EPTStukov was shot by Duran in BW, he did not explode in blood for any reason other than that is the death animation for the ghost in SC.
[Story spoilers!!] Heart of the HOTS continued - Page 2
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ChaiNs
57 Posts
Stukov was shot by Duran in BW, he did not explode in blood for any reason other than that is the death animation for the ghost in SC. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On March 15 2013 07:53 GreyKnight wrote: It is if you think it can stop things. People insult racists don't they? Hahahah that's completely different. While insulting racists is probably the least effective method for stopping them, they relinquish their priviledge of not being insulted by demeaning people themselves. Not even close to what we're talking about here. I mean WTH are you even talking about with such a comparison LOL, I shouldn't waste time answering.... | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
And so many people seem to glaze over Starcraft 1 and BW's actual over-arching campaign structure. They talk about how much better the story was back then, but completely ignore that the actual "story" they remember is solely relegated to the 5 minute expositions from the mission briefings. Yes, if you focus only on those dialogues, the story is much better. The actual missions were just as bad, if not worse, than SC2. Cerebrate was killed, take out his rogue brood. Confederates have a base here, destroy it. Enemy just built an Ion Cannon/Psi Disruptor/Stasis Chamber, take it out. Protoss still don't like Dark Templar after 6 missions of infighting, destroy enemy Protoss. Zoomacroom's whining is hilarious, by the way. Most of his complaints should be aimed at BW, not SC2. Doesn't like Queen of Blades, too bad, it's been established for 10 years and it's too late to drop it. Whines about Infested Stukov...that was done in BW bonus missions (and expanded upon in novels). Doesn't like shoe-horned Zerg characters with random personalities, probably wouldn't have an issue if they looked like sacs of meat and were called Cerebrates. | ||
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
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Pheon
Canada13 Posts
Being such a cynic doesn't help and telling people they have elementary understandings of 'basic prose' is just being plain rude. If you enjoy it, you enjoy it. You don't have to have an English major's understanding of writing either way, and insinuating such is stupid. | ||
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Kraelog
Belgium194 Posts
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Warlock40
601 Posts
Ideally, we would have a great plot and great gameplay, but obviously that's harder than it sounds. *Note that sometimes, even movies are "reverse-constructed" such that set pieces are written first, and then a plot is written to connect those set pieces. Even highly successful and critically acclaimed movies like The Avengers were written in this fashion. For example, Marvel told Joss Whedon, "we want to see a battle involving the Helicarrier, and we want the climactic action scene to be in NY. Make it happen." And, being the awesome dude that he is, Whedon did make it work. Sometimes the plot turns out to be good on its own merits, sometimes not.... EDIT: On March 15 2013 07:56 WolfintheSheep wrote: Both WoL and HotS were clearly designed with the missions first, and a story to wrap around them. Hence why so many of the missions felt like filler as an excuse to planet hop or introduce new units. You can argue whether it was a good idea or not, but at the very least it put the focus on making the single player experience unique. Yep, agreed. | ||
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GreyKnight
United States4720 Posts
On March 15 2013 08:00 Pheon wrote: People should make an effort to be less critical of damn near every story written in the gaming genre. Ought to learn to enjoy things for what they are; I have no qualms with the story. It was really simple and predictable, but I still enjoyed it. Being such a cynic doesn't help and telling people they have elementary understandings of 'basic prose' is just being plain rude. If you enjoy it, you enjoy it. You don't have to have an English major's understanding of writing either way, and insinuating such is stupid. Be less critical? Excuse me but if something is godawful you want to be critical so it can improve. The story is in no way even well written at any level. Critique brings improvement. To claim anyone who finds the story to be shit is a hilarious assertion. Theres nothing about it that fits the definition of cynical. | ||
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JoelE
United States112 Posts
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
On March 15 2013 07:35 Phay wrote: Kerrigan: A drone? Do you know what could happen if I take control of a Zerg?? Valerian: I know, I know, but we are in a very controlled environment. Now, build a hatchery Now, build a spawning pool! <facepalm> Hardest mission ever on Brutal  | ||
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HwangjaeTerran
Finland5967 Posts
I guess you can't complain about the lack of story with a company the size of Activision Blizzard. Maybe the game industry has come to a point where big games can't have any sharp edges. Like your average Hollywood action film. A lot of people enjoy those, like a lot of people like soggy cereals and smear everything with ketchup too. A part of me can understand it: when the plot feels nonexistent there is less need to pay attention and you have a more comfortable experience. And you don't have to lay down your ketchup smeared cereals to backtrack because there is no way you missed anything. We must remember that the original and BW stories weren't without any clichés and no doubt nostalgia plays part in all the new stuff feeling so much worse. I personally feel the original had more sense of epic proportions in its story. | ||
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Frankenberry
Denmark302 Posts
How freaking cowardly is it to retcon the Tal'Darim to be servants of the Dark Voice once everyone points out that Jim Raynor was basically an imperialist supervillain in WoL? Like, "Oh by the way, you shouldn't feel bad about invading their world and violently robbing them of the objects of their faith because surprise, they were possessed by Satan! the whole time!" And for that matter, how does it make any sense at all that the Tal'Darim were working for Narud if Narud repeatedly commissioned Raynor to steal Xel'Naga artifacts *from* the Tal'Darim in WoL? If you took the time to read the SC wiki (yes I was bored one day) you would find out Tal'darim protoss are indeed just that and always have been. At least I read it like 1 year ago or something. | ||
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Kyir
United States1047 Posts
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tofubeans
United States794 Posts
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bbfg
30 Posts
Zoomacroom wrote: If you're actually anywhere past middle school and this story doesn't make you embarrassed for everyone involved, you should be ashamed of yourself. If you think you are some sort of authority on wether someone should be ashamed of themselves or not based on a videogame story they like or not, you clearly are an idiot. I'm going to read on though because I hate myself. OP is right. If ever there could be said to be an objectively terrible story, this is it. I was honestly completely unable to enjoy an otherwise decent campaign because the writing was so insufferable. Yeah please don't say the same thing 2x. Who are all of these ridiculous Zerg characters coming out of the woodwork and why should I care about them? Is this Chris Metzen's idea of characterization? I liked them and didn't find it weird that they were suddenly there. There is a very big gap between BW and SC2 where we hear nothing about Kerrigan, is it really that hard to believe that she did some shit we don't know about during that period? Not that we know everything she did in SC/BW either fwiw. If you do not want new characters to be introduced I'd be curious to hear why you don't like that. Why is Stukov back from the dead? We literally saw him explode into a pool of blood in BW with a tragic death scene, and he does nothing of significance here. Did someone in the office just suggest that it would be cool and then everyone realized they hadn't retconned a dead character in this game yet? There could be significance to his character that was set up for future expansions. Anyway his significance here was to give us some more insight and emotional investment into what Duran was doing. Oh and it was fun to see him again. How could Duran be resolved so terribly? I just run into him randomly in a space station, he tells me that I suck and can never win, and then I have to blow up temples so Kerrigan can win in a battle of psychic hadokens? And then we get fantasy scene #9001 where a shapeshifter turns into the form of someone important to you and you fall for it even though you know they're a shapeshifter, twice in the same scene? what the !@#$ is this %^-* How was it random that we run into him? It was a significant part of the story for Kerrigan to go there, was it not? And she didn't fall for it twice obviously, she was just surprised. She had a human and emotional reaction to what she saw, as would fucking everyone if we were confronted with a shapeshifter that was messing with us. That was really obvious and that you'd assume that she was falling for it twice in a row makes me think you are really shitty in interpreting the little things that aren't shoved in your mouth. Which is quite important for Starcraft since for some reason Blizzard tries to give the gamer only the essence and what is required of the story during the games, which is a very valid criticism to the Starcraft games fwiw. How freaking cowardly is it to retcon the Tal'Darim to be servants of the Dark Voice once everyone points out that Jim Raynor was basically an imperialist supervillain in WoL? Like, "Oh by the way, you shouldn't feel bad about invading their world and violently robbing them of the objects of their faith because surprise, they were possessed by Satan! the whole time!" And for that matter, how does it make any sense at all that the Tal'Darim were working for Narud if Narud repeatedly commissioned Raynor to steal Xel'Naga artifacts *from* the Tal'Darim in WoL? I really don't think that was what Blizzard had in mind when they chose to do that since well in this game you play a very bad character once again, don't you? And it's not like she's unlikable? Most people like her from what I've heard even though she's being a total bitch through most of the campaign. The whole Narud plotline is indeed a bit weird, though we don't have all the facts to make thorough conclusions. Why does Kerrigan need so much power to kill Mengsk? He is JUST A GUY. She got the better of him several times in BW with her regular "power level." Everything we see in both the story and game mechanics suggests she could just take her brood, attack Korhal, and kill him. She was able to kill billions within a few hours in her initial invasion in WoL. Why does killing Mengsk demand that she reinfest herself, undoing the only thing of significance that happened in WoL? Why are they so insistent on pushing this theme that she'll do anything for power that she doesn't appear to need to accomplish her goals? Well the assumption here was that once Mengsk realised he was going to be targetted, the whole dominion would come after her which would be challenging to even her brood. He's also obviously on the best defended Terran planet there is. And she had more reasons for reinfesting herself than just killing Mengsk. Why do the game's antagonists have no speaking lines that say anything other than "you suck and you'll never beat me?" I didn't really notice this, but I can't point to things contradicting this either. I'll keep this in mind when I replay the game  .Why are Jim and Kerrigan so hot for each other all of a sudden in SC2? I don't think we ever got anything more than a debatable implication that they were an item in the BW story. But they're exchanging sloppy makeouts within the first twenty minutes of this story. Is it just like, there is an attractive man and an attractive woman on screen, of course they have to be all over each other? Why do the writers have such an elementary school command of prose? what am i reading? Uhm if you didn't get it from the games that they were a thing you certainly should have gotten it from the books. But really, you should have gotten it from the games, too. god, this is barely even scratching the surface. the story is childish, trite and doesn't make any sense. characters are introduced for no reason whatsoever. It doesn't succeed on the conventional level, on a deliberately broad-strokes sci-fi epic level, on a B movie level, on a "so bad it's good" level. It just completely, unequivocally sucks. Oh, and could we ditch the name "Queen of Blades" already? It sounds freaking idiotic and doesn't signify anything about the character except that hurr durr blades are pretty cool and so is Kerrigan I guess. I didn't find the story childish at all, heck I thought the way they portrayed Kerrigan being human again but still being so immensely powerful pretty impressive. That wasn't childish at all. I didn't have problems with the characters either. I don't know what your problem is tbh, I can understand if you don't like this story but being so immensely negative about it has to be about more than just the story. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On March 15 2013 08:11 tofubeans wrote: Can someone tell me where in the campaign Kerrigan finds out that Raynor is actually alive? I know there's a part where she hears from Mengsk over the radio that Raynor was executed. But where in the campaign does it show she finds out he's actually alive? mengsk tells her that if she invades he will kill raynor. thats how she finds out the earlier reports were false. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On March 15 2013 07:35 Phay wrote: Kerrigan: A drone? Do you know what could happen if I take control of a Zerg?? Valerian: I know, I know, but we are in a very controlled environment. Now, build a hatchery Now, build a spawning pool! <facepalm> Still better than the first Zerg mission in SC1. Daggoth: "Select a Laaaaaarva and turn it into an Overlord." Daggoth: "Never use your last drone to make a building." Zasz: "Greetings! I too am a Cerebrate for the Overmind!" Though I guess having a raspy voice makes everything sound better. | ||
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Broodie
Canada832 Posts
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AztecTemplar
United States117 Posts
People who complain think that feelings and emotions within characters are linear and don't change in the 4 years since BW. In 4 years you have time to think, mourn, repent, etc... In 4 years the Dominion had the time to upgrade their weapons, make experiments on Zerg and Toss and create better more deadly weapons against each that forces Kerrigan to spend more power and resources to kill them (Mengsk). What Mengsk did in 4 years is pretty much what Abathur does in a few missions I guess. Evolve the swarm to better kill their opponents. Also, love is hard to forget and hard to kill. Even if they killed your best friend. We all know people who would still love their wife/girlfriend even if they did something horrific. Not to mention she became human, which psychologically for Raynor makes her different and remembers him of the old Sarah. Gives him hope. So he doesn't have the heart to kill her (WoL). When she becomes deinfested she retains part of her humanity that Raynor loved and thus is again unable to see the enemy that killed Fenix in cold blood. Sarah and Raynor had a fling going on, this is explained in the books. The Tal'Darim are easily corrupted and are fanatics. It is entirely plausible Narud got them to work for him by telling them he was an emissary of the Xel'Naga or something. Also, Kerrigan didn't know where Raynor was or what Mengsk did with him. She thought him dead. If you see Raynor pop out from the shadows, even if you know its not him, the shock of seeing him again and the mere possibility he is real could cause confusion, again this is just psychological responses to being in love. Queen of Blades is a title. Just like Mengsk keeps calling himself the "Emperor" and everyone calls Raynor "Commander". Thus why the brood mothers call her a Queen. Its a hierarchy system. Duran died "easily" because Kerrigan, as opposed to WoL and BW, consumed the essence of powerful Zerg organisms, plus she got rid of the "influence" of the Dark Voice, which would free her true powers and personality. Really, the complains are not that good since all this has to do with story understanding. -- However, the story telling is kinda weak indeed. There is not much dialogue that would help you understand everything unless you know the lore. The missions seem more personal to Kerrigan, not really concerning the Swarm or Raynor, heck not even the Xel'Naga prophecy is really explained. The characters ARE introduced haphazardly, I mean the feral Zerg aboard the Leviathan, I need more explanation as to why he is there aside from essence or what hell do with it and such. Abathur seems to have his own agenda and influence too, I need more about him too. Obviously Stukov returning for no real reason is kind of disturbing. I wish he had an evil agenda or explanation or something. Maybe a spy. IDK. And I need more explanation as to how Kerrigan pretty much KOd Zeratul without him even lifting a finger. This is a Dark Templar, who taught Tassadar and a prelate... Really? So yeah I think both sides have merits to their opinions. Mainly as to how it was explained and missing chunks, there seems to be a void of atmosphere. Too much jumping around. Yet anything lore related is easily explained. So, the conclusion I'd say is that this is not really WoL, HotS and LoV. It's more like Raynor's story, Kerrigan's story and (hopefully it changes) Zeratul's story; WITHIN the SC universe. So it's a personal view and game focused on each of the 3 main characters. All 3 are intricately wound to their races, so what they do affects the whole, but it doesnt serve to explain the whole or create a true immersion to the race. We see an entirety of the character, but only pieces of the race we are exploring. I love SC, and I loved the story, I already paid for it and will ladder now that I finished it. So I dont complain much. People always complain about the story, no matter who wrote it. I think the people who love the game outweigh the ones who didnt. | ||
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