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On March 15 2013 22:51 KanoCoke wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 15 2013 22:04 17Sphynx17 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Was HOTS really supposed to be a really deep storyline that some people expected more than what it is? Kerrigan was shown to be more "human/emphatic" here so it shows she has lost her full-on Zerg/monster persona. I think that at least counts for something. And the expression of that led to Jim helping here in the last mission. I don't think that is so wrong from a story standpoint.
Personally, I have a few questions though that I wish were actually addressed.
Is the leviathan really that gargantuan compared to a battlecruiser? That sense of scale just detracted from the overall concept I guess. If you go back to the HOTS opening cinematic, how big was the battle cruiser that crashed into the city? Then increase its volume exponentially by, I don't know, 8? It was just too extreme for me already. Too exaggerated.
Why was the ancient one (zerg) so freaking huge while the rest of the primal zerg dwarfed in comparison? Aren't the primal zerg supposed to have originated from the primordial spawning pool which was also the origin of the primal zerg? Who did the ancient one eat then to get so freaking huge? And why was the battle a reskinning of D3's Act 2 boss. I mean why did they see it fit to reuse some of the assets?
I liked the idea of the primal zerg though and that was actually a refreshing concept. I do wonder though if they could be an unlocked alternate race in a custom map maybe so that it adds a bit more variety to the custom games? They appear to have a different "focus" as they weren't re-engineered to be optimal anyway but simply adapt. So I am curious, but they don't seem to have a "hatchery/drone" only a spawning pool. Hehe!
Correct me if I am wrong, but basically, wasn't it just Zeratul that managed to point Kerrigan towards a way to restoring/improving her QoB state? If not for Zeratul, Kerrigan would have simply just massed up Zerg and attacked Korhal right?
I also didn't manage to completely follow how Jim ended up with the gun, I initially thought the gun flew into the cell when the doors were popped by Sarah, but it appears that wasn't the case.
Other things that were wierd in my opinion:
Some of the upgrades didn't make sense to me anymore. I mean, Skeleton King (Zombie) Ultralisk? Really? How is that an "evolutionary trait you are supposed to be able to copy/adapt to"? I feel like they are injecting too much Dota mechanics into some gameplay of the HOTS campaign which I personally didn't find appealing.
Why wasn't the impaler a choice of evolution of the Hydralisk for multiplayer? Is it really that imbalanced to use that as a mechanic? I mean the unit needs to burrow to attack and it isn't a splash attack so why wasn't it an option they chose from to incorporate to the zerg multiplayer units? Is it because spine crawlers can also move?
I was actually surpised the campaign didn't have the inject mechanic for larvae. I actually liked that. Personally, the inject mechanic made zerg too difficult for me. I was used to the SC and SC:BW mechanic of just waiting for larvae to spawn from multiple hatcheries that the inject larvae mechanic crippled me in unit production. I really would have preferred they try and see that as a multiplayer mechanic again, rather than inject. But that is just me.
It seems to be the case. A battlecruiser most definitely would be around the size of a city, as they're supposed to be flagships that can carry interceptor fighter ships, have numerous weapons to kill the Zerg with, and have docking bays for numerous ships to park in, as well as probably a total number of around 2000 staff just maintaining the damn thing. By comparison, the Leviathan is the flagship of the whole Zerg swarm, so the other Zerg fleet's ships are probably smaller in comparison. Like comparing the Hyperion to the average battlecruiser. The Leviathan basically shoots anything and everything into the surface including ultralisks, hatcheries, spawning pools and so on. It should be around that size or it wouldn't be able to do all that. As for the primal zerg, I think he was one of, if not the first to be born off the Primordial spawning pool. It would make sense that millenia of constantly eating, evolving and surviving all those years would make it the ultimate primal zerg being in that planet. The primal zerg do in fact have hives. Those hives are humongous monsters that throw crap at you while you're trying to kill their bases. Sort of like the night elf buildings. Yes, it's all pretty much Zeratul. He gave hints to Raynor but Raynor was too busy and angsty to actually listen to and act according to his advice. But it all worked out in the end eitherway thanks to Zeratul leading Kerrigan herself into the right path. Kerrigan had the gun. She took it from one of the guards she killed to get there. It's the same studio working on the same games. If similarities occur, you can't really blame them. The theme for the Zerg for the whole campaign was necessary evolution in order to overcome their adversaries. The ultras were up against nukes. They were also up against biochemical experimentation. They had to adapt and evolve in order to survive their current plight. As for whether it's a useful evolution or not, Abathur's got his opinions. The impaler is simply a unit version of the spine crawler that does massive damage against armored units, has extremely high range, and is burrowed. Don't all these factors scream "imbalanced" to you? The campaign had quite a few things missing like the one you just mentioned, and corruptors. Turning mutalisks into Broodlords was a pretty funny idea.
Well, I would have thought that maybe the Leviathan be around 3 to a max of 4 times the size of a battlecruiser but 8 is a bit overkill given at the rate of how the swarm can reproduce. Sense of scale was just too much I guess plus the fact that Kerrigan kept mentioning that they had other Leviathan's in the sector in the last mission of attacking Korhal. If that scale were true and the quantity of those behemoths was also true, my god, the Battlecruisers were practically shooting peashooters at a thick hide. There is no way they could have damaged a capital ship that size. A nuke would be equivalent to a tank shot I guess if we look at it via scaling.
As for the impaler, well, I would think there weakness would of course be detection and just marines as they are not armoured. I would want it to be explored like the warhound mechanic, and if it was proved to be "broken" then at least they can take it out. Just my opinion though.
As for the broodlord mechanic in the campaign, I always believed that it should have been the natural thing to evolve them from Mutalisks, kind of like how they worked with guardians/defilers. And maybe corrupters could evolve into vipers with attack. I always found it funny how the viper didn't have any attack, that was just weird a design. The infestor made a bit of sense because it had spells that could cause damage, the viper didn't.
One thing I wish would be a possibility they could explore for the zerg is a map based (secondary) evolution for zerg. This would mean the map would contain certain creatures. Of course, not all creatures will be present in one map. So it gives an "optional" upgrade for the zerg that they could choose to get for one of their units by killing that unit. It just makes it more "zerg-y" if that makes sense. That would be really hard to design though but would make map design take a new level I guess. Just a thought but I know it would be very difficult to do, especially with competition settings.
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Way too many people here being nostalgic of brood war. That story was pretty shit too.
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On March 15 2013 23:30 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 23:29 Mefano wrote:
I never understood why she wanted revenge Mengsk left her to die, betraying both Jim and Her.
She didn't give a shit about that in bw, when she assisted in liberating Korhol before betraying Mengsk even harder in mission 5, then smashing what was left of his forces in 10. She also wasn't unhappy about being transformed into the Queen of Blades.
At no point throughout this was she revenge-hungry, even mocking Mengsk through it.
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dam everyone ITT who thinks they can speak on my behalf and berate me if I think the campaign wasn't garbage. How dear you think you are of a higher intelligence then those who enjoyed it. I respect people who can negatively critique the campaign in a fair manner but if you let your dislike of the campaign form judgements of other people, please don't post.
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On March 15 2013 23:30 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 23:29 Mefano wrote:
I never understood why she wanted revenge Mengsk left her to die, betraying both Jim and Her.
It is important to note that Kerrigan killed Mengsk's father in an attack that also killed his mother and sister. I would have left her to die too.
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On March 15 2013 23:35 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 23:30 Qikz wrote:On March 15 2013 23:29 Mefano wrote:
I never understood why she wanted revenge Mengsk left her to die, betraying both Jim and Her. She didn't give a shit about that in bw, when she assisted in liberating Korhol before betraying Mengsk even harder in mission 5, then smashing what was left of his forces in 10. She also wasn't unhappy about being transformed into the Queen of Blades. At no point throughout this was she revenge-hungry, even mocking Mengsk through it.
It had something to do with her turning human again. She got her conscious back? Being responsible for killing billions of people because of mensk betraying her probably didn't sit too well with her. Even though she became the queen of blades again, she kept part of her human persona, and the vengeance along with it.
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Campaign was pretty fun, story was meh but thats kinda exactly what I was expecting anyway so I cant say that I was surprised or anything. One thing I felt throughout is that by following the kerrigan/raynor arc so much, both WoL and this expansion feel a lot more like RPG campaigns with rts missions thrown in, rather than a "real" rts campaign. Kinda like the different feel you get from Lord of the ring compared to something like game of throne, where the first one focuses on a single party with a common quest who, for the most part, travel together while the latter jumps to different factions from chapter to chapter. This ends up making the world the story takes place in feel a lot larger.
What I ended up disliking the most about the story is the handling of the Narud arc. This guy was built up so much in BW and to have him basically just die to Kerrigan in a DBZ style null zone or whatever its called was dissapointing. He has worked for a while with Kerrigan in the first game, ye makes no mention of it or doesnt act in a way that suggests he has known and worked with her previously, instead shouting generic "you cannot win, you die now"-type things. I can accept that maybe Kerrigan doesnt recognize him due to his changed appearance, but I at least expected something deeper between them than what happened.
The way the Mengsk part of the story has done is also something I had a problem with. In a way, it feels like the entire revolution part of WoL was more or less completely ignored, as at the end of it there are basically riots in the streets and a general anti-mengsk sentiment after the broadcast of the recordings. Mengsk is last seen retreating to his palace from a news conference where he is getting booed by the crowd, yet he returns to beloved emperor of the dominion in Hots with no explanation of what happened in between.
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On March 15 2013 23:41 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 23:35 Dfgj wrote:On March 15 2013 23:30 Qikz wrote:On March 15 2013 23:29 Mefano wrote:
I never understood why she wanted revenge Mengsk left her to die, betraying both Jim and Her. She didn't give a shit about that in bw, when she assisted in liberating Korhol before betraying Mengsk even harder in mission 5, then smashing what was left of his forces in 10. She also wasn't unhappy about being transformed into the Queen of Blades. At no point throughout this was she revenge-hungry, even mocking Mengsk through it. It had something to do with her turning human again. She got her conscious back? Being responsible for killing billions of people because of mensk betraying her probably didn't sit too well with her. Even though she became the queen of blades again, she kept part of her human persona, and the vengeance along with it.
Consciences aren't magical things you simply take away and return, unless you turn your game into a space magic farce.
Retconning a character's motivations over and over to make them sympathetic while at the same time murderous just cheapens that character, and dismisses the actual gravity of their actions.
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On March 15 2013 23:14 KanoCoke wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 22:55 fabiano wrote:
It was bad. I know that everyone has their opinion, but there must be a limit of what is acceptable and what is not. Having a story like this one in HotS with previously rich plot coming from SC and SC:BW is inexcusable.
Seriously people, take off your rose-tinted-glasses and leave blind fanboyism behind. There's also people that don't take their rose-tinted-glasses off when it comes to Starcraft 1 and Broodwar. Like a previous poster said, players will always find the first game and expansion the best because of it being their first experience with the franchise, or because they were at the age where this whole thing was bright, shiny and new to them, as well as nostalgia. Now that the people actually grew older, have experienced a lot of things as they went about their life, and played a whole lot more games, they'll always find sequels disappointing or terrible. Especially when they have so much unrealistic expectations that arise from their line of thought being "This game I played as a kid was awesome and had everything I ever dreamed of in a game! The sequel HAS to be much better than this!". I am not of this kind, which is why I can appreciate the game for what it is, can rationalize bits and pieces of why the plot went there or why these characters are here, etc. and overall have fun with what I have. I played through the campaign of both Starcraft 1 (or Vanilla as most people call it) and Broodwar around 1999 and thought it was good even though I was a little young to understand the more 'concealed' parts of the story. I don't find it as the "ungodly awesome superior ultimate game" like a lot of the nostalgiabros are though. Around the time I was also playing games like Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, Red Alert, Dune 2000, and so on, actually enjoying them thoroughly as well. Also, I am now a Firebat. Awesome.
I played SC and SC:BW for the first time in 2009, both campaign and multiplayer, when I was 21 years old, and I'm still playing it today. I've never stopped playing the game, I enjoyed the campaign stories (vanilla was much better than BW though).
There is no nostalgia, and people should stop using this excuse.
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Ok I'm not going to read this thread because I'm not done with the campaign yet and don't want to spoiler it for myself. But in one of the very first missions when you are escaping with Kerrigan and Raynor and Raynor meets Nova, Nova says something about Raynor "helping her with Tosh". What if I decided to help Tosh instead of her? Does her line change then? Is stuff you did in the WoL campaign going to effect the story in HotS?
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On March 15 2013 23:46 fabiano wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 23:14 KanoCoke wrote:On March 15 2013 22:55 fabiano wrote:
It was bad. I know that everyone has their opinion, but there must be a limit of what is acceptable and what is not. Having a story like this one in HotS with previously rich plot coming from SC and SC:BW is inexcusable.
Seriously people, take off your rose-tinted-glasses and leave blind fanboyism behind. There's also people that don't take their rose-tinted-glasses off when it comes to Starcraft 1 and Broodwar. Like a previous poster said, players will always find the first game and expansion the best because of it being their first experience with the franchise, or because they were at the age where this whole thing was bright, shiny and new to them, as well as nostalgia. Now that the people actually grew older, have experienced a lot of things as they went about their life, and played a whole lot more games, they'll always find sequels disappointing or terrible. Especially when they have so much unrealistic expectations that arise from their line of thought being "This game I played as a kid was awesome and had everything I ever dreamed of in a game! The sequel HAS to be much better than this!". I am not of this kind, which is why I can appreciate the game for what it is, can rationalize bits and pieces of why the plot went there or why these characters are here, etc. and overall have fun with what I have. I played through the campaign of both Starcraft 1 (or Vanilla as most people call it) and Broodwar around 1999 and thought it was good even though I was a little young to understand the more 'concealed' parts of the story. I don't find it as the "ungodly awesome superior ultimate game" like a lot of the nostalgiabros are though. Around the time I was also playing games like Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, Red Alert, Dune 2000, and so on, actually enjoying them thoroughly as well. Also, I am now a Firebat. Awesome. I played SC and SC:BW for the first time in 2009, both campaign and multiplayer, when I was 21 years old, and I'm still playing it today. I've never stopped playing the game, I enjoyed the campaign stories (vanilla was much better than BW though). There is no nostalgia, and people should stop using this excuse.
It is funny you say that there is no nostalgia. Any discussion involving new titles will always be compared to past ones and largely in a negative light, it doesn't matter where it's at(games, books, movies, music..).
People make it like BW was the pinnacle of storytelling, when it wasn't. It was as cheesey as the dialogues in SC2, go re-play it and note the use of words - it's so grandeur.
The biggest fail with blizzard is the fact that half the things that are considered plotholes are explained in books(tal'darim, terrazine, jim/raynor romance...) and most of them were written before SC2. It would be really nice if Blizzard would make some kind of introduction before you play any of the campaigns in SC2, or at least explore things that happened in the books.
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According to WoL, wasn't Kerrigan created by the Overmind in order for it to have a warrior devoid of Amon's influence, or something of the like? How was she purged of Amon's taint if the Overmind made her without the taint (as in, that was the whole point of making her in the first place). It might be arguable that the Overmind was unable to create something without Amon's taint, but if so why did it even try?
Also, if Amon's taint is what it takes for Kerrigan to go back to her BW badass self, lets pray that she gets retainted in LotV.
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On March 15 2013 23:56 Andr3 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 23:46 fabiano wrote:On March 15 2013 23:14 KanoCoke wrote:On March 15 2013 22:55 fabiano wrote:
It was bad. I know that everyone has their opinion, but there must be a limit of what is acceptable and what is not. Having a story like this one in HotS with previously rich plot coming from SC and SC:BW is inexcusable.
Seriously people, take off your rose-tinted-glasses and leave blind fanboyism behind. There's also people that don't take their rose-tinted-glasses off when it comes to Starcraft 1 and Broodwar. Like a previous poster said, players will always find the first game and expansion the best because of it being their first experience with the franchise, or because they were at the age where this whole thing was bright, shiny and new to them, as well as nostalgia. Now that the people actually grew older, have experienced a lot of things as they went about their life, and played a whole lot more games, they'll always find sequels disappointing or terrible. Especially when they have so much unrealistic expectations that arise from their line of thought being "This game I played as a kid was awesome and had everything I ever dreamed of in a game! The sequel HAS to be much better than this!". I am not of this kind, which is why I can appreciate the game for what it is, can rationalize bits and pieces of why the plot went there or why these characters are here, etc. and overall have fun with what I have. I played through the campaign of both Starcraft 1 (or Vanilla as most people call it) and Broodwar around 1999 and thought it was good even though I was a little young to understand the more 'concealed' parts of the story. I don't find it as the "ungodly awesome superior ultimate game" like a lot of the nostalgiabros are though. Around the time I was also playing games like Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, Red Alert, Dune 2000, and so on, actually enjoying them thoroughly as well. Also, I am now a Firebat. Awesome. I played SC and SC:BW for the first time in 2009, both campaign and multiplayer, when I was 21 years old, and I'm still playing it today. I've never stopped playing the game, I enjoyed the campaign stories (vanilla was much better than BW though). There is no nostalgia, and people should stop using this excuse. It is funny you say that there is no nostalgia. Any discussion involving new titles will always be compared to past ones and largely in a negative light, it doesn't matter where it's at(games, books, movies, music..). People make it like BW was the pinnacle of storytelling, when it wasn't. It was as cheesey as the dialogues in SC2, go re-play it and note the use of words - it's so grandeur. The biggest fail with blizzard is the fact that half the things that are considered plotholes are explained in books(tal'darim, terrazine, jim/raynor romance...) and most of them were written before SC2. It would be really nice if Blizzard would make some kind of introduction before you play any of the campaigns in SC2, or at least explore things that happened in the books.
What we need is someone who NEVER played sc1 to go and play it now. That way everybody can stfu about the nostalgia thing.
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United States108 Posts
On March 15 2013 23:45 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 23:41 Tachion wrote:On March 15 2013 23:35 Dfgj wrote:On March 15 2013 23:30 Qikz wrote:On March 15 2013 23:29 Mefano wrote:
I never understood why she wanted revenge Mengsk left her to die, betraying both Jim and Her. She didn't give a shit about that in bw, when she assisted in liberating Korhol before betraying Mengsk even harder in mission 5, then smashing what was left of his forces in 10. She also wasn't unhappy about being transformed into the Queen of Blades. At no point throughout this was she revenge-hungry, even mocking Mengsk through it. It had something to do with her turning human again. She got her conscious back? Being responsible for killing billions of people because of mensk betraying her probably didn't sit too well with her. Even though she became the queen of blades again, she kept part of her human persona, and the vengeance along with it. Consciences aren't magical things you simply take away and return, unless you turn your game into a space magic farce. Retconning a character's motivations over and over to make them sympathetic while at the same time murderous just cheapens that character, and dismisses the actual gravity of their actions.
Nothing was retconned. Kerrigan pre-xel'naga artifact cleansing was NOT the same as post. The xel'naga artifact cleansed her of Amon's taint, which was corrupting her and her motivations. She didn't even remember what she did as the Queen of Blades, and had to be re-informed of what she was. When she allowed herself to become the queen of blades, she did so without being corrupted by Amon, and kept elements of her humanity.
I swear this has been posted several times before. If you just hate that aspect of the story, you're free to do so, but nothing was retconned as far as her motivations.
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On March 15 2013 23:30 17Sphynx17 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 22:51 KanoCoke wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 15 2013 22:04 17Sphynx17 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Was HOTS really supposed to be a really deep storyline that some people expected more than what it is? Kerrigan was shown to be more "human/emphatic" here so it shows she has lost her full-on Zerg/monster persona. I think that at least counts for something. And the expression of that led to Jim helping here in the last mission. I don't think that is so wrong from a story standpoint.
Personally, I have a few questions though that I wish were actually addressed.
Is the leviathan really that gargantuan compared to a battlecruiser? That sense of scale just detracted from the overall concept I guess. If you go back to the HOTS opening cinematic, how big was the battle cruiser that crashed into the city? Then increase its volume exponentially by, I don't know, 8? It was just too extreme for me already. Too exaggerated.
Why was the ancient one (zerg) so freaking huge while the rest of the primal zerg dwarfed in comparison? Aren't the primal zerg supposed to have originated from the primordial spawning pool which was also the origin of the primal zerg? Who did the ancient one eat then to get so freaking huge? And why was the battle a reskinning of D3's Act 2 boss. I mean why did they see it fit to reuse some of the assets?
I liked the idea of the primal zerg though and that was actually a refreshing concept. I do wonder though if they could be an unlocked alternate race in a custom map maybe so that it adds a bit more variety to the custom games? They appear to have a different "focus" as they weren't re-engineered to be optimal anyway but simply adapt. So I am curious, but they don't seem to have a "hatchery/drone" only a spawning pool. Hehe!
Correct me if I am wrong, but basically, wasn't it just Zeratul that managed to point Kerrigan towards a way to restoring/improving her QoB state? If not for Zeratul, Kerrigan would have simply just massed up Zerg and attacked Korhal right?
I also didn't manage to completely follow how Jim ended up with the gun, I initially thought the gun flew into the cell when the doors were popped by Sarah, but it appears that wasn't the case.
Other things that were wierd in my opinion:
Some of the upgrades didn't make sense to me anymore. I mean, Skeleton King (Zombie) Ultralisk? Really? How is that an "evolutionary trait you are supposed to be able to copy/adapt to"? I feel like they are injecting too much Dota mechanics into some gameplay of the HOTS campaign which I personally didn't find appealing.
Why wasn't the impaler a choice of evolution of the Hydralisk for multiplayer? Is it really that imbalanced to use that as a mechanic? I mean the unit needs to burrow to attack and it isn't a splash attack so why wasn't it an option they chose from to incorporate to the zerg multiplayer units? Is it because spine crawlers can also move?
I was actually surpised the campaign didn't have the inject mechanic for larvae. I actually liked that. Personally, the inject mechanic made zerg too difficult for me. I was used to the SC and SC:BW mechanic of just waiting for larvae to spawn from multiple hatcheries that the inject larvae mechanic crippled me in unit production. I really would have preferred they try and see that as a multiplayer mechanic again, rather than inject. But that is just me.
It seems to be the case. A battlecruiser most definitely would be around the size of a city, as they're supposed to be flagships that can carry interceptor fighter ships, have numerous weapons to kill the Zerg with, and have docking bays for numerous ships to park in, as well as probably a total number of around 2000 staff just maintaining the damn thing. By comparison, the Leviathan is the flagship of the whole Zerg swarm, so the other Zerg fleet's ships are probably smaller in comparison. Like comparing the Hyperion to the average battlecruiser. The Leviathan basically shoots anything and everything into the surface including ultralisks, hatcheries, spawning pools and so on. It should be around that size or it wouldn't be able to do all that. As for the primal zerg, I think he was one of, if not the first to be born off the Primordial spawning pool. It would make sense that millenia of constantly eating, evolving and surviving all those years would make it the ultimate primal zerg being in that planet. The primal zerg do in fact have hives. Those hives are humongous monsters that throw crap at you while you're trying to kill their bases. Sort of like the night elf buildings. Yes, it's all pretty much Zeratul. He gave hints to Raynor but Raynor was too busy and angsty to actually listen to and act according to his advice. But it all worked out in the end eitherway thanks to Zeratul leading Kerrigan herself into the right path. Kerrigan had the gun. She took it from one of the guards she killed to get there. It's the same studio working on the same games. If similarities occur, you can't really blame them. The theme for the Zerg for the whole campaign was necessary evolution in order to overcome their adversaries. The ultras were up against nukes. They were also up against biochemical experimentation. They had to adapt and evolve in order to survive their current plight. As for whether it's a useful evolution or not, Abathur's got his opinions. The impaler is simply a unit version of the spine crawler that does massive damage against armored units, has extremely high range, and is burrowed. Don't all these factors scream "imbalanced" to you? The campaign had quite a few things missing like the one you just mentioned, and corruptors. Turning mutalisks into Broodlords was a pretty funny idea. + Show Spoiler +Well, I would have thought that maybe the Leviathan be around 3 to a max of 4 times the size of a battlecruiser but 8 is a bit overkill given at the rate of how the swarm can reproduce. Sense of scale was just too much I guess plus the fact that Kerrigan kept mentioning that they had other Leviathan's in the sector in the last mission of attacking Korhal. If that scale were true and the quantity of those behemoths was also true, my god, the Battlecruisers were practically shooting peashooters at a thick hide. There is no way they could have damaged a capital ship that size. A nuke would be equivalent to a tank shot I guess if we look at it via scaling.
As for the impaler, well, I would think there weakness would of course be detection and just marines as they are not armoured. I would want it to be explored like the warhound mechanic, and if it was proved to be "broken" then at least they can take it out. Just my opinion though.
As for the broodlord mechanic in the campaign, I always believed that it should have been the natural thing to evolve them from Mutalisks, kind of like how they worked with guardians/defilers. And maybe corrupters could evolve into vipers with attack. I always found it funny how the viper didn't have any attack, that was just weird a design. The infestor made a bit of sense because it had spells that could cause damage, the viper didn't.
One thing I wish would be a possibility they could explore for the zerg is a map based (secondary) evolution for zerg. This would mean the map would contain certain creatures. Of course, not all creatures will be present in one map. So it gives an "optional" upgrade for the zerg that they could choose to get for one of their units by killing that unit. It just makes it more "zerg-y" if that makes sense. That would be really hard to design though but would make map design take a new level I guess. Just a thought but I know it would be very difficult to do, especially with competition settings.
Well, you run into an average Leviathan at the end of the Wings campaign (that big ass Zerg ship that Horner warns you about), and you also get to control one late in the Heart of the Swarm campaign if you chose to use it (good tank unit, crap abilities). Those look like miniature versions of what the Leviathan is supposed to be scale-wise though, despite being at least 1.5-2 times bigger than your average Battlecruiser in-game.
If you have overseers and swarm hosts guarded by hydras or corruptors in there, you'll basically have one of the best siege combos in the game in my opinion. And one that isn't expensive at all considering that those are mostly lair tech units. Would probably be a great mid-way transition towards the obvious broodlord infestor to ultra switch, but a bit too powerful as static defense and artillery support, especially when you're up against Terran or Protoss going for colossi.
They can definitely work something out though. As it is, the Hydra seems pretty boring.
I'm still sad that we only got to see those mech warriors in the early beta and the campaign. Terrible unit visual and idea overall, but I wanted to see it in action even with severe nerfs on HOTS.
Well, in Broodwar I thought a wasp-looking flyer turning into a crab was pretty bogus, so I had a bit of a laugh when I saw those same wasps turn into stingrays. The viper should get an attack though (maybe something similar to the queen attack). If the oracle gets to have an ability to kill 15 workers or so in less than 20 seconds (or something to that effect), then they should at least give vipers some sort of ranged attack.
Yeah those would work if it were Warcraft, but they don't really fit that much game-wise into Starcraft sadly.
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United States108 Posts
On March 15 2013 23:59 Sbrubbles wrote:
According to WoL, wasn't Kerrigan created by the Overmind in order for it to have a warrior devoid of Amon's influence, or something of the like? How was she purged of Amon's taint if the Overmind made her without the taint (as in, that was the whole point of making her in the first place). It might be arguable that the Overmind was unable to create something without Amon's taint, but if so why did it even try?
Also, if Amon's taint is what it takes for Kerrigan to go back to her BW badass self, lets pray that she gets retainted in LotV.
The Overmind didn't make her without the taint. He made a being that was capable of being cleansed of it, as she was not fully zerg and not created by Amon, and cunning and powerful enough to one day rule the swarm. His relief (as described in WoL) over being killed was due to the fact that with her in control of the swarm, if she were to be cleaned, the swarm would be free. His plan was one step closer to being carried out.
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On March 15 2013 23:43 Louuster wrote:
Campaign was pretty fun, story was meh but thats kinda exactly what I was expecting anyway so I cant say that I was surprised or anything. One thing I felt throughout is that by following the kerrigan/raynor arc so much, both WoL and this expansion feel a lot more like RPG campaigns with rts missions thrown in, rather than a "real" rts campaign. Kinda like the different feel you get from Lord of the ring compared to something like game of throne, where the first one focuses on a single party with a common quest who, for the most part, travel together while the latter jumps to different factions from chapter to chapter. This ends up making the world the story takes place in feel a lot larger.
What I ended up disliking the most about the story is the handling of the Narud arc. This guy was built up so much in BW and to have him basically just die to Kerrigan in a DBZ style null zone or whatever its called was dissapointing. He has worked for a while with Kerrigan in the first game, ye makes no mention of it or doesnt act in a way that suggests he has known and worked with her previously, instead shouting generic "you cannot win, you die now"-type things. I can accept that maybe Kerrigan doesnt recognize him due to his changed appearance, but I at least expected something deeper between them than what happened.
The way the Mengsk part of the story has done is also something I had a problem with. In a way, it feels like the entire revolution part of WoL was more or less completely ignored, as at the end of it there are basically riots in the streets and a general anti-mengsk sentiment after the broadcast of the recordings. Mengsk is last seen retreating to his palace from a news conference where he is getting booed by the crowd, yet he returns to beloved emperor of the dominion in Hots with no explanation of what happened in between.
His Dominion forces officially defeated the Queen of Blades and marked the victory by building a fortress in that husk of a planet. With a bit more propaganda and saying stuff like "Look! I defeated the enemy of the human race! I also killed the leader of this farce of a rebellion!" with his charming dictator voice, I'm sure the mindless public would even forget that those recordings existed.
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On March 16 2013 00:02 Lauriel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 23:59 Sbrubbles wrote:
According to WoL, wasn't Kerrigan created by the Overmind in order for it to have a warrior devoid of Amon's influence, or something of the like? How was she purged of Amon's taint if the Overmind made her without the taint (as in, that was the whole point of making her in the first place). It might be arguable that the Overmind was unable to create something without Amon's taint, but if so why did it even try?
Also, if Amon's taint is what it takes for Kerrigan to go back to her BW badass self, lets pray that she gets retainted in LotV.
The Overmind didn't make her without the taint. He made a being that was capable of being cleansed of it, as she was not fully zerg and not created by Amon. His relief (as described in WoL) over being killed was due to the fact that with her in control of the swarm, if she were to be cleaned, the swarm would be free. His plan was one step closer to being carried out.
This doesn't make such sense (even without bringing BW into the picture  ). The Overmind planning/foreseeing for Kerrigan to be cleansed through the Zelnaga artifact isn't logical if we assume (by Narud's speech) that Kerrigan's energy was precisely used to raise Amon. How could the Overmind be okay with a plan (through Kerrigan, outside of Amon's influence) that ends up raising Amon?
In other words, if the Overmind created Kerrigan in order for her to be cleansed and thus lead a free swarm, it also means that the Overmind accepted that her energy, through cleansing, would also raise Amon. This doesn't sit well with me.
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People would have most likely complained no matter what happened. I thought it was a pretty good story, but I didn't mind WoL either. I think it's kinda brilliant how the different stages of Kerrigan affect her and Raynors relationsship, torn between love and hate during different times, how Raynor realizes that QoB/Primal QoB are not the same etc. The ending would be bad if Raynor once again used the Xel'naga artifact and got Kerrigan back to normal, but now they realize that they love eachother but can't be together, and have to go different paths. I got a tear in my eye as the beautiful endingscene where Kerrigan slowly flys away from Raynor happened.
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Also, it was unacceptable that Kerrigan was the one to kill Narud. Stukov should have been the one to do it (for poetic justice's sake).
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EPT
