are all the incredibly skilled players coming out of the Taiwanese league that has been going on for a long time now, and has everything that regional lockout advocates claim as the recipe for success?
koreans have an entire team house based talent development system that draws from up and coming players and trains them full time for team leagues and the code a qualifiers.
westerners get $100 weekly tournaments.
yes, clearly the koreans are behind.
In many ways, they are behind. If Alex Garfield had a Kespa style house in Arizona, he'd be arrested for violations of child labor laws. Korean society really needs to catch up and not have kids drop out of school to pursue a progaming career.
I'd choose the NA/EU scene over the KR scene any day because at least NA/EU players will have graduated high school, and many hold college degrees. They at least have a shot at a post-gaming career.
What is this I don't even... Cuz this is totally unheard of in all other sports right? The only way to be the best at anything is to do it from a young age. Any idea how much time and effort young kids that turn into successful athletes put into sports? Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. Your attitude is exactly why foreigners suck in comparison. They're trying to finish school, start playing basketball at 16-18 and then make the NBA lol This kind of mentality pretty much proves that foreigners don't see e-sports as a legitimate career, and only something you do for a few years and then go back to "real post-gaming life", where the koreans see it as any other sport. That is exaclty why we get dominated, just like we should.
Wow some people lol
Playing professionally != playing. There's a big difference between a 14 year old Westerner playing a lot in his or her own time and a 14 year old Korean pro playing 10 hours a day as a part of a Kespa team.
In order to make it into the NBA, you have to go through at least a decade where your practice regimen is limited by regulations. The NCAA has STRICT regulations which specify how long someone can practice while they are in school.
Seriously, does anyone actually follow actual sports and how people progress from high school to college to the pros?
If you think players are only putting in the time the NCAA or their high school allows you are mistaken. Big time college sports is a different beast, but it is essentially a full time job. Seniors lead off-season workouts that take teams far in excess of the NCAA maximum practice hours. NBA prospects don't just go to practice and call it a day, they stay after shooting or working on conditioning. Players are expected to do film study on their own time, ect...... Top basketball prospects play tournaments across the country with AAU teams every single weekend, or travel to skill camps. I agree that kids should finish high school prior to turning pro though.
I already addressed the differences between those sports and becoming a professional gamer though. They want them nice and young because the development process is different when it comes to RTS professional gaming. It's unfortunate but required compared to other athletics where players mature a lot later. It's well proven. :/
On March 27 2013 01:48 Gosi wrote: How is this region locked competition working out in the LoL scene btw? If I understand it right, the NA scene for an example is not lacking in backing and support when it comes to money related things right? Most relevant teams are living in a team house while getting money from Riot and having sponsors like any other esport organisation right? Are NA and EU competitive with Korea and China?
the NA LoL team is garbage, they get stomp super hard by Koreans and Taiwan.
But because they don't have so many international tournaments, their fans are extremely delusional about how good the NA teams are. They will see it over time just how hard their NA teams are going to get stomp at every world series
Sounds like the early MLGs, where a lot of the NA fans who didn't follow the GSL thought Select vs Incontrol was the pinnacle of SC2 gameplay. I don't think it's possible to sell that to anyone anymore in SC2, when everyone knows who Mvp, MKP, MC, Life, DRG etc are.
How do people watch college football when they know about the NFL? How do people go to minor league hockey games when there is the NHL?
How? Actually i really want to know how that works, so that i can have faith for regional and foreign sc2
I prefer college sports way over professional (basketball and American football) because the atmosphere surrounding the game is better IMO and fans are more passionate because its their school/peers playing. I actually don't know anyone that prefers NBA over college basketball although I'm sure there are a lot.
I prefer NBA way over college for the simple fact that the skill level is so much higher. If you actually watch college basketball without the fans/atmosphere/school pride the skill level is really bad especially since now all the good players just goto the NBA draft after they're freshman year.
Well to bring it closer to home a lot of people still watch Dota tournaments even though the scene pretty much agrees that China teams destroy US and EU teams yet I and many others still watch leagues that dont have chinese teams in them.
Yeah, the argument that people will only want to watch the best in the world has so many holes. If it were true, how did the Fenway Park get filled for the nearly 100 years the Red Sox did not win the World Series? How do the Cubs exist? People need to drop that argument and just accept we need SC2 leagues everywhere, because we all want to watch SC2.
The same reason the Toronto Maple Leafs have just over 16,000 season ticket holders and a waiting list that is beyond ridiculous. It's the history; it's the love of the game; it's the ritual; last but not least, it's still the finest baseball competition the world has to offer. There's a huge market for hockey here just like there's a huge market in Chicago for baseball. That's why they have two teams after all.
In these parts the Leafs get chastised when they're losing yet we still show up in droves. It's kind of silly how much more money the League could make with another team around the GTA region, but unfortunately the Leafs have territorial rights and I don't see it happening even with Bell and Rogers co-owning the vast majority of MLSE when they could have a lot more content added to their outlets.
On March 27 2013 02:16 sitromit wrote: As if EU and NA haven't always had more opportunities for up-and-coming players than Korea... What tournament can an up-an-coming Korean player play in? What do they have to motivate themselves with? Winning the GSL? Because that's an easily attainable goal?
People complain that the foreigners are demotivated because they can't win an MLG with 10 Koreans. What are all the Korean Code B players supposed to do then, when they're playing against Jaedong in the Code A qualifiers?
Koreans didn't have the Zotacs and Playhems and the multitude of online tournaments that EU and NA players had for a very long time. For a while, the Korean Weekly was the only tournament for up-and-comers to show themselves and even that doesn't exist anymore.
I ask once again, if regional leagues are supposed to raise the skill level, where are all the incredibly skilled players coming out of the Taiwanese league that has been going on for a long time now, and has everything that regional lockout advocates claim as the recipe for success?
koreans have an entire team house based talent development system that draws from up and coming players and trains them full time for team leagues and the code a qualifiers.
westerners get $100 weekly tournaments.
yes, clearly the koreans are behind.
In many ways, they are behind. If Alex Garfield had a Kespa style house in Arizona, he'd be arrested for violations of child labor laws. Korean society really needs to catch up and not have kids drop out of school to pursue a progaming career.
I'd choose the NA/EU scene over the KR scene any day because at least NA/EU players will have graduated high school, and many hold college degrees. They at least have a shot at a post-gaming career.
What is this I don't even... Cuz this is totally unheard of in all other sports right? The only way to be the best at anything is to do it from a young age. Any idea how much time and effort young kids that turn into successful athletes put into sports? Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. Your attitude is exactly why foreigners suck in comparison. They're trying to finish school, start playing basketball at 16-18 and then make the NBA lol This kind of mentality pretty much proves that foreigners don't see e-sports as a legitimate career, and only something you do for a few years and then go back to "real post-gaming life", where the koreans see it as any other sport. That is exaclty why we get dominated, just like we should.
Wow some people lol
Playing professionally != playing. There's a big difference between a 14 year old Westerner playing a lot in his or her own time and a 14 year old Korean pro playing 10 hours a day as a part of a Kespa team.
In order to make it into the NBA, you have to go through at least a decade where your practice regimen is limited by regulations. The NCAA has STRICT regulations which specify how long someone can practice while they are in school.
Seriously, does anyone actually follow actual sports and how people progress from high school to college to the pros?
If you think players are only putting in the time the NCAA or their high school allows you are mistaken. Big time college sports is a different beast, but it is essentially a full time job. Seniors lead off-season workouts that take teams far in excess of the NCAA maximum practice hours. NBA prospects don't just go to practice and call it a day, they stay after shooting or working on conditioning. Players are expected to do film study on their own time, ect...... Top basketball prospects play tournaments across the country with AAU teams every single weekend, or travel to skill camps. I agree that kids should finish high school prior to turning pro though.
I already addressed the differences between those sports and becoming a professional gamer though. They want them nice and young because the development process is different when it comes to RTS professional gaming. It's unfortunate but required compared to other athletics where players mature a lot later. It's well proven. :/
I have a massive problem with the current American sport industrial machine. They crank players through life, make them a star, then discard them once they're injured. The industry makes a huge show about how much money they make, but a huge percentage of NFL players are broke or in financial trouble after only a few years after leaving the league.
Why is this?
Because the system is designed so that the team owners, the league, the broadcasting, and the venues profit. The supporting cast takes as much as it can from players, while shuffling them through the meatgrinder. It begins at a young age- scouts, managers, and coaches do their best to ensure ALL a promising player does is play their sport. They are encouraged to cheat, take joke majors and classes, and have people cheat for them. Teachers look the other way, because sports keep the colleges funded. An NFL career may only last 3 or 4 years for many players, with a salary of $400k/year. This sounds like a lot, but after taxes, agent fees etc, they may only be earning $200k/year for 4 years. That's it. Now you have $800k, probably some huge debts since you expected to be making great money for a long while, and you have none of the real life skills you need to deal with the rest of your adult life. The system stole your education from you (this isn't true for everyone- some athletes are highly educated, and disciplined enough to say "no" to free A's), they stole your youth from you. No matter what you see Deon Sanders doing, things are not all diamonds and fun in major sports.
Players aren't encouraged to leave for the pros for the player's benefit, it's for the benefit of the hundreds of people getting rich off the players.
On March 27 2013 04:38 cladoliver wrote: blizzard only will gonna announce support to korea?? and the rest of world eat craps?
Where did you read that?
That's what we call a knee jerk reaction from just looking at the thread title and not reading.
On March 27 2013 03:35 feanor1 wrote:
On March 27 2013 02:56 Branman wrote:
On March 27 2013 02:47 ffadicted wrote:
On March 27 2013 02:34 Branman wrote:
On March 27 2013 02:25 Cybren wrote:
On March 27 2013 02:16 sitromit wrote: As if EU and NA haven't always had more opportunities for up-and-coming players than Korea... What tournament can an up-an-coming Korean player play in? What do they have to motivate themselves with? Winning the GSL? Because that's an easily attainable goal?
People complain that the foreigners are demotivated because they can't win an MLG with 10 Koreans. What are all the Korean Code B players supposed to do then, when they're playing against Jaedong in the Code A qualifiers?
Koreans didn't have the Zotacs and Playhems and the multitude of online tournaments that EU and NA players had for a very long time. For a while, the Korean Weekly was the only tournament for up-and-comers to show themselves and even that doesn't exist anymore.
I ask once again, if regional leagues are supposed to raise the skill level, where are all the incredibly skilled players coming out of the Taiwanese league that has been going on for a long time now, and has everything that regional lockout advocates claim as the recipe for success?
koreans have an entire team house based talent development system that draws from up and coming players and trains them full time for team leagues and the code a qualifiers.
westerners get $100 weekly tournaments.
yes, clearly the koreans are behind.
In many ways, they are behind. If Alex Garfield had a Kespa style house in Arizona, he'd be arrested for violations of child labor laws. Korean society really needs to catch up and not have kids drop out of school to pursue a progaming career.
I'd choose the NA/EU scene over the KR scene any day because at least NA/EU players will have graduated high school, and many hold college degrees. They at least have a shot at a post-gaming career.
What is this I don't even... Cuz this is totally unheard of in all other sports right? The only way to be the best at anything is to do it from a young age. Any idea how much time and effort young kids that turn into successful athletes put into sports? Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. Your attitude is exactly why foreigners suck in comparison. They're trying to finish school, start playing basketball at 16-18 and then make the NBA lol This kind of mentality pretty much proves that foreigners don't see e-sports as a legitimate career, and only something you do for a few years and then go back to "real post-gaming life", where the koreans see it as any other sport. That is exaclty why we get dominated, just like we should.
Wow some people lol
Playing professionally != playing. There's a big difference between a 14 year old Westerner playing a lot in his or her own time and a 14 year old Korean pro playing 10 hours a day as a part of a Kespa team.
In order to make it into the NBA, you have to go through at least a decade where your practice regimen is limited by regulations. The NCAA has STRICT regulations which specify how long someone can practice while they are in school.
Seriously, does anyone actually follow actual sports and how people progress from high school to college to the pros?
If you think players are only putting in the time the NCAA or their high school allows you are mistaken. Big time college sports is a different beast, but it is essentially a full time job. Seniors lead off-season workouts that take teams far in excess of the NCAA maximum practice hours. NBA prospects don't just go to practice and call it a day, they stay after shooting or working on conditioning. Players are expected to do film study on their own time, ect...... Top basketball prospects play tournaments across the country with AAU teams every single weekend, or travel to skill camps. I agree that kids should finish high school prior to turning pro though.
I already addressed the differences between those sports and becoming a professional gamer though. They want them nice and young because the development process is different when it comes to RTS professional gaming. It's unfortunate but required compared to other athletics where players mature a lot later. It's well proven. :/
I have a massive problem with the current American sport industrial machine. They crank players through life, make them a star, then discard them once they're injured. The industry makes a huge show about how much money they make, but a huge percentage of NFL players are broke or in financial trouble after only a few years after leaving the league.
Why is this?
Because the system is designed so that the team owners, the league, the broadcasting, and the venues profit. The supporting cast takes as much as it can from players, while shuffling them through the meatgrinder. It begins at a young age- scouts, managers, and coaches do their best to ensure ALL a promising player does is play their sport. They are encouraged to cheat, take joke majors and classes, and have people cheat for them. Teachers look the other way, because sports keep the colleges funded. An NFL career may only last 3 or 4 years for many players, with a salary of $400k/year. This sounds like a lot, but after taxes, agent fees etc, they may only be earning $200k/year for 4 years. That's it. Now you have $800k, probably some huge debts since you expected to be making great money for a long while, and you have none of the real life skills you need to deal with the rest of your adult life. The system stole your education from you (this isn't true for everyone- some athletes are highly educated, and disciplined enough to say "no" to free A's), they stole your youth from you. No matter what you see Deon Sanders doing, things are not all diamonds and fun in major sports.
Players aren't encouraged to leave for the pros for the player's benefit, it's for the benefit of the hundreds of people getting rich off the players.
I have very limited knowledge when it comes to the NFL and their player's association because I really don't follow the sport at all so it's hard for me to comment. I know the NHLPA has a pension and a relief fund for players who are struggling. Originally this didn't include players after a certain year. Let me put it this way a lot of the ol' boys like Gordie Howe had to keep booking appearances everywhere because he just didn't have enough money saved up and yes some of them have problems with medical bills. It's nice to know in the last bargaining agreement they were able to do something about this, but I feel it isn't enough. I do hear stories about this all the time and I am aware that a player's life in a league like the NFL is very short. Guess how long the average NHL career is? + Show Spoiler +
6 years.
Not much difference between hockey, baseball and other sports.
I already addressed the differences between those sports and becoming a professional gamer though. They want them nice and young because the development process is different when it comes to RTS professional gaming. It's unfortunate but required compared to other athletics where players mature a lot later. It's well proven. :/
I just wanted to address this point and cut off the rest of the quote tree because it was really complex.
Just because you can mature as a younger RTS professional player doesn't mean that that is the right thing to do. There are many things that should be sacrificed in the quest to have the greatest skill, and there are things that shouldn't be sacrificed.
Going back to my steroid example from a few posts ago. Juicing up will make you bigger, faster, and stronger (increase your skill level), but as a society, we've decided that it isn't worth the costs of allowing steroids. We've decided that the sacrifices required in order to take steroids while training and maintaining a career as a professional athlete are unacceptable. It very well can be the case that starting a very stringent training regime at 14 will make you a better RTS player than if you started a similar regime at 18, but we as a community should probably look down on starting so early because it does not give an aspiring pro player a bridge to a post-esports career. We should agree that going pro before the age of 18 is a sacrifice that we shouldn't accept.
I already addressed the differences between those sports and becoming a professional gamer though. They want them nice and young because the development process is different when it comes to RTS professional gaming. It's unfortunate but required compared to other athletics where players mature a lot later. It's well proven. :/
I just wanted to address this point and cut off the rest of the quote tree because it was really complex.
Just because you can mature as a younger RTS professional player doesn't mean that that is the right thing to do. There are many things that should be sacrificed in the quest to have the greatest skill, and there are things that shouldn't be sacrificed.
Going back to my steroid example from a few posts ago. Juicing up will make you bigger, faster, and stronger (increase your skill level), but as a society, we've decided that it isn't worth the costs of allowing steroids. We've decided that the sacrifices required in order to take steroids while training and maintaining a career as a professional athlete are unacceptable. It very well can be the case that starting a very stringent training regime at 14 will make you a better RTS player than if you started a similar regime at 18, but we as a community should probably look down on starting so early because it does not give an aspiring pro player a bridge to a post-esports career. We should agree that going pro before the age of 18 is a sacrifice that we shouldn't accept.
Let me put it this way. In their development process it is necessary for them to start young in order to reach their full potential or else they put themselves at risk of not achieving their goals. Sacrifices always have to be made and it's no different when we're talking about Starcraft. It's a pretty tough pill to swallow. There will always be certain exceptions like your Nestea's and dare I even say White-Ras. I didn't really specify the age but I know some guilds who look for kids even younger than 14 when it came to BW. Scary don't you think? Yes, it certainly doesn't address their education let alone letting them live out their youth where they can learn all kinds of shit, but these are the sacrifices they choose in hopes of making it and unfortunately very few will. You heard me talking about the limited player pool in places like NA. There are a lot of Koreans who dream about becoming Pro Gamers too, but very few of them will find success as well. Not saying I personally encourage it. If those kids want to give it a try it's their choice and their sacrifice. In many cases I don't think they truly understand what they're doing with their lives which is sad. If the kid is ridiculously good and has that raw talent that so few have and seems to understand the sacrifice. I would have no problem taking them on my team and making them a stone cold killer.
I already addressed the differences between those sports and becoming a professional gamer though. They want them nice and young because the development process is different when it comes to RTS professional gaming. It's unfortunate but required compared to other athletics where players mature a lot later. It's well proven. :/
I just wanted to address this point and cut off the rest of the quote tree because it was really complex.
Just because you can mature as a younger RTS professional player doesn't mean that that is the right thing to do. There are many things that should be sacrificed in the quest to have the greatest skill, and there are things that shouldn't be sacrificed.
Going back to my steroid example from a few posts ago. Juicing up will make you bigger, faster, and stronger (increase your skill level), but as a society, we've decided that it isn't worth the costs of allowing steroids. We've decided that the sacrifices required in order to take steroids while training and maintaining a career as a professional athlete are unacceptable. It very well can be the case that starting a very stringent training regime at 14 will make you a better RTS player than if you started a similar regime at 18, but we as a community should probably look down on starting so early because it does not give an aspiring pro player a bridge to a post-esports career. We should agree that going pro before the age of 18 is a sacrifice that we shouldn't accept.
i think that'll be very difficult to manage with video games, regardless of being right or wrong. real sports are about refining your abilities as you age, the game does not change and allows for long term goal. not with video games though, i may be misinterpreting how esports work.
On March 27 2013 04:43 farvacola wrote: Yes, I'd be curious to know where he got that information as well. I was under the impression that the rest of the world would only have the opportunity to eat one "crap". This news of multiple "craps" is exciting.
mmmmm.....craps.... aaauuuuugggghhh
OT: Insert pointless speculation based on minimal information.
I would absolutely love it if Blizzard took up the Riot LCS model. Would be the best thing to happen to the Sc2 scene since it's formation, better even than the Kespa switch.
On March 27 2013 01:48 Gosi wrote: How is this region locked competition working out in the LoL scene btw? If I understand it right, the NA scene for an example is not lacking in backing and support when it comes to money related things right? Most relevant teams are living in a team house while getting money from Riot and having sponsors like any other esport organisation right? Are NA and EU competitive with Korea and China?
the NA LoL team is garbage, they get stomp super hard by Koreans and Taiwan.
But because they don't have so many international tournaments, their fans are extremely delusional about how good the NA teams are. They will see it over time just how hard their NA teams are going to get stomp at every world series
Sounds like the early MLGs, where a lot of the NA fans who didn't follow the GSL thought Select vs Incontrol was the pinnacle of SC2 gameplay. I don't think it's possible to sell that to anyone anymore in SC2, when everyone knows who Mvp, MKP, MC, Life, DRG etc are.
How do people watch college football when they know about the NFL? How do people go to minor league hockey games when there is the NHL?
How? Actually i really want to know how that works, so that i can have faith for regional and foreign sc2
I prefer college sports way over professional (basketball and American football) because the atmosphere surrounding the game is better IMO and fans are more passionate because its their school/peers playing. I actually don't know anyone that prefers NBA over college basketball although I'm sure there are a lot.
I prefer NBA way over college for the simple fact that the skill level is so much higher. If you actually watch college basketball without the fans/atmosphere/school pride the skill level is really bad especially since now all the good players just goto the NBA draft after they're freshman year.
Well to bring it closer to home a lot of people still watch Dota tournaments even though the scene pretty much agrees that China teams destroy US and EU teams yet I and many others still watch leagues that dont have chinese teams in them.
Yeah, the argument that people will only want to watch the best in the world has so many holes. If it were true, how did the Fenway Park get filled for the nearly 100 years the Red Sox did not win the World Series? How do the Cubs exist? People need to drop that argument and just accept we need SC2 leagues everywhere, because we all want to watch SC2.
Your sports analogy doesn't work when it comes to SC2. Most people cheer for their team due to a regional connection of living in the city and growing up cheering for that team. My team is the vancouver canucks and when they play the calgary flames or any other cdn team, do I cheer for calgary too because they're both cdn teams? Hell no, I cheer for the canucks and hope they destroy all the other cdn teams. Do I cheer for the other cdn teams when they don't play the canucks? Hell no! You also fail to take in consideration, that even though the sox and cubs were losing, they were still playing in the best baseball league in the world.
There is no regional connection with foreigners if it's going to be just USA vs USA players, etc. You can't compare sc2 players to team sports. Also, in sports people do want to watch the best of the best. Minor leagues can survive still, but the attendance numbers and tv ratings overall pale in comparison to their major league counterparts. NHL vs AHL, NBA vs NBDL, MLB vs AAA, etc.
Can a minor league regional foreigner league survive? Maybe, and I'm not sure, but the esports audience is already a niche, so you're cutting into that niche even further by going regional.
On March 27 2013 07:47 alvadr wrote: Has this finally calmed down?
Did people realise that Blizzard knows a lot more about Esports than them, and won't mess it up?
Did they stop speculating based on Konglish rumours?
Please..
Thank you for calling my English "Konglish". Sorry that my Konglish hurt your eyes and brain when you tried to understand what I translated means. Despite of my effort to find the best expressions I could find, it seems it was not even close to the standard.
On March 27 2013 07:47 alvadr wrote: Has this finally calmed down?
Did people realise that Blizzard knows a lot more about Esports than them, and won't mess it up?
Did they stop speculating based on Konglish rumours?
Please..
Thank you for calling my English "Konglish". Sorry that my Konglish hurt your eyes and brain when you tried to understand what I translated means. Despite of my effort to find the best expressions I could find, it seems it was not even close to the standard.
I already addressed the differences between those sports and becoming a professional gamer though. They want them nice and young because the development process is different when it comes to RTS professional gaming. It's unfortunate but required compared to other athletics where players mature a lot later. It's well proven. :/
I just wanted to address this point and cut off the rest of the quote tree because it was really complex.
Just because you can mature as a younger RTS professional player doesn't mean that that is the right thing to do. There are many things that should be sacrificed in the quest to have the greatest skill, and there are things that shouldn't be sacrificed.
Going back to my steroid example from a few posts ago. Juicing up will make you bigger, faster, and stronger (increase your skill level), but as a society, we've decided that it isn't worth the costs of allowing steroids. We've decided that the sacrifices required in order to take steroids while training and maintaining a career as a professional athlete are unacceptable. It very well can be the case that starting a very stringent training regime at 14 will make you a better RTS player than if you started a similar regime at 18, but we as a community should probably look down on starting so early because it does not give an aspiring pro player a bridge to a post-esports career. We should agree that going pro before the age of 18 is a sacrifice that we shouldn't accept.
Let me put it this way. In their development process it is necessary for them to start young in order to reach their full potential or else they put themselves at risk of not achieving their goals. Sacrifices always have to be made and it's no different when we're talking about Starcraft. It's a pretty tough pill to swallow. There will always be certain exceptions like your Nestea's and dare I even say White-Ras. I didn't really specify the age but I know some guilds who look for kids even younger than 14 when it came to BW. Scary don't you think? Yes, it certainly doesn't address their education let alone letting them live out their youth where they can learn all kinds of shit, but these are the sacrifices they choose in hopes of making it and unfortunately very few will. You heard me talking about the limited player pool in places like NA. There are a lot of Koreans who dream about becoming Pro Gamers too, but very few of them will find success as well. Not saying I personally encourage it. If those kids want to give it a try it's their choice and their sacrifice. In many cases I don't think they truly understand what they're doing with their lives which is sad. If the kid is ridiculously good and has that raw talent that so few have and seems to understand the sacrifice. I would have no problem taking them on my team and making them a stone cold killer.
You seem to agree with what I'm saying, but you're making an appeal to "this is just the way it's done." In your last sentence, you said that if a kid truly understood what they were giving up, you wouldn't have a problem with that. However, the point of this would be to protect them from people who don't actually care about them. For every person that would actually only recruit them if they truly understood the sacrifice, there are many more who are willing to just exploit their dreams for commercial gain.
If you ever want to have a widespread audience in the West, then any semblance of dropping out of high school to play games professionally will have to be eliminated from the worldwide scene. Sports have always thrived on the idea that kids could dream of one day being good enough to grace the stage of the pro game. However, if the message becomes "if you want to eventually make it as a pro, you have to drop out of high school and just start playing games otherwise you'll be behind your peers" then the idea that Westerners should even think of becoming a pro will just fade away.
Just from the right hand sidebar on TL, both Life and Creator were born in 1997 and were playing professionally at the age of 14 having logged GSL/GSTL games in the TLPD from 2011. How can we expect a Western player who starts going pro at the age of 18 to even hope of catching someone who has already been a pro for 4 years? That's the thing about competition, if you want to compete at the highest level, then you have to do the exact same things everyone else on the highest level does. This was steroids in baseball in the late 90s, and it's dropping out of high school in Starcraft today.
I already addressed the differences between those sports and becoming a professional gamer though. They want them nice and young because the development process is different when it comes to RTS professional gaming. It's unfortunate but required compared to other athletics where players mature a lot later. It's well proven. :/
I just wanted to address this point and cut off the rest of the quote tree because it was really complex.
Just because you can mature as a younger RTS professional player doesn't mean that that is the right thing to do. There are many things that should be sacrificed in the quest to have the greatest skill, and there are things that shouldn't be sacrificed.
Going back to my steroid example from a few posts ago. Juicing up will make you bigger, faster, and stronger (increase your skill level), but as a society, we've decided that it isn't worth the costs of allowing steroids. We've decided that the sacrifices required in order to take steroids while training and maintaining a career as a professional athlete are unacceptable. It very well can be the case that starting a very stringent training regime at 14 will make you a better RTS player than if you started a similar regime at 18, but we as a community should probably look down on starting so early because it does not give an aspiring pro player a bridge to a post-esports career. We should agree that going pro before the age of 18 is a sacrifice that we shouldn't accept.
Let me put it this way. In their development process it is necessary for them to start young in order to reach their full potential or else they put themselves at risk of not achieving their goals. Sacrifices always have to be made and it's no different when we're talking about Starcraft. It's a pretty tough pill to swallow. There will always be certain exceptions like your Nestea's and dare I even say White-Ras. I didn't really specify the age but I know some guilds who look for kids even younger than 14 when it came to BW. Scary don't you think? Yes, it certainly doesn't address their education let alone letting them live out their youth where they can learn all kinds of shit, but these are the sacrifices they choose in hopes of making it and unfortunately very few will. You heard me talking about the limited player pool in places like NA. There are a lot of Koreans who dream about becoming Pro Gamers too, but very few of them will find success as well. Not saying I personally encourage it. If those kids want to give it a try it's their choice and their sacrifice. In many cases I don't think they truly understand what they're doing with their lives which is sad. If the kid is ridiculously good and has that raw talent that so few have and seems to understand the sacrifice. I would have no problem taking them on my team and making them a stone cold killer.
You seem to agree with what I'm saying, but you're making an appeal to "this is just the way it's done." In your last sentence, you said that if a kid truly understood what they were giving up, you wouldn't have a problem with that. However, the point of this would be to protect them from people who don't actually care about them. For every person that would actually only recruit them if they truly understood the sacrifice, there are many more who are willing to just exploit their dreams for commercial gain.
If you ever want to have a widespread audience in the West, then any semblance of dropping out of high school to play games professionally will have to be eliminated from the worldwide scene. Sports have always thrived on the idea that kids could dream of one day being good enough to grace the stage of the pro game. However, if the message becomes "if you want to eventually make it as a pro, you have to drop out of high school and just start playing games otherwise you'll be behind your peers" then the idea that Westerners should even think of becoming a pro will just fade away.
Just from the right hand sidebar on TL, both Life and Creator were born in 1997 and were playing professionally at the age of 14 having logged GSL/GSTL games in the TLPD from 2011. How can we expect a Western player who starts going pro at the age of 18 to even hope of catching someone who has already been a pro for 4 years? That's the thing about competition, if you want to compete at the highest level, then you have to do the exact same things everyone else on the highest level does. This was steroids in baseball in the late 90s, and it's dropping out of high school in Starcraft today.
I think your opinion is basically correct. However, just to point out a little flaw, not all young Korean progamers have dropped out school. Ofcourese there could be some players have dropped out, but as long as I know, most of young players including Life, Parting, Creator, and TY still go school.
I already addressed the differences between those sports and becoming a professional gamer though. They want them nice and young because the development process is different when it comes to RTS professional gaming. It's unfortunate but required compared to other athletics where players mature a lot later. It's well proven. :/
I just wanted to address this point and cut off the rest of the quote tree because it was really complex.
Just because you can mature as a younger RTS professional player doesn't mean that that is the right thing to do. There are many things that should be sacrificed in the quest to have the greatest skill, and there are things that shouldn't be sacrificed.
Going back to my steroid example from a few posts ago. Juicing up will make you bigger, faster, and stronger (increase your skill level), but as a society, we've decided that it isn't worth the costs of allowing steroids. We've decided that the sacrifices required in order to take steroids while training and maintaining a career as a professional athlete are unacceptable. It very well can be the case that starting a very stringent training regime at 14 will make you a better RTS player than if you started a similar regime at 18, but we as a community should probably look down on starting so early because it does not give an aspiring pro player a bridge to a post-esports career. We should agree that going pro before the age of 18 is a sacrifice that we shouldn't accept.
Let me put it this way. In their development process it is necessary for them to start young in order to reach their full potential or else they put themselves at risk of not achieving their goals. Sacrifices always have to be made and it's no different when we're talking about Starcraft. It's a pretty tough pill to swallow. There will always be certain exceptions like your Nestea's and dare I even say White-Ras. I didn't really specify the age but I know some guilds who look for kids even younger than 14 when it came to BW. Scary don't you think? Yes, it certainly doesn't address their education let alone letting them live out their youth where they can learn all kinds of shit, but these are the sacrifices they choose in hopes of making it and unfortunately very few will. You heard me talking about the limited player pool in places like NA. There are a lot of Koreans who dream about becoming Pro Gamers too, but very few of them will find success as well. Not saying I personally encourage it. If those kids want to give it a try it's their choice and their sacrifice. In many cases I don't think they truly understand what they're doing with their lives which is sad. If the kid is ridiculously good and has that raw talent that so few have and seems to understand the sacrifice. I would have no problem taking them on my team and making them a stone cold killer.
You seem to agree with what I'm saying, but you're making an appeal to "this is just the way it's done." In your last sentence, you said that if a kid truly understood what they were giving up, you wouldn't have a problem with that. However, the point of this would be to protect them from people who don't actually care about them. For every person that would actually only recruit them if they truly understood the sacrifice, there are many more who are willing to just exploit their dreams for commercial gain.
If you ever want to have a widespread audience in the West, then any semblance of dropping out of high school to play games professionally will have to be eliminated from the worldwide scene. Sports have always thrived on the idea that kids could dream of one day being good enough to grace the stage of the pro game. However, if the message becomes "if you want to eventually make it as a pro, you have to drop out of high school and just start playing games otherwise you'll be behind your peers" then the idea that Westerners should even think of becoming a pro will just fade away.
Just from the right hand sidebar on TL, both Life and Creator were born in 1997 and were playing professionally at the age of 14 having logged GSL/GSTL games in the TLPD from 2011. How can we expect a Western player who starts going pro at the age of 18 to even hope of catching someone who has already been a pro for 4 years? That's the thing about competition, if you want to compete at the highest level, then you have to do the exact same things everyone else on the highest level does. This was steroids in baseball in the late 90s, and it's dropping out of high school in Starcraft today.
I think your opinion is basically correct. However, just to point out a little flaw, not all young Korean progamers have dropped out school. Ofcourese there could be some players have dropped out, but as long as I know, most of young players including Life, Parting, Creator, and TY still go school.
Also, Flash and Stats ended up graduating from high school* just a couple of years ago. iirc, it's the same high school that MKP went to coincidentally.
*Google says the link has malware, but it's probably because of the picture links to fomos.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/konadora/14xh5kz.jpg)
