EPTThe turtle to 3 bases and 200 supply metagame is dead and buried.
Thanks for the fish.
Situation Report: HoTS Balance - Page 36
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Evangelist
1246 Posts
The turtle to 3 bases and 200 supply metagame is dead and buried. Thanks for the fish. | ||
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Osiccor
Canada128 Posts
Also it seems that the risk and reward for the medivac drop are too high. Terran can load up 2 medivac and drop in 2 places. It can totally cripple the zerg economy if the zerg is 2 seconds late reacting to the drop, while the absolute worst that the terran will lose is 2 medivac full of units which is not game ending most of the time at around mid game. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11109 Posts
EG-TL Coach Park wrote: Q: The 4th round of Proleague isn’t far off, what are your thoughts on Heart of the Swarm? A: I haven’t been able to play a lot. It’s my first time after the closed beta. I have discussed with the players and Terran seems to be very strong. That is why I am worried, as there are too few Terrans on the team. But I do have an issue with the Ignite Thrusters (laughs). I used to think it would be fun to put boosters on Brood War Dropships but this is real. But the boosters in HotS are a little different than what I imagined. They should use energy, or become more vulnerable when using them, something like that. There has to be a risk, but there are none, so it’s no fun when players can infinitely use them. To make the game more enjoyable, there has to be some escape to that, but there are none, which is disappointing. Maybe if there was something like Scourge, but as of now it’s a bit lacking. They can definitely make it more exciting. Other than that, it’s a very fun game. It’s better than ‘Wings of Liberty.” But looking at player’s responses, I think they are correct in calling it “Terrancraft.” (laughs) Source Just incase people think that commenting on the balance of medivac boost is limited to randoms on the forum (ignoring twitter). | ||
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dacimvrl
Vatican City State582 Posts
On March 20 2013 07:28 Sabu113 wrote: Source Just incase people think that commenting on the balance of medivac boost is limited to randoms on the forum (ignoring twitter). I would honestly not mind an energy cost associated with it at all, 20, 25 energy even. In a way, it makes healing after doing a drop much more limited, and may prevent the medivac from a quick escape if there isn't enough energy after the engagement(stimming, taking damage..etc.). In another sense, it'd be kind of a buff vs HTs, which isn't too bad either. | ||
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Kiaph
112 Posts
17 Zergs with 390 + points 13 Terran with 390 + points 9 Protoss with 390 + points | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10567 Posts
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Iron_
United States389 Posts
As for toss it is the same thing. Drops vs toss were laughable once a templar zapped both medivacs and a round of warpins come knocking. With faster medivacs, you need to react faster with your templars and warpins, and mostly likely you need to build a couple of cannons in important places. Toss are conditioned to be able to react after the medivacs are already starting to drop without any cannon help, now they will need to come to grips with the fact that they need to react faster, or make some cannons to buy themselves time. I see Toss's complaining about not being able to leave your base.... well what changed? We can get into your base 2 seconds faster and the whole game is turned on it's ear? No. It's conditioning that it should be easy. Well it's not easy anymore, break it down. Why is it that we see so few Terrans complaining about the boost as opposed to other races? It's just as effective vs Terran right? Why are people not complaining about how they can't mech up with a couple turrets anymore? Conditioning. Terran is currently conditioned for everything to be hard, so dealing with things that are hard to deal with is perfectly normal. When you think about it, breaking the conditioning that 2 of the races sit back, get nasty army then come kill Terran is actually a good thing. Make some super fast mutalisks, make a couple of cannons, and accelerate your growth. Or wait a month for them to give queens and stalkers plus 20 damage to medivacs, your choice. | ||
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Absentia
United Kingdom973 Posts
Personally, I've been playing random at mid masters since Hots release and I'm having a blast with all the races. I can't really say, based on my experience, that speed medivacs seem too powerful at the level i'm playing at. The things I've found most difficult to deal with so far are: 1) High muta counts in PvZ (not sure how much of a problem this still was by the end of WoL) 2) Proxy stargate/oracles in TvP 3) Widow mines in ZvT I don't particularly think any of these are imbalanced: they're just strategies that you have to be extra careful in dealing with. Anecdotal information of course but it's quite interesting seeing how my random playing experience lines up with the primary problems players of particular races are having. | ||
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AceOfCakez
United States72 Posts
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
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CingCoCo
Germany20 Posts
The additions to Terran in HOTS are pretty much straight up - maybe besides the Hellbat. Its not too tough to figure out how to use a Widowmine in your army composition or how to use afterburners for that instance. The new P and Z units are not like that. Besides the obvious Ultra buff and the Oracle cheeses the new units have just been used on a very situational basis (e.g. Viper vs Mech in TvZ). I believe that eventually - especially the Viper - will have a huge impact against nearly all opposing compositions and very likely the Mutalisks will have a return, at least as a transitional unit during midgame to harass and counter the afterburners. Basically what happened at MLG, especially in TvZ, was the following: Terrans used multiprong drop harass all the time and Zerg didnt always go Muta or early aggression. Whenever Zerg did (hello Life!) Zerg did actually have a very decent chance of winning and the game itself didnt appear imbalanced. Those drops are quite a risk for terrans. If they get intercepted in early and mid game it will be a huge blow to armysize and they will be vulnerable to counters on most maps or can be forced to stay on 2 bases for quite a while which obviously is a huge issue in this match up. Tldr: Too early to tell if the game is balanced. Metagame needs to adjust. Terran in HOTS like Terran in WOL: Easy to figure out hard to handle. Unlike P and Z (not saying they are easy to handle but it takes for sure longer to figure out unit synergys). | ||
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AngryMag
Germany1040 Posts
Vipers look promising, too and the infestor isn't so dominant anymore, gives us variety in Z games. Overall it looks definately better than the end of WoL, I like it. Please,Please don't go back to the WoL patch mode of "fixing" everything after some problems. Challenges in the game will force the players to progress their skills. | ||
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DyEnasTy
United States3720 Posts
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Terrasmith
47 Posts
I'm very happy to see everyone in the last few pages take a more levelheaded view of things. Now if only Blizzard will keep their position and not patch for a couple of months... | ||
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TheGreenMachine
United States730 Posts
On March 20 2013 10:52 Terrasmith wrote: Wouldn't running two to three lings or zealots ahead of your main army deal with defensive widow mines almost automatically? They detonate on one or two units, you see where they are, you have 45 seconds to kill them. I've seen Terrans do that with stimmed marines, but no other race. Besides, in zvt widow mines create the exact same reaction as a baneling land mine does for Terran. Once you know they're out, you should become very nervous about clumping units. And mines vs mutas is not hard to deal with; it takes multiple shots to kill a muta, so a Zerg player should have time to run the mutas away to heal easily. From what I can tell, widow mines can be very strong, but they aren't impossible to deal with. I'm very happy to see everyone in the last few pages take a more levelheaded view of things. Now if only Blizzard will keep their position and not patch for a couple of months... Mines alone are easy to set off with just a few units, but mines with an army to back it up (10,000x more common) are impossible to send a few units to absorb mine shots. Those lings will just die instantly to marine fire before setting off any mines. So far a few ways of dealing with it ive seen is vs low # of mines, mutas or banelings can 1 shot them before the mines fire. Banelings especially useful vs clumped mines if your opponent gets lazy. Overall I feel bio-mine is a very strong tvz build ^^ | ||
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AngryMag
Germany1040 Posts
On March 20 2013 10:52 Terrasmith wrote: Wouldn't running two to three lings or zealots ahead of your main army deal with defensive widow mines almost automatically? They detonate on one or two units, you see where they are, you have 45 seconds to kill them. I've seen Terrans do that with stimmed marines, but no other race. Besides, in zvt widow mines create the exact same reaction as a baneling land mine does for Terran. Once you know they're out, you should become very nervous about clumping units. And mines vs mutas is not hard to deal with; it takes multiple shots to kill a muta, so a Zerg player should have time to run the mutas away to heal easily. From what I can tell, widow mines can be very strong, but they aren't impossible to deal with. I'm very happy to see everyone in the last few pages take a more levelheaded view of things. Now if only Blizzard will keep their position and not patch for a couple of months... not really automatically. zealots are slower than the rest of your army and have the tendency to clump up. You have to work a bit to prevent that, you can also be flanked by the mines,u but these situations can be prevented with micro. I agree with you Blizzard shall not intervene and give the players a chance to cope with new situations. Of course microing zealots infront and on the side ofy your army isn't an immidiate eye catcher but combined with other stuff showing up in the future the skill levels in all the races will rise and this is a good thing. I am bad but I don't wan't immidiate fixes for every minor problem, I still want to be challenged and work for my wins. | ||
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Terrasmith
47 Posts
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Terrasmith
47 Posts
I do wish the medivac cooldown started after the ability finished. As is it's a 12 second cooldown, not 20 seconds. The full 20 seconds would make boosting in then boosting out less easy and increase the risk of the medivac getting sniped without fully shutting the drops down. I think that making the medivac boost require energy is a terrible idea. A cooldown AND an energy requirement would make the boosters the most costly spell in the game, requirement wise. Every other spell is energy or cooldown, not both. But if you substitute the energy for the cooldown, then drops are more effective, not less. Also, one of the main points of the spell was to allow medivacs to escape after battles, since in WoL they often lagged behind the army and got shot down. If the spell requires energy, it's useless after a battle, because every medivac will have been using its energy to heal the army. I honestly think the drops will become much more manageable with time, though. If they're still a problem 2-3 months from now, then increasing the cooldown would be a good idea. | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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