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On March 09 2013 16:37 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 16:34 Mohdoo wrote:
The problem is definitely the coach. Players going so far as to complain shows a lot of problems. It takes a lot to actually complain on Twitter about internal affairs. Regardless if it is the coach's fault or not, that kinda atmosphere has to change, which means a new coach. How about changing the entire philosophy of the frigging team? Sorry, but you guys are really looking for a scapegoat. The EG marketing machine will press forward.
Yes, because clearly the marketing in the Korean EG house is getting out of control. Look at all that time spent on PR videos, it adds up to hours...okay, maybe minutes...seconds?
Okay, the point is, even if EG hasn't been making any PR videos in Korea, even zero videos is too much.
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150:100 is 0,6 which is same as 3:2 which is also 0.6
The actual numbers often are irrelevant if we just want to look at how succesful player is. Win/loss ratio for an example 3,0 is completely sufficient for that. Of course we would not want to entirely forget the actual numbers because it would be just silly to call someone super good with w/l ratio of 3,0 if he has just 3 games played where he won all three.
In many FPS-games there is dedicated k/d ratio section in the stats screen which is always a decimal.
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On March 09 2013 16:48 Mongolbonjwa wrote:
150:100 is 0,6 which is same as 3:2 which is also 0.6
Yeap it is, that is why I edited it out.
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On March 09 2013 16:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 16:37 StarStruck wrote:On March 09 2013 16:34 Mohdoo wrote:
The problem is definitely the coach. Players going so far as to complain shows a lot of problems. It takes a lot to actually complain on Twitter about internal affairs. Regardless if it is the coach's fault or not, that kinda atmosphere has to change, which means a new coach. How about changing the entire philosophy of the frigging team? Sorry, but you guys are really looking for a scapegoat. The EG marketing machine will press forward. Yes, because clearly the marketing in the Korean EG house is getting out of control. Look at all that time spent on PR videos, it adds up to hours...okay, maybe minutes...seconds? Okay, the point is, even if EG hasn't been making any PR videos in Korea, even zero videos is too much.
It's not just videos /facepalm. For example live streaming isn't precision practice. #Wakeup.
Acting like a bunch of prima donnas doesn't help too - that's with regards to the complaining. You think this applies to only EG? Look at what happened when the MoW tried to introduce players to coaches. They didn't want to listen and wanted to stream/play their own way. Do you see where I'm going with this?
Anyway, as I already said. When you look at each individual players performance. They're right around where I would have them. The only difference is the team win column where I would have them fighting for the WC.
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On March 09 2013 16:52 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 16:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 09 2013 16:37 StarStruck wrote:On March 09 2013 16:34 Mohdoo wrote:
The problem is definitely the coach. Players going so far as to complain shows a lot of problems. It takes a lot to actually complain on Twitter about internal affairs. Regardless if it is the coach's fault or not, that kinda atmosphere has to change, which means a new coach. How about changing the entire philosophy of the frigging team? Sorry, but you guys are really looking for a scapegoat. The EG marketing machine will press forward. Yes, because clearly the marketing in the Korean EG house is getting out of control. Look at all that time spent on PR videos, it adds up to hours...okay, maybe minutes...seconds? Okay, the point is, even if EG hasn't been making any PR videos in Korea, even zero videos is too much. It's not just videos /facepalm. #Wakeup. Acting like a bunch of prima donnas doesn't help too. You think this applies to only EG? Look at what happened when the MoW tried to introduce players to coaches. They didn't want to listen and wanted to stream/play their own way. Do you see where I'm going with this? Anyway, as I already said. When you look at each individual players performance. They're right around where I would have them. The only difference is the team win column where I would have them fighting for the WC.
So you seriously believe that the majority of players in the Korean house have issues listening to coaches?
You think Puma and Jaedong, two players who were on Kespa teams, don't like coaches?
You think JYP and Revival who were on TSL under Coach Lee can't handle someone advising them?
How about the oGs boys HerO and Zenio? How about Taeja?
You might have a point when it comes to HuK and Stephano. But even that's based on a lot of assumptions.
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The thing is, that EG team does not have exactly the top caliber players to train with.
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On March 09 2013 16:29 StarStruck wrote:Those player stats are right where I would have them except a few more W's against the other teams. Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 16:15 Daswollvieh wrote:
Coaches gonna get fired for inability to create and maintain a productive training atmosphere and team spirit. Hold the phone there bucko. I wouldn't blame Hwanni or Park for whatever expectations you might have had. Unfortunately to change the philosophy you sort of have to reflect back on what it is that the essence of the team stands for. Marketing their players and live streaming. You can only do so much with what's given to you and don't complain about the line-up. Enough excuses.
What we definitely know is that most players are underperforming. They have been a lot better under a different environment - whether they are truly compatible or not - and its the coaches job to provide this environment. Sure the players also contribute, but it´s mainly the coaches´ job. So it absolutely makes sense to criticize them, because they are biggest "new" factor for the teams.
From an outside perspective, i.e. from interviews, I believe the problem lies in the coaches´ lax attitude. I don´t get the impression of professionality and the necessary professional relationship among staff and players. It´s like parents who try to be their childrens´ friends, wonder why they go apeshit and then start screaming. Like it or not, SC players are young adults at best from a maturity stand-point. They are away from home in an adolescent environment and thus need adults as role-models and authorities, who give a sense of security by setting rules to relate to, because these natural developments are not yet completed. What I am seeing (coming from a sports and educational background) is coaches, who try and have a fun time and thereby unsettle their youthful players, who need responsible and reliable adults in their environment. I assume, this is even more true for Koreans, because the relationship to elders is much stricter there.
Of course we have not been there and I´m merely speaking about my impressions. But the Stephano-interview (thank God for the fearless Frechman) was, frankly, quite shocking and confirming grave concerns.
EDIT
StarStruck wrote:
Acting like a bunch of prima donnas doesn't help too - that's with regards to the complaining. You think this applies to only EG? Look at what happened when the MoW tried to introduce players to coaches. They didn't want to listen and wanted to stream/play their own way. Do you see where I'm going with this?
That´s what you get when you leave adolescents without adult guidance. You get the friggin lord of the flies. It´s not right to assume 20 year old gamers are fully matured grown-ups who can function in a group by themselves.
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EGTL players have not really played against those players that are in the proleague so past results cannot be compared.
20 year old people are hardly teenagers anymore btw
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demuslim playing HOTS sure, but honestly I feel zerg is atm a little weak for HOTS to send out over a P/T.
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On March 09 2013 17:01 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 16:52 StarStruck wrote:On March 09 2013 16:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On March 09 2013 16:37 StarStruck wrote:On March 09 2013 16:34 Mohdoo wrote:
The problem is definitely the coach. Players going so far as to complain shows a lot of problems. It takes a lot to actually complain on Twitter about internal affairs. Regardless if it is the coach's fault or not, that kinda atmosphere has to change, which means a new coach. How about changing the entire philosophy of the frigging team? Sorry, but you guys are really looking for a scapegoat. The EG marketing machine will press forward. Yes, because clearly the marketing in the Korean EG house is getting out of control. Look at all that time spent on PR videos, it adds up to hours...okay, maybe minutes...seconds? Okay, the point is, even if EG hasn't been making any PR videos in Korea, even zero videos is too much. It's not just videos /facepalm. #Wakeup. Acting like a bunch of prima donnas doesn't help too. You think this applies to only EG? Look at what happened when the MoW tried to introduce players to coaches. They didn't want to listen and wanted to stream/play their own way. Do you see where I'm going with this? Anyway, as I already said. When you look at each individual players performance. They're right around where I would have them. The only difference is the team win column where I would have them fighting for the WC. So you seriously believe that the majority of players in the Korean house have issues listening to coaches? You think Puma and Jaedong, two players who were on Kespa teams, don't like coaches? You think JYP and Revival who were on TSL under Coach Lee can't handle someone advising them? How about the oGs boys HerO and Zenio? How about Taeja? You might have a point when it comes to HuK and Stephano. But even that's based on a lot of assumptions.
Did they or did they not complain? You tell me. I look at player's on an individual basis. For instance, I'd say Stephano has lived up to my expectations of him considering he's playing just over 50-50 Starcraft. Didn't I have a bet with a guy where I said this? Yeah I did. Forget the chaps name. In either case, I called one to two games above 50-50. The guy would be a regular on any Pro League team and that's a good thing.
Player's work at their own time & pace. There's only so much a coach can do for them and then it comes down to execution. Anyway, you guys are looking in the wrong places.
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On March 09 2013 17:11 Daswollvieh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 16:29 StarStruck wrote:Those player stats are right where I would have them except a few more W's against the other teams. On March 09 2013 16:15 Daswollvieh wrote:
Coaches gonna get fired for inability to create and maintain a productive training atmosphere and team spirit. Hold the phone there bucko. I wouldn't blame Hwanni or Park for whatever expectations you might have had. Unfortunately to change the philosophy you sort of have to reflect back on what it is that the essence of the team stands for. Marketing their players and live streaming. You can only do so much with what's given to you and don't complain about the line-up. Enough excuses. What we definitely know is that most players are underperforming. They have been a lot better under a different environment - whether they are truly compatible or not - and its the coaches job to provide this environment. Sure the players also contribute, but it´s mainly the coaches´ job. So it absolutely makes sense to criticize them, because they are biggest "new" factor for the teams. From an outside perspective, i.e. from interviews, I believe the problem lies in the coaches´ lax attitude. I don´t get the impression of professionality and the necessary professional relationship among staff and players. It´s like parents who try to be their childrens´ friends, wonder why they go apeshit and then start screaming. Like it or not, SC players are young adults at best from a maturity stand-point. They are away from home in an adolescent environment and thus need adults as role-models and authorities, who give a sense of security by setting rules to relate to, because these natural developments are not yet completed. What I am seeing (coming from a sports and educational background) is coaches, who try and have a fun time and thereby unsettle their youthful players, who need responsible and reliable adults in their environment. I assume, this is even more true for Koreans, because the relationship to elders is much stricter there. Of course we have not been there and I´m merely speaking about my impressions. But the Stephano-interview (thank God for the fearless Frechman) was, frankly, quite shocking and confirming grave concerns. EDIT Show nested quote +StarStruck wrote:
Acting like a bunch of prima donnas doesn't help too - that's with regards to the complaining. You think this applies to only EG? Look at what happened when the MoW tried to introduce players to coaches. They didn't want to listen and wanted to stream/play their own way. Do you see where I'm going with this? That´s what you get when you leave adolescents without adult guidance. You get the friggin lord of the flies. It´s not right to assume 20 year old gamers are fully matured grown-ups who can function in a group by themselves.
You are rude an your assumptions are hilarious
They aren't 12 yrs old childs that suffered bullying and need security. They aren't adolescents, they don't need adult guidance, they are adults. They need a coach who must give them advices so they can become better at sc2, not your social bullshit.
If the coach stress them, adds some useless pressure, wakes them up for nothing, yells, doesn't have a good plan for PL, can't give good advices on builds etc... He needs to change that's all. Even if the attitude of the coach seem bad, i don't think it's the biggest part of the problem. I think it might be the ambiance, everyone must be down, perhaps they don't rly share or help one another. Also 4 of them were in a slump (jyp, huk, zenio, puma) even before PL so maybe this bad mentality (assuming it exists) affected the others and now everyone is in slump.
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I pray better mentality from Idra then that he had at the MLG quali vs Minigun. I doubt the foreigners are the key though, EG-TL needs a fit Taeja and a Puma finding his form again.
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I don't think EGTL's the problem. Most non-Kespa Korean teams wouldn't have done much better. The Kespa players, on average, have more talent, practice more, and practice more efficiently.
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On March 09 2013 17:19 oogieogie wrote:
demuslim playing HOTS sure, but honestly I feel zerg is atm a little weak for HOTS to send out over a P/T.
but 2 zergs did nearly/all kill in GSTL.
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I would disagree that JYP is perfoming below expectation. He is the only one on expectation (maybe together with Stephano of whom we need to see more games).
Nobody expected him to carry EGTL, he is not one of the star players. Still he has an even record of 10-10 now. (if the actual star players would have winning records, EGTL would be crushing)
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IdrA going to korea? I really hope it happens 
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On March 09 2013 15:36 Kaitokid wrote:
am I the only one who thinks EGTL actually performs better than expected? I think they are doing pretty damn good considering they have to play vs the best players.
I sort of agree. Hero and Taeja are the only real heavy hitters on the team.
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EPT
